Popular Post imriel452 Posted January 7, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I received my copy of Firefight this morning, signed and Brandonised as per usual My request was "to tell me something about the Cosmere that has not been previously mentioned" and this is what I received: Signing reads "To Adam, Long ago there was a plot to destroy Adonalsium. It failed." So, what does this mean for the Cosmere as a whole? Was Adonalsium split due to another plot to destroy it, or, did it possibly split under his/her/its/their own free will? What position does this put the original Shardholders such as Bavadin, Rayse etc - were their conspirators in a plot? Or was their taking on of shards a way to preserve the power of Adonalsium, albeit in a lesser form? If this is the case, how did they become the Shardholders of their specific shards? Was it all by choice, as we know Rayse's was, or by random fate? What is Hoid's ultimate role in the Plot? Opinions, as always, are greatly appreciated! Happy reading all! Adam 40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Very interesting, though unfortunately not as enlightening. I halfheartedly support the idea that Adonalsium chose to Shatter itself as an indirect result of this plot. I imagine a good and almighty divinity might be pretty surprised the first time its creations try to kill it. It could potentially lead to some introspection and maybe even the decision that sentient beings should govern themselves and therefore SHATTER. ohgod, The Legend of Korra made me a shipper, now I spew headcanons left and right. What have you done to me, Internet?! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Very interesting, though unfortunately not as enlightening. I halfheartedly support the idea that Adonalsium chose to Shatter itself as an indirect result of this plot. I imagine a good and almighty divinity might be pretty surprised the first time its creations try to kill it. It could potentially lead to some introspection and maybe even the decision that sentient beings should govern themselves and therefore SHATTER. ohgod, The Legend of Korra made me a shipper, now I spew headcanons left and right. What have you done to me, Internet?! This assumes that Adonalsium was both 1) good and 2) the creator of original humanity. We know Adonalsium is equatable to the power of creation, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Adonalsium was actually a benevolent entity that created Hoid's version of humanity. (Admittedly, I approach this from the stance of someone whose pet theory is that Adonalsium was a human construct, the result of Hoid's contemporaries trying to achieve godhood/tap the powers of creation, and its adversaries were a group who opposed its creation on the grounds that such powers were not meant for men to wield.) Edited January 7, 2015 by ROSHtaFARian2.0 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 It does assume both things, indeed. Though the former is entirely necessary - Adonalsium's introspection-inducing surprise from my headcanon could come from relies on the idea that the Shattering was effectively a suicide; there might be other reasons. As for the latter, it's something I am strongly inclined to agree with. After all, we know that even partial aspects of Adonalsium's power, the Shards, can create humans, so I would be very very surprised if Adonalsium couldn't. And if he could, but didn't... I don't know, it sounds inconsistent worldbuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 It does assume both things, indeed. Though the former is entirely necessary - Adonalsium's introspection-inducing surprise from my headcanon could come from relies on the idea that the Shattering was effectively a suicide; there might be other reasons. As for the latter, it's something I am strongly inclined to agree with. After all, we know that even partial aspects of Adonalsium's power, the Shards, can create humans, so I would be very very surprised if Adonalsium couldn't. And if he could, but didn't... I don't know, it sounds inconsistent worldbuilding. Hmm, I'm not sure why you think that doesn't track? I agree that whatever Adonalsium was, he/it could create humans, given that individual (or pairs of) Shards made up of its power are capable of that. I'm just arguing the chicken or the egg - aka which came first. Just because Adonalsium could create humans doesn't necessarily mean it DID (or at least not ALL humans, such as Hoid's branch of humanity). After all, we know there's at least something out there referred to as the God Beyond, and an entity like that could have created Hoid's version of humanity or whatever sentients plotted against Adonalsium. Totally valid and understandable if you don't subscribe to that particular theory, I'm just curious what about it you'd find to be inconsistent worldbuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I feel that the Shards would follow very closely in their "father's" footsteps when acting as gods to their Shardworlds, at least in trait-independent matters (e.g. the creation of sentient beings is mostly independent from traits like honor, or cultivation, or dominion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I feel that the Shards would follow very closely in their "father's" footsteps when acting as gods to their Shardworlds, at least in trait-independent matters (e.g. the creation of sentient beings is mostly independent from traits like honor, or cultivation, or dominion). Hmmm, I could see that. I think for me, the difference is I always saw things like Ruin and Preservation's creation of humans as being more influenced by their Shardholders rather than their Shard Intents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynax Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Could it be that the plot failed but instead of completely destroying Adonalsium, it was the cause of its shattering? Seems like a thing that could mislead easily. Edited January 7, 2015 by Ynax 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imriel452 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Could it be that the plot failed but instead of completely destroying Adonalsium, it was the cause of its shattering? Seems like a thing that could mislead easily. Potentially, yes - which could explain Hoid's involvement within the Cosmere - this could be something to follow up with at a later book signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Also realize there is a force that opposes Adonalsium, and there is a weapon built by that. Surely this plot would be related to that. Very cool fact! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Also realize there is a force that opposes Adonalsium, and there is a weapon built by that. Surely this plot would be related to that. Very cool fact! ...A weapon? This is the first I've heard of this. Can you please tell me what you mean by this? I am fascinated! