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Roshar, Damnation (Rayse), and The Tranquiline Halls. Where are they now?


snote

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I am sure this has been discussed at length before. I just wonder what, if anything, could be speculated about where Roshar, The Tranquiline Halls, and Damnation are. Do we think the TH and Damnation are just places in the Spiritual Realm, or as I surmise, they are physical places? Maybe other planets, like the one that Odium has been mentioned to be on, in the Greater Roshar System.

The thing I ponder on, is based on what we know. There was once a war for The Tranquiline Halls. Men were ejected and now they fight a war (supposedly in the Spiritual Realm) to reacquire it. There's only one problem with that. If Odium is occupying Damnation, who is currently in The Tranquiline Halls? I don't know about you but if I storm a castle, I won't go back to my castle and live. Well, without leaving a governing body behind. I wouldn't pull a Astapor. If my castle is better, why would I leave in the first place? Sure, Odium is hate incarnate but he is also spiteful and cruel. He wouldn't hatekill a people and then leave to let them slink back in while he's not looking. At least I wouldn't assume he would do that. It also makes sense that he would occupy the place he's taken as an insult.

So, with that said, my theory is that Damnation is currently where the Tranquiline Halls were. Roshar is damnation or a neutral planet in the fight or an arena planet that they decided to have their war on. As it was WoB'ed that it was created by Adonalsium before the splintering. It also could have been where Cultivation was and she invited Honor and his people to come there to save them from destruction. Also, since the Parshendi are referred to as "The Old Ones" I think that they were possible created there by Adonalsium, and once men were kicked out of the planet they did live in, they came to Roshar like an unwanted houseguest. Now they are stuck and are taking over and ruining everything before they leave. I think it's even said in a death rattle or during a vision that Odium or the Voidbringers will burn the place to ground on their way out the door. To keep the humans from winning and having the place as a prize.

Which, I do fully and completely expect Roshar to be lost throughout the series. I don't believe the planet will be habitable by the end. It's referred to a half dozen times at least. Wit says it, Honor says it, the visions say it, I think the Stormfather says it. That the Everstorm comes and with it the end of the world. That the Final Desolation comes. The Sun meets the horizon, which may be a time based description or a terrible cataclysmic event. So, yeah, I think the war to reclaim the TH is what we're wading through currently. That if our heroes don't find a new place that all of mankind is dead. As well as the Parshendi and all the ugly multi-legged crab creatures.

Edited by snote
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The most common opinion on this, I believe, is that the Tranquilline halls are Yolen (which the humans who now populate Roshar probably immigrated from) and Damnation is Braize

Crap, I got "Rayse" and "Braize" backwards in my head. Sorry about that. Thanks for the reply though. 

That is kind of what I understood it to be also. Except the Yolen part, because I didn't read that story. Though, do you get my point? That why would you take out your enemy from the place they are. Then leave the place after you successful conquest? It would be like Hitler invading Russia and winning. Then just going back to Germany and leaving Russia empty and not utilizing the land in any way.

Do see what I'm, doing a poor job of, pointing out? It just seems like a weird move. I feel like maybe Roshar is Damnation and its harsh environment is that way because it was Odiums original place of residence. That when the Halls were vacated, the men went to Damnation and Odium took over the halls. Like a game of musical chairs almost. That instead of removing a chair, you get stuck with the crappier chair.

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That is kind of what I understood it to be also. Except the Yolen part, because I didn't read that story. 

 

I haven't either, but it's just a logical guess.

__________________________________________

 

As for Odium taking up residence in the Tranquilline Halls, remember that Odium has nothing to do with "controlling" anything. Dominion, if anyone, would be the one who would want to conquer the Cosmere. Just like Ruin has no interest in keeping anything alive once Scadrial is dead, Odium just wants to kill. Everything. The Listeners became his tools in that mission once they accepted his spren, but they aren't really his "chosen people" or anything.

Edited by Mckeedee123
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Odium went to Sel just to Splinter Devotion and Dominion, he didn't stay there.

That begs the question then. Is Odium only staying near Rosharon to draw out Cultivation? Because his destruction seems much less focused on the shard and more on everything.
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That begs the question then. Is Odium only staying near Rosharon to draw out Cultivation? Because his destruction seems much less focused on the shard and more on everything.

 

Remember, Odium is currently "contained" in the Greater Roshar system. He couldn't leave if he wanted to. His hatred for Cultivation and mankind is probably why he's attacking Roshar, though there may be other shenanigans about. 

