Reactions to The Path of Daggers AND Winter's Heart

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Double feature this time boys! So I finished up the Path of Daggers, and said to myself "I'll just read the prologue, that's all. Just the prologue...Ok, maybe chapter one, then I'll post my reactions." Next thing I knew I was over halfway done and decided to make the two of them into one big post. I feel like it almost works out better this way. The two books seemed to be more companion pieces than separate novels.

 

I can definitely see how people would be frustrated with these later books if they were fans when the books were first released. I was spared the agony of having to wait to read the next book, so I really didn't have any problems with these two. I could see how missing Mat for the entire book would annoy of great many people with that cliffhanger, but it seemed fairly obvious he would survive considering the number of side characters that were left behind with him. After reading through Winter's Heart, I was glad his story wasn't pushed in tPoD. The (relative) shortness of the book was refreshing, and the story flowed together really well. I'm equating these later books to be similar to A Feast for Crows and A Dance of Dragons, in that they are more about further establishing the characters' places and reactions to the events as they unfold.

 

I'll try to keep this as well organized as I can, but the whole story is really starting to blur together.

 

Aviendha chapters are absolutely splendid. I wish that he'd have utilized her more as a POV. I especially enjoy that there are specialties in the power that the Aiel have which the Aes Sedai think to be impossible. (It was especially gratifying to see Elayne attempt it and have it literally blow up in her face.) This may be weird, but I'm not sure how I feel about the Chosen not knowing that it was possible.

 

The dynamic between the Aes Sedai, the Kin, and the Seafolk was interesting to watch develop, however, I found myself hating the Sea Folk. When I first met them, I had a much different impression of them. Since then though, it seems that they are only displayed in a pejorative light since the inital meeting. They used to be one of the bigger mysteries in my head, as they seemed to be calm, cool and collected, and willing to make sacrifices for the greater goal. Now I find myself not caring about them, as they are obnoxious, obtrusive, and uncompromising. I find myself able to relate more to the Seanchan at this point.

 

Egwene was the most gratifying chapters for me in tPoD. Seeing her come to power and maneuver the other Aes Sedai is great. Suane in particular I think really has come into her own as a character, and is a great companion to Egwene. In fact, I think this story arch has been my favorite in the whole series so far. I particularly enjoyed seeing Aran'gar's reactions and that of Delana as Egwene unknowingly even outmaneuvered them. It was quite a shock to find out that Sheriam is either Black Ajah or controlled by the Black. I was quite sad to not see any Egwene chapters in Winter's Heart.

 

It was good to see Elyas again, and him giving Perrin Marriage advice was absolutely priceless, even more so since he was correct. This revelation alone cleared up so much confusion for me. I just don't understand women the way Mat or Rand does. It surprised me that the wolves were that upset by the events at Dumai's Wells. It makes sense, however, I just thought that the wolves would know the risks of heeding Perrin's call, and would not hold that against him. Perrin didn't force that on them after all.

 

I take back all the griping I did about Morgase's story arch, since it ended with Balwer in Perrin's service. I can't even pinpoint why, but Balwer is quickly becoming one of my favorite minor characters, right behind Lini. Their party meeting up with Perrin was not something I would have predicted, but it definitely is one of those events that just seem to click with the story. The Shaido capturing Faile and their party surprised me more than any other event to date.

 

Rand...Oh Rand. Cadsuane can't teach you fast enough. I didn't think that Rand was going to fight the Seanchan, so his first chapter really annoyed me. When I caught up with him again, I groaned internally and prepared myself for some drudgerous (this is a word now) reading. Then there was all the awesome that was the campaign against the Seanchan. I hope that a good portion of Rand's poor decision making is because of the taint. Up until now, I hadn't been acknowledging his attitude as arrogance, but he crossed that line somewhere, and has dived head first into folly. It's impressive he was still able to pull a victory off despite going against the advice of his general and Asha'man.

