Ravens Shadow - Anthony Ryan

[kaladamSB]

Anybody here read Blood Song and Tower Lord? I couldn't put either book down. The character Vaelin and the Blood Song gift were very well done. Im usually more of a 10 book series kind of guy but this trilogy is really doing it for me. Its no cosmere, but then, what is?

[cem]

I did. Blood Song last year, Tower Lord at the release day. Absolutely loved Blood Song. But I thought Tower Lord was inferior to it in many ways. I think it suffered from having multiple PoVs. Frentis' plot was not all that interesting after a certain event. Reva was a terrible character. Not just a character I didn't like, but simply a bad character. And I hated that damnedest cliffhanger. On the flip side, Vaelin's PoVs were still amazing and Lyrna's were pretty good too.

[Tempus]

I'm with cem - many things I loved about Blood Song was changed for Tower Lord. It wasn't the same book, and it was a bit of a letdown. There were a bunch of very very promising new authors who all showed up around the same time as Anthony Ryan, and he was originally the one I thought would hold up the best of all of them, but instead he's ended up near the bottom. =(

[LSU Tiger]

I expected nothing from Blood Song as I had not seen a single review when I bought it and loved it. I expected a lot from Tower Lord and liked but didn't love it. That said I'm still looking forward to the next book and Ryan certainly hasn't slipped to the bottom of the list of authors I'm keeping an eye on.

[Argent]

I read both, Blood Song a few months ago, Tower Lord a couple of weeks ago. I must confess, I wasn't really impressed by either one - they were decent reads, and I will continue reading the series, but I've read more than a few books that were better, and not only by Brandon.

[kaladamSB]

I agree with all of you that Tower Lord was lacking compared to Blood Song, but I still enjoyed it. The end scene when Vaelin finally draws his sword to sing, o..m...g...

[Argent]

I agree with all of you that Tower Lord was lacking compared to Blood Song, but I still enjoyed it. The end scene when Vaelin finally draws his sword to sing, o..m...g...

 

See, I felt that scene was kind of... it was obvious what Anthony Ryan was doing there, keeping Vaelin from drawing his sword throughout the entire book, building up to this moment so he can show (again) how incredible of a swordsman he is. And because of how obvious that was, the build-up didn't work for me, I expected a scene towards the end where he turns unstoppable. 

[kaladamSB]

See, I felt that scene was kind of... it was obvious what Anthony Ryan was doing there, keeping Vaelin from drawing his sword throughout the entire book, building up to this moment so he can show (again) how incredible of a swordsman he is. And because of how obvious that was, the build-up didn't work for me, I expected a scene towards the end where he turns unstoppable.

Wasn't that what it was though? Nobody could stop him when the blood song was as strong as it was. His downfall was singing too much, which I did actually find kind of lame. What happened to him after I wasn't a huge fan of either, but I feel it will get fixed in book 3

[Argent]

But we had already established that he was a total badass when the he was singing (that's what his duel against the Shield was all about), and we had already established that using the Dark has its consequences - the stronger the gift, the greater the price; and we were told a few times that the Blood Song is a pretty powerful gift. So that scene where Vaelin finally fights doesn't serve any purpose to me, other than to maybe create a cinematic image of him wading through the Volasian (?) army. Which, okay, it's kind of cinematic, but I can't justify it as a climax. 

 

Lyrna was a much more interesting character. In fact, I can hardly think of a complaint to voice against her.

 

Frentis (whose name annoys me, because I keep thinking Frentis > 'prentice > apprentice...) was alright, I guess, but the fact that he practically never spoke during the first half of his arc was irritating. Yeah, we got to see some world with him, we got to see parts of the enemy's plan, but his journey with whatshername felt too much like a scene where the Villain just reveals his plans to the Hero because he thinks the game is his. If you've lived for however long that woman has been alive, you should've picked up some caution along the way. Instead she (kind of) falls in love. With a man she doesn't really know because he doesn't tell her anything and he also keeps his more interesting thoughts private (as in, he doesn't think them at all). I could justify taking Frentis on her little field trip, he did look the perfect tool for the job - theoretically perfectly obedient and really skilled, - but revealing so much to him... eh.

