king of nowhere Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'm wondering about the possibility of humans falling in love with sentient spren, and eventually being reciprocated. But before that, a couple of disclaimers are in order disclaimer 1: this thread is about romantic love, not sex. not that there would be anything wrong with a spren and human in love to have sex if they have the physical capability, but I'm certain discussing it would lead to the thread derailing and eventually getting deleted for inappropriate content. so pplease don't. disclaimer 2: this is not about shipping. please do not turn this into another syl ship thread (that also derailed into inappropriate content and was closed) Now that those points are cleared, I can expand on the introduction. upon forming a nahel bond, spren start becoming smarter and smarter. at first they are like children, but they soon progress, and syl and pattern appear to have a perfectly human intelligence and personality. with a superhuman knack for mathematics in pattern's case. that is likely to lead to the spren and knight becoming best buddies besides the nahel bond, and in the case of spren with a definite (and appropriate) gender identity it certainly would be possible that the knight could develop a crush on his/her spren. i'm especially thinking of honorspren, who are humanlike in appearence - because it would take a very particular mind to develop that kind of feelings towards a growing vine. So, how would a spren react to that? Could they reciprocate, or would they be more prone to run away? is the nahel bond already the equivalent of love on the spren's part? would it affect a radiant's progression? is it even possible that a spren would develope love first? And what if a spren had an affaire with someone other than his own radiant? I would think that, as spren are mostly the personification of human ideas, and their consciousness is directly influenced by how humans perceive them, a radiant loving his own spren would change the spren and make it more prone to emotions. if a spren was loved by his knight, it would make it much more likely to reciprocate. I think it would however be an obstacle to a radiant's progression, as the radiant would be more likely to seek the ideals for the sake of his relationship than for the ideal itself. I believe that a spren forming a relationship with someone other than his knight would be theoretically possible, but practically in won't ever happen, as we never saw a spren having any interest to talking to someone other than his knight. Furthermore, I think man-spren engagement would be relatively common among radiants: shackle two people together for some months, and they will either become best buddies - and possibly lovers - or hate each other. and the nahel bond basically consist in shackling the human and spren together. I'm curious to see how that will be played in the future. I guess a knight and his spren hating each other but still being compelled to be with each other by the bond could be another intersting discussion, by the way. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Interesting topic! Take an upvote for the rational way you approach the matter. My gut reaction is to say no. Romance is a very human trait--monogamy appears in only a small fraction of Earth-based species, and even animals close to us in intelligence are not prone to the behavior. Bonobos, for instance, are considered some of the most intelligent primates, yet are notoriously promiscuous. The concept of romantic love is strongly tied to human biology, and most likely would never occur to a non-human. You could shackle a bonobo and a human together for years, and even if the bonobo looked human, it would most likely never reciprocate any romantic tendencies expressed to it. The concept of romance might be as alien to non-humans as Pattern's love of lies is to us. Spren do not appear to be particularly human in their manners of thinking--Pattern is a good example of this. His psychology is one of complete detachment from humanity, not understanding any human customs or ways of thinking. Spren appear to be every bit as different from human beings as the fore-mentioned bonobos. And at least bonobos share a corporeal status with us. Sex and sociality are biological traits, hard-wired into certain species as survival mechanisms. Spren are living concepts, and are thus exempt from the rules of natural selection that govern other living things. The likelihood that they could understand romance, much less participate in it, seems to me very slim. That would be my two cents on the matter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowspren Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Theoretically I think it might be possible for a human to fall in love with their spren -especially an honorspren- (as has been said), however I think that with the knowledge that the spren has as far as the wider cosmere, they wouldn't be likely to fall in love because they are there to 'keep them in check" as Syl said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrian Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I think there is potential for romantic relationships between Knights and their Spren, though zero chance for the consummation of these relationships (and that is all the further I will go on that topic). Syl, Pattern, Wyndle, and Ivory have all expressed distressed when their Knight has been in danger. The Spren get something from their partners, but I don't think this makes the relationship strictly professional. Their oaths give them shared goals and their bond is an intimate connection of minds. Indeed, the bond may let human concepts of romance to bleed through into the Spren. Should any of the Knight-Spren relationships veer into romantic territory, though, I predict it will be more complication and less happily-ever-after. A Spren could never give a human everything they wanted, but they could prevent a human from pursuing more fulfilling relationships. