Enhanced speed/strength of stormlight filled Kaladin

[tdogpete]

Hey yall, this is my first post, so go easy on me .  One thing that I've been wondering is how much of a speed/strength increase does Kaladin get when he's filled with stormlight.  Both WoK and WoR say that he has enhanced fighting abilities, but to what degree?

 

Another thing, when Kaladin was holding in stormlight, he was able to fight head-to-head with other, non-radiant shardbearers, in the 1v4 Adolin fight.  My question is, if kaladin were to put on shardplate, and be filled with stormlight, how much of an increase would it be?

 

 

[KevinTheHerdazian]

The plate would suck his stormlight whenever it gets damaged. If it's not damaged and he sucks it in then I think he would be like Shardbearer and normal shard bearers would be like humans compared.

[tdogpete]

The plate would suck his stormlight whenever it gets damaged. If it's not damaged and he sucks it in then I think he would be like Shardbearer and normal shard bearers would be like humans compared.

So you're saying that he'd essentially make the shardbearers look like regular people when he has plate??  And what about with out plate and filled with stormlight compare to a regular soldier? Like is it a pretty substantial amount?

[KevinTheHerdazian]

That's what I think. I could be wrong, but since plate enhances a regular person by say x% then it would just make any person x% better than he would originally be.

[Kurkistan]

That's what I think. I could be wrong, but since plate enhances a regular person by say x% then it would just make any person x% better than he would originally be.

 

Myself I would judge that Plate more likely enhances a regular person by some flat (or at least mostly-independent) Y, as opposed to its benefits being a function of their basic "Awesomeness". Otherwise I can't see how wearing Plate would allow Dalinar to be on nearly equal footing with other Shardbearers (his general competence and race with Elhokar as the prime examples). If Plate just made you X% <atb>er, then he'd be even more outclassed by a young man if they were both wearing Plate than if they weren't.

 

Of course the argument can be made that Dalinar is just that awesome, but I find that the natural reading doesn't suggest this.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Oudeis]

Yet Adolin also notes that Dalinar does seem to get even more out of Plate than most men. More strength, more speed, even more grace. Is it possible not every set of Plate is the same multiplier? Has Dalinar got some natural talent that gives him more out of Plate than most people get? I would say that his overuse of it over the years has given him Plate savanthood, but it's mentioned frequently that anyone with Plate tends to wear it at any opportunity; that's not a reason for Dalinar to be better with it than most Shardbearers, in that case.

 

Personally, I suspect it is a trait of Dalinar's. I think he's a savant with Plate (except by that I mean our, Earth definition of that word, meaning someone who is simply born talented and hones that skill, not the allomantic definition) and can simply get more out of it than most people can.

 

The fact that Elhokar remains so close with him, therefore... well, actually the whole scenario is sorta muddied. Elhokar stays even with Dalinar, but he does so by starting before Dalinar does, and also by taking at least one stupid risk that happens to pay off; if that one spur of rock hadn't held his weight, he'd've tumbled to the ground and Dalinar would have won. So, you can't really compare someone going "slow and steady" to someone who takes a big risk that pays off; there's no control group. Rust you, single point of data!

 

Anyway. Who knows. Is what I'm saying.

 

Do we actually see that Stormlight gives you more strength? It heals you, lets you sprint forever without losing your breath or running out of energy, but does it actually make you physically mightier? I feel like I cannot recall a time this is so, though granted it's something I've assumed for so long I haven't been looking. If anyone can recall even one instance where it's expressly stated that Stormlight makes you mightier, please remind me.

[Kyats Rani]

Hey yall, this is my first post, so go easy on me .  One thing that I've been wondering is how much of a speed/strength increase does Kaladin get when he's filled with stormlight.  Both WoK and WoR say that he has enhanced fighting abilities, but to what degree?

 

Another thing, when Kaladin was holding in stormlight, he was able to fight head-to-head with other, non-radiant shardbearers, in the 1v4 Adolin fight.  My question is, if kaladin were to put on shardplate, and be filled with stormlight, how much of an increase would it be?

 

Yes, it's said that the stormlight increases Kaladin's physical capacities, but in WoR they kind of made a point of trying to find out how much it does so (the tests that Sigzil spoke of) so propably there is no way to know the ratio for sure. But I guess it does enhance one's abilities of a certain constant so it depends how good somebody is on their own...

 

As for the Shardplate... The Plate does "feed" on Kaladin's stored stormlight to repair itself. Besides, in the prologue in WoK Szeth said that Shardplate interfers with Lashings. Now, is it only because Szeth is not a real Windrunner? Or maybe it's really about the Plate? But the Plate that Radiants' had is different than the one normal people have, so maybe teh real Radiant Plate wouldn't cause any problems? 

[Oudeis]

Besides, in the prologue in WoK Szeth said that Shardplate interfers with Lashings.

