Reactions to The Lord of Chaos

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Another book down! This was another one of those that I just couldn't put down. I had small get together with friends on Saturday that I almost cancelled simply so I could spend the day reading. (I did manage to silence Lews Therin's rumblings that I should be reading and spent the day being social.) I'm very torn between which of these last two I enjoyed more. I'm leaning more towards the Fires of Heaven simply because I felt like there was more wonder and discovery, between learning more about Balefire and Asmodean hanging around. I also felt like the climax of Fires of Heaven was just a bit more engaging. I was fairly skeptical going into the last hundred pages or so when it seemed that it wouldn't wrap up, but the ending was definitely explosive enough for me, just very unexpected.

 

I'm jumping ahead of myself though. From the very beginning, Jordan did a fantastic job of building tension throughout the entire book. Especially in the beginning with the dynamic between Taim, Bashere, and Lews Therin. At this point, I'm not convinced that Taim is one of the Forsaken, it seemed that he didn't know how to make a gateway, so that really eliminates that possibility. Beyond that though, I'm certain he will not be a force for good, after witnessing the efficiency in which he trained the Asha'man to kill. I'm suspicious that the Black Tower will grow to be as sinister as the name suggests.

 

The one portion of this book I cannot praise enough is the amount of character development that has been worked up to this point, and finally come to fruition. It seems that with the exception of Elayne and Mat, most characters have had a grueling story arch that has left changes that are both tangible, and believable. While Nynaeve and Egwene used to leave a bad taste in my mouth, now I'm just astonished by the changes apparent and that continue to take shape. The amount of respect I had for Egwene increased exponentially after she met her Toh.

 

Gawyn was surprising for me. I understand how he's come into the place he is, but I can't help but regret it. He seemed such an earnest and well intentioned character that has been twisted by the trust he had in Elaida and the tower. I really hope that he is able to learn what events have truly transpired, and that his story is less dark than it seems to be heading. The viewing Min had was very sinister, and he seems to grow more dark every time I get his viewpoint.

 

I suspected early on that Egwene would get made into the Amyrlin, but I doubted myself over and over due to not knowing that technicality. When she was summoned before the tower I knew for certain, but it takes away the ego boost when you solidify your theory a chapter before it's revealed. (This is probably a commendation to Jordan, as he puts in enough foreshadowing in for me to realize immediately before, but it's also frustrating to have things happen immediately after.) One thing that surprised me was the Little Tower beginning its march. Since about midway through The Fires of Heaven, I've been expecting a large scale battle at Salidar, between the Aes Sedai, the White Cloaks, and then the events of this book. I understand the Band is following, but I'm wondering if the White Cloaks are also following, which would make three fairly substantial armies marching close together. That's a powder keg waiting to blow if I've ever read one. I expect it will come to a head before they reach Tar Valon, as it wouldn't be advantageous to have a hostile army behind you while you lay siege to the bloody White Tower.

 

Mat and Olver also were a pleasant surprise. It seems like a great relationship starting to build, and one that will help temper Mat. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy him as a character, but there's a lot of things he says that really goad me (and not just because he makes life harder for himself and Rand.) It seems like a bit of personal responsibility will transform him in a similar way the Aiel did for Egwene. I don't expect him to become a straight arrow, but at least learn to be slightly tactful.

 

It put a giant smile on my face when I learned he'd be heading to Salidar. I was only slightly off when I imagined him strolling into Salidar by himself and causing a huge uproar when they learned he was immune to Saidin, but when he threw the dynamic between himself and Nyneave on its head, I couldn't have been more pleased. I did guess long before that his medallion would not stop things thrown by the power.

 

I really didn't expect the Ebou Dar storyline to stay unresolved, and I'm looking forward to that storyline.

 

I assume from Min's viewing of Berelain that she'll fall for Galad.

 

When it comes to Min and Rand, having seen it from Rand's POV, I have to agree with Min: Rand's a complete woolhead.

 

I'm glad Perrin came back for this book, but I'm back to being incredibly frustrated with Faile. I had hoped for a scene early on when Bashere and Rand met with Verin, Alanna, and the Two Rivers girls. I would've loved to have seen the result if one of the girls had let slip who Faile was with Bashere present, but alas, it didn't happen.

 

Alanna bonding Rand was a huge surprise. I can't even begin to theorize what will come of that, other than Elayne is going to be a very unhappy daughter heir

 

Loial on the run from his mother is hysterical!

