Developing a sci-fi magic system - please help!

[Bunnyburn]

I'm a little overwhelmed with ideas right now, so I am coming to you guys for help. I don't really know where to start, but I've seen you sharders in action, so I trust you can follow along. I feel like putti.g this down and discussing it will help me more that brainstorming by myself.

Alright, to start off, we have 'psyv', the base energy of existence. Except for physical matter, everything consists of pysv in some configuration. This includes: light, sound, heat, gravity, and any other non-physical forces. (I'm still a little unsure what other energies fall under this category)

Then we have some fictional technology, (this is where it gets a little more abstract.) We have the psyvitrons, which act like sensory organs for psyv, and psyviline, which acts like a neurological pathway for this energy.

--I feel the need to sidetrack for a moment. Now eyes are already sensory organs that take in psyv in the form of light, and the brain converts this specially configured psyv (rays of light) into an image. The psyvitrons bypass this conversion, cognizising the 'light itself' rather than converting it into an easily comprehended medium (sorry for the abstraction, you may see why I am lost) The same goes for heat and sound. Normally the brain uses the psyv in these energies to create manifestations that we can comprehend. By bypassing the normal pathways in the brain and nervous system, this psyv can be manipulated into any other fundamental force, and ejected back into the world through the pysvitron. ---

Back to the science. psyvitrons are installed in the hands, and psyviline connects these devices to the brain. This circuit acts as a secondary nervous system that ferry light, sound, heat, etc. to a part of the brain where they can exist in pure form, and be understood in pure form. (this understanding does not come easy. I am likening exposure to these sensations to what a newborn baby comprehends as it takes its first breath, but it can come to particular strong-minded individuals skilled at abstract thought.) When they are held in the mind in this unconverted form, a trained mind can manipulate the configuration of this pysv into other forms, limited by their understanding of the configurations, and the quantity of pysv they have to mold.

There is also technology designed to generate forces to draw from. One of these, called a grinder for now, is a series of gears that are wound tight, and as they unwind they grind a pair of plates against one another to generate friction, ergo heat and sound. This device can be rewound whenever a handy source of psyv is necessary.

I have some basic ideas on the world this will all take place in: Since these systems are augmented into the nervous system, medical practice is fairly advanced, as is the field of psychology and the study of thought. I am envisioning a somewhat 'steampunk/Clockwork era world, but with psyv-power driving industry insteead of steam power.

The technology being developed is based off of another sentient race on the planet. This race is far more attuned to psyv and the forces of the world, and their natural biology allows them to manipulate psyv naturally. pysitrons and psyviline are based on their natural organs.

I am sorry if this is confusing, I myself have only a tentative grasp on what I am trying to do here. I hope you have critical questions and that you can find lots of holes in my system so I can fill them and flesh this into something real.

I have idea on how the act of drawing psyv into oneself will work, and applications for it, but I want a firmer grasp on the basics first, and I hope some critical analysis from you guys can help. So please, if you are confused, ask me to clarify. If you think this is stupid, tell me why. And if you think you understand what I am getting at, help me solidify it into something less abstract.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Bunnyburn

[Argent]

The very first thing I need to ask - why is physical matter not psyv? This is the scientist in me talking. Energy and matter are interchangeable, one can be converted into the other (the whole E=mc²), so if the universal forces are psyv, why not everything? Moreover, sound for example is not a force, it's a purely physical phenomenon (vibrating molecules, essentially). 

 

I think you've got some more science to research before you are ready to polish the details. I am sure I and others here (and the Internet, naturally) can help you though.

[Lindel]

From what I can tell, the reason you're limiting Psyv to forms of energy, not matter, is to put some barriers on what someone with a Psyvitron is capable of, correct? I have to agree that being fully capable of transforming anything into anything else could be problematic. However, I also have to agree with Argent's assessment, in that making a fundamental distinction between energy and matter isn't scientifically sound.

 

Perhaps it's just a function of the world's scientific progress. They haven't yet reached the point where they understand the connection between energy and matter, and as a consequence have really only tapped into a fraction of the Psyvitron's potential. 