 

So...Bashere is going against Tenobia's wishes? That's interesting...if that storyline moves any faster. I had expected Rand to cleanse Saidin at the end of tPoD. That not happening contributed heavily to me reading through both books before posting this. The attack in Cairhien made a good deal more sense though for the sake of realism though. I knew that it had to be the work of Taim before it was confirmed in Winter's Heart. I knew he'd turn, but as I said last thread, I don't think he's one of the Chosen anymore.

 

Moving on more into Winter's Heart. There were enough gems in this book to get me through it without paying too much attention to the stagnant storyline. Elayne bored me this book. While Egwene finding a way to turn her puppet status into the puppeteer was enthralling, I didn't find much excitement in the Daughter Heir inheriting her throne. The ceremony to make her and Aviendha first-sisters was splendid though, the channeling component, but especially the interactions forced on them. This definitely is my favorite piece of culture from the Wheel of Time so far.

 

Far Midding intrigues me. I wish there had been more time spent in the city. Of all the cities we've visited, it seemed to have the most unique culture and government to explore, at least in the mainland, but it didn't get as much attention as I'd like. I'd love to learn more about the history of it, such as how they got the Guardian. Also, I thought it was a good twist to make it Cadsuane's hometown.

 

I'm glad there was confirmation that Cadsuane's hair ornaments are ter'angreal. I've suspected that from the start, and I've been waiting to see what she could do with them. I do find it a little odd that she should be able to recognize Nynaeve's ter'angreal and establish what they do. After nine books of continuous talk stating that no one knows what they do, it seemed very odd. Especially that Nynaeve was able to pick out the exact ter'angreal that would be useful to her without knowing what they were.

 

Thank god Rand addressed the fact that Lan gave him advice about protecting any woman he loves by leaving, and then did the exact opposite.

 

So Mat went from having a royal rapist to having a royal stalker huh? I guess that's an improvement...kind of. I correctly guessed that he would kidnap her about a chapter before it happened. A little bit better than some of my other predictions being proven right EXACTLY as I make them. A little. I wasn't too impressed by Mat's story here though, other than Egeanin, Bethamin, and Domon resurfacing. As with the rest, it was necessary reading, and I enjoyed it, just not as compelling as it had been.

 

Until the end. When it rejoined Rand in Far Midding, I was worried that the taint would wait another book. I was so happy to be mistaken. This is an event that I've been waiting for since the first book, and the scene didn't disappoint. Having Cadsuane show off her abilities was a cherry on top of my storyline progression sundae. The battle was very well executed, with a couple of nice revelations thrown in, such as Lanfear returning.

 

On that note, my magic 8 ball says that all signs point to Moiraine still being alive. Can't wait for her to come back.

 

It mentioned that Lanfear is the other one caught in the soul trap, so there goes my Asmodean theory. Did I pass the hint up already? Shadar Logoth being destroyed in the process of cleansing Saidin was another surprise, and pleasant at that. I wonder if that will limit Fain's magic death fog ability at all. Either way, in the game of "mess your day up" tag, it seems Rand is up.

 

I was a bit disappointed they didn't address the anomalies in the source around Ebou Dar in WH. Unless it all just dissipated over time. I'm curious to see if the same will happen around Shadar Logoth, though it seems that it would've manifested during the battle if it was going to happen, and as remote a location as it is, I find it unlikely that anyone will encounter it. It was an intriguing dynamic to contend with, and I hope that there's more of this type magical disturbance to ruin people's day later on.

 

I'm still waiting for Mat and Alludra to invent cannons/ballistic warfare. I've been expecting that since the Stone fell, and I was hopeful this book when they were mentioned together so often. It seems unlikely that he left Ebou Dar with her though.

 

That's what I've got for now. More to come if I think of it.

 

Edit: *Sigh* I need to stop posting this at work, it kills my formatting every time because of our stupid internet.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Fifth of Daybreak

[Topomouse]

It seems we have similar tastes, my opinions of the various plot lines/event are very similar to yours, there are only two exceptions: Rand against the Seanchan in PoD, and Mat escape from Ebou Dar in WH. I really didn't like reading about Rand definitely switching to emo mode. On the other hand I found Mat trying to escape from Ebou Dar, and accidental royal kidnapping, very funny.