 

I did expect a good deal more involvement from the forsaken this book, but I did notice at the very least some clues of the Black Ajah, such as the cats being healed in Camelyn.I had expected a few of the sisters to be around Salidar and end up rescuing Mogheiden, so I was wrong on that account. I'm very curious about what they are actually up to.

 

Jordan kept popping the Shaido up, and I kept ignoring it. There's no reason I should've been surprised by them popping up at the end. If the clue as to who killed Asmodean was in this book, I missed it. I'm starting to come up blank now, though I know I'll have more to say, so I'll leave it here for now, and post more as I think of it.

 

The Morgase storyline was intriguing. Unless there were some involvement from the forsaken, it was very interesting to see the role chance played into her eventual surrender. That situation is explosive as well.

 

Edit: Posting killed all my formatting for some reason.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Fifth of Daybreak

[Argent]

It's amazing how many things you consider important in this book, and they are either not, or they weren't memorable enough to me, so I have no idea what you are talking about

[Gamma Fiend]

Man, I wish I would have done something like this, tracking my progress and my immediate initial reactions to each book. You do seem to be blowing through the series though, can't wait til you get to the end and take a look back at your whole journey. (And then you can begin the real awesome super crazy theorizing)

 

I will say, I remember liking books 3 and 6  a lot, and they were definitely some of my favorites of the series. I mean, Lords of Chaos is just an awesome book title. And yeah, all the awesome that just happens in the mean time. Mat, of course, as I'll keep saying again and again, he just gets better and better as each book progresses, IMO.

[Topomouse]

IMHO this book has one of the best ending climax of the whole series: the battle of Dumai Well's, with troops and channelers from many different group and factions; the first "public"(and bloody) apparition of the Asha'man; the Aes Sedai that swear fealty to Rand! What more can you wish for?

 

While meeting her toh was a very redeeming point for Egwene, I still didn't like her. I actually didn't like her until the end of the series. I think that among the women of the series she is the one that incarnate the ideal Aes Sedai the most, and that's not complitely a compliment.

 

As for Gawyn, I think the most interesting fact about him (and a couple of other secondary characters) is comparing them to the main characters, in particular with the Ta'veren. If one of them had been in his place, the Pattern would have shaped the events in his favour, putting him on the right side of the conflict. But he is not Ta'veren, and he ended up making a bad decision and now he is moving against the will of the Pattern.

[GreyPilgrim]

Glad you enjoyed this volume! As I said before, it is one of if not my favorite book in the series. The ending, whole somewhat sudden as you pointed out, is definitely my favorite of the series. The writing in the Dumai's Wells scene is simply amazing. This book also starts to set up the rest of the series, which I find interesting.

As I have said before, I view the Wheel of Time as a sort of trilogy/tetralogy. As I'm sure many of us know, it was originally intended as a trilogy. Based on the structure of the story, I am fairly certain that the end of book 3, book 6, and book 14 were the original endings of each of the intended three books. (As a not-really-spoilery aside, I get the tetralogy idea from book 9, which is enough of a turning point that it could be considered a significant break, leaving 1-3, 5-6, 7-9, and 10-14 (really only three books as well) as distinct narrative sections; however, because of how muddied the story gets in those later volumes and as the series was intended as a trilogy, 1-3, 5-6, and 7-14 work best when considering sections of the series.)

Wow. That got a bit long-winded. My point is that LoC serves as a big turning point in the series, and I can see in the OP that you caught in on a lot of the set-up of later books.

Hope you continue to enjoy the series! The next 5 books (though mostly in books 8-10) are where the series really slows down, but, reading them in a short time period as you are, you should be able to enjoy the huge amount of character development that goes on from here on out. I read the books in much the same way you did, excluding the last one, and I actually quite like the later books (yes, even Crossroads!).

[Fifth of Daybreak]

It's amazing how many things you consider important in this book, and they are either not, or they weren't memorable enough to me, so I have no idea what you are talking about

 

It is possible I'm just being too cryptic due to a nasty habit I picked up from the Aes Sedai.   

[Argent]

It is possible I'm just being too cryptic due to a nasty habit I picked up from the Aes Sedai.   

 

It's possible that the last time I read LoC was in 2004

[fievelgoespostal]

Like Topomouse said, this book had the best ending climax of the series.