 

Hopefully this is more useful than pedantic... Szeth very specifically says his "Lashings interfered with the gemstones that powered Shardplate". So, it doesn't quite seem to be the same thing as the Plate itself, but interestingly he'd be messing with the gemstones.

 

Of course, this is paragraphs after he states that his Lashings won't affect a man in Shardplate, so since he has to touch the thing he Lashes, maybe he also cannot Lash through Plate. Not a guarantee; we know you have tactile senses through the gloves, so maybe you could still Lash through them. But it would interfere somehow with the gemstones themselves. A curious conundrum.

[Kyats Rani]

Hopefully this is more useful than pedantic... Szeth very specifically says his "Lashings interfered with the gemstones that powered Shardplate". So, it doesn't quite seem to be the same thing as the Plate itself, but interestingly he'd be messing with the gemstones.

.

Oh, thanks for pointing that out You are right, that's how it went.

I guess messing with the gemstones would be propably sucking the stormlight from them (as in accidantially taking the stormlight form the Plate not from other sources).

[KevinTheHerdazian]

 

Do we actually see that Stormlight gives you more strength? It heals you, lets you sprint forever without losing your breath or running out of energy, but does it actually make you physically mightier? I feel like I cannot recall a time this is so, though granted it's something I've assumed for so long I haven't been looking. If anyone can recall even one instance where it's expressly stated that Stormlight makes you mightier, please remind me.

when Kaladin was fighting the parshendi Shardbearer on tWoK he breaks his spear by swinging his spear super hard and it breaks that section of plate. I don't think he can do that regularly but I don't think he can.

[Moogle]

Hopefully this is more useful than pedantic... Szeth very specifically says his "Lashings interfered with the gemstones that powered Shardplate". So, it doesn't quite seem to be the same thing as the Plate itself, but interestingly he'd be messing with the gemstones.

Of course, this is paragraphs after he states that his Lashings won't affect a man in Shardplate, so since he has to touch the thing he Lashes, maybe he also cannot Lash through Plate. Not a guarantee; we know you have tactile senses through the gloves, so maybe you could still Lash through them. But it would interfere somehow with the gemstones themselves. A curious conundrum.

As speculation, we have one important shared trait of Shardplate and Honorblades: Shardplate feeds on Kal's Stormlight, and Honorblades do the same on Szeth's.

It seems to me that the reason Szeth can't Lash without disrupting the Plate's gems is that the 'pull' of Stormlight from an Honorblade is incredibly strong, beating Shardplate. So the Stormlight from the gems, which is intended to power the Plate, is instead drawn into the Honorblade... Which means that when Szeth Lashes, his Plate will temporarily lock up on him. It might even shatter the gems in the Plate because of the two great forces acting on them. We already know that Shardplate shatters gems with the slightest added stress, like having to draw extra Stormlight to repair the Plate.

What does this predict? It should mean a similar thing will happen to anyone in Shardplate wielding Nightblood, since Nightblood should pull stronger than an Honorblade. But that's hardly confirmed, it's just an extrapolation from the fact that Honorblades don't suck your soul.

[Oudeis]

An interesting and highly plausible theory.

[KevinTheHerdazian]

 

Do we actually see that Stormlight gives you more strength? It heals you, lets you sprint forever without losing your breath or running out of energy, but does it actually make you physically mightier? I feel like I cannot recall a time this is so, though granted it's something I've assumed for so long I haven't been looking. If anyone can recall even one instance where it's expressly stated that Stormlight makes you mightier, please remind me.

When Dalinar catches the chasmfiends claw on book 1.

[Savanorn]

Two things,

 

We know Stormlight enhances strength from when Szeth fights Dalinar, Adolin and Kaladin the first time because a single backhand from him knocks Dalinar to his knees and bloodies him. As it is, it's mention many times that Dalinar is big, strong, built like a wall and Szeth is not. In fact, he's kinda small and fragile. There's other examples.

 

Secondly as to Dalinar's particular skill with Plate, I'd say it's due to his proto-radiant status.  

[Oudeis]

There's a WoK interlude which flat out says Szeth kicks down a door with Stormlight enhanced strength.

[dvoraen]

There's one other angle that I haven't seen (or I missed it) in this thread:

 

What changes if the Shardplate is formed due to a Nahel bond?  We've explicitly seen that it takes on similar properties to 'live' Shardblades (the glow, and the transparency or outright dismissal of parts such as the helm), and since a live spren as your Blade makes a difference with at least an Oathgate*, what other qualities emerge when it's "live" Shardplate?

 

* I will wager that in this case, it's because your live spren has to communicate, in the Shadesmar way, with the 'spren' of the Oathgate to unlock and/or invoke the large-scale Transportation to the destination site.

