Shardblades

[dj26792]

I've read a few very different theories on shardblades on the boards, and I'd like to propose one myself. (possibly a second theory... that seems like something I would do)

Their religion, Vorinism, talks about getting kicked out of heaven by the bad guys and all life being building towards the retaking of heaven, lets assume that is in someway vaguely valid, there was a fight in the spiritual realm that they lost. My theory is that Shardblades are spiritual weapons, created by Honour, to use in battle against Odium in the spiritual realm, the reason they affect souls, is because they are primarily a spiritual weapon, their immense ability to cut dead objects is because the object lacking a separate soul is just a side effect (I'm struggling for a more coherent explanation, so its a side effect for now.)

A theory I saw proposed in another thread said they had bits of Odium in them and thats what causes the Thrill, I think its more likely something like the opposite, the thrill, was intentional, but has become slightly peverted, any sane person, even a great warrior with super weapons and armour would be almost incapacitated by fear in a battle with the voidbringers whose spiritual aspects are presumably even more terrifying, so to counter that the shardblades were imbued with an incredible battle lust/joy to counter that fear, I note in passing that when Dalinar is having his crisis over the thrill in battle he is initially revolted by it but it he eventually feels a similar Joy as he continues to fight having resolved his issues on why he fights, I think thats what the thrill is meant to be and the dishonour of the blades has somehow corrupted that since the radiants in a similar fashion to the missing powers of the armour.

What I lack a fully coherent explanation for is the reason for Syl hating the blades and not the plate, but this theory works without knowing that, sort of.

[king of nowhere]

I like it, and I find it much more likely than 99% of theories that are proposed on forum anyways.

I'm trying to think of a good answer for the Syl dilemma, but I can't come up with one. My original idea was that the plate is made to protect, the blade to kill (even if in battle the distinction between protecting and killing is quite blurred), but it don't make sense if they are both spiritual weapons.

[Oxinabox]

Sadeas gets the Thrill,

and he has no blade (only plate):

“I killed many who did not deserve death,” Dalinar said. “A man should not fear losing his head because he took one too many sips of wine.”

“Perhaps,” Sadeas said lightly. “But don’t you ever want to let it out, as you used to? Doesn’t it pound on you inside, like someone trapped within a large drum? Beating, banging, trying to claw free?”

“Yes,” Dalinar said.

The admission seemed to surprise Sadeas. “And the Thrill, Dalinar. Do you still feel the Thrill?”

Men didn’t often speak of the Thrill, the joy and lust for battle. It was a private thing. “I feel each of the things you mention, Sadeas,” Dalinar said, eyes forward. “But I don’t always let them out. A man’s emotions are what define him, and control is the hallmark of true strength. To lack feeling is to be dead, but to act on every feeling is to be a child.”

It is implied that Kaladin gets the thrill (though never stated with a capital T)

I can't find the quote, but I believe the Thrill is a Alethi genetic trait.

EDIT: found it:

"He was losing his thirst for battle. That worried him, as the Thrill—the enjoyment and longing for war—was part of what drove the Alethi as a people"

Edited July 15, 2012 by Oxinabox

[Inkthinker]

I doubt it's a genetic trait, but it does appear to be an experience which is formally recognized by Alethi culture. There's no reason to believe that it's not something felt by other warriors.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Inkthinker

[Oxinabox]

I doubt it's a genetic trait, but it does appear to be an experience which is formally recognized by Alethi culture. There's no reason to believe that it's not something felt by other warriors.

Szeth mentions feeling a thrill (lower case t)

[Asha'man Logain]

I've been of the opinion that the shardblades were corrupted by Odium, but originaly and mostly of Honor. Here's my rational.

Honor is behind the Heralds and (presumably) the Knights Radiant. The Plate and Blade are both tools of the Radiants. Something changed, causing the KR to abandon their tools. Blades do not cut anything living, but slice through non-living things almost without resistance.

I think that Odium, through his own powers, or perhaps through 9/10 of the Heralds splitting hairs about their Oathpact, was able to corrupt the Blades. He was not able to completely change their purpose (i.e. make them sever living things) but was able to make them sever the Spritual or Cognitive aspects of a living thing, thereby killing it.

This could explain why the KR abandoned the shards, also why Syl doesn't like them, yet still allow them to be tools of Honor originaly.

I no longer recall which bits of that were my own thoughts and which I got from here TWG etc. It doesn't really matter, I suppose but I don't want to claim credit for others' musings.

[Elwynn]

Just to add to the discussion, and reinforce the OP...

Even the KR, at the height of their power (Almighty 'missing' these times), felt the thrill. Check out the 'Starfalls' chapter. However, they seemed to have made an art of it, and possessed the means to counter it before it changed you.

...And all who have a desire to fight should be compelled to come to Alethela. Fighting, even this fighting against the Ten Deaths, changes a person. We can teach you so that it will not destroy you. Come to us.

emphasis not mine!

So I could see it being a perverted form of what it was, without the proper techniques/teachings to avoid it taking control.

But I don't see the Shardblades being any different than they were back then.

He was not able to completely change their purpose (i.e. make them sever living things) but was able to make them sever the Spritual or Cognitive aspects of a living thing, thereby killing it.

They never could sever living things, only dead and inanimate things. (or maybe you mean something different? That's just the way I read it.)

In 'Starfalls,' Shardblades are still summoned the exact same way, still have the same battle advantages...'...he effortlessly sheared a monster in half...' and presumably still would do the same to a human spirit like they did outside Feverstone Keep. Though admittedly that would be after the corruption you're talking about right?

