Question and Answer

[Quantum Toast]

Assuming that the RPG is canonical, it's a bit like using duralumin in Allomancy; if you tap it at the same time as another metalmind, it just gives you more of whatever else you're tapping. So it's not all that useful to a Ferring, you need at least one other Feruchemical power to use it that way.

Apparently there's also a way to use it to erase other people's metalminds (pretty much like what chromium does in Allomancy). I'd guess that if the Terris studying it only have Ferrings to work with, this is the only use they've found.

Though I think they changed a few details of how certain powers work for game balance purposes, so I wouldn't count on this as being 100% accurate.

[Odium's_Shard]

Yes, I was about to suggest that. While the RPG might be canonical, Brandon might still not have made his mind up about the exact use of the power, while the RPG needed information about it when it was made, and thus the information may change between the RPG and the books.

This has been enhanced by Brandon's excessive secrecy on the topic, which suggests it is more shocking or powerful than that which you state, and also I believe there was a quote in which he stated that the hero of the Second Mistborn Trilogy would be a double Nicrosil Twinborn, which implies there may be more in store about the storage of Investiture, and a way it can affect Allomancy, otherwise there would be no need to make him a Nicroburst as well.

Unless his purpose is as an anti-Metallic Arts fighter, meaning that he can counter both Mistings and Ferrings, using the two nicrosil abilities. However I doubt that this parallel exists between Feruchemical metals and Allomantic metals, as it doesn't appear to ring with the other metals, nor do there seem to be pairs/opposites in the normal grouping, or even in comparison between the two Arts.

[Kurkistan]

This has been enhanced by Brandon's excessive secrecy on the topic, which suggests it is more shocking or powerful than that which you state, and also I believe there was a quote in which he stated that the hero of the Second Mistborn Trilogy would be a double Nicrosil Twinborn, which implies there may be more in store about the storage of Investiture, and a way it can affect Allomancy, otherwise there would be no need to make him a Nicroburst as well.

I know that the protagonist for the second trilogy is supposed to be a nicrosil misting, but I have yet to hear that he would be a twinborn. Is there some new interview, or am I just forgetting something?

[Odium's_Shard]

I feel that I may be forgetting something, but at the same time, just a Misting wouldn't give BS ground to cover the mysteries of Feruchemical storage, seeing as how we already know exactly what Nicrobursts can do. What we don't quite know is how Investiture storage works, not to mention when compounded. However, just a Soulbearer would be OK, unless being is Nicrosil Ferring is as useful as a Gnat.

[Cheese Ninja]

I haven't seen any quotes about the main protagonist in the 2nd trilogy being a Twinborn either. I made a bunch of comments about it being cool if he/she either turned out to be one, or was turned into one either by a spike or Sazed's intervention. It might still be useless, but I don't think it would be. The main quote of BS's that I can think of is "anything relating to Investiture is a big RAFO". A full Mistborn serial killer would be an extremely dangerous enemy, with or without clever planning and/or strong allies.

[Odium's_Shard]

The fact that it is always RAFO'ed so hard suggests that it is a key plot point within either this series, or within the Cosmere, and what better way to breach the subject of Investiture to readers than to give a physical example in Scadrial, then work it out through the other Worlds. Hence, Investiture storing Soulbearer. Teamed with being a nicrosil Twinborn, he could also completely demonstrate the ability to Compound things, from a personal (and more informative) narrative than that of Wax talking about Miles, rather this Twinborn discovering the exact workings (we're talking precise figures here, such as the multiplicit rate of increased power and exponentiality graphs here, after all, what else are us nerds over on the Mistborn board going to debate about if not exact Allomantic formulae?) of Compounding, not to mention Compounding Investiture. Also, I feel that BS inserted 'Investiture' as the store as a wildcard type, to give him room to breath while he thinks of a suitably incredible power to fill the gap, as seemingly any magical power could be described as 'Investiture', so we'd have no grounds to complain whatever it turns out to be.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Odium's_Shard

[valkynphyre]

Here's a question: Can a Kandra gain Allomancy or Feruchemy from Hemalurgic spikes.