[hoidhunter]

I also have to add that in one of dalinar's visions...windrunners wearing shardplate fall from the sky. To me...this reinforces the idea that people bearing honorblades can't use shardplate very well...but a radiant doesn't have a problem with it.

Edited December 20, 2014 by hoidhunter

[Savanorn]

I also have to add that in one of dalinar's visions...windrunners wearing shardplate fall from the sky. To me...this reinforces the idea that people bearing honorblades can't use shardplate very well...but a radiant doesn't have a problem with it.

 

It might not even be honourblades, just modern shardplate. 

[Musica]

As speculation, we have one important shared trait of Shardplate and Honorblades: Shardplate feeds on Kal's Stormlight, and Honorblades do the same on Szeth's.

It seems to me that the reason Szeth can't Lash without disrupting the Plate's gems is that the 'pull' of Stormlight from an Honorblade is incredibly strong.

The way I understood it, it's not the Honorblade itself that draws on Szerh's Stormlight. The Honorblade grants him the ability to Lash, but because the Lashing are 'artificial' instead of being a result of a Nahel bond, they require more Stormlight. Just using the Honorblade without Lashing won't draw on the wielder's Stormlight (though I might be wrong).

While reading the comments I had a realization- Maybe the difference between the way past Shardplates and current ones is even more similar to the difference between 'dead' Blades and 'live' ones- not only the fact that, as the common theory says, are Plates also made of Spren like the Blades, but also that you can bind and power the Plates in the Physical Realm the same way you do 'dead' Blades- with gemstones!

(Bear with me while I try to put my thoughts to writing)

A dead Blade can be bound by attaching a gemstone to the end of the hilt and carrying it around for a week, right? And Szeth says in the WoK prologue that the Lashing interfere with a Plate's gemstones- NOT with the Plate itself, but with the GEMSTONES that power it, that's why he can't use the 'dead' Plates. However, in Dalinar's visions, we clearly see Radiants wear Plates while also Lashing without any problem.

Radiants do not require gemstones to bind and use their Blades beyond their function as a Stormlight storage.

Maybe Radiants do not require gemstones to power their Plates, either, as the power come directly from the Nahel bond (or a secondary bond with the Spren that are 'cousins' to each Order's Spren), and so there is no interference?

Those using Plates now are regular people missing the key element to use Blades and Plates to their full potential- the Nahel bond- and the gemstones act as an alternative power source and way of binding.

Sorry if someone already theorized that and I missed it, but in most theories I read people focus on how a Plate is made, and less about what actually makes current Plates different from past ones.

[Oudeis]

Hrm. We have strong reason to suspect that Szeth could not heal from shardcuts. This implies that at least healing, not just Surges, are different for Szeth. Yet, he does at times seem to go weeks without Investing, though maybe he just does it surreptitiously.

Hrm. There's a thought. What if he's modeled like a Returned? What if, if he doesn't consume a certain amount of Stormlight per period of time, it will eat his soul?

That might make for an interesting scene. The Alethi army gives the Blade to someone so they have another Surgebinder, that person after a month or so happens to go a week without practicing and it eats his soul. The hazards of messing around with poorly understood primordial magic, like how Marie Curie didn't realize her experiments would give her cancer.

[dvoraen]

RE: Szeth and healing shardcuts.

 

I always got the impression that this was because Szeth believed he couldn't heal from one, so he couldn't.  "Everyone knows" you can't, so you can't, kind of deal.

Edited December 22, 2014 by dvoraen

[Kurkistan]

Except Szeth seemed fully aware that either a full KR or someone with access to Regrowth _would_ be able to heal shard wounds.

I believe we also have a WoB or two saying his inability is due to the nature of his Blade.

 

EDIT: This WoB is a bit on the fence if you want to argue perception vs. Blade, but I'd say the evidence of the Taravangian interlude pretty much pushes us over into the "Blade" side of the argument.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Kurkistan

[KevinTheHerdazian]

I thought it was because honorblades are just honour shard while shardblades are from honour and cultivation. I think that regrowth and healing have more to do with cultivation than with honour so radiants heal but honorblade bearers can't heal as well because there is not as much cultivation influence in the honorblades

[KevinTheHerdazian]

Except for heralds because they can use the full potential of their blades and their oathpact bond

[AerionBFII]

Brandon seems to base a lot of his magic systems on perspective and belief.

Hence why Lopen could grow an arm as he never got accustomed to losing it and Kal has yet to heal his brands because he can't see him self without them, i think this might be resolved in the next book though. The Ten Heartbeats. Szeth thought he new that Shard cuts can't be healed and such.

 

I've always wondered if the Honorblades just granted Surgebinding abilities or something else. Shardblades are from spren, a piece of Honor but i always assumed Honorblades had some other function. All we really know about them is that you can use them without the same restrictions and they consume Stormlight faster.