Voidus Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 I wonder if half-shards are invested enough to interfere with Lashings. Or if they can block Szeth from absorbing their stormlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepene Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) When I said that the archers would take time to show up I meant it takes them time to get around behind Szeth, they dont have it I honestly think the only way to stop Szeth is financially impossible numbers of halfshard tower shields for all your guards and charge him pin him and go to town with shortswords Ronan style and I reckon thats only about a 40% chance of working Yes, so you should post your archers around the walls of whatever room you are in so that when Szeth invades they are already in position. Have several groups of men around to engage him. He will presumably do whatever he does to those men and the archers can meanwhile pincussion him. There is an obvious way that Szeth will be stopped. The new king's guard is made of excellent spearmen and an unskilled windrunner, the old bridge 4 team. I imagine they will stop Szeth by counteracting his lashings to some degree with their windrunner and using their long spears to hold him off- he can come at them from any angle, they are an impenetrable sphere of spears. The author seems to like the theme of discipline versus individual skill- the hordes of skilled but isolated Pashendi versus the disciplined hosts of soldiers so the battle will probably be another one like that. So he likely will be defeated. We just have to find a way to disable his lashings somehow or overcome them without a windrunner. He can defeat enemies with shields easily enough- his lashings are good. Discipline and tricks are both needed to disable him. Edited September 29, 2012 by Nepene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Other than windrunning there are two weapons likely on scene that we haven't seen Szeth ahve to deal with. 1] Soulcasting, especially considering Jasnah may be able to set fire to his clothes at range even if she can't just incinerate him. 2] The Pain Knife. Navani's notes rather imply she has one and she's no less likely not to dig into her bag of tricks to take down Szeth than Jasnah. And both have had years, and more knowledge than we have of his abilities, to think about what to do if he shows up again. She's a weapons engineer and it's a technology she's been experimenting with. If nothing else Fabrials are unlikely to be effected by surges, so Pain arrows or throwing weapons seem plausable.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Fabrials might not have enough investiture to block Lashings, but yeah I do think that other magic is pretty much the only way to go for a sure fire defeat. On 'pain arrows' They still need to actually hit Szeth so they're not really any more useful since he can just dodge them all, and they might not even work on Szeth because he's invested too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Presuming that the arrows break the skin, they'd be touching his blood. Since blood in motion is somehow tied to the spiritweb, his investment is null when it comes to pain arrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 If you can shoot arrows which pierce his skin then you don't need fabrials on them I meant the normal use for pain-knives (Pierce clothing and cause pain) might not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Ah, I was thinking arrows that work like tasers too. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 If you found a way to actually hit him and wanted to capture Szeth instead of killing him then pain arrows would be great, you could hit in a non-lethal area and incapacitate him. I'm just saying if you can hit him with an arrow and want to kill him, don't waste gemstones I do also think that pain-arrows might be somewhat difficult since it would really mess up the balance of the arrow. But pain-knives might actually be quite a good idea, sometimes soldiers do get a lucky hit on Szeth and all you'd need is one. Just swarm him with them and hope someone gets lucky enough to scratch him before flying up into the air 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 If investiture counteracts the effects of other invested objects, would breathing in a whole mess of stormlight mean that a shardblade could only hurt you in as much as a normal sword? The only people we've seen breath in stormlight haven't ever been cut by one. Presumably. ... if this has been been brought up or dismissed or is totally off, sorry. There's like nine pages of argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj26792 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I dont think anyone has made that connection yet, but potentially yes, it might take horrendous amounts of stormlight to achieve though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Not sure, depends how Shardblades work but yeah potentially that could happen if you had access to every gem in Roshar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) I suppose it's a matter of whether holding in a lot of stormlight is like having a lot of biochromatic breath (which confers, I believe, investiture) or if it's like an allomancer drinking in a lot of metal. I'd guess it's the former, since the stormlight seems do things (enhanced reflexes, healing, resistance to injury) without the holder actually using it. Like how biochromatic breath endows the user with perfect pitch, connection to other human beings, and color recognition just by its presence. And I don't know if would take *that* much stormlight. Shardplate doesn't get cleaved through by a sharblade and it runs on stormlight. It would take a good number of gems, but not "every gem in roshar". Maybe as many gems as Szeth breathed in during the prologue. It's not like he ever got cut. Edited October 1, 2012 by Yados Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 And I don't know if would take *that* much stormlight. Shardplate doesn't get cleaved through by a sharblade and it runs on stormlight. It would take a good number of gems, but "every gem in roshar". Maybe as many gems as Szeth breathed in during the prologue. It's not like he ever got cut. Shardplate was designed to be able to