I ask because a kandra serial killer with stolen powers would be a pretty sweet villain.

[Odium's_Shard]

I've always wondered what the Blessings they receive are. I think I am right in saying that the Blessings, such as that of 'Presence', use Physical Hemalurgy (strength spikes, mental fortitude spikes, etc.).

I do remember one of the Kandra in the Mistborn Trilogy (1) saying there was a limit to the number of spikes taken? Was the a literal rule, or just one they imposed upon themselves so that Ruin couldn't inhabit them and discover the location of his Shardpool (?)?

Also, am I right in saying that a Kandra is a Mistwraith (which is a Feruchemist's remains, long story) that has received one of these spikes. So in a way, their very existence is Hemalurgic, not that they are enhanced by Hemalurgy (though I think Tensoon had two spikes, which enhanced him?), but I don't think it has to be one of the Blessings for them to be turned from Mistwraith to Kandra, and so if a Blessing isn't necessary, just a spike, you could surely spike them with Allomantic/Feruchemical powers? Or at the very least, if they require a Blessing, they are surely able to take two spikes, and thus could take a Blessing and a power.

[valkynphyre]

I've always wondered what the Blessings they receive are. I think I am right in saying that the Blessings, such as that of 'Presence', use Physical Hemalurgy (strength spikes, mental fortitude spikes, etc.).

I do remember one of the Kandra in the Mistborn Trilogy (1) saying there was a limit to the number of spikes taken? Was the a literal rule, or just one they imposed upon themselves so that Ruin couldn't inhabit them and discover the location of his Shardpool (?)?

Also, am I right in saying that a Kandra is a Mistwraith (which is a Feruchemist's remains, long story) that has received one of these spikes. So in a way, their very existence is Hemalurgic, not that they are enhanced by Hemalurgy (though I think Tensoon had two spikes, which enhanced him?), but I don't think it has to be one of the Blessings for them to be turned from Mistwraith to Kandra, and so if a Blessing isn't necessary, just a spike, you could surely spike them with Allomantic/Feruchemical powers? Or at the very least, if they require a Blessing, they are surely able to take two spikes, and thus could take a Blessing and a power.

The four blessings are: Awareness (2 tin spikes), Potency (2 iron spikes), Presence (2 copper spikes), and Stability (2 zinc spikes).

Kandra are actually mistwraiths gifted with a pair of spikes- both of the same metal, stealing a human attribute. They are not sentient without the spikes. TenSoon took OreSeur's as well, giving him the blessing of potency in addition to the blessing of presence he already had. (2 Iron Spikes granting physical strength like a constant pewter burn, 2 copper spikes granting eidetic memory)

Whether or not they could receive a benefit from allomantic of feruchemical spikes has never been explicitly stated, which is why I posed the question.

I don't really see why they wouldn't be affected, so long as the spikes were correctly placed, so until we get a Word of God, I'm going to assume it's possible and throw a rogue Kandra Serial Killer at my party of heroes. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA! This is going to be fun.

Edited May 23, 2012 by valkynphyre

[Odium's_Shard]

So you're saying that OreSeur had four spikes, two Blessings? Doesn't that mean that they could, potentially, have more spikes, these ones Allomantic/Feruchemical, without too much of a risk? And now that Harmony has control, and is both sides, he probably doesn't exploit constructs (unless they turned serial killer) and so it might be safe to have all the spikes.

[valkynphyre]

So you're saying that OreSeur had four spikes, two Blessings? Doesn't that mean that they could, potentially, have more spikes, these ones Allomantic/Feruchemical, without too much of a risk? And now that Harmony has control, and is both sides, he probably doesn't exploit constructs (unless they turned serial killer) and so it might be safe to have all the spikes.

Tensoon took Oreseur's blessing when he killed him. Tensoon had two blessings.

I think this requires a rageface.

GET ALL THE SPIKES!

Edited May 23, 2012 by valkynphyre

[Odium's_Shard]

Is this face rageful enough for you? Personally, I think he needs to be red.

[Zas678]

Here's a question: Can a Kandra gain Allomancy or Feruchemy from Hemalurgic spikes.

