Reactions to The Shadow Rising

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Random thing I learned, I read way faster on ebook than regular. I can't contribute it all to that, since this past month was crazy busy for me, but considering there was about a week between the other books and about a month between this one, I have to conclude that ebooks are a faster read for me.

 

Now that the random fun fact is out of the way, on to the book!

 

The first thing I want to say is I noticed the pacing problems in this book more than the other three. And by noticed, I mean I flat out wanted to throw the book at a wall in random placed because I was so tired of waiting for things to happen. Then, when the plot did finally decide to show up, it was only around for a few pages or so. It didn't ruin the read for me, but this was probably my least favorite of the books so far, as it felt more like a chore to read at points than it did recreation. 

 

One of my big problems up to this point has to be the female characters. We touched on this in my previous thread, but I want to expand on it here. Most to all of the female characters in the books so far do not seem believable to me. They seem more like caricatures of women rather than fully developed characters.

 

I had extremely high hopes for Elaida, but that was quickly squashed during her rebellion. She spent her whole life attaching herself to Andor in order to help with the final battle, then, when it falls apart, she just walks away to completely undermine the Aes Sedai, in order to grab power for herself? What? So because you know that the final battle is coming, you decide to destroy half of your number because you didn't like the leadership? Maybe, just maybe, if she didn't know that Rand was the dragon but figured out he could channel I could understand this, but it seems too egregious a mistake when you know the biggest threat to the world is just around the corner. Especially considering how many greens they take out, who are supposed to be prepared for battle (that confuses me because they should have put up more of a fight, and they seem to be a more important Ajah for when the end comes.)  I guess if you're going to make Elaida into a villain that outright and vanilla, at least have the decency to give her the Snidely Whiplash mustache. 

 

Along those lines, are all the Aes Sedai just carbon copies of each other? This frustrated me a great deal as well. Sure, they might have similar personality types that are drawn to those Ajahs, but they all can't be clones of each other. I'd like to meet a Red I can relate with, or at least have a Red whose reason for hating men is shown through character development. And where are the Grey Ajah at? I didn't even know that was their color until I got frustrated and looked it up online. 

 

Suane actually is much more interesting to me now that she's been stilled, and I'm hoping to see some great character development from her in the next few books. I was also highly satisfied to see I was right about her being stilled, and I still expect her to rally the Aes Sedai to her. But while I'm on the subject of Suan, what in Kelek's tongue was she thinking?!?!  After reading through the book and learning about the different societies of channeling women, and thinking about her sending Egwene, Elayne, and Nyneave off to hunt the Black Ajah, I can't help but feel like she did deserve to lose the stole. Sending those three off could very well endanger everything the tower has worked for, and the little amount of trust that they have in the world. Especially considering their little display in front of Bornhold, and Verin's reaction, why would you send them off into the world to cause trouble, whatever results they bring?  

 

Min was one of the few exceptions to my frustration with female characters, but the fact that she's mostly impotent and driven along still leaves me dissatisfied.

 

Egwene. The most satisfying moment in the book for me was her having to braid her hair.  Everything she thinks about Rand's head being too big and all her frustrations with him all seem to be her projecting her own actions onto him. Having the luxury of getting both their points of view shows Egwene to be the immature little girl that the braids paint her to be. This disappoints me because she seemed to be such a promising character while reading Eye of the World.

 

I still like Elayne. She seems to at least try to be a force for good and decency, and fairly well developed. She also seems to drive the story forward the least though. 

 

I won't say that Nyneave isn't well developed. All I will say on her is that she reminds me of my older sister, if my older sister didn't listen to reason, was crazy with rage most of the time, and if my sister wasn't right about just about everything. If anyone needed to be taught how much of a child she is, it's Nynaeve. 

 

Faile seemed to me that she was an entirely different person than she was last book. I was very excited for her, but she just frustrated me throughout most of the book. Not that I don't understand where she was coming from, not even that I don't like her, or think she's underdeveloped. I guess I'm just getting a little tired of all the internal squabbling and politics withing the protagonists. Can anybody even try to just get along?

 

Egeanin really excites me. The inner turmoil she's having about her cultural upbringing is fascinating, and she's definitely humanized the Seanchan for me, at least a little.

