Jump to content

Wave like magic


Cones For Eyes

Recommended Posts

I was rereading Elantris whne I came across this interesting little line in chapter 28 when Raoden is learning about the Dor.

However, if even one line was of the wrong proportion , the Dor would be unable to enter - like a square trying to force it's way through a round hole. Some theorists described the process using unfamiliar words like "frequency" and "pulse length"

This reminds me a lot of the allomantic pulses that seekers feel in mistborn. I'm not really sure what the significance of this is but I feel it can't be accidental that both are described as pulse like. Are any other magic systems described with pulse/wave like properties?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been trained in the deadly arts of ninja-ing in the very monastries of Fjordell!

But yeah, complete coincidence that I happened to get to that chapter just as you mentioned wavey magic stuff in the mistborn thread.

It is interesting though. Will more magic systems have a wave like component? Is it a fundamental part of the Cosmere that magic systems can display this kind of behaviour? Maybe it's only to do with the way the magic manifests on these particular shardworlds?

So many questions

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well on the wave-particle duality thing I said in the other thread, SA has some almost references to the observer effect with spren so there may be some underlying science similar to quantum mechanics. But that's all just speculation (baseless speculation, the best kind ;))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's an idea, could Highstorms be gravitationally caused? Roshar has multiple moons I think so it wouldn't be as regular as tides on earth.

Yea, how does water work on Roshar? More awesome waves? Highstorms? Trollface in the waters? Who knows?

On a side note, I pulse length and frequency are what Seekers use to identify what metal somebody is burning, so they're either the byproduct or the cause of the metal burning. It could be that the Aons are setting the legth of the pulses and the frequency in order to determine the effect.

/insanity

Baseless speculation FTW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, if it was just normal water and normal moons, the tides wouldn't be as regular as Voidus has said. You would get times when the tides are particularly strong though when the moons are aligned but something tells me there's more than just physics going on with those high storms...

Also, we should start a crew of baseless speculators :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The clan of baseless speculators is now definitely going in my sig :P I agree that their must be at least some Shardic influence in Highstorms, I'm just wondering if the multiple moons cause the irregularity of the actual storm part :P Might explain the Weeping = Lunar allignment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really really great catch Cones For Eyes. The pulse length and frequency sound so similar to Allomantic pulses that I find it hard to believe that it's a coincidence. This actually provides some of the best evidence I've seen so far that a Seeker might be able to Seek other Investitures aside from the Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Still, are we sure bronzebeats are a byproduct of Allomancy? What if they cause it...?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. From what I'm reading, it sounds like you're saying bronzepulses cause Allomancy? Do you perhaps mean that bronzepulses assign different beats to different powers? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you.

Also, we should start a crew of baseless speculators :lol:

Psh, we've already got one of those. We call it 17th Shard :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. From what I'm reading, it sounds like you're saying bronzepulses cause Allomancy? Do you perhaps mean that bronzepulses assign different beats to different powers? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you.

If Aons set down a pulse-length and a frequency that is then followed to produce an effect, it is possible that when you burn a metal, the metal type sets the above factors, creating a bronzebeat which in turn lets the allomantic power flow through.

Psh, we've already got one of those. We call it 17th Shard :P

Point. As in you have a point. Not that the shard in question is pointy, though that is also a possibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you mean that the pulse and wave length would be the unifying magic over all the cosmere?

Ie: The pulse and frequency create the effect no the actual burning of the metal (Which creates the pulse)

Well I like it :D We'll have to see how we can apply it to WB but it seems so far like you need a method of detection (Bronze) or scholars who really know what they're talking about. Maybe in the next WB novel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hasn't Brandon hinted that magic was around before the Shards? What if the pulses are some link back to those days and how things worked.

But yes, I am implying that the beats are the unifying thing for cosmere magic. Bronze simply makes it easier to detect the wavelengths that pull the magic through.Possibly the reason you can't hear Feruchemy as well is because Bronze has been corroded to the point that it now focuses on Allomancy, and you'd need to duralumin burn it to get past the corrosion (Vin could hear exactly what Breeze's soothing was doing. She was probably translating the bronzebeats into their corresponidng emotions. If she'd done it near Sazed while he was storing, it's possible she'd hear something related as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I think that these pulses and wavelengths could be something intrinsic to Investitures, I think it's going a little to far to call them some sort of magic system. I think that the pulses are related to the spiritual energy that is being utilized here, and not some sort of magic system. The pulses may show exactly how this spiritual energy is being constrained.