I ask because a kandra serial killer with stolen powers would be a pretty sweet villain.

Yes, a kandra, if given the correct spikes, could gain Allomancy. Let me pull up the quote.

ZAS

Could you make a Kandra an Allomancer?

BRANDON SANDERSON

With the right sequence of sorts of things, you could impart those powers to them theoretically. It’s not likely to happen, but you could do it. You could build a spike that would let them Push or Pull. But you’d give the powers separately, probably.

Source

But, and I feel like this should be mentioned, I personally think that the "bindpoints" for kandra are much different than for humans, so that you would need Ruin to guide the spike.

[Commander Spoonface]

Tensoon took Oreseur's blessing when he killed him. Tensoon had two blessings.

I think this requires a rageface.

GET ALL THE SPIKES!

Like this?

[valkynphyre]

Yes, a kandra, if given the correct spikes, could gain Allomancy. Let me pull up the quote.

But, and I feel like this should be mentioned, I personally think that the "bindpoints" for kandra are much different than for humans, so that you would need Ruin to guide the spike.

Actually, since they can rebuild their bodies, it would just be trial and error until they picked the right spot. Tensoon moved OreSeur's blessing around inside his body when he picked it up in book 3, dissolving organs and reforming them with the spike through them. Much easier for a kandra than a human. Only one person has to die.

Like this?

Yes, precisely.

Edited May 23, 2012 by valkynphyre

[Sunblesser]

here's a crazy one: do different metallic powers effect different essences/body focuses (yes, as in roshar's ten essences/body focuses)?

let me explain this thought i had. the physics of iron feruchemy are way above my head, but let me just focus on how it affects the body, and the two passages that gave me this thought. wax, during the wedding fight, notes that his body is strengthened enough to withstand his increasing it's weight. the primary organs of his body that are effected, i argue, are his bones and sinews; tendons, ligaments, cartlidge etc. these are the main weight-bearing organs of the human-body. when wax is hanging from the train while fighting miles, his body is lighter, but it mainly has to be his bones and sinews. his muscles have not lost any strength or mass, because they hold him with ease.

i'm sure you're all aware that bone is the body focus associated with the order of the stonewardens, while sinew is the essence of ishi's order. i'm betting that those two orders have powers that are associated with creating differences in weight. perhaps a stonewarden can increase the weight of something to ridiculous amounts using stormlight, while the tenth order (ishi's), decreases something's weight - creating the potential for escaping roshar's gravity in a vessel?

anyway, there are probably hundreds of connections like this throughout the cosmere.

here's another easy one. surgebinding and the metallic powers are so comparable.

jezrien. windrunners. inhalation (pulling into the lungs0.

iron. lurcher. pulling.

nalan. his order. exhalation (pushing out of the lungs).

steel. coinshot. pushing.

these two are less of a direct physical correlation, and more of a thematic one.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Sunblesser

[valkynphyre]

Not sure if the question i posted in the serious thread will be answered, so I'm going to post it here, too.

For Brandon: Which pony is Best pony?

[Odium's_Shard]

Actually, since they can rebuild their bodies, it would just be trial and error until they picked the right spot. Tensoon moved OreSeur's blessing around inside his body when he picked it up in book 3, dissolving organs and reforming them with the spike through them. Much easier for a kandra than a human. Only one person has to die.

This really interests me. Using this information that kandra could, potentially, give multiple bind points for spikes, does that mean that kandra as well as being Hemalurgic constructs that are incredibly useful for disguise, also be used as perfect Hemalurgic 'sources'?

If the kandra could take a spike without dying from it, as might a human, does that mean they could infinitely give charge to spikes? Or do they not have enough of a 'Spiritweb' to facilitate being stolen from (after all, they require Human Attribute spikes just to maintain sentience). In conjunction, can Hemalurgic constructs be 'stolen' from. For example, say a human had a Bronze Allomancy spike (like Vin, except they didn't have Bronze Allomancy before the spike), could you then steal Allomantic Bronze from them? Would their first spike just 'swap' the charge?

Could this be used to effectively stop Hemalurgic decay, by 'storing' the charge in a human (from which it doesn't decay, whereas in a spike it does) until the charge is required, and then 'swapping' it? Or would it be simpler to just use the original spike?

