The Fate of Tanavast and the Shard of Honor

[Shardbinder 17]

Hi,

New to the board, long time WoT fan, new Sanderson fan- just read TWOK.

I've been lurking in this section trying to make sense of the magic systems in the cosmere and here's my idea;

Tanavast or what's left of his power is the Highstorm in the same way that the Mist was the body of Preservation.

"I've come to your land to chase an old acquaintance, but I end up spending most of my time hiding from him instead"

-Hoid, TWOK pg. 807

This might also explain why Dalinar and Kaladin have visions when there is a highstorm overhead- the remnant power of Honor/Tanavast is at its peak.

This would explain why the Shin believe that Stormlight is holy.

This could then be extrapolated to the magic system; Honorable Intent grants powers e.g. binding (Szeth bound by his Oath) is the basis of surgebinding, Telling the Truth (an Honorable thing) powers Travelling (Shallan) and Defending those who cannot defend themselves (Kaladin) Windrunning and Soulcasting/ Transformation (Jasnah) a historian who seeks Truth (also accesses her power when she believes she is protecting others).

What do you think?

Edited April 4, 2012 by Shardbinder 17

[Joe ST]

I like the quote

[Triasmus]

I think that's a pretty good theory. I don't know if I can espouse it yet, but it's close.

I'd have to compare it to the other theories that pertain to what happened to Honor, but I don't feel like doing that.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Lantern13

[Odium's_Shard]

Firstly, welcome to the forums! Don't worry too much, we don't (all) bite, even though there was that one, nasty incident... However, and please take no personal offence, but it is my personal job, as temporary and undisputed (as of yet) Holder of the Shard Odium, in all its Terrible and Concerning Manifestations, to slowly digest and then regurgitate theoretically every single comment made in your post.

Only kidding, I analyse word choice too.

"I've come to your land to chase an old acquaintance, but I end up spending most of my time hiding from him instead."

-Hoid, TWOK pg. 807

I think that this quote does indeed agree with Highstorms, however, even though Hoid was at the Shattering of Adonalsium, we have no proof that he 'personally' knows the Shards and their Holders save the Letter (which is conjecturally attributed to him). So the fact that he says that he hides from 'him' as opposed to 'it' means that, unless the Highstorms are literally Honor, which you might argue accounts for the face in the Storm, then Hoid can't be referencing Honor. Also, what reason (save Highstorms and their obviously deadly impacts), would Hoid have to hide from Honor, who is, figuratively speaking, dead. Its a pretty odd friends reunion.

[Telcontar]

I'd always thought of the Highstorm as a sort of transportation of the Power of Creation/Stormlight/Honor's power.

Highstorm are always the same, they come from the same point, called the Origin in-world. As Stormlight is essential to Surgebinding (which probably is Honor's magic system), he had to find a way so that Surgebinders could have Stormlight at hand, when they needed it. This had to come regularly. A Storm that comes regularly works pretty well appearently.

And the Storm is only that powerful because it has to go all over Roshar. It weakens more and more, the further it gets.

My guess is some manifestation of Honor (a Shardpool or something alike) at the Origin, which is transported by the Highstorms. I don't believe the Storm (ie rain and wind) are part of a Shard. Also, we know from Kaladin's POV when he is tied to the roof, that Stormlight only comes at one point of the Storm, charging the sphere and passing through Kaladin.

Anyway, pretty good idea for a newcomer!

[ReaderAt2046]

Highstorm are always the same, they come from the same point, called the Origin in-world. As Stormlight is essential to Surgebinding (which probably is Honor's magic system), he had to find a way so that Surgebinders could have Stormlight at hand, when they needed it. This had to come regularly. A Storm that comes regularly works pretty well appearently.

And the Storm is only that powerful because it has to go all over Roshar. It weakens more and more, the further it gets.

There's also my theory that the Highstorms were originally no more powerful than our thunderstorms, but odium boosted them the same way Ruin created the Deepness.

[Knightmare]

It sounds feasible but my one problem with it is that the epigraph in chapter 35 would suggest that Honor exists (or at least did exist) in the west, quite possibly in Shinovar.

“Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor.”

Also, out of curiosity, does the book ever mention if there were still highstorms during the era of the Radiants and if not how did they gather Stormlight and how did the Highstorms start?

Edited June 6, 2012 by Knightmare

[dyring]

Also, we know from Kaladin's POV when he is tied to the roof, that Stormlight only comes at one point of the Storm, charging the sphere and passing through Kaladin.