 

I got to the point where the Tower Aes Sedai kidnapped Rand and I was FURIOUS. It was about 12 AM on a work night and I was just gonna go to bed, but I couldnt leave on that note. I was so anxious and mad, and I thought for certain that Jordan was gonna drag it out into the next book. I ended up staying up close to 2AM that night finishing the book.

 

Such a great climax and feeling of satisfaction reading that ending.  "Kneel and swear to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt." . Man! That was so satisfying to see Rand break out of the shield and just start going ham, and the Asha'man destroying everything!!

[kaladamSB]

Like Topomouse said, this book had the best ending climax of the series.

 

I got to the point where the Tower Aes Sedai kidnapped Rand and I was FURIOUS. It was about 12 AM on a work night and I was just gonna go to bed, but I couldnt leave on that note. I was so anxious and mad, and I thought for certain that Jordan was gonna drag it out into the next book. I ended up staying up close to 2AM that night finishing the book.

 

Such a great climax and feeling of satisfaction reading that ending.  "Kneel and swear to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt." . Man! That was so satisfying to see Rand break out of the shield and just start going ham, and the Asha'man destroying everything!!

Add a little more excitement and a few extra exclamation marks and that was my reaction. When Taim said that I cheered. I love every time an Aes Sedai gets put in their place in this series, they annoy me to no end. Which one you ask? Pick one

[Fifth of Daybreak]

I did enjoy the ending. I really really did, but I think I enjoyed the Fires of Heaven's ending just a bit more. For one thing, it really completed Nynaeve's story arch for that book very well, and it was really great to see Rand struggle trying to take down Rhavin, especially since it was because of the information we learned through other characters that could have been his downfall, but I agree it wasn't as...explosive...as this ending. 

 

As far as when Rand got captured, I had more of a "serves you right reaction." It truly shocked me that he would allow the Aes Sedai to meet with him without anyone else present, and frankly, because he could be that thickheaded, he deserved exactly what he got. He didn't allow the Aes Sedai in Caemlyn to do that, so why would he allow Elaida's? It did really sink me in, however, and I finished as fast as I could after that. 

 

When Perrin called in the wolves, it brought the endings neck and neck to me. Perrin is probably the most interesting character with power to me, especially since he only has been using the most minute amount of what I believe him capable of. Finally seeing him bring them to march was my big excitement for the end, along with Rand escaping on his own. 

 

The battle really drew me in, it was definitely one of the best written scenes so far in the series, (and I enjoyed reading Sevanna's account of the battle in A Crown of Swords after writing the post up.) However, I can't say I was as thrilled at the arrival of the Asha'man as the rest of you were. 

 

After hearing throughout the books how big a threat a man channeling is, I was kind of skeptical. I mean, even at Falme, the destruction there wasn't exactly horrific, despite the huge involvement of the damane, and the trio. The scale of destruction that the Asha'man employed though, was appalling. At that moment, I completely understood exactly why everyone quivered in fear around Rand, and now around the Asha'man. I understand that, at least for the moment (I have my doubts) they are on the force for good, but the methods they employed were ghastly. One part of me couldn't help but think "is victory worth the cost?" Especially when they were only facing the Shaido, and could have used air to entrap them.

 

Mostly my thoughts were of escalation. Up to this point, it really seems that Rand has been slowly scaling up the scales of the battle. His side was the first to use Balefire. Now, he's using the One power as a weapon of far greater destructive power than we saw slung in Cairhien, between both himself, and Sammael. I know it's a bit silly to discount explosions, lightning bolts, and flash fires, but I don't equate those to being on the same scale as what was used in the battle at all. If this is what Rand is escalating to already, what will the forsaken's response be? They seemed to have been unwilling to even use Balefire yet, but if Rand keeps up like this, they don't have much of a choice. At the end of the battle, my thought was this had to be the beginning of the second shattering of the world.

 

As for the Aes Sedai, my opinion will probably not be very popular. I felt for them. I know it's partially their fault, for not communicating what happened in Caemlyn to anyone, but it's only a logical jump they'd blame the attack on Rand. Even so, when they went to confront him, they did so in a peaceful, nonviolent way, even if it was meant to intimidate and cow. Then, they show up, and fight to rescue him, but are rewarded with his spite (I also understand where Rand was coming from, but it doesn't mean I have to like it on either end.) While they might have abused his trust by bringing more Aes Sedai than he allotted, for me it comes down to this: Elaida's group used force, coercion, and torture in order to try and control Rand. While Alanna might have been very in the wrong with her actions, she acted alone, and the rest of the group continued to try and use nonviolent methods, even after being assaulted first. It's not much of a moral highground, but I would have much rather them be sent away, and seen a march of the White Tower to make those Aes Sedai "be knelt."

