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Chaos

Simple Second Trilogy Theory

43 posts in this topic

Since the second trilogy is going to be roughly modern times, I imagine it sort of like this:

The inhabitants of the other side of Scadrial, far more advanced (though not necessarily 1000 years ahead due to various limiting factors and Rashek's likely meddling of some sort) now dominate Scadrial. Since they have almost no allomancy, they declare it unholy/illegal and start hunting down allomancers. A hidden group of allomancers (Mistborn bred by The Set?) must work to destroy the dictatorial rule of the Hyperscadrians (for lack of another name) using a combination of allomancy and feruchemy.

This comes from gut instinct, but I think there's going to be some sort of search for a mythical Mistborn/Full Feruchemist who has been living secretly compounding health for hundreds of years (making them old, but alive, since they are not likely to have Atium).

Or there could be a war between the Elendel people, who have the Three Arts (if necessary, Marsh can reintroduce Hemalurgy), and the Southern Barbarians with modern technology.

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Well that's because he was greedy using an atium Compounding trick to stay immortal for well over 1000 years.

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Well that's because he was greedy using an atium Compounding trick to stay immortal for well over 1000 years.

No, because he kept the other 90% in the Homeland, waiting for the Three Hundred to come along and burn it.

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He didn't know that the Three Hundred would come. In fact his death was pretty much part of Preservation plan because he was nuts and had control over many Hemalurgic constructs! The piece of Ruin inside of him was palpable. I'm surprised he wasn't tricked into keeping it there by Ruin so that he'd have easy access.

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Atium could easily become more available in MT2 times than in MT1. (Since TLR only spent about a tenth of what he mined into circulation).

This still aplies, though. Whatever he was doing with the atium, he certainly wasn't spending all of it.

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He was hoarding it. But that wouldn't a problem anymore, would it? Not with Harmony being in control. However it would be hard for Sazed to monitor atium, as he has the problem of not being able to see it. Tricky, that one.

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Regarding atium, from the Hero of Ages spoiler thread:

Quote from: zchance on October 15, 2008, 02:28:45 PM

I'm surprised no one else has asked but does this new world have atium? If atium was

the body of Ruin then it would seem when Sazed took up Ruins power he would have

reabsorbed all of the atium. New atium then would be bits of Sazed's new powers and

weaken him with each newly formed bead. It would seem then that if atium exists it would

be much rarer, and mean that Sazed would not be able to control this process.

I guess I am trying to understand why he would want to allow any Atium to make its way

into the hands of people or rather out of his control?

It's theoretically possible for Atium to appear in the future, but right now Sazed has no plans to

release any of it to the people. It is, effectively, now something of myth and legend.

Given what Sazed told Wax about Harmony, I personally find it unlikely that we'll see much, if any, atium. However, I'd really like to see some atium so we can know what the other atium alloys are. But I can't see how'd that even happen at the present moment. You gotta think, if the people on the southern pole have atium, Ruin would have wanted it, and I'm not sure effective those people could have protected the atium. The Lord Ruler had a lot of time to develop his gambit to protect the atium. The southern peoples wouldn't have had that benefit.

Plus, there'd be a limited supply of it, as there would be no Pits on that side of the world. (I doubt there's a separate Pit on that side.)

Guys, I really don't think those southern peoples are kandra. At all. The southern peoples were designed as a control group in case his modifications failed. If anything, the kandra were his most modified race. The kandra were developed as the subterranean creatures which could survive underground. If I were to keep a control of humans, I'd need some other way to protect them in case the kandra also failed, for whatever reason.

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Also, it's important to remember than only a Mistborn or an Atium misting can burn Atium. Given that Mistborn are now so rare as to be nonexistent, and that without access to a supply of Atium, a Seer would probably never know that they were an Allomancer at all, it's unlikely that most people would even be able to make use of Atium if they had it. At least not with Allomancy, anyway. It could still be used in Hemalurgy- although again, at this point most people don't even seem to know Hemalurgy exists, so unless that changes they might not even realize what Atium was if they found it.

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You people tend to forget that science marches on. Maybe one day they will learn how to distill the mists into solid form, regardless of Sazed's reaction. Then they will have Atium and Lerasium (in some, probably limited quantities), so lack of Mistborn won't be a problem anymore.

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I'm not certain that distilling the mists would be able to create lerasium. Just because they all come from Preservation doesn't mean the mists, the well, and lerasium are different states of the same thing. The mists don't even act like real matter, vanishing for no real reason. Some people have theorized that the three parts of Preservation on Scadrial are actually the result of three different parts of a Shard's power, lerasium being physical, the well cognitive, and the mists spiritual. If this is true then it seems to me that it would be even more unlikely that the mists could make lerasium, because then they would be fundamentally different powers, even if they all came from Preservation.

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I'm not certain that distilling the mists would be able to create lerasium. Just because they all come from Preservation doesn't mean the mists, the well, and lerasium are different states of the same thing. The mists don't even act like real matter, vanishing for no real reason. Some people have theorized that the three parts of Preservation on Scadrial are actually the result of three different parts of a Shard's power, lerasium being physical, the well cognitive, and the mists spiritual. If this is true then it seems to me that it would be even more unlikely that the mists could make lerasium, because then they would be fundamentally different powers, even if they all came from Preservation.

I'm pretty sure that the mists are a physical form of Preservation, the gaseous part, Lerasium is solid, and the magic kool-aid in the Well of Ascension is liquid.