 

If that's the case, then for the purpose of discussion we can continue assuming Psyvitron-wielders currently can only affect forms of energy, not forms of matter.

 

Now the big question is how "sciency" to you want to go with this? It looks like you're taking a more quasi-scientific approach to me, so I'll continue assuming that's the case for now.

 

Here's a list of some of the more basic forms of energy. I'm not exactly an expert, but hopefully it'll help get us thinking. You scientists out there correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

 

-Kinetic 

-Potential (Energy stored up inside an object based on its position. For example, a spring, or a stretched rubber band.)

-Chemical

-Electric 

-Magnetic

-Radiant (Electromagnetic radiation, including light)

-Nuclear (Binds the nuclear of an atom together. Obviously very, very powerful.)

-Gravitational

-Heat

-Work

-Mechanical Wave (Ripples, waves, sound, etc. If I understand correctly, earthquakes also involve a transfer of energy through mechanical waves, so there's some interesting potential there.)

 

These forms of energy can naturally be changed or generate other forms of energy. Kinetic energy creates heat due to friction, Potential energy becomes kinetic when the spring or the rubber band is released, gravitational energy creates kinetic energy when an object is dropped, electrical energy is transformed into radiant energy and heat in a light bulb, etc.

 

If I understand correctly, these Psyvitrons uses the basic idea, but to a greater degree. Kinetic energy might be exchanged for directly for light, perhaps heat for gravitational energy, or dozens of other less common conversions.

 

A grinder would use mechanical work to create kinetic energy which generates heat and mechanical waves, giving three sources of energy that can be converted. With the abundance of energy constantly around us, a grinder seems rather redundant. But maybe the conversions are easier with certain types of energy, and a grinder is able to generate a larger supply of the right kinds of energy? 

 

I think it would also be helpful if you could give us some examples of what sort of feats you envision being performed through Psyvitrons. Some I could see having a lot of potential are mini-earthquakes, changes in gravity (Windrunners, anyone?), and possibly illusions, both auditory and visual, to name a few. Depends on how much control a Psyvitron has on the energy after it's converted. 

[Bunnyburn]

The seperation of matter and energy into two distinct categories is something I am planning on sticking with. I plan on doing some research into the real-world parallels of the forces I am playing with, but it is important to note that this world doesn't operate on exactly the same principals as ours. I have some fundamental ideas on how energy works in this world. Basically, where I break the rules established by science, magic fills in the gaps. That being said, I understand the need for some coherency. I don't want all my figures to be pulled out of my chull. I want knowledgeable readers (such as you gentleman) to be able to stomach where I make things up.

Thank you Lindel, for that list of types of energy. You have given me a few new ideas to toss around.

I am thinking of having devices like grinders because of the way psyvitrons work. The device needs to be in contact with the force. Having red-hot metal within arms reach will be very useful, I think. You could always use the ambient temperature of the air, but temperature will be charged with more pysv the further from a 'base' temperature (I am thinking about room temperature). So extremes of hot and cold will provide more energy to work with.

The other forces work in similar ways. Brighter light, louder sounds, etc. will have a higher charge of pysv.

The psyvitrons work by absorbing the force, essentially removing it from existence, and seperating the raw pysv from the "idea" or "thought" that tells the pysv what to do. The person would tweak this sort of code in their mind (this is where things get a little abstract and dangerous) and then release the pysv back into existence with its new instructions. It is mentally taxing and something humans are going to be studying and learning. Pysv can be very volatile if clear instructions are not given. The universe (and the race of creatures after which pysvic technogy is designed ) understand this language instinctually. Humans are trying to teach it to themselves.

I hope that makes sense. This is still magic we are dealing with.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Bunnyburn

[Lindel]

Interesting. Okay, so physical contact between the source of energy and the Psyvitron is required? And this also holds when you're replacing the energy? 

 

Say I absorb the psyv from my grinder. It immediately cools down, and I know have that psyv stored up. I then place my hand in front of me and send a wave of mechanical waves in the form of a powerful sonic blast, basically. Does that work? It seems to me that the difficulty here is scaling. For a large scale effect, would I need an equally large amount of energy?