not get destroyed by Shardblades, that's the active use of it's investiture. I think passively holding it to block a Blade would require a lot more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I'm pretty sure we'd have heard if fabrials or gemhearts could block Shardblades innately. Half-Shards were a major triumph of engineering, and they actively used stormlight to reinforce the shield itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure we'd have heard if fabrials or gemhearts could block Shardblades innately. Half-Shards were a major triumph of engineering, and they actively used stormlight to reinforce the shield itself. But the question is the nature of that strengthening. The book makes it clear that Shardblades cut through anything and everything without the slightest resistance. It doesn't care that you're shield is suddenly as strong as adamantium: if it's still just a physical shield, it's still useless. Edited October 1, 2012 by Kurkistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 The Ars. Says that it enhances Durability so it does seem that it's just a matter of making it stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Well, that's probably why Grandbows, which just reinforce phyisically, noticably predate Half-Shards. But the existance of fabrials that can block a Shardblade is a new and shocking revalation. And they took so long to make that rumors of the project existed during the assassination of Galinvar but they weren't completed until the main events of the book. It can't just be the Stormlight, because all fabrials have that. The reinforcement must be active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepene Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Shardplate was designed to be able to not get destroyed by Shardblades, that's the active use of it's investiture. I think passively holding it to block a Blade would require a lot more. 1. Szeth mentions that Lashings don't work with shardplate (on?). Is there any way to get around this (As in, lashing with shardplate on, or lashing people with shardplate on), and, if so, does it have anything to do with the Knights Radiant and/or their ideals? This has to do with the nature of the magics in the cosmere. They interfere with one another. Something that contains a lot of power--we call it investiture--resists the efforts of magic to influence it. A strong spirit can interfere as well. I imagine that if you had a lot of power in your body the shardblades would be about as effective as normal steel is on humans- extremely effective but not instantly fatal. The shields probably are aided by this and are insanely tough due to the special Ars. 1 unit of magic may be 10% effective at blocking other magics. 1 unit of magic spent specifically to strengthen things may be 50% effective at blocking other magics because all of its spirit is going into resisting things, hence why other fabrials are less or ineffective. It may be that the special runes are inherently better at the resistance Brandon spoke of. Or 1 unit of magic may always have the same resistance, but in a stable container (which is hardened) the spirit is less likely to leak out or break. Being sliced to pieces is likely bad for the magic. The durability of the rune would matter. Edited October 2, 2012 by Nepene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) It seems to me that shard plate becomes efectively useless when the higher levels of technology. Are reached. All you need are poison gasses or a gun I'd ont know how much fifty caliber Fidel shots a sharesrd plate could take same with wind runners just use something withe enough velosoty and a reverse lashing shouldn't. Make a difference swimming it still takes time trod a force to accelerait towards. An object. what becomes the issue is not how to take them out. not Bbut how to get enough force on them at once again the best way to conquer is blunt for e don't forget in shard plate youstill sort about head trauma just get a hammer er to the head Edited December 29, 2012 by Tarontos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Against Shardplate that might be useful but reverse lashings are capable of some intense pulling power, no matter what velocity it's travelling at they'll still be effected, at point blank range that might work but then a sword would work just as well. Actually managing to get a good shot off on someone who can move as fast and unpredictably as a Windrunner would be difficult too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Reverse lashings would lead to issues. But the fact is the stronger youmake the lashing the more stormlight you need. So what would they use to block something with that much velocity would likely shater what ever is being lashed spilling out the storm light instantaneously. Granted assuming that this is a higher level of technology he could just use a metal shield. That could also just shatter the bone. If they used that much stormlight they probobly wouldn't have stored storm light to protect their body. But I agree with it would be hard to hit the windrunner. Unless the wind runner used a fairly strong reverse lashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Recall that reverse lashings appear to work as agin toon of the speed of the projectile, so it might be even more effective against high-velocity targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Recall that reverse lashings appear to work as agin toon of the speed of the projectile, so it might be even more effective against high-velocity targets. Idont quite understand "to work as agin toon of the speed" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Idont quite understand "to work as agin toon of the speed" Oops, didn't check message: on a phone. "As a function of the speed" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Thanks I can't through stones tablets don't work so well either, I can't find any evidence in the book towards this but we will probobly find out in the next book, as of the testing. But that would also mean that that the faster something is going the more energy the storm light can exeret. Granted fantacy and sifi don't always follow physics so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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