Is that interpretation generally accepted?

I sadly don´t have my book here and can´t checht the exakt line, but I seem to remember something like

"mixed with occasional bursts of power" or something like that, wich is very plural, and would hint very strongly that the stormlight does indeed come every now and then, not just once.

[Triasmus]

Is that interpretation generally accepted?

I sadly don´t have my book here and can´t checht the exakt line, but I seem to remember something like

"mixed with occasional bursts of power" or something like that, wich is very plural, and would hint very strongly that the stormlight does indeed come every now and then, not just once.

I generally accept that interpretation . I'mm pretty sure that the stormlight comes during that brief period of darkness... with the face (I'd have to search for it on my kindle, which i don't want to do).

[dyring]

found a book and checked it up, and I remembered wrong. The occasional bursts of power was when he was fed small gems during his coma I belive

[Pechvarry]

I was just thinking 2 nights ago that the highstorms ARE a shardic pool, a la the well. Thinking of them as the mists is much cleaner, though. I also like the highstorms-odium / deepness-ruin comparison.

[Trizee]

I think that the idea of Highstorms being Honor is a good one, what with the comparison to the mist and all. But I don't think that Hoid was refering to him. Hoid says he came to "chase an old acquaintance", which I don't see Hoid doing considering that Honor is shattered- how do you chase down a shattered Shard? Since they don't have a "body/host", how would one chase them down?

[ROSHtafARian]

I think that the idea of Highstorms being Honor is a good one, what with the comparison to the mist and all. But I don't think that Hoid was refering to him. Hoid says he came to "chase an old acquaintance", which I don't see Hoid doing considering that Honor is shattered- how do you chase down a shattered Shard? Since they don't have a "body/host", how would one chase them down?

Well you could argue that Hoid didn't know Honor was shattered before he came to Roshar, and that's why 'to his surprise, he found himself running from [his remains in the Highstorms]', going off the OP's interpretation.

[Dros]

Hoid's quote could be referring to someone we haven't seen yet. I wouldn't think he's referring to Odium, who isn't on Roshar yet. And it was my understanding from what was said in the letter, that Hoid was on Roshar as a result of Honor's shattering. After thinking about it, we know Hoid was present when Andolasium was shattered, but that doesn't mean there weren't others present as well. Perhaps there are other folks like Hoid around the Cosmere and it's one of those he is "chasing" and then hiding from.

[CabbageHead]

I'd always thought of the Highstorm as a sort of transportation of the Power of Creation/Stormlight/Honor's power.

I've always seen the storms as a manifestation of the battle between Honour and Odium. From the scene you quoted

The wind yanked him left, then hurled him right. He couldn’t know how long it lasted; time had no meaning in this place of fury and tumult. His numbed, battered mind started to think he was in a nightmare. A terrible dream inside his head, full of black, living winds. Screams in the air, bright and white, the flash of lightning revealing a terrible, twisted world of chaos and terror. The very buildings seemed blown sideways, the entire world askew, warped by the storm’s terrible power.

That sounds a lot more like Odium than Honour. But, at the same time, the storms provide stormlight. Bit of a mixed bag, chaos and evil, and the power of creation.

Also, we know from Kaladin's POV when he is tied to the roof, that Stormlight only comes at one point of the Storm, charging the sphere and passing through Kaladin.

I thought that was a kind of special moment, again light vs darkness.

In that darkness, an enormous face appeared just in front of his. A face of blackness, yet faintly traced in the dark. It was wide, the breadth of a massive thunderhead, and extended far to either side, yet it was somehow still visible to Kaladin. Inhuman. Smiling.

Kaladin felt a deep chill—a rolling prickle of ice—scurry down his spine and through his entire body. The sphere suddenly burst to life in his hand, flaring with a sapphire glow. It illuminated the stone roof beneath him, making his fist blaze with blue fire. His shirt was in tatters, his skin lacerated. He looked down at himself, shocked, then looked up at the face.

It was gone. There was only the darkness.

Kaladin has a vision of pure evil, and the light drives it away. Not exactly the best moment in time to use as a measure of the average conditions in a Highstorm.

[Thought]

I wouldn't think he's referring to Odium, who isn't on Roshar yet.

Do we know that?

[Dros]

Do we know that?

Not positive. However, the voice that halts Kaladin's joy ride on the highstorm at one point says, "Odium is coming." Maybe he means he's on Roshar and coming after the populace, but it was my understanding that meant he had not yet returned/or arrived on Roshar.