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Also realize there is a force that opposes Adonalsium, and there is a weapon built by that. Surely this plot would be related to that. Very cool fact! Yes, I would also like to hear more about the anti-Adon force weapon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 well, that's something we already strongly suspected, because adonalsium didn't shatter himself, there must have been something opposing him. But it's good to have confirmation. mmakes everything built on it a bit more solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) It was a while back during the Words of Radiance launch, but I posted it here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6419-regarding-adonalsiums-opposing-force-shadows-for-silence-planet-name/ That's the extent we know of this thing. EDIT: Fun fact, originally I asked who is writing the text on the back of Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, and Brandon refused because it was too spoilery. This is what I got instead Edited January 7, 2015 by Chaos 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) begin wild conjecture: In the sample (unfinished...therefore non-canon) chapter of LoP, we get to see Hoid before he was a worldhopper...as we know that Hoid was present for the shattering of Adonalsium, we can assume that at this point in the story...Adonalsium was still intact. In the sample chapter, we learn that some force is slowly killing off humanity on this planet (I assume Yolen). It seems like some form of creeping decay that can only be kept at bay by...I think it's "fayne rings"? Which appears to be some kind of protective barrier that slows down this force from infecting certain areas. I propose that this slowly destructive force is...or is a symptom of...this attack on Adonalsium. Following this factually un-based line of reasoning...Adonalsium had to change it's form (shatter) in order to stop this attack from wiping out all of humanity. This changing of form sacrificed Adonalsuim's singular sentience, but left it's power behind, much in the same way that Leras sacrificed himself in order to prevent Ruin from destroying all life on Scadrial....knowing (or at least hoping) that future events could put the situation to right were he himself could not. Furthermore: perhaps the "injection" of undesirable intent (ie Ruin, Odium) was the form of attack, which caused all that he had created to become corrupt. "He" then segmented himself into different pieces hoping that further down the road these undesirables could be removed before he was reformed into one, once again. (like taking an engine apart into pieces in order to remove all of the rust before reassembling it) Conclude wild conjecture: by the way...imreal gets and up vote for sharing... Edited January 8, 2015 by hoidhunter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneKEA Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I like the idea that Adonalsium's divine hatred played a part in its Shattering, but entropy is hardly an undesirable Intent when it is joined with the rest; it's only when it is separated from the rest that it becomes undesirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have a feeling that Brandon's response was another sly, slippery answer that sounds totally revealing but is in fact something we already knew. In my mind, Adonalsium still exists, but in sixteen-ish parts; the Shards. So there was obviously a plot of some sort that caused Adonalsium's shattering, and it obviously failed, as Adonalsium lives on in sixteen-ish large pieces, and an uncountable number of splinters. I suppose it comes down to whether or not you believe Adonalsium isn't "destroyed," just "shattered." That's my view, anyways. Also, the sixteen-ish is due to whether you want to count Harmony as one or two Shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Well... if you're talking currently, not at-the-time, four Shards we know of have been killed by Odium, so it's more like 11 large-ish pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabbageHead Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Interesting.... If Adonalsium indeed had an "opposite", does that include opposites of its own intrinsic undesirable qualities (Odium etc.)? If the plot failed, was the shattering a deliberate long term power play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taveren Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 a force isn't necessarily an opposite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 except that it opposed adonalsium...which by definition...makes it opposite... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 except that it opposed adonalsium...which by definition...makes it opposite... That is... not how definitions work. I, for instance, "oppose" this post of yours: does that make me the antithesis of all you are? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taveren Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 great way to put it kurkistan also i oppose walmart but doesn't mean i have the same power as them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) opposing is a synonym of opposite...oppose, opposing, opposed, opposite, opponent, and opposition all share the same word root with different suffixes. This means that they convey a very similar idea, with the different suffixes making each more applicable depending on context. So...that actually is how definitions work. If you oppose something you are taking a contrary (or opposite) position to it. Much like how kurkistan is opposed to my post (his post expresses a opposite point of view to my own...but both are posts on 17th shard) but because he is not opposed to me...he doesn't have to be the antithesis of all that I am. I wasn't necessarily suggesting that in order for something to oppose adonalsium it has to be an evil identical twin....but being that this mysterious force is opposed to adonalsium itself...and not opposed to something that adonalsium does...it would be safe to say that it was the antithesis of all that adonalsium is (or...was?). To elaborate...for something to do a good job of opposing a godlike force...it would sure help if was on the same level power wise. (the heros in mistborn were opposed to ruin...but it wasn't until Vin became preservation, ruins opposite, that they were able to do much about it) ie...taveren is opposed to walmart...so he probably doesn't shop there often...but I doubt that Walmart as a whole really cares that much...or is even aware of his opposition. If he was the owner of a similar chain of supermarkets that were managed under drastically different ethical principals and stole buisness away from walmart...he would be doing a better job of opposing them. (it also might be more accurate to say that you are opposed to the ideas and practices of walmart ((as I doubt that you have a problem with every person who does or has ever worked for or done business with the company or the buildings themselves)) in which case...your ideas as to how such a business should be managed ARE opposite to that of walmart.) When Brandon talks about a force that opposes adonalsium...I assume that he is not referring to a person who chooses not to shop at adonalsium's chain of supermarkets...but rather something that has the capability to do a good job of opposing adonalsium. Otherwise...why would he bother to mention it? Edited January 9, 2015 by hoidhunter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nahlion Dahlyr Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Otherwise...why would he bother to mention it? To mess with our minds, as per usual. Quite honestly though, I think what occurred was that whatever this force was, either attacked or was attacked by Adolnasium, and they both kept pushing until both of them shattered. This is assuming the opposing force to Adolnasium was a being capable of being shattered, or it was suicide, or PERHAPS it was something similar to the recreance, after which the force swept him away. This raises the question though, Where did that force go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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