That being said, I don't think you could exactly "distill" mists to make Lerasium- It's obviously not a normal solid-liquid-gas relationship, or the magic kool-aid and mists would be superhot molten/vaporized metal. But maybe someday on Scadrial they will discover a method of shifting Preservation's power between its physical forms, or even manipulating its cognitive and spiritual ones.

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Sazed explicitly says in the HoA epigraphs that the mists, the Well of Ascension, and Lerasium are the same thing in different states of matter, and he should know. Of course, we're talking about the body of a Shard, not a natural substance. We have yet to see a phase shift of a Shard's body. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but for anyone other than a Shard to do it would probably require a much better understanding of the fundamental principles behind the Shards and the Realms than anyone on Scadrial currently possesses.

Also, I've always assumed that the Cognitive aspect of a Shard is the mind of the holder. This provides a possible explanation as to why you can't take up a Splintered Shard; each Splinter is probably attached to a separate mind, and the conflicting consciousnesses would prevent anyone from holding the entire Shard.

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My guess for the Southern Poles is tunnels. TLR made tunnels to protect the people from the ash, and they lived in there for a thousand years. I'm not sure if he made them food, or if he found some sort of food that grows underground (or fish). But that's my random guess.

And the South Pole vs the North Pole could be a strong enough conflict to see the modern technology we expect to see in the second trilogy with only 50 years to do it. It provides the motivation to make more and more advanced things. It's just like with the Cold War. America probably wouldn't have landed on the moon if it wasn't for Russia pressuring to do the same thing.

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My guess for the Southern Poles is tunnels. TLR made tunnels to protect the people from the ash, and they lived in there for a thousand years. I'm not sure if he made them food, or if he found some sort of food that grows underground (or fish). But that's my random guess.

And the South Pole vs the North Pole could be a strong enough conflict to see the modern technology we expect to see in the second trilogy with only 50 years to do it. It provides the motivation to make more and more advanced things. It's just like with the Cold War. America probably wouldn't have landed on the moon if it wasn't for Russia pressuring to do the same thing.

You referencing the Cold War brings another point to mind: Long ranged allomantically based weapons.

Could it be possible to lob a giant hunk of metal on the end of a missile at a target, then have discreetly positioned allomancers guide it down to a single building, or even just tear it apart into horrible waves of shrapnel?

Could it be possible to allomantically charge something, so that it constantly pulls on metals around it? Or perhaps find a way to anchor a cadium/bendalloy bubble to something other than an allomancer?

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You referencing the Cold War brings another point to mind: Long ranged allomantically based weapons.

Could it be possible to lob a giant hunk of metal on the end of a missile at a target, then have discreetly positioned allomancers guide it down to a single building, or even just tear it apart into horrible waves of shrapnel?

Could it be possible to allomantically charge something, so that it constantly pulls on metals around it? Or perhaps find a way to anchor a cadium/bendalloy bubble to something other than an allomancer?

The bubbles are actually anchored to the planet, not to the allomancer, which is why Wayne can move freely inside his bubble.

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The bubbles are actually anchored to the planet, not to the allomancer, which is why Wayne can move freely inside his bubble.

Are they anchored to the surface of the planet, or its center? Since all metals are originally a part of Scadrial, is it possible to then anchor a bubble to that metal? Are they anchored laterally or vertically, or just created and held in the position the allomancer initially selected?

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To the core. But not really. Way of Kings slight spoilers!

I was the one who asked the question regarding what the bubble was tied to, and I asked it because I believe that the bubble replicates the spiritual gravitiational bond that the allomancer has. This is why bubbles stay in the same spot while the earth is spinning- because WE are staying in the same spot while the earth is moving.

The Spiritual Gravitational Bond is the bond that Szeth manipulates to 'lash' people to the ceiling, to the wall, and all around. You can read about it in the Ars Arcanum.

So when I asked the "Move with Planet or the Train?" question, this was his response:

ZAS678

I’ve got a question kind of based off of the train fight. If you have a time bubble, and you were to make it while you are on the train, would the time bubble move with the train or would it stay at the same spot relative to the planet?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Time bubbles don’t move, so it would pull you out of it, then it would vanish.

MI'CHELLE

If you were to pop up a time bubble and someone were to be stuck halfway in and halfway out, would they go splooch?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, they would be in the time bubble. The time bubbles will move with the planet but not with the train.

AUDIENCE

Yeah, I always thought it was relative to the person creating the time bubble.

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, you’ll see Wayne create one, then he’ll walk up to the perimeter, but if he leaves it, it ruins the time bubble.

ZAS678

So is that because it’s linked up to the spiritual gravitational bond between the planet?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, and you’re digging very deeply into stuff that I now can’t answer. Time bubbles have some weirdness to them that I don’t want to dig in too deeply, but yes.

So if you have a way to make artificial gravity (and a Iron Cheming may or may not count. If it did, it would probably have to be a Iron Twinborn), you could use that and a Bendalloy bubble to potentially fly in space in a bubble, if you can make the bubble large enough (or a ship small enough).

I don't know if it has its own bond with the planet, or if it copies the gravitational bond of the Allomancer, or if it is the Allomancer, if it copies it at its creation point or at its current point. Those are all questions that will have to be resolved.

But I tend to say that it doesn't matter if it is the Allomancer or the bubble that the bond is based on- most things (excluding Windrunners) will gravitationally pull on everything around it. I currently believe that it copies the Allomancer's bond though, because a bubble doesn't have any mass that we know of. And I would guess that it is in real time, because it makes more sense that way.

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So, basically, time bubbles don't do moving until a lot of complex workarounds get involved.

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