[ReaderAt2046]

I do remember one of the Kandra in the Mistborn Trilogy (1) saying there was a limit to the number of spikes taken? Was the a literal rule, or just one they imposed upon themselves so that Ruin couldn't inhabit them and discover the location of his Shardpool (?)?

I think that was a side effect of the fact that TLR provided the Blessings, so you couldn't get a new one except by getting it from a dead kandra (or a koloss).

[Zas678]

Could this be used to effectively stop Hemalurgic decay, by 'storing' the charge in a human (from which it doesn't decay, whereas in a spike it does) until the charge is required, and then 'swapping' it? Or would it be simpler to just use the original spike?

Maybe this is why Wax's earring still has a charge. The Faceless Immortals keep it in their bodies till there's someone that Harmony wants to be able to communicate with.

As for limitless Hemalurgy? I don't think so. I don't know if Kandra can be spiked (as in stolen from), and if they arem I bet they can only do it once without going insane. It is possible to spike someone and have them live.

ZAS678

Does the person being pierced in order to charge a Hemalurgic spike have to die?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Not necessarily. A spike does require you to rip pieces of a soul from the victim, but that does not mean they must die. They would be a very different person afterwords though.

Source

Hmm.. As for the spiking a spiked person... I guess it would be possible. It seems like it should work. But it would be a "messier" spike than normal (like the reused koloss spikes). And probably not as efficient either.

It would probably be better to just steal the spike from someone.

[Odium's_Shard]

After all, if you take the Hemalurgic spike from them, it effectively untwists the complicated processes in their body that stops them from dying with a spike through the heart, and causes immediate death of the target and the stealing of their powers for your side...

I can see very interesting problems and fights arising in the future of Scadrial when the Metallic Arts become an almost fine science. Hemalurgy might become a taboo, like stem cell research, or an invaluable tool. Problem is, if it is released to the wider public in all its glory, there would be chaos. New serial killings, for one...

It might just end up being a classified governmental tool.

[Commander Spoonface]

What, precisely, does the term Realmatic mean?

[Windrunner]

If I'm not mistaken it hasn't really been "defined". But a safe but would be of or pertaining to the Three Realms of the Cosmere.

[valkynphyre]

This really interests me. Using this information that kandra could, potentially, give multiple bind points for spikes, does that mean that kandra as well as being Hemalurgic constructs that are incredibly useful for disguise, also be used as perfect Hemalurgic 'sources'?

If the kandra could take a spike without dying from it, as might a human, does that mean they could infinitely give charge to spikes? Or do they not have enough of a 'Spiritweb' to facilitate being stolen from (after all, they require Human Attribute spikes just to maintain sentience). In conjunction, can Hemalurgic constructs be 'stolen' from. For example, say a human had a Bronze Allomancy spike (like Vin, except they didn't have Bronze Allomancy before the spike), could you then steal Allomantic Bronze from them? Would their first spike just 'swap' the charge?

Could this be used to effectively stop Hemalurgic decay, by 'storing' the charge in a human (from which it doesn't decay, whereas in a spike it does) until the charge is required, and then 'swapping' it? Or would it be simpler to just use the original spike?

Wow, this raises about 20 questions.

say, you take a mistwraith and turn it into a kandra-- perhaps give it the blessing of presence. Then you put a copper hemalurgic spike through this barely sentient baby kandra's heart and steal memory. Could it in fact steal an ability from a Kandra? Would the baby Kandra die or continue to exist with a terrible mental handicap? Would the hemalurgic charge in its spikes be diminished? How much of a hemalurgic charge would be in this new hemalurgic spike? If you took that now-brainless kandra and removed its blessing, then gave it a different blessing and repeated the process, how many fully charged hemalurgic spikes could you create?

wow... this is just scratching the surface, too.

[Kurkistan]

If I'm not mistaken it hasn't really been "defined". But a safe but would be of or pertaining to the Three Realms of the Cosmere.

So it should be pronounced realm-atic instead of the automatic (for me, at least) real-matic, I guess.