"Soulcasting" on Sel?

[Brassmind]

I've been rereading all of Brandon's books lately, and saw a quote in Elantris that jumped out at me:

“The Elantrians could turn stone into corn and dirt into steak.”

– Elantris, page 302, Father Omin

I believe there are mentions of (full-powered) Elantrians being able to create food and valuable items out of garbage elsewhere in the book, too. Obviously, the method used would be somewhat different, but to me the end result sounds a lot like the Soulcasting in Way of Kings.

I'm rereading Way of Kings now to see if it still sounds similar when I'm not relying on memory (and to look for other various Cosmere crumbs).

[Windrunner]

Nice catch! Brandon says that if one power appears in more then one of his worlds it tends to work the in the same way, so this transformation could very well be just like Soulcasting, except powered by Aona instead of Honor. Another example of this is Lightweaving, it works the on Yolen, but is also one of the powers of the Knights Radiant.

[Aradel]

If two shards on seperate worlds work similar powers into their systems, could they be a mimicry of powers that predate the shattering?

[fiveAM]

Nice catch! Brandon says that if one power appears in more then one of his worlds it tends to work the in the same way, so this transformation could very well be just like Soulcasting, except powered by Aona instead of Honor. Another example of this is Lightweaving, it works the on Yolen, but is also one of the powers of the Knights Radiant.

Can you point out the interview where Lightweaving as a Surge is mentioned/confirmed? I would like the read the context and stuff.

[Windrunner]

17th Shard: Tucker asks, "Will you ever write a book or series where different magic systems come into the same world?"

Brandon: Where different magic systems come into the same world. Um…I have already.

17th Shard: (confused) Published novels?

Brandon: Yes.

17th Shard: I mean like different magic systems from different worlds.

Brandon: That's what I said.

17th Shard: He's being really clever about this, Eric. (Eric says) Okay, okay, sorry.

Brandon: You're asking if I'll do it obviously.

17th Shard: (laughs)

Brandon: Where that's the focus of the novel? Someday I might. Right now I've been planning in the back of my head, but I'm not sure if I'll do it. See, here's the thing: I like all of this stuff to be behind the scenes; I don't want any reader to walk up on the shelf and pull it out and feel like they are completely lost because they have to read 27 Sanderson novels before this one makes sense. And so that would be my hesitance in ever doing that. But I already have in very subtle ways. And if were going to do a conflux book, I might just post it on my website. I don't know, I'm not sure. It depends on how popular the things are and whatnot. But, I don't think I want to do that to my casual readers.

17th Shard: Right, they wouldn't have any of the background.

Brandon: Right, they wouldn't have any of the background. Thing is, some of the magic systems do cross worlds, and have before. And that has not happened obviously; you haven't really seen it. Right now Liar of Partinel [an unpublished book —ed] and Stormlight Archives share a magic system, because with the unifying theory of magic there's a certain number of things that magic can do, and there's a lot of different ones, but when they get similar they tend to work in the same way. So Lightweaving shows up in both books. I may change that for Liar of Partinel, but it's kind of integral to that book and it's kind of integral to Stormlight Archive right now too. This is one of the reasons why I had to decide to do either Dragonsteel or Stormlight Archive as the big epic.

Some of the magic systems have been discovered on different planets, and some of them do work. A lot of them don't, but some of them do. It depends on your spiritual DNA, what people are able to do, and things like that. But, if you find a way to do illusion magic in one of my worlds it's going to work pretty much like Lightweaving, regardless of which planet you're on. If that makes sense.

Here you go, its a really long one haha, but it's better then it being under explained. I've noticed one other between magic systems similarity. Regrowth from Surgebinding, and tapping a goldmind in Feruchemy have almost identical affects. They both don't actually fix what's been damaged, like reattaching a finger, but rather make a whole new one grow. I'll get ahold of relevant quotes if anyone ones to see them.

[fiveAM]

oo~ awesome. Thanks. He does word it vague enough that I'm not sure if he means Lightweaving has already shown up in Stormlight Archive or if it's going to happen, but it is very interesting. It sounds like Lightweaving will be based around illusions so I'd guess it hasn't come up yet.

[CrazyRioter]

well Hoid was doing a bit of it apparently, when telling his story to Kaladin, with the smoke images.

[fiveAM]

well Hoid was doing a bit of it apparently, when telling his story to Kaladin, with the smoke images.