 

Can you store up psyv? So, could I continually remove the heat generated by my grinder over a long period of time, and then be able to release a single, huge blast of some other form of energy? 

 

On a different note, would there be specialization among psyvitron wielders? Perhaps some are particularly good at creating heat, while others specialize in gravitational manipulation? Just curious. 

[Bunnyburn]

You're almost dead on Lindel. The scaling you mention is the foremost kink I have to iron out. I am thinking that a skilled pysvic (thanks quiver:) ) would be skilled at finding every loose scrap of psyv they could, and storing it in their circuitry. In the instance of grinder use, they would not only draw psyv from the hot metal, but the high pitched grinding noise as well. Absorb the noise as the plates heat, building up a reserve, then supplement that with the heat. The process could be repeated for as long as the psyvic could concentrate on the forces. The more time these cosmic instructions spend in the rigid confines of human thought, the less likely the psyv will still know what to do with it. This is further exacerbated by the alterations that are made. (imagine building a house of cards. you can make it as big as you want as long as you know exactly where to place the cards. But the bigger the house, the bigger the mess if you topple it.) that comparison isn't perfect, but I trust you get the idea.

Theoretically, with enough concentration, limitless psyv could be collected. It would continue to grow 'denser' and saturate the circuitry, increasing in pressure until it is released.

Specialization will be hugely present. Given the complexity of the concepts, different psyvics will be more familiar with forces they have become accustomed to. (through practice and exposure)

I keep typing 'pysv' instead of 'psyv'

You have it right, I'm just clarifying in case anybody is confused by my typos. Psyv not pysv lol

Edited September 3, 2014 by Bunnyburn

[Lindel]

Alright, I'm curious about a couple things, so here are some questions. 

 

Would it be common for psyvics to keep a reserve of stored up psyv, replaced often to keep it fresh? Or would most use a grinder shortly before it was needed? 

 

Are there any negative effects to just storing psyv before it's released? Do you have to keep your psyvitron to retain previously stored psyv? Once it's "installed", can you even take a psyvitron off? 

 

Is it possible, for whatever reason, for a human to born born with inherent psyvic-like powers? This would be very rare, of course. Perhaps more limited, but with more powerful uses in that single area? What would some distinctions be that separate innate psyvic power from psyvitrons? Rather than transmuting energy from one form to another, a "born-psyvic" might instead be able to transfer energy, instantly moving it from one place to another. I just need to jot down these ideas as they come to me. Don't feel the need to try to decipher any of this. I'm not even sure I have any idea what I'm saying. Where was I? Transferring energy.

 

Okay, so I think I figured out the main point I'm trying to throw out there. It comes down to this. Are there other ways out there of harnessing psyv? Obviously there are some out there. This sentient species you mentioned, for one. The psyvitrons are based on that species' biology, so likely their psyv-manipulation functions very similarly. But what are the differences? Technology is rarely able to perfectly replicate nature. Just some ideas to explore. 

 

 

[Bunnyburn]

I am considering another type of technology which is essentially a battery for psyv. The issue I have with that is it conflicts with my desire to make psyv volatile and unpredictable the longer it is kept from doing something.

The installation of psyvitrons and the other requisite technologies is a serious operation. They can be removed and reused in another person, but between the trauma of removing them, and the mental trauma of losing all that input that a psyvic would be accustomed too, I dont think the person would survive. So practically, psyvitrons are permanent.

If you lose control of psyv you are holding (by failing to give it proper instruction, or by holding it too long (I dunno what 'too long' is yet, probably in the ballpark of a minute, maybe two)) disaterous things will likely occur, from frying yourself out, destroying your psyvic tech and likley yourself, or unintended and uncontrolled release of psyv.

I am thinking the main character might be naturally gifted. Perhaps not capable of manipulated psyv without the proper tech, but at least exceptional at comprehending the nature of some or all of the forces. The creatures that are naturally attuned to the flows of psyv in the universe, while intelligent beings in their own right, do not have any kind of conciousness we could comprehend (this will make them very difficult to write I think I haven't a clue where to start) Try and imagine what it is like to be a tree, or a star, or the sky.