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyabi Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I'm more interested in the concept of a Spren and their Nahel Bonded human hating each other, but continuing on due to the ideals. The likelihood of this happening I feel is very low considering the two would have to share a core set of ideals in order to be Bonded. Generally people who share the same beliefs get a long. Though I could imagine that, while wanting the same things, the way they want to go about them could be different which could cause tension between them, but when it came down to it, they helped each other in order to achieve the larger goal. This would be a very interesting relationship to see explored by a character, even if it was just an interlude character or someone we only saw once or twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondell Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Though I could imagine that, while wanting the same things, the way they want to go about them could be different which could cause tension between them, but when it came down to it, they helped each other in order to achieve the larger goal. This would be a very interesting relationship to see explored by a character, even if it was just an interlude character or someone we only saw once or twice. Actually that is a very close fit for describing the relationship between Wyndle and Lift. At the least there is certainly a certain amount of friction between their personalities. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surgebound Rainspren Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I dont think that mutual love could exist between spren and humans, maybe one sided love on the human side. but I spren are ideas then should a spren of the idea of love or long term relationships exist. its possible but with other spren the idea is just another human trait they don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted September 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 That's a good point here, we don't know very much how a spren think. Generally, for either magical creatures or artificial intelligence, I tend to assume that sentient is humanlike until proven otherwise, but it may not be the case here. I don't think we've ever seen a spren pow, that could help a lot. However, I think more likely that sentient spren have humanlike feelings becase pattern acknowledges that spren gained existance and sentience because of human perception. So, if the human mind shaped them as living ideas, it is reasonable to assume that it also shaped their mind. It's true, they are in many aspects alien entity, but I don't see their questions about "human biology" (let's call it that) as a sign of an alien mind, merely of alien bodies. However, even if spren can't love, it still poses a question. if a human was in love with his spren, would the spren be freaked out? would it affect the bond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatebreaker Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I think the spren would consider it ridiculous. It's kind of like loving an idea. You can appreciate the beauty and grandeur of a sunrise, but trying to marry it is just stupid and pointless. At the least there is certainly a certain amount of friction between their personalities. Ba-dum-tisssssh. Good one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 That's a good point here, we don't know very much how a spren think. Generally, for either magical creatures or artificial intelligence, I tend to assume that sentient is humanlike until proven otherwise, but it may not be the case here. I don't think we've ever seen a spren pow, that could help a lot. However, I think more likely that sentient spren have humanlike feelings becase pattern acknowledges that spren gained existance and sentience because of human perception. So, if the human mind shaped them as living ideas, it is reasonable to assume that it also shaped their mind. It's true, they are in many aspects alien entity, but I don't see their questions about "human biology" (let's call it that) as a sign of an alien mind, merely of alien bodies. However, even if spren can't love, it still poses a question. if a human was in love with his spren, would the spren be freaked out? would it affect the bond? I do thing it is possible for a human to fall in love with his spren, but I am unsure if the spren would be able to comprehend this feeling. I do think what the sprens feel towards their human is akin to a form of love, but it would not be love in the romantic sense. Syl obviously cares for Kal, but to love him would be to wish she were human as well.... Perhaps we are going to see this in the future. A spren wishing it were human so it could be free to fall in love. Other sprens such as Pattern look too cerebral to comprehend love or feelings in general and seem to regard personal relationship from a scholar point-of-view. I am not sure if would affect the bond... Syl, for example, likes to be praised, so it may be she'd feel flattered if Kal would ever to develop romantic feelings for her. However, on the long run, it would saddened her as she would eventually realize she cannot give him what he wants, so yeah I guess at this point it could affect their relationship. So far, we have seen only two sprens: one that is keen on honor and what is honorable and one that is keen on scholarly matter as opposed to feelings. I am quite sure Glys will be quite cerebral as well and the Stormfather will be a jerk Sprens from more emotionally driven orders may behave different. Windle, for example, was such a perfect superficial Edgedancer spren: looking forward to bond a gardener or someone that fits his ideal depiction of a knight as opposed to someone who actually has the proper qualities.... I just can't wait to see the Dustbringers They are the impulsive hotheaded ones. I just can't wait to see what kind of spren they get... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Hopefully it wouldn't be as weird or creepy as Arondil from Skyrim: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Arondil For those of you who don't know what I'm referring to, Arondil kills a bunch of girls and then has... romantic relationships with their ghosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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