imriel452

Plot to Destroy Adonalsium - CONFIRMED BY BRANDON

67 posts in this topic

I am thinking that the plot to destroy adonalsium was what brought "His" opposing force to his attention. Now that he knows of His Rivals existance, he realizes that, if left unchecked, these plots wil continue, and one will eventualy succeed. thus he sacrifices his conciousness, simmilerly as Preservation will do, to contain "His" Rival's power, and stop him from raveging "His" creations. Now that Adonalsium has become but a shadow of "His" previous self, "His" power shatters, and seeks out thoes individuals that imboddied their opposite atributes, looking to change the worst into their Perfection.

What do you all think of my version of the Shattering? I like it because it also explanes where that force is now. I'm not the only one wondering where that force is, am I?

I like it. There's a couple of things I don't agree with totally...but I like it. After reading a bunch of q and a sessions, I definitely get the feeling that the shattering may have not something that was done to him...but rather by him. Not certain, just kind of a feeling. Up vote for postulation...

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I've never thought about a plot to destroy Adonalsium, but I imagine him/it as a force producing life or at least civilization in the cosmere, and so this lead me to think about his opposite as a Chaotic force, which try to destroy what Adonalsium does.

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I believe a result of the weapon to destroy Adonalsium is that decaying plague/blight we see in LoP chapter 1.  As others have said, it's not cannon, but it points to a world threatening force prior to the shattering so it's reasonable to believe there's something like that.  The weapon itself could be something that infected Adonalsium with the intent of destroying it.  Except a way was found to counter this weapon by shattering Adonalsium, thus foiling the plot, though at the cost of a shattered Adonalsium.  

 

However, I have a feeling that the shattering that took place didn't quite work out as planned.  The anti-adonalsium force could have caught wind of the intent to neutralize their weapon via shattering and influenced matters in such a way that Odium and Bavadin's shard would be created.  Those shards could then be used to shatter all the others, which would further weaken Adonalsium's overall power, allowing this anti-adonalsium force to resume its goal, whatever that happens to be.  

 

I remember Brandon saying that if Adonalsium were to shatter again, it wouldn't necessarily shatter the same way.  But what if that diffence is due to specific circumstances and that there was a way to influence which intents it would shatter into?  Perhaps the "intent mix" of the shattering was something more overall balanced such that an Odium shard wasn't supposed to exist, but interference in the process altered the intent mix to something more desirable for the anti-adonalsium force.

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My personal theory (I don't know if this has been repeated above, so bear with me) is that maybe the plot to 'destroy' Adonalsium only partly failed. Instead of completely destroying him and his remains, he merely split apart into sixteen smaller 'shards'. The combatants on both sides, seeing these shards, both wanted to stop the other side from retrieving those shards, so it was basically a free-for-all with both sides collecting as many Shards as they could.

 

However, what I don't understand is why the side fighting for Adonalsium didn't just bond the shards they had. I can think of 2 possible reasons for this.

 

1) To have one person bond all the shards, the other original shardholders would have to die, and they weren't prepared to take that step.

 

I find this unlikely, but it's a possibility. However, if there's a grain of truth in anything I've just written, then I think option 2 is much more likely.

 

2) They didn't know it was possible to re-merge the shards, because they didn't have adequate knowledge of how Adonalsium's Shards worked.

 

Please note, I am taking huge leaps, and most, if not all, of what I'm saying here, is probably completely false.

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It has been confirmed through very tricksy wording by people on here (cannot remember the source, I hope someone will help me here) that the character Hoid is writing to IS a Dragon, which very likely does make it Frost.

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Well... if you're talking currently, not at-the-time, four Shards we know of have been killed by Odium, so it's more like 11 large-ish pieces.

"Killing" a Shard doesn't erase it though. The Shards are still there. The power is still there; just not the consciousness that directs them. Including Harmony, there's still 15 Shards (as far as we know).

As far as this 'wild conjecture' goes, how about this? What if NIGHTBLOOD was the supposed "weapon" built to oppose Adonalsium? Brandon has stated many times that Nightblood is 'significantly more powerful' than an average Shardblade. In fact, it 'eats' Investiture...if I remember correctly.