I also really don't think that Seeking existed as a magic system independent of Allomancy before the Shattering. Why would it be incorporated into a new system that it predated and existed without? It seems odd to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what Brandon has said about Allomantic pulses.

QARLIN

Why did Ruin give off Allomantic Pulses? Because Preservation did and they're two sides of the same coin? Allomancy is of Preservation, so I figured that's why he did...

BRANDON SANDERSON

Manifestation of the awesome power he held, mixed with Vin's increased ability to sense these things. Allomantic pulses are like a ripple of sound in the fabric of creation itself—the power of creation being used, creating a drum beat to those attuned to it. Ruin created a similar beat when his consciousness was near.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oooh, I like this quote. Ripples in the fabric of creation itself? I'm curious as to what this fabric of creation is. Does that sound like these ripples are, on some level, occuring on all three rhelms?

And we also run into the chicken or the egg problem. Are the ripples causing the allomancy or caused by the allomancy.

Either way, it seems sensible to extrapolate that the Dor is caused by/causing a similar rippling in the fabric of creation. Whatever that is...

Edited by Cones For Eyes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well in WB the magic system is breath. Commands are voice activated, your voice has different wave lengths and pulses based on the tone of your voice and how fast you speak. Only specific commands can be used to create an Awakened object, much like specific metals, and Aons themselves are extremely precise as well. In Roshar, we have Stormlight, which is light, and there are different wavelengths and pulses for that as well. This theory makes a lot of sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well the difference between the Stormlight and the metals, Commands, and Aons is that those are the foci but the Stormlight seems to just be the fuel. It doesn't appear to determine anything. At least in fabrials, gems appear to serve the job as focus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stormlight doesn't seem to determine what kind of effect you get. I'd imagine gem and spren type is what does it on Roshar.

We'll need to get a Seeker close to Shallan to see exactly what's going on there. Her bronzebeat would probably spaz out a ton if she entered Shadesmar.

Edited by Observer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that only end-positive magics can be detected using Bronze. Meaning that only magics that draw upon the power of Creation can be detected. So Allomancy, (duh) Shards, and AonDor. Definitely not Awakening, hemalurgy, Feruchemy, or ClayShan. Would Returned or Elantrians show up? I say no to Returned, since they get energy once from Endowment, but yes to Elantrians and since they get a steady stream of energy from the Dor.

Now for Rosharian magic. I don't really know. I think that Stormlight is mystical enough that it is sttored Power of Creation, so you couldn't detect someone using it. But I to think a Bronze Allomancer would go crazy during a Highstorm.

Here's how I'm going to explain it. Imagine you have a Photosynthesis detector. It wouldn't detect when you're burning wood. That's how I see Rosharian magics (so far).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that only end-positive magics can be detected using Bronze. Meaning that only magics that draw upon the power of Creation can be detected. So Allomancy, (duh) Shards, and AonDor. Definitely not Awakening, hemalurgy, Feruchemy, or ClayShan.

Brandon hinted that strong enough Bronze would Feruchemy, hence my theory that it somehow became specialized to Allomancy

Would Returned or Elantrians show up? I say no to Returned, since they get energy once from Endowment, but yes to Elantrians and since they get a steady stream of energy from the Dor.

Aons are almost guaranteed to show up. It's also possible that Elantrians themselves would emit constant beats, making hiding from a Seeker impossible for them. Could play a part in the Conflux.

Now for Rosharian magic. I don't really know. I think that Stormlight is mystical enough that it is sttored Power of Creation, so you couldn't detect someone using it. But I to think a Bronze Allomancer would go crazy during a Highstorm.

As far as we know, what kind of magic you can use on Roshar is limited to your order. It sort of reminds me of Mistings, the specialization and all. I'm fairly sure you'd be able to pick up on them using bronze all things considered. As for HIghstorms, we still don't know exactly what they are, but I'm reasonably sure Bronze would go nuts with it.

Here's how I'm going to explain it. Imagine you have a Photosynthesis detector. It wouldn't detect when you're burning wood. That's how I see Rosharian magics (so far).

I feel like I'd understand that if I hadn't woken up so early. I'll come back tomorrow and see if I can make sense of that last bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...