 

Perrin's story was very interesting, but I felt like it was very much lacking after the Whitecloaks came into the defenses. That seemed extraneous, and there's no real point to having that happen. They didn't contribute to the defenses much, and at the end of the conflict, absolutely nothing had changed. For all I care, the Whitecloaks could have never come to the Two Rivers, and it could've just been Ordeith, or Fain, or Mordeth, whatever you want to call him (I still like MorFain, but I'm a fan of puns) without any of the Whitecloaks. 

 

Call me crazy, but between Verin and Alanna, I trust Alanna. There's still something about Verin that just makes me very suspicious. Though I'm curious to see where Verin's talens lie after her comment about healing  and being skilled in another area. That was an offhand comment that seemed very important to me. 

 

Rand has finally come around, and is now my favorite character. Although I still think he's an idiot for the way he's treating Moiraine. Ok, maybe not an idiot. I finally understand where they are coming from not trusting Aes Sedai, but Moiraine is the exception to that rule. She's more than proven herself, and he could at least listen to her advice, even if he doesn't take it. 

 

LAN KEEPS CRACKING JOKES! STOP PROVING ME WRONG!

 

Mat makes me smile. Nuf said. 

 

I loved everything about the Aiel, and was glad to learn more about them and their culture. I was also fascinated by their origin. That revelation leads me to believe that the Tinkers are the "remnant of a remnant" that Rand is going to not destroy of the Aiel.

 

Geeze, now that I'm finally writing this, I've forgotten all of the predictions I had while reading through. I certainly didn't see the ending coming. I was dead wrong about the 'lines' coming out of the forsaken. I had thought that was their connection to the true source. It will be interesting to see how Rand interacts with his new teacher.

 

If I think of anything I've left out I'll post it on the comments. I think I lost a lot of my thoughts because I went on vacation last week, and was having so much fun I just plain forgot!

 

 

[Bloodfalcon]

I haven't read your other threads; this is your first WoT read? I'll assume it is based on some of the sentences.

The Shadow Rising was my least favorite book on my first read through (back when there were only 11 books), and on my second read through, it was my absolute favorite out of those original 11. I had a lot of the same complaints as you the first time around. Female characters seem to be lumped under the category of "Women - which act like [this]" and that can be really frustrating. But don't give up on them. Throughout the series most of them experience a significant change in behavior, at least for a while. Egwene used to bug me to no end, but by book 13 Egwene was one of my favorites. As the characters fall more into their actual roles, you'll find they were kind of just waiting for that moment to really be their true personality. 

Keep it up though! I'm going to watch out for these threads now that I know someone is posting reactions. WoT is my favorite series, so I love seeing people's reactions whether they enjoy it or not. 

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Yup, this is my first time through. Here's my other threads so you don't have to go searching for them:

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/8820-my-reactions-to-eye-of-the-world/

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/9810-the-great-hunt/

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/12551-reactions-to-the-dragon-reborn/

[Argent]

I am sad to say that your issues with the Aes Sedai won't go away. It gets a little better later on, you will eventually get to meet unique Aes Sedai from most of the Ajahs (e.g. you'll see a Green, and she will feel like a real character, while still possessing the traits that determine a Green; the rest of her Ajah will still be flat though). Suane has an interesting arc ahead of her. And I am with you on Elaida - I don't know what Jordan was trying to do with her, but it backfired. Oh, and Verin is a weird one - though whether that's because she is Brown, has an off personality, or something else will be up to you to decide and / or find out.

[Bloodfalcon]

I am sad to say that your issues with the Aes Sedai won't go away. It gets a little better later on, you will eventually get to meet unique Aes Sedai from most of the Ajahs (e.g. you'll see a Green, and she will feel like a real character, while still possessing the traits that determine a Green; the rest of her Ajah will still be flat though). Suane has an interesting arc ahead of her. And I am with you on Elaida - I don't know what Jordan was trying to do with her, but it backfired. Oh, and Verin is a weird one - though whether that's because she is Brown, has an off personality, or something else will be up to you to decide and / or find out.

 

Yeah I forgot to mention that. Everyone who even remotely considers themselves an Aes Sedai is irritating in some capacity, and most are as plain as a brown (ajah) paper bag.

[Voidus]

I actually found book 4 to be one of my favourites the first time I read it, most of the issues you have to get better, Egwene in my opinion never gets better and if anything the Aes Sedai in general get worse, but I choose to believe this was RJ's intention, to humanize them by showing their faults.

[Kurkistan]

I actually found book 4 to be one of my favourites the first time I read it, most of the issues you have to get better, Egwene in my opinion never gets better and if anything the Aes Sedai in general get worse, but I choose to believe this was RJ's intention, to humanize them by showing their faults.