[kaladamSB]

I do agree with everything you've said about Frentis. His story had the feel of not really going anywhere past the point with the dead Hope's wife. I found the end of his story very anti climactic as well.

For me, the cool cinematic fight with Vaelin at the end was awesome. I enjoy fight scenes in novels, they might even be my favorite parts in a lot of the stories I have read. For example, Kaladin vs Szeth, Kvothe when he seeks vengeance on the fake Edema Ruh, or Gorst vs Whirrun from The Heroes. Not to mention any scene with the Bloody Nine. I feel like it just comes down to preference, and it did it for me.

[Argent]

Don't get me wrong, cinematic scenes are absolutely wonderful, and I believe every book that has any sort of action should also have one or two majestic cinematic... displays of skill, because it doesn't have to be fighting. But said scenes should also serve a storytelling purpose. Kaladin vs. Szeth obviously advanced the plot. Kvothe vs. the fake troupers revealed what kind of a man he is (loyal to and protective of the Ruh traditions) and has become (very dangerous and skilled). I don't know about Gorst vs. Whirrun, haven't read (seen?) The Heroes. Vaelin vs. the Valorians, though - no purpose. He had plot before the fight (though not much), and he had plot after the fight (both in limbo and after, having found out he has lost the blood song), but the fight itself was there only because he had to get from one end of the army to the other, and no peaceful resolution made sense. The entire sequence could've been replaced by "And Vaelin fought his way through the army, bleeding like a pig from all the blood singing he had just done" and the story would've easily held together.

[kaladamSB]

The Heroes is by Joe Abercrombie. Its a 3 day battle told from both sides in First Law universe.

I really do hear what you're saying Argent, but getting reminded of how bad chull someone is is never a bad idea in my humble opinion. Plus he had to use the Blood Song to the point of death so The One Who Waits could steal the blood song from him. So in a way, it was totally plot appropriate. (Yes im stretching but a man can dream right?)

Good talking with you though, can't wait to discuss book 3. I tweeted Anthony Ryan and he said book 3 is for sure the end, so hopefully he saved best for last, and Tower Lord was the classic mid series slump. Until next time Argent

[Argent]

Hopefully.

[PeterAhlstrom]

I tried to read the first book and just could not get past the comma splices, they were too distracting.

 

It's possible I could handle it better as an audiobook, where that wouldn't be an issue.

Edited August 6, 2014 by PeterAhlstrom

[Hood]

I read Blood Song, it was a decent book. I found it much like The Kingkiller Chronicles book 1. But I didn't find it all amazing. I agree with Argent here.

 

Now I am reading the second book. I will give my reviews later.

[ChaseGiants]

This thread was tricky to read as I am currently on part 2 of tower lord but I must say...I LOVE this series so far! Tower lord hasn't suffered at all from a typical slump or the switch to multiple pov's in my opinion. It is very good. I rank it higher than Rothfuss. Can't wait for Queen of Fire and whatever fantasy project Ryan has next!

[Argent]

This thread was tricky to read as I am currently on part 2 of tower lord but I must say...I LOVE this series so far! Tower lord hasn't suffered at all from a typical slump or the switch to multiple pov's in my opinion. It is very good. I rank it higher than Rothfuss. Can't wait for Queen of Fire and whatever fantasy project Ryan has next!

 

To each their own, I guess. 

 

Go finish the book, don't dance around spoilers

[traceria]

See, while I didn't like it as much as Blood Song, I thought it a fine middle-of-the-trilogy book.  What I really want to know is thoughts on the end.  When my husband finished the audiobook, which was after I did, he made a comment that made me reply, "Wait.  Did we read [listen] to the same book? That's not how I interpreted the final scene."

[ChaseGiants]

What I really want to know is thoughts on the end. When my husband finished the audiobook, which was after I did, he made a comment that made me reply, "Wait. Did we read [listen] to the same book? That's not how I interpreted the final scene."

I have run into this on a reddit thread as well.