 

That all said, my personally preference and sense of morality doesn't a great story make. The dynamic that these events create is intriguing, and I'm sure it will continue to expand in scope and intricacy. And the ending is only a very close second, and only that, because I felt justice was better served to Mogheiden and Rhavin. Especially Rhavin. He probably made it out easy actually. There is not enough justice in life or in fiction for that kind of misogynistic scum. 

 

Edit: GreyPilgim, your long windedness has nothing on the verbosity of my loquaciousness. 

Edited September 3, 2014 by Fifth of Daybreak

[fievelgoespostal]

I did enjoy the ending. I really really did, but I think I enjoyed the Fires of Heaven's ending just a bit more. For one thing, it really completed Nynaeve's story arch for that book very well, and it was really great to see Rand struggle trying to take down Rhavin, especially since it was because of the information we learned through other characters that could have been his downfall, but I agree it wasn't as...explosive...as this ending. 

 

As far as when Rand got captured, I had more of a "serves you right reaction." It truly shocked me that he would allow the Aes Sedai to meet with him without anyone else present, and frankly, because he could be that thickheaded, he deserved exactly what he got. He didn't allow the Aes Sedai in Caemlyn to do that, so why would he allow Elaida's? It did really sink me in, however, and I finished as fast as I could after that. 

 

When Perrin called in the wolves, it brought the endings neck and neck to me. Perrin is probably the most interesting character with power to me, especially since he only has been using the most minute amount of what I believe him capable of. Finally seeing him bring them to march was my big excitement for the end, along with Rand escaping on his own. 

 

The battle really drew me in, it was definitely one of the best written scenes so far in the series, (and I enjoyed reading Sevanna's account of the battle in A Crown of Swords after writing the post up.) However, I can't say I was as thrilled at the arrival of the Asha'man as the rest of you were. 

 

After hearing throughout the books how big a threat a man channeling is, I was kind of skeptical. I mean, even at Falme, the destruction there wasn't exactly horrific, despite the huge involvement of the damane, and the trio. The scale of destruction that the Asha'man employed though, was appalling. At that moment, I completely understood exactly why everyone quivered in fear around Rand, and now around the Asha'man. I understand that, at least for the moment (I have my doubts) they are on the force for good, but the methods they employed were ghastly. One part of me couldn't help but think "is victory worth the cost?" Especially when they were only facing the Shaido, and could have used air to entrap them.

 

Mostly my thoughts were of escalation. Up to this point, it really seems that Rand has been slowly scaling up the scales of the battle. His side was the first to use Balefire. Now, he's using the One power as a weapon of far greater destructive power than we saw slung in Cairhien, between both himself, and Sammael. I know it's a bit silly to discount explosions, lightning bolts, and flash fires, but I don't equate those to being on the same scale as what was used in the battle at all. If this is what Rand is escalating to already, what will the forsaken's response be? They seemed to have been unwilling to even use Balefire yet, but if Rand keeps up like this, they don't have much of a choice. At the end of the battle, my thought was this had to be the beginning of the second shattering of the world.

 

As for the Aes Sedai, my opinion will probably not be very popular. I felt for them. I know it's partially their fault, for not communicating what happened in Caemlyn to anyone, but it's only a logical jump they'd blame the attack on Rand. Even so, when they went to confront him, they did so in a peaceful, nonviolent way, even if it was meant to intimidate and cow. Then, they show up, and fight to rescue him, but are rewarded with his spite (I also understand where Rand was coming from, but it doesn't mean I have to like it on either end.) While they might have abused his trust by bringing more Aes Sedai than he allotted, for me it comes down to this: Elaida's group used force, coercion, and torture in order to try and control Rand. While Alanna might have been very in the wrong with her actions, she acted alone, and the rest of the group continued to try and use nonviolent methods, even after being assaulted first. It's not much of a moral highground, but I would have much rather them be sent away, and seen a march of the White Tower to make those Aes Sedai "be knelt."