 

If this is RJ "humanizing by showing faults", then I imagine that his idea of a Persian flaw is to throw the rug into a wood-chipper.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Bloodfalcon]

The biggest fault being terrible decision making time after time. I won't get too deep into the constant complaint on WHY THE HECK ALL OF THESE "FRIENDS" DON'T EVER TALK TO EACH OTHER, which is the worst decision out there, but after the ending of the Dragon Reborn, I couldn't stand that the characters pretty much ignore what happened in order to handle their personal priorities.
 

"Oh hey, we are all certain that this one dude is going to save the world and reshape everything? Cool, cool.... let's all go do something else. I'm going to go chase a couple evil women around the world, then I have to join this club on the other side of the continent even though they are a total wreck. For some reason you need to go alone to save your home from what is possibly the single greatest mass of evil in our territory, right? Ok, BREAK!"

-Paraphrased from the Shadow Rising

I like how the story goes, don't get me wrong, but don't you think someone would have considered that there are more important things going on and they should stay together? The first time I read through it really irked me. 
 

[Voidus]

If this is RJ "humanizing by showing faults", then I imagine that his idea of a Persian flaw is to throw the rug into a wood-chipper.

Haha, yeah but I just love RJ's writting so much and yet really really hate the Aes Sedai in the later novels so I just need to try to justify it.

 

 

 

The biggest fault being terrible decision making time after time. I won't get too deep into the constant complaint on WHY THE HECK ALL OF THESE "FRIENDS" DON'T EVER TALK TO EACH OTHER

I never understood that complaint, they're all teenagers, when do teenagers ever confide about their truly deep dark secrets to each other, one's essentially guaranteed to go insane, another has yellow eyes and thinks he already is insane and Mat is just, well Mat.

[king of nowhere]

Well, I think tsr was my favourite of the original 11.

The first thing I want to say is I noticed the pacing problems in this book more than the other three. And by noticed, I mean I flat out wanted to throw the book at a wall in random placed because I was so tired of waiting for things to happen. Then, when the plot did finally decide to show up, it was only around for a few pages or so. It didn't ruin the read for me, but this was probably my least favorite of the books so far, as it felt more like a chore to read at points than it did recreation.

bad news for you. the pacing keeps like that for several books. books 6 to 10 are the worst, and most people consider them the worst of the series. me, Iìve always enjoied the ride, and even if the plot felt like it was going nowhere, i still liked seeing the worls and the characters.

One of my big problems up to this point has to be the female characters.

yeah, quite a common criticism. but it's not like men are much different, after all.

Along those lines, are all the Aes Sedai just carbon copies of each other? This frustrated me a great deal as well. Sure, they might have similar personality types that are drawn to those Ajahs, but they all can't be clones of each other. I'd like to meet a Red I can relate with, or at least have a Red whose reason for hating men is shown through character development. And where are the Grey Ajah at? I didn't even know that was their color until I got frustrated and looked it up online.

aes sedai have quite different personalities; however, they all behave according to the ideal of aes sedai, and so they seem carbon copies of each others until you get to know them better. once you see them individually (moiraine, siuan, verin, and i don't remember who else was already characterized by that time) you see that they are very different people. just as all foreigners from a country look the same stereotype, until you get to know them individually.

But while I'm on the subject of Suan, what in Kelek's tongue was she thinking?!?!  about her sending Egwene, Elayne, and Nyneave off to hunt the Black Ajah [...]

well, her rationale for it was that they were the only 3 channelers in the tower she was sure were not black ajah. she states so somewhere. not sure it was a good idea, but at least it makes sense

The biggest fault being terrible decision making time after time. I won't get too deep into the constant complaint on WHY THE HECK ALL OF THESE "FRIENDS" DON'T EVER TALK TO EACH OTHER, which is the worst decision out there, but after the ending of the Dragon Reborn, I couldn't stand that the characters pretty much ignore what happened in order to handle their personal priorities

Well, yes. this is a common comment to the wheel of time. all the protagonists are acting like a bunch of kids. but, hey, that's what most of them are, after all. if i remember correctly, at the beginning rand is 18, egwene is 16. that's what the pattern gets from picking such people to save the world. if only, onstead of rand mat and perrin, the pattern had picked ther respective fathers to be the heroes, the saga would have ended in a couple books.