Ah~. dammit. I totally forgot about that scene. I always thought Hoid was implying Kaladin could be able to do what he did too, hence giving him the flute. Now.. hmm..

[Cuaiir]

It's likely the transformation of garbage into food on Sel was done using Aon Shao - the Aon that means Transformation or Change. It seems similar to Soulcasting, I think, because it shares the same root - Transformation.

However, Aon Shao can do some things that, as far as we've seen, aren't possible using Soulcasting. The disguises that Raoden and Galladon use are based on Aon Shao - though "there are so many things mixed in that the base Aon is almost irrelevant." (Elantris, Ch 49) If Soulcasting can make convincing disguises, I'd be surprised.

[Satsuoni]

It's likely the transformation of garbage into food on Sel was done using Aon Shao - the Aon that means Transformation or Change. It seems similar to Soulcasting, I think, because it shares the same root - Transformation.

However, Aon Shao can do some things that, as far as we've seen, aren't possible using Soulcasting. The disguises that Raoden and Galladon use are based on Aon Shao - though "there are so many things mixed in that the base Aon is almost irrelevant." (Elantris, Ch 49) If Soulcasting can make convincing disguises, I'd be surprised.

I guess that would depend on whether you can Soulcast one bone structure to another with enough skill so that you won't kill subject in the process. That won't be a disguise, though -a full, permanent transformation, like plastic surgery. Probably doable, but risky.

[spacemonkey]

That kind of transformation might be possible with modern medical knowledge, but there's no way someone on Roshar could do it.

[Satsuoni]

That kind of transformation might be possible with modern medical knowledge, but there's no way someone on Roshar could do it.

Well, there was a scene where the whole of Shallan's blood was Soulcast, repeatedly. Also, 8 types of blood were mentioned. They use antiseptics, and performs all kinds of surgery (Kaladin's father) Just how good knowledge do you think they have? Also, transforming Essences (Blood, Flesh, Bone) is easy, easier that water.

[spacemonkey]

Fair point. I guess we don't really know enough about the specifics yet to say whether or not someone could alter their appearance that way.

[CrazyRioter]

it's probably theoretically possible, but I don't think the people of Roshar know enough about the details of the human body to do it yet, and it'd be very difficult in any situation as you'd have to get all the muscles and nerves and little arteries and veins and capillaries in the right place. I suspect you wouldn't be able to do any large-scale dramatic changes because it would be too complicated even with modern medical knowledge available.

I wonder if you could change a person's fingerprints though?

[Aradel]

it's probably theoretically possible, but I don't think the people of Roshar know enough about the details of the human body to do it yet, and it'd be very difficult in any situation as you'd have to get all the muscles and nerves and little arteries and veins and capillaries in the right place. I suspect you wouldn't be able to do any large-scale dramatic changes because it would be too complicated even with modern medical knowledge available.

I wonder if you could change a person's fingerprints though?

[Aradel]

it's probably theoretically possible, but I don't think the people of Roshar know enough about the details of the human body to do it yet, and it'd be very difficult in any situation as you'd have to get all the muscles and nerves and little arteries and veins and capillaries in the right place. I suspect you wouldn't be able to do any large-scale dramatic changes because it would be too complicated even with modern medical knowledge available.

I wonder if you could change a person's fingerprints though?

Large-scale alterations can likely only be done as step-by-step processes. Similar to an actual surgery.

Edit: Well that was a weird, I post a response and in only showed the quote. Then when I edit, it posts again. Interesting hiccup.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Goradel's Nephew

[ReaderAt2046]

well Hoid was doing a bit of it apparently, when telling his story to Kaladin, with the smoke images.

He uses a similar technique in Warbreaker.

[Odium's_Shard]

Well, to me, all of this makes sense, does it not? Lets use a modern day analogy. Of course, we do not have separate world to compare, but instead different civilizations/technologies.

So, some genius discovers a very useful effect. Say, something like Regrowth. Suddenly, everyone on the world capable of performing this extremely useful effect is now doing it, because it does nothing but benefit the civilization.

However, on a different Shardworld, with different magical systems, do you think that they would never strive for/achieve a similar ability? Any time there is a useful effect that benefits a race, when another stumbles upon it, they would of course use it! All of the most useful effects will be in place in every world, like Travel, Transformation, Regrowth.

It just makes sense to me that the people would bend the magic systems in any way possible in order to stimulate these useful effects, meaning that similar effects crop up everywhere, just with different methods.