Unless we have proof that Nightblood WAS indeed formed after the Shattering, which now that I think on it...Vasher remembers happening. The forging, not the Shattering. Hmm. I might have just made a wildly inaccurate swing. Sounds far fetched anyway.

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He helped awaken the thing himself. If it was any special before he would've died touching it as his breath drained out.

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Returned are made from Splinters of Endowment. While it's possible that Vasher's Breath may have been a Splinter of Adonalsium instead, I find that HIGHLY unlikely. And as Vasher forged, or at least Awakened Nightblood, then I'm pretty sure we can say Nightblood didn't exist pre-Shattering.

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Question for everyone: do we think the Shards previously composing Adonalsium would also be opposed by this "opposing force" that failed to "destroy" it? If so, is it still out there and does Odium have some competition out there in trying to destroy what's left?  Or, do we think it wouldn't really care about the components...like some force being opposed to pizza and plotting to destroy pizza, but not really giving a hoot about sauce or dough or your selection of toppings?  Thoughts or gleamings from those more versed in the WoB?

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source

Spoiler 

By the way...I find this elaboration of Odium's reasoning to be fascinating.  I've been wondering why someone who was more or less the god of hate would be intimidated by someone who was a hopeless non- activist. (even one wielding incredible cosmic might)...but this makes sense.  Follow me now...if Sazed were to to drop harmony...and someone who was not yet influenced by the intent of harmony were to pick it up...they would be able to take on Odium.  Much like how preservation wouldn't do much about Ruin...because he just preserves things.  However, immediately after Vin picks it up...she comes at him swinging...

 

I like this a lot. I'm kind of fantacizing that the person to pick-up Harmony would be Marsh. :P

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On 1/20/2015 at 2:03 PM, ROSHtaFARian2.0 said:

Actually I don't believe we have any idea how the distribution of the Shards happened.  We know that Ati was a good man before he took Ruin, yes, but that doesn't mean necessarily that he CHOSE Ruin.  We also know that Hoid turned down a Shard, but again, all we can conclude from these things is that the original Shardholders had a degree of choice in whether or not they took up a Shard, much the same as Sazed did.  That doesn't mean however that they got to take their pick of the sixteen options.  Perhaps it was a location thing, like the Shard they were closest too, or perhaps someone like Frost approached them with a specific Shard.  We just don't have enough information to know there.

I was incredibly curious about this as well, how each person ended up with their shard. I asked Mr. Sanderson:

"...after the shattering did the people taking up the shards know which intent they were getting? I'm trying to reconcile why Ati, an allegedly kind and generous man, would willingly take up Ruin. It has left me with a lot of amusing mental images of the 16 drawing straws and Ati being last and getting stuck with Ruin, or this mad dash where the 16 eventual shard holders are picking up shards and maybe discarding them for others in the hopes of getting the one they want."

Not surprisingly, I was RAFO'ed - I imagine we won't find this out until the very end of the Cosmere books or we have enough info. to make a tentative inference.

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On 2/25/2017 at 2:40 AM, Aleph-Naught said:

I was incredibly curious about this as well, how each person ended up with their shard. I asked Mr. Sanderson:

"...after the shattering did the people taking up the shards know which intent they were getting? I'm trying to reconcile why Ati, an allegedly kind and generous man, would willingly take up Ruin. It has left me with a lot of amusing mental images of the 16 drawing straws and Ati being last and getting stuck with Ruin, or this mad dash where the 16 eventual shard holders are picking up shards and maybe discarding them for others in the hopes of getting the one they want."

Not surprisingly, I was RAFO'ed - I imagine we won't find this out until the very end of the Cosmere books or we have enough info. to make a tentative inference.

Actually Ruin choosing a good man made good sense to me. I mean, wouldn't Ruin want to ruin a good man and turn him?

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I think a driving factor behind any plot to destroy or shatter Adonalsium was direct access to investiture. All of the pre-shattering magic we have seen has/had been part of a natural system that require people to form symbiotic relationship to gain access to magic. On The First of the Sun people need Aviar, on Roshar the Listners need Spren and even in the published chapters of LoP people on Yolen, except Midius(Hoid?) and his master Hoid, need a symbiot use magic. Since the the one thing the Shards, that we've seen, have all done is provide investiture directly to people, is makes sense that is what drove them.

