Creecher Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) I always wondered why Harmony never intervened during Alloy of Law. There is one possibility, though, and bear with me as I go through the evidence. First, this may not be completely accurate, but this is, as far as I know, the chronology of the Cosmere. -Dragonsteel (unpublished) -White Sand (unpublished) -Elantris and The Emperor's Soul -First Mistborn Trilogy -Stormlight Archive (incomplete) -Second Mistborn Trilogy (incomplete) How do I know the first Mistborn trilogy is before the Stormlight Archive, and the Stormlight Archive is before the Second? Because of Captain Demoux. Observe the Purelake interlude in The Way of Kings; he, Galladon and an unnamed third character are looking for Hoid on Roshar. This is clearly after the first Mistborn trilogy, since Captain Demoux played a large role in it. Unless Demoux somehow became immortal, it can be concluded that the Stormlight Archive isn't much further on than the first Mistborn trilogy. This gives a clear period of time during which we know Odium was active, and Harmony was still a relatively young deity, possibly not yet fully in control of his abilities; who is to say he didn't visit Scadrial and Splinter Harmony between the trilogies? We know Harmony is stronger than Odium due to him holding two shards, but Odium has had far longer to learn how to use his shard. Edited January 29, 2015 by TenzinKendrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Harmony DOES intervene in Alloy of Law, he talks to Wax through his earring several times and in the climax is the one who makes Wax's weapon chest appear out of nowhere so he can defeat Miles. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creecher Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Harmony DOES intervene in Alloy of Law, he talks to Wax through his earring several times and in the climax is the one who makes Wax's weapon chest appear out of nowhere so he can defeat Miles. My mistake; I assumed him talking to Wax could have been a splinter of him, and made the mistake of lending my copy of Alloy of Law to someone else when I was around two thirds through. I should have researched it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Yeah, we actually have WoB that Harmony is technically the strongest thing in the Cosmere, simply for the fact that he holds Two Shards. But since the two Intents he holds are diametrically opposed (Ruin + Preservation), he is very limited in what he can actually do, lest he upset the 'balance'.And also, Odium is scared of Harmony and the power he holds. (Which could be incentive enough for him to try and shatter/kill him, eventually) Edited January 29, 2015 by Gamma Fiend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Odium has been to neither Scadrial nor Nalthis, per WoB. FLETCHERSHAIRHas he been on Scadrial or Nalthis? BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)No, but he is aware of their existence. As for your timeline guesses, from the most recent WoB that I'm aware of Way of Kings now takes place in between HoA and Alloy, slightly before Alloy but at one point it was several hundred years after Alloy so I think it's safe to say Demoux has access to some form of either agelessness or else time dilation like Hoid does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 It's interesting how that quote conflicts with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 It's interesting how that quote conflicts with this one. The one I quoted was from a Firefight signing this year so I'd go with that one for now since it's more recent. It could be that Brandon's just being coy in that he's 'been active' on Scadrial through some obscure means like sending an agent to investigate it but not actually been himself or something, or he might have just changed plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I suppose so. It's still disconcerting. I HATE it when WoBs conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I suppose so. It's still disconcerting. I HATE it when WoBs conflict. It's going to start happening...a lot. Any answers he has given about something not having happened yet is capable of being contradicted as time in the Cosmere passes. For example, let us say that Odium does go to Scadrial for the end of the Wax and Wayne trilogy, as it seems to be occuring alongside the Stormlight Archive. At that point, the WoB Voidus provided would be completely wrong. As Brandon publishes more, and makes various events canon, that were not so prior, he will very easily contradict WoB. Due to this, we should start taking the dates of the WoBs into account, and the sooner the better. If we get into the practice now, we'll have developed the good habit for when it is desperately needed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxingwass Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I seem to remember another WoB out there about Odium being not being about to leave the Roshar system because he was too "Invested" and leaving would weaken him or something... I need a WoB genie or something, i can never seem to find them when I look for them...can anybody confrim this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Given that we now know that Odium can 'make it possible' for people to use magic that draws on him on other planets, has he done this anywhere besides Roshar? BRANDON SANDERSON Odium has been active on all other planets, including several we haven't seen yet. KOGIOPSISThis one I nearly did get RAFO'd, and the answer is basically a non-answer. Panda, he can be "active" on a planet without physically being there. (see:Roshar) The WoBs don't contradict at all. Also, regarding WoBs, paraphrased ones essentially mean you are reading someone's recollected interpretation of what he said, so I personally consider them somewhat less reliable than verbatim ones. The original quote was "has he been on" which implies physicality and is a lot more direct than him simply being "active." I do agree that dates are going to become important, and as I've said elsewhere, Theoryland