Anyway, if you look at the real world, it's full of bad decisions and powerful people acting like children (also less powerful people act like children plenty of times, but they don''t cause the same large scale damage). for example, gengis kahn had lots of respect for china, and tried to get good diplomatic relations, but he decided to invade it after the chinese emperor had his ambassador killed because he didn't like the idea of "a savage in a tent" daring to address him. or serbia refusing to offer diplomatic excuses after the archduke was assassinated in their country, triggering the first world war; they had absolutely no reason for not offering excuses, except that it made them feel good to stand up to the austroungarian empire, and they felt safe in their defensive alliances.

As for the whole "people scheming in the face of imminent danger", even when rome was invaded by the barbarians, any general with an army tried to conquer the throne for himself.

even in recent times, about not talking to each other: usa and russia never wanted to nuke each other, and both would have been content to stay in their emisphere. but they didn't trust each other, hence the cold war, the weapons race, etc.

so, it's quite discomforting to admit, but wot is probably more realistic than most books in that regard.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Well, I think tsr was my favourite of the original 11.

bad news for you. the pacing keeps like that for several books. books 6 to 10 are the worst, and most people consider them the worst of the series. me, Iìve always enjoied the ride, and even if the plot felt like it was going nowhere, i still liked seeing the worls and the characters.

yeah, quite a common criticism. but it's not like men are much different, after all.

aes sedai have quite different personalities; however, they all behave according to the ideal of aes sedai, and so they seem carbon copies of each others until you get to know them better. once you see them individually (moiraine, siuan, verin, and i don't remember who else was already characterized by that time) you see that they are very different people. just as all foreigners from a country look the same stereotype, until you get to know them individually.

well, her rationale for it was that they were the only 3 channelers in the tower she was sure were not black ajah. she states so somewhere. not sure it was a good idea, but at least it makes sense

Well, yes. this is a common comment to the wheel of time. all the protagonists are acting like a bunch of kids. but, hey, that's what most of them are, after all. if i remember correctly, at the beginning rand is 18, egwene is 16. that's what the pattern gets from picking such people to save the world. if only, onstead of rand mat and perrin, the pattern had picked ther respective fathers to be the heroes, the saga would have ended in a couple books.

Anyway, if you look at the real world, it's full of bad decisions and powerful people acting like children (also less powerful people act like children plenty of times, but they don''t cause the same large scale damage). for example, gengis kahn had lots of respect for china, and tried to get good diplomatic relations, but he decided to invade it after the chinese emperor had his ambassador killed because he didn't like the idea of "a savage in a tent" daring to address him. or serbia refusing to offer diplomatic excuses after the archduke was assassinated in their country, triggering the first world war; they had absolutely no reason for not offering excuses, except that it made them feel good to stand up to the austroungarian empire, and they felt safe in their defensive alliances.

As for the whole "people scheming in the face of imminent danger", even when rome was invaded by the barbarians, any general with an army tried to conquer the throne for himself.

even in recent times, about not talking to each other: usa and russia never wanted to nuke each other, and both would have been content to stay in their emisphere. but they didn't trust each other, hence the cold war, the weapons race, etc.

so, it's quite discomforting to admit, but wot is probably more realistic than most books in that regard.

 

 

I didn't quite make the point I was trying to clear. My problem isn't that ALL Aes Sedai are the same (though that's what my original phrasing seems to point to, sorry about that,) but rather that all the Aes Sedai of the same Ajah might as well have the same name for how different they are portrayed. I felt like the Wise Ones were much better characters. They are definitely all under the same allegiance, and share traits as they should, being so close in authority and experience, but they also all have individual distinct personalities that govern the way they interact and think. 

 

Her rationale was more than just that. It seemed to be more of a PR cover up than an attempt to actually catch the Blacks. It reminded me of 'Wizard of Oz.'  An outsider who is expendable gets sent on a suicide mission on the off chance they might succeed. I mean, they were sent without even being given the knowledge that should they get captured they can be turned to the shadow against their will. Two women (I don't count Elayne, she was more or less dragged into it, another incident I fault Suan for, she shouldn't allow the Daughter Heir of Andor to go hunting Black Ajah, for the sake of the alliance alone,) who aren't trained, one of which has a block on her ability to channel, against 13 experienced Aes Sedai. Oh, that's the exact number of women who can link their power together unaided. It just seems more like a suicide run. There's not even an external thermal exhaust port that they can shoot a proton torpedo into to bring down the whole Death Star...(ok so it's not a perfect metaphor.)