I thought the person with the rope (who some say is Weaver) turned to hurt or kill or capture Lyrna after strangling the other guy. But some say if it was Weaver that perhaps he was "heal hugging" her.

How did you and your husband interpret it?

Also, to the discussion further up, after finishing the book I stand by my assessment. It seems maybe the disagreement lies in whether or not the story should be read as still Vaelin's story or if it has grown to be a larger story about the Realm and Empire, in which Vaelin is still an integral player--which is my estimation. An epic fantasy story has to grow (thus to be epic) as it goes on, and one way to accomplish that is to zoom out from the initial story of the one protagonist. I think Ryan executed this superbly. Absolutely cannot wait for book 3.

Edited November 19, 2014 by ChaseGiants

[traceria]

ChaseGiant, just to be safe, you may want to put your first comment inside a spoiler.  It would look like this but without the asterisks: [spoiler*] text [/spoiler*].

 

And now, to answer your question. 

I thought it was the healing and he thought she was being attacked by a second person and was facing death.  I thought it was Weaver because it was set up that he was following along for a reason, and yet it was also noted that he hadn't done anything yet.  It interpreted it as he was waiting for the right moment, and that was the right moment for him to use his skill.  My husband things she's a goner.

 

I'm also looking forward to book 3 and will probably reread (i.e. re-listen) to them both right before it comes out. 

[ChaseGiants]

Added spoiler tags to the first comment, thanks! And I see what you mean about the end. Kinda hard to tell since we don't know all that much about dude. I also plan to reread both before QoF so maybe I will have a more confident position then. So excited for the conclusion.

[traceria]

Added spoiler tags to the first comment, thanks! And I see what you mean about the end. Kinda hard to tell since we don't know all that much about dude. I also plan to reread both before QoF so maybe I will have a more confident position then. So excited for the conclusion.

Same here!  I don't stalk many author's webpages, so don't know the latest.  Do you know when he's aiming to have the third installment released?

[cem]

ChaseGiant, just to be safe, you may want to put your first comment inside a spoiler.  It would look like this but without the asterisks: [spoiler*] text [/spoiler*].

 

And now, to answer your question. 

I thought it was the healing and he thought she was being attacked by a second person and was facing death.  I thought it was Weaver because it was set up that he was following along for a reason, and yet it was also noted that he hadn't done anything yet.  It interpreted it as he was waiting for the right moment, and that was the right moment for him to use his skill.  My husband things she's a goner.

 

I'm also looking forward to book 3 and will probably reread (i.e. re-listen) to them both right before it comes out. 

Yeah, no way your husband is right.

Add to your arguments Weaver practically spent the whole book trying to find somebody to heal, and was disappointed when he didn't. That was definitely foreshadowing. Also, it would make no sense for him to save her from Witch's Bastard first, then kill her himself. Also, the third book is named after her.

 

 

Same here!  I don't stalk many author's webpages, so don't know the latest.  Do you know when he's aiming to have the third installment released?

Ryan actually finished Queen of Fire before Tower Lord was published, so it's up to the publisher and their marketing people. He also said the next book would come out in July 2015 in an interview, but as I understand that's not exactly a definitive date at this point.

[traceria]

Yeah, no way your husband is right.

Add to your arguments Weaver practically spent the whole book trying to find somebody to heal, and was disappointed when he didn't. That was definitely foreshadowing. Also, it would make no sense for him to save her from Witch's Bastard first, then kill her himself. Also, the third book is named after her.

 

 

Ryan actually finished Queen of Fire before Tower Lord was published, so it's up to the publisher and their marketing people. He also said the next book would come out in July 2015 in an interview, but as I understand that's not exactly a definitive date at this point.

Ooo, thanks for all the juicy tidbits!  I will definitely fill him in on the title and agree with your reasoning about Weaver.

[ChaseGiants]

Then do the two of you not find the ending a weird note to end on? It just seems plainly set up as a cliffhanger to me (and no response to the contrary by Ryan when people say stuff to him about "that cliffhanger") and if he was doing what you two think he was, what kind of cliffhanger is that?? Your reasoning seems sound, just a weird result. I'm still on the fence.