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Yeah, but by those standards Cultivation is the acquiescence or instillment of something through some means or another. Like time for talent and labor for crops. Then Honor would be fulfillment of your word or ideals or possibly personal esteem. Yet those are at odds with what we see from those two. In my opinion. As to be "Honorable" you have to have a code or personal agenda that you stick to. So, for Tenavast to hold that shard, he gets to be who he is and hold to that above all else. As it's mentioned that Ati was a good man who was turned into Ruin. What the ideological form of Cultivation is, I couldn't begin to fathom. It's almost as if Honor is the good guy, Cultivation is neutral, and Odium is the bad guy. I had forgotten though that Odium had splintered others and was not living on their shardworlds.

Yet still, if you think of it this way. If Odium didn't occupy the TH. Then it is sitting wide open. What's preventing the humans left on Roshar from going there? I just feel that Roshar is a dead world. Slowly having its life snuffed out with each and every Desolation. That moments from the end we will see it wither and be lost forever. Though I could be wrong as applying logic to storytelling doesn't always work.

It's like trying to figure out why Zod, with his World Engine didn't just go to Mars and snatch up a few humans for the sake of repopulating Kryptonians. Not to mention, after seeing Kal El, why he would want to change Earth into his homeworld? If you knew you could survive somewhere and have all of Superman's powers, why would you go back to being human?

I say all that, just because I want you to know that I understand that a story without conflict isn't a story. That to convey that conflict, or allow for it, you have to bend logic and reasoning a little to make it work. I just mean that humans being kicked out of the Tranquiline Halls and Odium going there or not is just part of the story. If he did or didn't, that's fine with me. I am just curious if it is a considered part, as a character in TWoK actually asks this very question. They state that Damnation should be empty if it is how I am asking.

I feel there are a lot of signs pointing to the current habitat being snuffed out and the humans running for their lives. It's basically what has happened in both stories already. The good guys are staring down certain doom. Then, at the last second, an improbable event happens that gives them a glimmer of hope. That because of the right people being in the right place at the right time. Our story leads are able to stinky leg it across a bridge or through an Oathgate, at the perfect time to salvage the day. If this pattern holds, I would predict that during the trilogy in ten parts, the last minute rescue will be off world. Possibly to Damnation or the TH.

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Yet still, if you think of it this way. If Odium didn't occupy the TH. Then it is sitting wide open.

 

 

Odium does not care about occupying the TH. He's just here to kill things. Honor also bound him to Roshar when he tried to destroy it, so he can't leave.

 

 

What's preventing the humans left on Roshar from going there?

 

They don't know about it. Or how to get there. And for all we know, Yolen could be a dead world.

 

 

I just feel that Roshar is a dead world. Slowly having its life snuffed out with each and every Desolation.

 

Roshar is not dead. It is a very lush world. It's just lush like a tide pool instead of lush like a forest. The humans also got stronger with each desolation, instead of weaker. The Silver Kingdoms became very powerful and stopped fighting, the Knights Radiant grew and prospered. 4500 years of peace is what's really brought the planet to its knees.

Edited by Mckeedee123
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I've got a hunch that the horrible place of torture and suffering that the herald's are sent to between desolations is actually Braize, and they are actually being physically transported there.  Being that it sounds like the worst place imaginable...I'm pretty sure that this is where odium has set up shop. 

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  • 9 months later...

I think the Tranquiline Halls is actually Ashyn, the third world in the Greater Roshar system.  This would make more sense, as this keeps all the activity in the same system.  

 

DISCLAIMER: I have not read or heard any of the scenes from The Silence Divine.

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I'm kind of thinking that the TH is actually on Braize. We know Humans aren't native to Roshar, and that they came from Yolen, but I'm thinking they made a stop at Braize first. We know that Honor and Cultivation were in Greater Roshar before Odium, so it stands to reason that Humans predated Odium's presense there, as well. So they probably set up shop on Briaze, leaving Roshar to the Parshendi, Aimians, etc. When Odium Arrived, Humans had to leave Braize or be annhiliated, at which point I'm thinking Tanavast killed himself to seal Odium on Braize. Now Odium is looking for an out, which I'm pretty sure is what the Everstorm is, or at least prepping to break the seal. So, back on track, Odium is now trapped in the TH. Humans THINK about losing the TH, and have their mental pictures of it. Now Damnation actually IS the TH, and their TH is the cognitive representation, where the Heralds waged war, preventing anything from coming through Shadesmere to get to Roshar, at least before the seal was put in place. When they were killed in battle and sent to Damnation, I kind of see it as more transitioning out of Shadesmere into the Physical Realm where all of Odium's lovely friends can keep them company. I'm sure this is entirely wrong, but it is what goes on in my head until proven otherwise.

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