 

I definitely don't want to imply that their distrust of each other is not realistic, I just feel like it's played up way to much and gets in the way of the story telling. I feel like the in-fighting betwen the forsaken has been much better constructed, and really adds into the experience of the story. 

 

 

One of the things I loved about the book was the way the Aviendha situation backfired. They didn't learn a single scrap of information, but Rand certainly learned a lot from her about the Wise Ones' plans.  Aviendha herself is a fantastic character, and her interactions with Rand were probably the Highlight of the book for me. 

 

 

Also, I just want to add that I had really expected Geofram Bornhold to have survived, but after his absence from this book, I have to conclude that's not likely. His son has really disappointed me as a character, while Geofram had been one of my favorite side characters. 

[Argent]

I felt like the Wise Ones were much better characters. They are definitely all under the same allegiance, and share traits as they should, being so close in authority and experience, but they also all have individual distinct personalities that govern the way they interact and think.  

 

In Jordan's defense, they are also much fewer in numbers. You've see, what, four of them? Five? Off the top of my head I can think of Amys, Sorilea, Bair (?), something with M, and I think I am forgetting one. Much easier to create half a dozen distinct characters than to come up with dozens, if not hundreds of Aes Sedai, and to make sure they are all unique enough to feel like individual characters, and similar enough when they share an Ajah to show that Ajah's "personality." 

 

But I am mostly playing the devil's advocate here. I wish the Aes Sedai were handled better too.

[Bloodfalcon]

I never understood that complaint, they're all teenagers, when do teenagers ever confide about their truly deep dark secrets to each other, one's essentially guaranteed to go insane, another has yellow eyes and thinks he already is insane and Mat is just, well Mat.

 

Well, yes. this is a common comment to the wheel of time. all the protagonists are acting like a bunch of kids. but, hey, that's what most of them are, after all. if i remember correctly, at the beginning rand is 18, egwene is 16. that's what the pattern gets from picking such people to save the world. if only, onstead of rand mat and perrin, the pattern had picked ther respective fathers to be the heroes, the saga would have ended in a couple books.

Anyway, if you look at the real world, it's full of bad decisions and powerful people acting like children (also less powerful people act like children plenty of times, but they don''t cause the same large scale damage). for example, gengis kahn had lots of respect for china, and tried to get good diplomatic relations, but he decided to invade it after the chinese emperor had his ambassador killed because he didn't like the idea of "a savage in a tent" daring to address him. or serbia refusing to offer diplomatic excuses after the archduke was assassinated in their country, triggering the first world war; they had absolutely no reason for not offering excuses, except that it made them feel good to stand up to the austroungarian empire, and they felt safe in their defensive alliances.

You're both right. In that book it is a little more understandable as they are all just starting to develop some of that stuff, but in the later books there is no justifying it. There is a certain amount of trust that should be built up after years and years of fighting for the same cause, being best friends, being romantically involved, etc. You'd just never know they weren't strangers if you hadn't read the other books. I mean come on, I think you can confide in the dude whose got your life and the lives of all others in his hands. He'd probably be a lot less erratic if he felt like he had any sort of companionship that wasn't a constant political chore, amirite? 

[Voidus]

That's why I always liked Min so much, she and Rand actually talk from time to time and I really feel like they're the only characters (Particularly characters of opposite genders) who do communicate, given that any of the boys interacting with any of the girls usually follows exactly the same script
"I'm here to help"
"Ugh men, I don't need help"
"Ugh girls, I'll never understand them, not like those other two main male protagonists"

[Bloodfalcon]

That's why I always liked Min so much, she and Rand actually talk from time to time and I really feel like they're the only characters (Particularly characters of opposite genders) who do communicate, given that any of the boys interacting with any of the girls usually follows exactly the same script

"I'm here to help"

"Ugh men, I don't need help"

"Ugh girls, I'll never understand them, not like those other two main male protagonists"

Hahaha, that is exactly it. And someone in the room is wearing "stout Two Rivers woolens."

[Topomouse]

That's why I always liked Min so much, she and Rand actually talk from time to time and I really feel like they're the only characters (Particularly characters of opposite genders) who do communicate, given that any of the boys interacting with any of the girls usually follows exactly the same script

"I'm here to help"

"Ugh men, I don't need help"

"Ugh girls, I'll never understand them, not like those other two main male protagonists"

That's so true.

