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Dumbledore vs. Gandalf


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Ah the age old dilemna, who is the better wizard? On the one hand we have a functional immortal, on the other someone who can actually use magic to solve their problems, so 17th Shard who is better? 

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Gandalf just based on the fact he's Maia. Iluvatar, or even Manwe, seemed to see something deep in him. Something Cirdan picked up on as well. I think he was more than just a wizard. I think he was even more than what the Elves or the white council regarded him to be. 

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Well, there seems to be consequences whenever Gandalf uses his magic. I mean look at every time he's tried to cut loose. Dumbledore on the other hand could be said have no such restrictions. He's simply a man but one with complete and total free will... Plus... Elder Wand.

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But then an Elder wand however powerful isn't particularly useful against an immortal demi-god, a Dementor might work I suppose though

Depends on your interpretation of the Tale of the Three Brothers, the Elder Wand is either a very well crafted wand or a gift given by Death. The latter certainly qualifies as a potentially divine source of power.

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Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden.

Not that I don't agree but he's not Gandalf or Dumbledore. And frankly I've read enough Dresden Potter crossovers to realize transfiguration trumps a lot of things in Dresdenverse and Dumbledore was a Transfiguration professor.

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Power-wise: Gandalf. He is a Maia and his magic has no rules we can see.

Dumbledore is the better man, in my opinion, though. He is kind. He is funny. He is compassionate. He is brave. Gandalf isn't as many of those.

What.

Dumbledore, the man who manipulated a seventeen year old boy into committing suicide-by-Voldemort, is a better man than Gandalf?

I really need to process this, and get back to you, because I can't understand how anyone could believe Dumbledore is a better man than Gandalf; I can easily see Gandalf as being wise, kind, compassionate and funny.

As for courage, when you stand toe-to-toe with a Balrog and sacrifice yourself to save your companions... I think you can be considered brave. And that's. It considering the actions that happen offscreen or in the past.

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What.

Dumbledore, the man who manipulated a seventeen year old boy into committing suicide-by-Voldemort, is a better man than Gandalf?

I really need to process this, and get back to you, because I can't understand how anyone could believe Dumbledore is a better man than Gandalf; I can easily see Gandalf as being wise, kind, compassionate and funny.

As for courage, when you stand toe-to-toe with a Balrog and sacrifice yourself to save your companions... I think you can be considered brave. And that's. It considering the actions that happen offscreen or in the past.

I prefer Dumbledore also in that he's a flawed individual in a lot more ways, the fact that he has been seduced by the temptation of power and that he realizes it and fights against it near the end of his life says volumes about who he is.

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What.

Dumbledore, the man who manipulated a seventeen year old boy into committing suicide-by-Voldemort, is a better man than Gandalf?

I really need to process this, and get back to you, because I can't understand how anyone could believe Dumbledore is a better man than Gandalf; I can easily see Gandalf as being wise, kind, compassionate and funny.

As for courage, when you stand toe-to-toe with a Balrog and sacrifice yourself to save your companions... I think you can be considered brave. And that's. It considering the actions that happen offscreen or in the past.

As a person, really? Gandalf is harsh and doesn't help when he can, all the time. He is brave, I give him that. He isn't very funny. Compassionate, occasionally. Kind, depends.

Dumbledore was a good man, granted he lied a lot, but he did what needed to be done. He was always kind and helpful, most of the time.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love LOTR and I like Gandalf. But as a character, I like Dumbledore more. It's not so much that he's a better person, but more that he's nicer and I feel like he tries to help more. Gandalf feels colder to me.

Edited by Mailliw73
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Is this even a contest? Gandalf is Maiar, servant of Eru Ilúvatar aka God aka Creator of ALL. He is not a man, he is freaking angel taken human form. What are guys even talking about? How can mortal wizard challenge servant of the Secret Fire and wielder of the flame of Anor?

Human free will and choice. Divinity often comes with grand restrictions on what you can and can't do. Power is moot if your hands are tied.

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Is this even a contest? Gandalf is Maiar, servant of Eru Ilúvatar aka God aka Creator of ALL. He is not a man, he is freaking angel taken human form. What are guys even talking about? How can mortal wizard challenge servant of the Secret Fire and wielder of the flame of Anor?

I'm afraid I have to agree here.

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Is this even a contest? Gandalf is Maiar, servant of Eru Ilúvatar aka God aka Creator of ALL. He is not a man, he is freaking angel taken human form. What are guys even talking about? How can mortal wizard challenge servant of the Secret Fire and wielder of the flame of Anor?

 

But he is still human and can die. Avada Kedavra would more than likely kill him. If not the wand of death would.

 

Never read the LoTR and I never will because I think they are incredible boring ( though I own all of them ), but how powerful is Gandalf? What can he actually do?

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But he is still human and can die. Avada Kedavra would more than likely kill him. If not the wand of death would.

 

Never read the LoTR and I never will because I think they are incredible boring ( though I own all of them ), but how powerful is Gandalf? What can he actually do?

 

He died once ... it didn't take because he is femaleparentfornicating Maiar of Valinor. He is a spirit, angelic being, what ever you want to call him. He was sent to Middle Earth with four others to counsel Men, Elves and Dwarves in their struggle against Sauron. He was forbidden to use his power, just to counsel them. That is why he doesn't go all "RAWR UNLIMITED POWER!" *lighting from fingers* That doesn't stop him from attack Durin's Bane ... with a sword ... and winning :P

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Gandalf can't do anything, or rather is forbidden, in middle earth. But put them both in an au where they can do whatever they want and It's a no brainer. Gandalf's power would easily exceed Albus. I love them both, but seriously.. The only way Albus would win is if he said to Gandalf "I can use whatever magic i want, and you can't use any."

Also, in said au, I feel like Albus would look up to Gandalf as a sort of mentor. Someone who he'd admire and learn from. Not the other way around

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Nope, Dumbledore is nothing compared to Gandalf. For one Gandalf is a Maia, and others have elaborated on this, but this automatically puts him at another level than Dumbledore who is, though a wizard, still just an old man. Gandalf however is not really an old man but is in actuality a being more glorious than even elves. His true name is Olorin and his exceeding wisdom is without parallel.

 

Same concept for character; Gandalf is only grumpy all the time because of the hundreds upon hundreds of years that he has had to bear the burdens of: his mortal body/rainment, the various races of middle-earth and all their troubles, the ever looming threat of Sauron (a Maia far more powerful than him), the quest of the ring, and having to do all of this mostly by himself. I mean, of the five Istari that were sent to help guide Middle-Earth two completely abandoned it, another was no help at all and was mostly a fool, and one totally isolated himself and then allied with the very enemy they were supposed to be fighting!

 

Gandalf's been through a lot, and he wouldn't take any of that from Dumbledore, he'd be all like "Fly you fool! Before I knock you off your broomstick."

 

I do like Dumbledore on his own merits though.

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I should point out that Dumbledore would after the end of the Harry Potter novels also be dead, and also has access to methods to allow him to return to life, either through a resurrection stone, as a ghost, or I suppose as an Inferi, and as such is also technically immortal, an aspect which I think is often overlooked in this debate.

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