I cannot promise you a position in one of the orders--that decision is not mine--but if your skill with the sword is similar to your skill with hearth-tending implements, then I am confident you will find a place with us.

THIS. IS. ALETHELA!

Fighting is all they do. Seems to me their weapons would have been suited for honorable full-time warriors. And Shardblades don't seem to have changed one bit in the thousands of years since.

I think Syl's problem stems from the creation of them coupled with the betrayal outside Feverstone Keep, the screams that Dalinar could hear.

Certainly could have been corrupted by Odium, but the Thrill was around before said corruption (possibly a genetic Alethi trait), and without that to throw in with it, they just don't seem to be any different.

The perfect weapon in the hands of an honorable defender.

[Riddlesinthedark]

I've been of the opinion that the shardblades were corrupted by Odium, but originaly and mostly of Honor. Here's my rational.

I'm wondering that myself, though it is wild mass guessing,but I am also thinking that that "corruption" can be a two way street. What if the Voidbringers (still obviously the Parshmen in my mind) have been similarly corrupted by Honor?

We have shards opposing each other, so I suspect it will be more like Mistborn than Elantris, AoL, or Warbreaker, and that sort of scrabbling for an advantage is how HoA played out.

[Uduak]

About the Shardblades: in the Stormblessed site a man made a theory really really interesting, mostly because he said that some fans traduced the Alethi language in the two Pages of the Notebook of Navani, obviusly this is a spoiler because it's not in the book. The link is here.Link

(I don't know if someone already posted and talked about this, in that case i'm sorry)

Now this explain why Syl dislike the Shardblades and the unique blade of Szeth althought why his eyes become blue?

From the images we see that the spren are trapped in these gems because after the KR disappeared humanity probably wanted to emulate their powers. With this i start to wonder, if it's like this then will Syl become a shardblade? (the construction of the plate remain unsolved) also because it'd be kinda difficult to beat Szeth without a Shardblade or the help of Adolin. (sorry for some of the Offtopic)

Edit: Actually if spren were really in the shardblades why Syl wan't made in one?(she obviosuly has something to do with KR) And i think in the book Re T. said to Szeth"you received your sword from your people". But i don't see Syl becoming a Shardblades. What are your thoughts?

Edited July 18, 2012 by Tel'Aral

[Thought]

Syl not liking the shardblades might be as simple as the mists curling away from hemalurgic spikes. If the two are being powered by different shards, even if those shards are on the same side, it seems likely that they "dislike" each other. Further, since we know that there's around 20 different magic systems at work in the Stormlight archives, it makes sense that we've seen a few by now. In turn, the difficulty of using surgebinding through shardplate could be akin to using allomancy on metal inside someone else (or, in this case, on someone inside metal).

[Dros]

If Syl is a splinter of Cultivation it could explain why she doesn't like Shardblades. They don't create or cultivate anything.

I know, I know, she's an Honorspren so she should be a splinter of Honor--but ya never know, right?

[Vortaan]

If Syl is a splinter of Cultivation it could explain why she doesn't like Shardblades. They don't create or cultivate anything.

I know, I know, she's an Honorspren so she should be a splinter of Honor--but ya never know, right?

Heck, let's go simpler. Honorspren bind things, Blades cut them apart. Of course she wouldn't like them.

[hoser]

Really interesting theory. It doesn't totally fit for me because I believe the Radiants and Shardblades follow the expulsion from the Tranquilline halls and the Radiants didn't seem to have the intention of taking them back.

Historically, as I understand it, the Radiants were started during Nohadon's reign, on Roshar. The Radiants, in turn, were the source of almost all the Shardblades. The only Shardblades that might predate the expulsion from the Tranquilline Halls would be the ten Honorblades of the Heralds. Presumably the Shardblades were made to mimic some of the aspects of the Honorblades.

In the Midnight Essence vision, the female Radiant explains their purpose:

"It is our duty and our privilege," the woman said, "to stay vigilant for the Desolation. One kingdom to study the arts of war so that the others might find peace. We die so that you may live. It has ever been our place." ... "Every pasture needs ... and watchers at the rim. We of Alethela are those watchers - the warriors who protect and fight. We maintain the terrible arts of killing, then pass them on to others when the Desolation comes."

Per Szeth, in the prologue:

According to legend, the Shardblades were first carried by the Knights Radiant uncounted ages ago. Gifts of their god, granted to allow them to fight horrors of rock and flame, dozens of feet tall, foes whose eyes burned with hatred. The Voidbringers. When your foe had skin as hard as stone itself, steel was useless. Something supernal was required.

I see nothing in this about any purpose beyond defending Roshar.

Based on the history and purpose of the Radiants, the Shardblades seem to have been created and used for fighting on Roshar. Whether they would be useful in the spiritual realm is another matter, of course.

What if the way that the Radiants kept fighters from being "destroyed" was through the Radiant Oaths? Maybe the only people trusted with Shardblades were five-oath Radiants. Maybe Syl's problem with Dalinar having the blade is that he has not committed to the oaths and become a full Radiant. There might be nothing wrong with the Shardblade, except that to Syl, Dalinar looks like a three-year old carrying a hand grenade around. Dangerous!

The way Syl talks about Dalinar's Shardblade doesn't really fit the previous paragraph's theory. She seems to refer to the blade as the problem, not the combination or Dalinar's lack of constraint.