is eventually going to need a separation/overhaul to sort out WoT, or they need to be compiled elsewhere, because the amount of info we're going to wind up with is only going to grow and it's already confusing as heck, especially for more obscure topics. Especially since there are several floating around NOT on Theoryland. I'm not sure about a WoB, but there is an epigraph in WoR that reads: Rayse is captive. He cannot leave the system he now inhabits. His destructive potential is, therefore, inhibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Thanks Shlee. Should have thought of that epigraph. I'm getting to used to finding everything on 17s or Theoryland. Novels are automatically canon, so a WoB shouldn't be needed on that one. On the other hand, that epigraph could have yet another non-omniscient flawed-viewpoint assumption... Edited January 29, 2015 by inexorablePanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I guess our Brandon shard can't see perfectly into the future, then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 For what it's worth, I'm also pretty positive I've read the WoB that says that Odium has too much invested in the Roshar system to easily withdraw, but I can't find it either I'm starting to think a WoB database should be in the works...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) What?! Blasphemy! Of course he can, but unfortunately, he doesn't have a wiki that he brings to signings, and some answers are on the fly, so it's understandable that we sometimes get conflicts. Edit: ninja'd Edit 2: Shlee, have you seen RShara's compilation? Try word-searching that. It has some stuff that Theoryland doesn't. Edited January 29, 2015 by inexorablePanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'm starting to think a WoB database should be in the works...... There already is one, Theoryland. A link to which can be found by hovering over the Links tab above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Thank you both I am however, quite well aware of both of those things, and have been lurking around several years longer than I've been posting. My point isn't to criticize, just observations. There is stuff missing from both places. It can be difficult to navigate parts of theoryland with all the stuff in there that's repeated interviews, Robert Jordan info, and a variety of other issues. It's definitely workable and much, much, better than nothing. But it's not ideal either. The forum search here can be aggravating, as many can attest to. All I'm saying is that it would be nice to have a dedicated area for nothing but cosmere-related WoB, canon information. I also realize that this is in theory what the wiki is supposed to be, but it's difficult to search as well. If Theoryland had a branch that was solely canon information on the cosmere or even just brandon's books and everything actually managed to get uploaded there, that'd be awesome. And I know there are people working on keeping it updated (and very hard too). It's just not ideal in my mind, especially looking long-term, when we're 7 or 8 books into stormlight with another handful of cosmere books and stories scattered around and the amount of info gets even more onerous than it already is. FWIW, I do database management, that's probably why it bugs me so....as much personal pet peeve as anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'd actually be curious how far Odium can send his influence. Assuming of course that he is 'active' on Roshar while being on Braize. Maybe he is limited in influence to the system as per the Letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Number four on this list says that Odium is active on Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Number four on this list says that Odium is active on Roshar. I am aware of that, but thank you for the link. Intent for intent. I'm mainly throwing thoughts here. To expand and clarify. I meant it in the sense of whether Odium is merely 'active' on Roshar or something more. I believe he is partially invested, so my thoughts would be that he has a current and relatively limited presence on, at present, just Roshar and Braize. That said, assuming no contradiction in WoB and that Odium has been 'active' on all the worlds, what exact level of activity might that be? For instance, when we see Sadeas and Lin is that Odium merely being 'active' or is it something more? Something he can only do in Roshar.Or could he extend his reach? The Letter lends me to believe he could not. Further I'd expect there must be some limit on that particular influence. Like, we know he's been on Sel because that is quite evident. I'd say that was some level of past activity accounted for. But, say, Nalthis or Scadrial? They still have the shards so he obviously wasn't so overt, and indeed if he's not been there personally. . . shardically? Then it must be influence or intermediary but what might that be? Yeah. Edited January 30, 2015 by Savanorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Has anyone ever asked if it's possible to be "invested" as opposed to "active" on multiple planets/planetary systems at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) We know that Odium left "bits" of his power on Sel. Edited February 1, 2015 by Snoopy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 We know that Odium left "bits" of his power on Scadrial. That would be pretty hard to do since he has never /been/ to Scadrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Thanks, Weiry. I meant Sel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Thanks, Weiry. I meant Sel. That's also not true, Odium did not leave any of his power behind on Sel: sufficientlyadvanced It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why? Brandon Sanderson It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel. Phantine Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though. Brandon Sanderson Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless... (source) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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