Though, there is another character who actually shared information, at least some of it. And, most important, was the only one who didn't think that the opposite gender is composed of incomprehensible aliens. Unfortunately to talk about her now would be spoiler for EMTrevor, even though she has already appeared a couple of times.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

That's why I always liked Min so much, she and Rand actually talk from time to time and I really feel like they're the only characters (Particularly characters of opposite genders) who do communicate, given that any of the boys interacting with any of the girls usually follows exactly the same script

"I'm here to help"

"Ugh men, I don't need help"

"Ugh girls, I'll never understand them, not like those other two main male protagonists"

 

Haha that sums things up so far. 

 

That's so true.

Though, there is another character who actually shared information, at least some of it. And, most important, was the only one who didn't think that the opposite gender is composed of incomprehensible aliens. Unfortunately to talk about her now would be spoiler for EMTrevor, even though she has already appeared a couple of times.

 

I'm assuming you mean Berelain on this one (not to try and encourage spoilers, but predictions are fun when you guys get to snicker when I get things very wrong. But spoilers will happen and I take full responsibility for what anyone says on here and spoils things for me. I did come to you guys.   )

 

 

I just finished up my audio book reread on The Shadow Rising, and I want to say that it definitely changed my opinions on a few things. The first, namely being the more negative nature of my original post. I was quick to critique, but it really wasn't as bad as I made it out to be in my head. The audio rereads have been a great experience for me in the Wheel of Time so far. I think that listening to it has been a much better experience for the story, and since I usually pop on an audio book when I'm doing things or driving, it was actually very nice to have the extraneous portions of the book.

 

I think I was so quick to judge because the characters frustrate me so much. Yes, there are a few flaws in some of them, but overall, it was a great book. I won't say it's my least favorite of the four anymore. It was one of the less enjoyable reads for me, but the audio book is definitely my favorite. (On that note, I want to say how incredily strange it is to have listened to Kate Reading and Michael Kramer read through The Stormlight Archives 2 times through first. I barely recognized his voice when listening to Eye of the World. It's almost a sort of time Travel. Like watching new Doctor Who first, then watching classic. Well actually, my whole Doctor Who viewing in terms of chronology was a bit...wibbly wobbly.)

 

I'm glad there is a way to break through shields. I was hoping that wasn't going to be a "haha, the battle is over" deal. If I'm not mistaken, a shield from the opposite gender is much more effective than one from the same power source. 

 

One thing that still confuses me, did Mat actually die? If it gets explained later, don't answer that, but if this is just a hanging unexplained phenomenom, I'd like to just put the question out of my mind. That whole scene was one of my favorites. Especially after learning a little bit about them later on in Perrin's storyline. Mat really is his own worst enemy, and somehow he ends up better off for it!

 

I was also unnecessarily harsh on Faile. I don't think I really understood the whole Aiel undertext between Gual and Chiad, especially with the talk of Gai'shain.  The whole "it usually leads to marriage" factoid went over my head the whole time. During the reread, Faile just cracks me up. Other than the Whitecloaks, who I still feel were extraneous, Perrin's story was absolutely wonderful. (When I mentioned wanting to throw the book, it was because it switched away from Perrin's story. I think it was any time it went to Tanchico. )

 

Rand's story arch was also very compelling the second time through. There's a lot of foreshadowing in there that I missed, namely Mat being shaken down for information without him ever realizing it. (You really need to trust at least one person Rand!) Aviendha and Rand make me smile. I think Rand is the most clueless of the three when it comes to women, and he's the only one who has real reason to wish for the other two's understanding of women.

 

A few predictions that have either come into my head or were remembered:

 

Rand's half brother is alive, possibly a new dreadlord, or at least will become one. He's the one that killed Rand's father. 

 

Verin has some sort of vision or viewing ability, maybe one similar to Min's that she has kept quiet all these years. I find it hard to believe she learned all this from books. I think that's why she's so attached to the ta'veren. They produce so many of the viewings that she's able to connect them to events as they happen, and give her a better understanding of the ability. Seems like this might be reaching. I just can't put my finger on what it is about Verin that unsettles me...she just knows too much. Especially this:

 

 

"Yes, you do. But you do not know what marrying Zarine Bashir means do you?" She reached up to turn his axe in its loop on his belt, studying it. "When are you going to give this up for the hammer?"

The Shadow Rising Chapter 53

 

 

 

Logain and Thom are going to team up at some point for their revenge on the reds. I'm not so sure it isn't deserved after what I've seen in all of the reds. Are there any Red Ajah Aes Sedai that actually seem to be a force for good? 

