Magoslich Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Hello folks, been lurking for awhile and wanted to offer this tidbit I came up with while rereading Elantris. We know that Hoid took his name from his master right? (I believe that came up sometime during Stormlight) First, I think that the beggar that Hraethen speaks to while overlooking Elantris is Hoid the master and the younger man trying to get him to move on is Hoid the apprentice, Wit in future referencing. The main reason I think this is because when Sarene speaks with Hoid later in the book, He strikes her as an old man both from his voice and his appearance. He also seems to act with a lot less of that confident assurance that I feel is one of Wit's trademarks. Now Wit is perfectly capable of disguising himself and does often take the guise of a beggar. Still, I thought it might be worth some thinking. If someone has WoB that discounts this, let me know! Edited January 13, 2015 by Magoslich 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 As far as we know Hoid's master, the one "our" Hoid took the name from, has been dead for a very long time. No, the pair of beggars, old and young (also note, the one you hypothesize to be Wit is actually to young) are just that - beggars. Sarene, of course, meets the right one. This being said, there is no WoB on this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magoslich Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Ah fair enough. It was a thought. It only really occurred to me due to Elantris being chronologically first in the Cosmere, at least least I checked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 it currently is first, though there's several unpublished books that come first. White Sand is coming out, and it's (I believe) The first post Shattering Story. Dragonsteel is before Adonalsium Shattered, and that's when Hoid the Older dies I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 it currently is first, though there's several unpublished books that come first. White Sand is coming out, and it's (I believe) The first post Shattering Story. Dragonsteel is before Adonalsium Shattered, and that's when Hoid the Older dies I believe. Technically, we only knew that Liar of Partinel was pre-Shattering. It isn't clear how the Dragonsteel timeline will now work. Also, White Sand is not clear in the chronology, though I would guess early. But how early is anyone's guess. However, when Hoid was first being discovered when only Elantris and Mistborn were out, Brandon did say they are the same person in both books. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magoslich Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I appreciate the clarification guys. I guess I got caught up in trying to figure out the big Cosmere hint that is supposed to be in Elantris but after digging around it looks like it has to do more with the Aons. Still, never hurts to try out theories and see what comes of it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seana Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) The main reason I think this is because when Sarene speaks with Hoid later in the book, He strikes her as an old man both from his voice and his appearance.Sorry for the Necromancy, but I actually found a quote from the book that confirms why Hoid is the same person throughout every book in the Cosmere."Sarene had never seen his face, but she assumed from his voice that he was an older man." (Page 562, chapter 58, second POV section) *Sarene never actually sees Hoid's face!* Knowing Hoid, he is perfectly capable of masking his true voice; and with his talents, possibly even his physical features. I also seem to remember Hoid being a beggar in Mistborn too... Again, sorry for the necro. Edited January 8, 2016 by Seana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrae Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Sorry for the Necromancy, but I actually found a quote from the book that confirms why Hoid is the same person throughout every book in the Cosmere. "Sarene had never seen his face, but she assumed from his voice that he was an older man." (Page 562, chapter 58, second POV section) *Sarene never actually sees Hoid's face!* Knowing Hoid, he is perfectly capable of masking his true voice; and with his talents, possibly even his physical features. I also seem to remember Hoid being a beggar in Mistborn too... Again, sorry for the necro. Why does this mean that it's the same Hoid? I'm sure that plenty of worldhoppers have the ability to conceal their face, not just Hoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 It's just needlessly convoluted to assume two Worldhopper characters named Hoid are different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruxer Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Just a side note, I believe that Hoid is doing other meddling than in the parts where we see him identified by name in the books. The reason? Why on earth (or Roshar, Sel, Scadrial or other comere worlds) he would need to disguise himself around people who he's never met. I can imagine Hoid infiltrating the upper crust of society for either just general meddling or to give himself hours of entertainment at their expense. For example, if Lightsong or Siri had never met him before why would he be disguised as an old man storyteller in Warbreaker? Similarly here, why would he need to hide his face from Sarene unless he were concerned she might recognize him. I don't accept it as coincidence. Hoid has definitely been meddling far more than we assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Well, there are a couple of possibilities, there. I seems that you're thinking that he's disguising himself because he's playing multiple roles on the same planet. That's not unreasonable, but that's not the only reason he might be doing it. One alternative is that, because he is often trying to be relatively subtle in his manipulations, he wants to take on a character that will make the people he is talking to think of him in a certain way. People's perception of him influences how they receive his message and are influenced by it. By making himself look like an old man when he tells a story, his words are lent the authority of the wisdom people would assume an old storyteller to have. Another thing is, there are people who do know he looks like, and they are trying to find him. It seems that he doesn't want to be found by them. Remember that he often disguises himself as a beggar. People generally don't notice beggars unless they make themselves noticed, so it's a good disguise. Also, by constantly being in disguise, he upsets his pursuers' ability to describe him to others. The one consistent thing they can say about him is that he has an arrow-shaped face, but he can hide that with a false beard or--as in Elantris--by covering up so that people never see his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Beggars and such get him where he needs to be, and if they can't he's perfectly capable of infiltration in other ways, see also his stint as the Imperial Fool. There are other advantages to having a beggar as your default (costume is cheap to make and maintain, people don't care about your presence, etc.), but if he really needs to stay longer, or get someplace deeper, than a beggar would be tolerated, then he has other disguises. BoM Spoilers: I'd wager that the reason he's a beggar instead of a party guest in Bands of Mourning is because he wanted to pass on that coppermind and then leave ASAP, instead of enjoying the carbonated lemonade and risking detection by the 17th Shard (of whom at least one agent was in attendance) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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