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How do Inquisitors "see"?


Twenty@20

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This topic might be old for many sharders but I unsatisfied with the explanation provided in Mistborn.

Inquisitor Kar PoV in The Final Empire CH. 38.

He couldn’t see anymore, not as he once had, but he had been given something better. A command of Allomancy so subtle, so detailed, that he could make out the world around him with startling accuracy.

Almost everything had metal in it—water, stone, glass . . . even human bodies. These metals were too diffuse to be affected by Allomancy—indeed, most Allomancers couldn’t even sense them.

With his Inquisitor’s eyes, however, Kar could see the iron-lines of these things—the blue threads were fine, nearly invisible, but they outlined the world for him. The obligators before him were a shuffling mass of blues, their emotions—discomfort, anger, and fear—showing in their postures.

This is the first time we get an idea how the Inquisitors "saw". It is clear that they were physically blind and they use allomantic blue iron-lines. Here I have the first problem. Colours can be appreciated only visually. Moreover, when Vin learns allomancy for the first time, she sees the blue iron-lines radiating from her chest. So I can't understand how the Inquisitors could see the iron-lines radiating from their chest and even see the colour while being physically blind.

Another issue I have is with the accuracy they have in visualising their surroundings. Unless everything around them has a metallic coating, I don't think its possible for them to pick up minute details. Of course, there are metals all around us. There are lots of metals in the periodic table. Still must have been problems. How did they see water? Only metal impurities should be visible to them but that won't help them to know that the impurities are dissolved in water. How did they diffentiated faces? How could they see the difference between glass and sand?

Did the Lord Ruler too have this ability as he was the most powerful allomancer on Scadrial?

Edited by Twenty@20
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Burning Metals increases the Mind's Capacity to take in Knowledge, or something like that. I'll find the WoB on it Later. But the Inquisitor's could see Silhouettes. Imagine in Movies, when a Character is using Heat Vision Goggles to see, everyone just glows Red. That's how I imagine it, except the terrain is blue as well. Everything is just different shades of Blue.

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Burning Metals increases the Mind's Capacity to take in Knowledge, or something like that. I'll find the WoB on it Later. But the Inquisitor's could see Silhouettes. Imagine in Movies, when a Character is using Heat Vision Goggles to see, everyone just glows Red. That's how I imagine it, except the terrain is blue as well. Everything is just different shades of Blue.

The silhouette or heat vision goggles analogy works but that means that the Inquisitors see blobs of blue of various sizes and shapes. And that is not terribly accurate.

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I always Envisioned it a a blue version of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Magnet0873.png in 3d. They don't see as there are not actual blue lines, but their mind still has to Perceive it and with the strength of their allomancy it ends up replacing sight.

 

So it would be a fusion of Electromagnetic lines from the picture above and echolocation that is attuned to metals. Meaning that they probably each perceive it differently.....

Edited by Lord Tavash Shar
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I was always under the impression that all inquisitors were savants in both steel and iron, causing them to see the blue linss differently. Like how Spooks tin flaring caused his senses to be enhanced.

The idea that Inquisitors were ironpulling savants is widely accepted in these forums. I have a problem with this idea though. Savantism implies that initially the Inquisitors were blind and by continuously flaring iron for a certain period of time, they got this sort of allomantic vision. We don't know whether this is true. We have the example of Marsh whom we saw moving around normally within a short short period of time after becoming Inquisitor.

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Blind Tin Savants have also been proven to easily Navigate their surroundings. It's possible that The Inquisitors are Augmenting their Ironsight with Tin.

 

...They have? Where?

 

Are you referring to how Spook can "feel" swords coming from behind him?

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1. Spook is a tin savant by the time he accomplishes this feat. And he gets surprised by Beldre's shot coins at the end, so it isn't infallible. I would suggest that even savant tin, let alone "I just got hemalurgically gifted tin" would be of limited efficacy in this case.

 

2. The MAG is not an outstanding citation.

 

I wonder if part of the physical changes, like your brain working itself around the eyespikes, is an automatic iron savanthood?

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A few people seem to believe that Allomancy itself grants some sort of excess brain capacity that allows Inquisitors to use iron-lines for visual purposes. Correct me if I am wrong.

What I thought is, can this same process occur for a Mistborn or a Lurcher who lost his eyes?

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What I thought is, can this same process occur for a Mistborn or a Lurcher who lost his eyes?

 

You don't even need to lose your eyes, though I can't find the WoB for that specifically. With practice, any Steel or Iron Misting could see like the Inquisitors.

 

As to blind people doing it, this WoB heavily implies it, though the person also mentions they're using tin:

Herowannabe ()

I recently picked up the Mistborn Adventure game and am loving it. I made a character who is a blind Mistborn because hey, I thought it would make for some interesting possibilities. As I understand Allomancy, he can hear/sense well enough to get around with Tin, plus even though he's blind he can still "see" Steel lines (like the inquisitors), and I assume Atium would work the same way—that is, he could still "see" Atium shadows. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Brandon Sanderson

No, you're right. That works. He'd have to burn metals a LOT though. It might warp him a little. :)

Herowannabe

The metal that's stumping me is Gold—what happens when a blind person burns Gold—especially if he "sees" a version of himself that isn't blind? Can he see the other version or just hear/feel/sense him? What about the other version, can it see things? Could a blind person use gold in this way to see the world around him?