 

Rand will find a way to stave off the taint, not sure how. Maybe a ter'angreal. I don't think that Moiraine could handle the female ter'angeral from Rheudian, which disappoints me; but I think that Aviendha will be the one who ends up with it. I hope so at least. Unless Lanfear gets a hold of it. That would be...well, I don't know what that would be. Lanfear is crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if she sought out the bracelet from Tanchico and bound herself to Rand. Seems like it might be something she'd do as a last resort, and she certainly could find it the way Nynaeve did with her supposed control over tel'aran'rhiod. 

 

The Two Rivers will rebuild Manetheran, or something equivalent, most likely aided by Ogier. 

 

Rand and Perrin are going to meet Loial's mother, and only with their combined ta'vered powers, (they'll probably need Mat there too, for good measure, provided he minds his manners with the Ogier women,) are they able to stop her from marrying Loial off. 

 

Loial will eventually succomb to the longing in order to finish one last supremely heroic deed. He's been a continual font of entertainment, and a fiercely good character. I'm a sucker for a humble hero. (In that regards, I feel like he might be part of the inspiration for Sazed, at least in a small way.)

 

Moriaine will die when she returns to the tower, at the hands of her sisters. The only Aes Sedai purely devoted to the survival of mankind. Her martyrdom combined with Suan Sanche will reunite the tower anew after another huge battle with many more needless deaths.

 

 

That's all I've got for now.

[Bunnyburn]

The Shadow Rising is perhaps my favorite of RJ's installments, mostly due to the immersion into Aiel culture. It is also the only WOT book I own, and was a gift from a friendship I trashed, so it means a lot to me. I definitely agree with the sentiment that Rand should trust Moiraine. Although, it would have significantly shortnened the series, and eliminated quite a few cool conflicts, so I suppose RJ knew what he was doing.

[Topomouse]

I'm assuming you mean Berelain on this one (not to try and encourage spoilers, but predictions are fun when you guys get to snicker when I get things very wrong. But spoilers will happen and I take full responsibility for what anyone says on here and spoils things for me. I did come to you guys.   )

 

Nope . She does stand out among the other women of the series, but I wasn't talking about her. While she has appeared a couple of times till now, I think you will need at least book 5 to understand who I'm talking about, so don't lose sleep about it.

Btw, half the reason for my comment was to give you something to think about without giving much away. I think it's more fun this way, so I'll do so again with this answer.

 

I just finished up my audio book reread on The Shadow Rising, and I want to say that it definitely changed my opinions on a few things. The first, namely being the more negative nature of my original post. I was quick to critique, but it really wasn't as bad as I made it out to be in my head. The audio rereads have been a great experience for me in the Wheel of Time so far. I think that listening to it has been a much better experience for the story, and since I usually pop on an audio book when I'm doing things or driving, it was actually very nice to have the extraneous portions of the book.

 

I think I was so quick to judge because the characters frustrate me so much. Yes, there are a few flaws in some of them, but overall, it was a great book. I won't say it's my least favorite of the four anymore. It was one of the less enjoyable reads for me, but the audio book is definitely my favorite. (On that note, I want to say how incredily strange it is to have listened to Kate Reading and Michael Kramer read through The Stormlight Archives 2 times through first. I barely recognized his voice when listening to Eye of the World. It's almost a sort of time Travel. Like watching new Doctor Who first, then watching classic. Well actually, my whole Doctor Who viewing in terms of chronology was a bit...wibbly wobbly.)

 

 I have yet to try any audiobook (I prefer to go at my own pace, sometimes I get a bit annoyed even when watching videos) but I'm happy that you re-evalueted the book, it's probably my favourite in the series.

 

I'm glad there is a way to break through shields. I was hoping that wasn't going to be a "haha, the battle is over" deal. If I'm not mistaken, a shield from the opposite gender is much more effective than one from the same power source.

 

I don't remember any interection between shielding and genders, but I could be wrong. It certainly would fit with other things.

 

One thing that still confuses me, did Mat actually die? If it gets explained later, don't answer that, but if this is just a hanging unexplained phenomenom, I'd like to just put the question out of my mind. That whole scene was one of my favorites. Especially after learning a little bit about them later on in Perrin's storyline. Mat really is his own worst enemy, and somehow he ends up better off for it!

 

I'm not sure what you are asking, so I will not risk answering it.