 

Ah, what do you mean by "anomalies in the source around Ebou Dar"? Right now I can't remember what you are referring to.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

After they use the Bowl of the Winds, the Asha'man and the damane both say there is something strange with the source in the area. The damane came down with a sickness, and the Asha'man had trouble controlling saidin.

[king of nowhere]

well, you appear to be quite rare in not complaining about books 7-10. I also am perfectly ok with them, but most people say they don't like how they slow down, and some quitted reading there, so i always feel like i have to either defend them against the views of the majority, or take the coward way out and shut up.

 

as for the rest, well, i'd like to respond point by point, but there''s really too much stuff there. suffice to say that i also would have liked to see more of far madding, and as for cannons and magical warefare... well, the last book definitely won't disappoint you.

[Topomouse]

After they use the Bowl of the Winds, the Asha'man and the damane both say there is something strange with the source in the area. The damane came down with a sickness, and the Asha'man had trouble controlling saidin.

 

Oh, yeah. There was that stuff. I don't think it gets referenced any more in the books, it was probably a plot point that got discarded in the following books.

 

@King of Nowhere: I also find myself to defend books 7-10 from the critics. Then again, I read the series in almost one go (when I started reading it The Gathering Storm was about to come out), so I probably have different perspective from those who read it from the beginning. I can imagine that after climax of book 7 having to wait for a year or more and get Path of Daggers(which is objectively short compared to the other books, and relatively uneventful) knowing you will have to wait for another year or more can't be very good.

[Andrew C]

It's mostly 10 that I complained about. 7 was solid, 8 and 9 were at the weaker end of the series but still OK, but 10 is just terrible.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

I wasn't impressed when the Prologue lasted 97 pages, that's for sure. 

[The Rooster]

OK So I'll ask this here. I have been on off going through the series and am giving Crossroads of Twilight another crack. I'm liking it after a break since now it's like I'm back with these characters . My question isn't about CoT however it's about New Spring.

In publication order New Spring is next, and I'm considering skipping over. My question is SHOULD I skip (because I know I shouldn't) . It's if I skip New Spring will it matter. Anyone have any opinion on this? If I read all the way through will I be able to say that I've read the Wheel of Time if I skip New Spring? Also If it awesome let me know because then I'll just read it.

[Left]

Get through the rest of WoT first. New Spring was fine I guess, but it doesn't add that much to main story or anything. It's a prologue that takes place like 20 years(Don't actually know how long before it is, it covers a fair amount of time I think. It's been a long time....) before Eye of the World.

[AlUrsopapai]

That anomaly with the power was related to Rand's having Callandor. Someone told Rand after the fact that Callandor was flawed, that there was no buffer built in to protect the wielder from drawing too much power, and he realized it was the reason things with Saidin felt so weird.

[RossMurdock]

On 9/23/2014 at 8:51 AM, Fifth of Daybreak said:

After they use the Bowl of the Winds, the Asha'man and the damane both say there is something strange with the source in the area. The damane came down with a sickness, and the Asha'man had trouble controlling saidin.

The Bowl of the Winds took female power from the chanellers and drew male power from the environment.  This was "unnatural" and affected power around the farm. The spell was so powerful that it lingered for days around the farm.  There could also be some influence from the weave that was only partially unwoven and exploded.

[Broiler]

Read New Spring after Lord of Chaos or later.  It is a pretty good story, and I like it.  It does build on some of the main characters in an "Origin Story" way.  If you skip anything, skip Crossroads of Twilight, except that one chapter in Tuon's voice near the end.  (I really think it is CoT, if not it is in KoD, in which case skip CoT all together)

[chongjasmine]

I am stuck at book 10. Been reading it for more than a month. Slow going.