Brandon Sanderson

A blind person would indeed sense these things, but not have the vision with the eyes. In the same way that a blind person still dreams, but doesn't "See" in them. (As I understand it.) I'd suggest talking to someone who is blind and getting their take on how this would work.

(source)

Edited by Moogle
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Kelsier is described in TFE as an expert in Iron and Steel allomancy. Is it possible that he could see like Steel Inquisitors?

 

Kelsier is never described as doing it, nor would he have any reason to learn to do it. I don't think he could, though he could probably have learned with practice. A lot of the tricks with Allomancy, like shielding other's emotions with a Coppercloud and not just your own, apparently need a lot of practice to learn. Kelsier just probably didn't devote the time.

 

Edit: Here's the WoB:

By the way, you probably remember form book one the way that Inquisitors see. They have such a subtle touch with Steel and Iron, and their lines, that they can see via the trace metals in everyone’s bodies and in the objects around them.

The thing is, any Allomancer with access to iron or steel could learn to do this. Some have figured it out, in the past, but in current times, nobody–at least, nobody the heroes know–is aware of this. Except, of course, for Marsh.

And he chose not to share it.

(source)

 

I swear, the annotations make it impossible to find anything specific. Every time I have trouble finding a WoB, it's either an obscure signing report, or else an annotation. /grumble

 

Also, this WoB implies Kelsier couldn't do it.

Edited by Moogle
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I swear, the annotations make it impossible to find anything specific. Every time I have trouble finding a WoB, it's either an obscure signing report, or else an annotation. /grumble

Also, this WoB implies Kelsier couldn't do it.

Have an upvote for your troubles.☺

Edit: Since Brandon talks about trace metals in human bodies in the quoted annotation, I would like to point out the metals are not nearly as rare in our bodies as often believed. Calcium is the most abundant metal in human body. Roughly 1 kg of calcium is present in our body. So much the better for Inquisitors.

Edited by Twenty@20
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The way I interpret allomantic manifestations (atium shadows, iron lines) is the fact that they're not actually directly wired to your visual cortex - they're just the best way your mind can interpret it. As such, and Inquisitor wouldn't have so much as sight as metal-sense - but to the degree and accuracy that we associate with vision. In many ways it is superior - from seeing 360o to seeing through walls. You can 'see' the shape and position of an object relative to you, therefore we think it sight, but only because we know nothing better.

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The way I interpret allomantic manifestations (atium shadows, iron lines) is the fact that they're not actually directly wired to your visual cortex - they're just the best way your mind can interpret it. As such, and Inquisitor wouldn't have so much as sight as metal-sense - but to the degree and accuracy that we associate with vision. In many ways it is superior - from seeing 360o to seeing through walls. You can 'see' the shape and position of an object relative to you, therefore we think it sight, but only because we know nothing better.

I like your explanation. You have almost convinced me.

Based on the discussion in this thread I realised there are two distinct abilities associated with iron and steel allomancy with respect to metals inside human body and diffuse metals in the environment. The first ability is to metal-sense these particles and gain the sort of vision Inquisitors have. The second ability is to push on these minute metal particles which Lord Ruler seemed to have.

The annotation quoted by Moogle above seems to indicate that the first ability could be learned by enough practice irrespective of the allomantic power one has. On the other hand, the second ability was dependent solely on allomantic power. So only someone like Lord Ruler could push on metals inside human body, while any allomancer can learn to use these metals to develop metal-sense.

Don't know if this is important but it kind of became obvious to me.

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I doubt that everything so clear as to equate Being able to see metal = Being able to Push/Pull on it, as we have seen from Inquisitors. The thread:

delved into many reasonings on why inquisitors cannot push on such minute substances, so I won't really try and elaborate on something I know so little of. But remember the Lord Ruler's power wasn't pushing on trace metals - Vin makes mention of the fact he pushed on the allomantic reserves in her stomach. Whether she is right or wrong is up for debate. 

 

As for the whole any External Physical Allomancer figuring it out, maybe they just need to get attuned to the metal-sense instead of just flaring as hard as you can. 

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There's another possible aspect to learning how to "see" like that, as of Alloy of Law.  If someone were to learn the trick, even as a brief scan of flaring the metal to pick up on the trace elements, it seems to me that it would be possible to spot outlines of aluminum weapons hidden away.  Since we know that you can block steel and iron with a layer of aluminum, that same principle could be used to ID the "null" spaces on a person's body that would block the sight.

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Something I think we're forgetting about (or maybe I'm just crazy), is that Hemalurgy is a lot more versatile than just granting specific powers. Meaning, that I think the Inquisitors eye-spikes are deliberately set up to give them super-metal vision. Inquisitors aren't just humans with a bunch of spikes, they're very specifically crafted Hemalurgic creatures with distinct abilities and biology. Remember that the Lord Ruler was never able to come up with another Hemalurgic creation in the 1000 years after his ascension. It's that complex.

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Something I think we're forgetting about (or maybe I'm just crazy), is that Hemalurgy is a lot more versatile than just granting specific powers. Meaning, that I think the Inquisitors eye-spikes are deliberately set up to give them super-metal vision. Inquisitors aren't just humans with a bunch of spikes, they're very specifically crafted Hemalurgic creatures with distinct abilities and biology. Remember that the Lord Ruler was never able to come up with another Hemalurgic creation in the 1000 years after his ascension. It's that complex.

A few posts back Moogle quoted a WoB from Mistborn annotations which said that any allomancer with Iron or Steel could learn how see with metal-sense. That pretty much rules out any role of Hemalurgy in it.

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