 

That all said, my personally preference and sense of morality doesn't a great story make. The dynamic that these events create is intriguing, and I'm sure it will continue to expand in scope and intricacy. And the ending is only a very close second, and only that, because I felt justice was better served to Mogheiden and Rhavin. Especially Rhavin. He probably made it out easy actually. There is not enough justice in life or in fiction for that kind of misogynistic scum. 

 

 

 

Rand was indeed asking for it. The problem between the two goes in circles , IMO. The Aes Sedai think so highly of themselves, that everything concerning the Dragon Reborn must be controlled and handled by them. There are very few Aes Sedai like Moiraine.

 

Rand cant send them away, because as angry and resentful of them as he is, he knows he needs them.  Better to keep them close and on a leash ( them swearing oaths to him) then to have to worry about them behind his back.

 

Fires of Heaven is one of my very favorite books.  The scene where Lanfear rips the darkfriends skin off, throws it towards Rand and company, and then inflates it in mid air was epic imo.

 

It is also a book that really starts what is one of my favorite relationships in the books : Nynaeve and Rand. Without any spoilers, she is one of the few that doesnt see Rand as the Dragon Reborn and someone to be used, but as Rand and cares about him deeply. She is someone he can trust completely

[king of nowhere]

yeah, I definitely liked egwene starting to act like an adult in this book. unfortunately, and without spoilering, there are still circumstances where she behaves like an inflated brat. In future books, I keep going through wanting to kneel to her out of pure respect, and wanting to slap her silly in the next scene.

 

"kneel, or you will be knelt" is one of the most badass lines in the story of literature. loved that.

 

as for rand and aes sedai, I feel for both, but I also think both sides deserve each other. really, this is one of the many times where the plot of the books could have easily been solved by the characters sitting down and talking their differences like adults, instead of wanting to be in charge. rand behaves like he's the most important person in the world, and the fact that he actually is is not a good enough excuse to ignore the advice of people with much more experience than him just because he don't like that advice or because he has deep issues with the death of women. and the aes sedai behave like they are the only people in the world with two neurons to rub together.

also, people letting their own expectations clouding their assesment of facts. when the aes sedai was stabbed by an aiel, they were already expecting rand to try to intimidate them, so they bought it immediately and didn't even try to get confirmation, didn't get suspicious when rand didn't understand what they were talking about. they should have reasoned that if rand wanted to send them away, he could do so very easily, and if he really wanted to stab one of them to intimidate them, denying it when confronted in person would undermine the point. by women well versed in politics, the possibility that it was a darkfriend trying to sow dissension should at least have been considered.

 

Oh, and that was the book where min starts seducing rand? wow, those were among the funniest scenes in the series, with min teasing and him being utterly clueless.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Oh, and that was the book where min starts seducing rand? wow, those were among the funniest scenes in the series, with min teasing and him being utterly clueless.

 

"Oh that Min. Always teasing. By sitting on my lap. And kissing me. And spending all her time with me. And watching me bathe. What a jokester."

[Topomouse]

yeah, I definitely liked egwene starting to act like an adult in this book. unfortunately, and without spoilering, there are still circumstances where she behaves like an inflated brat. In future books, I keep going through wanting to kneel to her out of pure respect, and wanting to slap her silly in the next scene.

 

"kneel, or you will be knelt" is one of the most badass lines in the story of literature. loved that.

 

as for rand and aes sedai, I feel for both, but I also think both sides deserve each other. really, this is one of the many times where the plot of the books could have easily been solved by the characters sitting down and talking their differences like adults, instead of wanting to be in charge.

 

The characters sitting down and taking with each other like adults would simplify the plot of many books and films, not only this one. That said, I always felt that in WoT the characters reticence to talk was justified in-universe. All the characters are well established and there are reasons for what they do, they act stupid and commit errors, but that's hat real people do. I always liked this about the books.

 

And I'm glad I'm not the only one that was often overcome by the desire to put Egwene in her place...

[king of nowhere]

Although, I reread the first min/rand chapter, and i understand rand much better. There is a point that says "It was the sheepherder and woolhead that stilled his alarm. The truth was, she felt remarkably nice sitting there. But she was Min". Basically, Rand was fooled because it was min who did it. I have a lot of physical intimacy with my best friend (well, not as much as min did with rand, but still more than most best friend relationships) and I take as normal from her behaviours that, from any other girl, would lead me to either date her on the spot, or telling her that she's not my type. Her boyfriend also don't see anything wrong with it. So, Rand was not totally dumb in that scene. Only mostly.