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On 1/26/2015 at 11:17 AM, theRealHoid said:

I believe a result of the weapon to destroy Adonalsium is that decaying plague/blight we see in LoP chapter 1.  As others have said, it's not cannon, but it points to a world threatening force prior to the shattering so it's reasonable to believe there's something like that.  The weapon itself could be something that infected Adonalsium with the intent of destroying it.  Except a way was found to counter this weapon by shattering Adonalsium, thus foiling the plot, though at the cost of a shattered Adonalsium.  

There's reference to fain-life in Arcanum Unbounded when Khriss is talking about the Scadrian System, so while the story isn't canon, the decay is.

 

On 1/26/2015 at 11:17 AM, theRealHoid said:

I remember Brandon saying that if Adonalsium were to shatter again, it wouldn't necessarily shatter the same way.  But what if that diffence is due to specific circumstances and that there was a way to influence which intents it would shatter into?  Perhaps the "intent mix" of the shattering was something more overall balanced such that an Odium shard wasn't supposed to exist, but interference in the process altered the intent mix to something more desirable for the anti-adonalsium force

It's talked about a bit in the same WoB

Quote

INTERVIEW: Nov 16th, 2013

ASKTHEPAPERCLIP

If Adonalsium were to shatter in a parallel universe, would it divide into the same 16 intents?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Um...it...Adonalsium could have been shattered in other ways.

ASKTHEPAPERCLIP

Was there a force determining which way it shattered?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes!

 

 

On 5/9/2015 at 2:07 PM, imriel452 said:

It has been confirmed through very tricksy wording by people on here (cannot remember the source, I hope someone will help me here) that the character Hoid is writing to IS a Dragon, which very likely does make it Frost.

Quote

QUESTION

You know Hoid's Letter, that is in The Way of Kings, it is given to a dragon right?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He calls himself an old reptile.

QUESTION

Is he immortal?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Functionally, meaning he doesn't age but can be killed.

QUESTION

And it is a he and not a she?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It is a he.

Quote

@spencerpanger He does not appear on screen in any published books, though he is referenced. He has a non-Interference policy

This is apparently taken as confirmation that the recipient is Frost by those who have read Dragonsteel.

I unfortunately haven't.

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11 hours ago, Wreith said:

This is apparently taken as confirmation that the recipient is Frost by those who have read Dragonsteel.

Oh those aren't the proof. These two however... they don't have room for misinterpretation.

Quote
Interview: Jan 7th, 2015
Central Library, Seattle, WA (Paraphrased)

Question

Is Hoid a dragon?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh I will give you a RAFO card. Have you read Dragonsteel? Don’t read it, it’s bad. He is one of the oldest people in the cosmere, but he is not the oldest. The person he is writing a letter to is indeed older than he is.
Quote
Interview: Aug 13th, 2014
Ask the Author: Brandon Sanderson (Verbatim)

Question

Who is the oldest character we know?

Brandon Sanderson

Frost is almost certainly the oldest by a small amount. After that, Hoid.

 

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On 2/24/2017 at 1:40 PM, Aleph-Naught said:

I was incredibly curious about this as well, how each person ended up with their shard. I asked Mr. Sanderson:

"...after the shattering did the people taking up the shards know which intent they were getting? I'm trying to reconcile why Ati, an allegedly kind and generous man, would willingly take up Ruin. It has left me with a lot of amusing mental images of the 16 drawing straws and Ati being last and getting stuck with Ruin, or this mad dash where the 16 eventual shard holders are picking up shards and maybe discarding them for others in the hopes of getting the one they want."

Not surprisingly, I was RAFO'ed - I imagine we won't find this out until the very end of the Cosmere books or we have enough info. to make a tentative inference.

My initial idea was that Ati was something like a grief councilor. Now that I know more about the period of DS I have refined my idea into: Ati works with the terminally ill, the geriatric, or is something like a priest performing last rites. Basically, a good man, but one who understands and accepts endings and helps others to do so as well.

Now, think about Ruin...

I thought Brandon clarified that we were thinking too much into the 'force opposing Adonalsium' and heavily implied it was the original Vessels?

Edited by Kingsdaughter613
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