On the other hand you got it right: Mat is his own worst enemy. I think Siuan described him bet in the third book:

"You remind me of my uncle Huan. No one could ever pin him down. He liked to gamble, too, and he'd rather have fun then work. He died pulling children out of a burning house. He wouldn't stop going back as long as there was one left inside. Are you like him, Mat? Will you be there when the flames are high?" 

 

 

Rand's story arch was also very compelling the second time through. There's a lot of foreshadowing in there that I missed, namely Mat being shaken down for information without him ever realizing it. (You really need to trust at least one person Rand!) Aviendha and Rand make me smile. I think Rand is the most clueless of the three when it comes to women, and he's the only one who has real reason to wish for the other two's understanding of women.

Ah, Rand and women. You have yet to see the best trust me.

 

A few predictions that have either come into my head or were remembered:

 

Rand's half brother is alive, possibly a new dreadlord, or at least will become one. He's the one that killed Rand's father. 

 

Verin has some sort of vision or viewing ability, maybe one similar to Min's that she has kept quiet all these years. I find it hard to believe she learned all this from books. I think that's why she's so attached to the ta'veren. They produce so many of the viewings that she's able to connect them to events as they happen, and give her a better understanding of the ability. Seems like this might be reaching. I just can't put my finger on what it is about Verin that unsettles me...she just knows too much. Especially this:

 

 

 

 

Logain and Thom are going to team up at some point for their revenge on the reds. I'm not so sure it isn't deserved after what I've seen in all of the reds. Are there any Red Ajah Aes Sedai that actually seem to be a force for good? 

 

Rand will find a way to stave off the taint, not sure how. Maybe a ter'angreal. I don't think that Moiraine could handle the female ter'angeral from Rheudian, which disappoints me; but I think that Aviendha will be the one who ends up with it. I hope so at least. Unless Lanfear gets a hold of it. That would be...well, I don't know what that would be. Lanfear is crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if she sought out the bracelet from Tanchico and bound herself to Rand. Seems like it might be something she'd do as a last resort, and she certainly could find it the way Nynaeve did with her supposed control over tel'aran'rhiod. 

 

The Two Rivers will rebuild Manetheran, or something equivalent, most likely aided by Ogier. 

 

Rand and Perrin are going to meet Loial's mother, and only with their combined ta'vered powers, (they'll probably need Mat there too, for good measure, provided he minds his manners with the Ogier women,) are they able to stop her from marrying Loial off. 

 

Loial will eventually succomb to the longing in order to finish one last supremely heroic deed. He's been a continual font of entertainment, and a fiercely good character. I'm a sucker for a humble hero. (In that regards, I feel like he might be part of the inspiration for Sazed, at least in a small way.)

 

Moriaine will die when she returns to the tower, at the hands of her sisters. The only Aes Sedai purely devoted to the survival of mankind. Her martyrdom combined with Suan Sanche will reunite the tower anew after another huge battle with many more needless deaths.

 

 

That's all I've got for now.

You have gotten some things kinda right, at least at a macroscopic level, but you wrong about the details.

I know it's veeery soon to say this, but if after you having read the whole thing you'll decide to re-read it you will notice tons and tons of very early foreshadowing.

 

 

 

Edit:

The Shadow Rising is perhaps my favorite of RJ's installments, mostly due to the immersion into Aiel culture. It is also the only WOT book I own, and was a gift from a friendship I trashed, so it means a lot to me. I definitely agree with the sentiment that Rand should trust Moiraine. Although, it would have significantly shortnened the series, and eliminated quite a few cool conflicts, so I suppose RJ knew what he was doing.

 

I kind of disagree with the Moraine thing. In the beginning, let's say book 1, it would have been good, but afterwards she was a bit too keen on manipulating him. It was with the best intentions, but it still wasn't the best course of action. For exemple: had Rand followed her advice in the beginning of book 4 and marched against Illian things would have gotten bad very quickly.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Topomouse

[Fifth of Daybreak]

It's gotta be the illuminator woman that's inventing matches then.

[Topomouse]

Nope, it's not Aludra either.

[king of nowhere]

Stop saying "no it's not her", or he will just ask for every female character until the time we finally don't say anything.

It's the reason aes sedai speak the way the do even when a simple answer will do. the reason secret services say "no comment" even when there is really nothing to hide. The reason sanderson gives some rafo to perfectly innocent questions every once in a while.

[urrutiap]

Ive been reading Shadow Rising recently since a couple of days ago up to today.

 

I think Perrind had the most story involvement from the whole book. Mat, i think Robert Jordan just didnt have anything for Mat to do basically