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Vasher and Vivena


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Okay a couple of questions here

1. how much is Vasher going to tell Vivena. Will he tell her about the Cosmere? Why he started the many war?

2. Is Vasher going to rub of on Vivena or vice versa, basically is Vasher going to become more talkative and happy, or is Vivena going to get more grumpy.

3. Is she going to be allowed to use nightblood?

4. Who is NIghtbloods favorite going to be

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Okay a couple of questions here

1. how much is Vasher going to tell Vivena. Will he tell her about the Cosmere? Why he started the many war?

2. Is Vasher going to rub of on Vivena or vice versa, basically is Vasher going to become more talkative and happy, or is Vivena going to get more grumpy.

3. Is she going to be allowed to use nightblood?

4. Who is NIghtbloods favorite going to be

 

Vivenna will wiggle it out of him eventually.

Vivenna's gonna get grumpier, but Vasher will be more capable of talking about feelings and junk and also not withholding vital piece of information just for dramatics *coughkelsiercouch*

Well she probably shouldn't use it bc we like her alive and not Drabby.

Vivenna obvs. Vasher is a butt.

 

And in light of WoR, GUESS WHAT MY PET THEORY IS!

 

I'm gonna tell you anyways, since I've talked about it in the "Is Hoid immortal?" thread or whatever it was.

 

Returning does not make one immortal. Returning grants a single Breath of such magnitude it automatically grants the bearer the Fifth Heightening. The Fifth Heightening, as the Ars Arcanum for Warbreaker states, grants "Agelessness," along with every other attribute before it (Aura recognition, perfect pitch, perfect color recognition, perfect life recognition). This is how Vasher is immortal, and the easiest and most likely method of Hoid achieving immortality based on the worlds and variations of Investiture we've learned about so far. Therefore, Vivenna could also have achieved this Heightening while traveling around Nalthis with Vasher, and become functionally immortal herself. I really doubt she would have agreed to be left behind by Vasher when he worldhops to Roshar. Assuming they continue to kick *** and run around Nalthis, there is no way they would not continue to be a superhero duo of grumps and princessitude on Roshar.

 

tdlr Vivenna is immortal and lives on Roshar with Vasher bc Breaths

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Im sure she was hanging with him for a while. getting her rebelious phase out of the way- and than Bam! Shes like this dude is actually crazy and not like crazy- But Cray Cray because hes talking to his sword all day-shapeshifting and bouncing around killing people.

 

So than she decided to go home and do some justice to her father- married a political ally and set her country up in the right way- always thinking of the heroic but crazy Vasher she left behind...4 kids 9 grandkids later she wiped.. .

 

 

The end

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But... why? Why would you even. Why.

 

to reduce Vivenna's character growth to... that. why.

edit: and to ignore pretty much everything about Vasher and how awesome he is and also very not-murderous?? Yes, I understand that was made in jest but.

 

why

Edited by theravenchilde
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@theravenchilde ...I feel that is the most likely scenrio.. sorry to say but Sanderson is usually logically and dosnt always follow the fantasy destiny stories- hes like Jordan in that sometimes people are normal or scared or tired and just are that. In this I feel like even after all of her character growth she could not keep up with Vasher- his comsere and worldhopping and Save the World crazy mission.. More likely she took what she learned and applied it to helping her people and her country that she felt so strongly about-enlightening the world and exposing them to the same things she learned.

 

Bam

Edited by Shardmancer
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... Did we read the same Vivenna, then? I think she made it pretty clear at the end of the book that she's choosing adventure (and probably like, prevention of the abuse of Nalthis's Investiture) over her sister and their countries. Going from "save my sister/the country at the same time" to "save the world" isn't much of a stretch of her internal logic.

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Warbreaker being one of my favorite books and Vivenna being one of my favortie characters I have a lot of love for the strong willed powerful woman but I just dont see her on a Cosmerian scale. She would be more effective and beneficial in a smaller role in Nathlis.-So Well have to respectfully disgree with eachother.

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  • 7 months later...

I have no doubt that she would want to go with Vasher to Roshar, but since she isn't even hinted at in Zahel's PoV, I think I err on the side of 'she isn't there'. In fact, the only clue I can dredge up from memory is Zahel getting moody about things reminding him of home when he's talking with Kaladin. Whether that's just him trying to not think about the manywar, or something more, I think it's portentous.

Honestly, by the end of Warbreaker, Vasher has saved 2 nations and entrusted his legacy to Susebron (a really decent guy), and then gone off with Vivenna to save 2 more nations. I would think Vasher is probably the most enthused about life he's been since leaving Hallendran after being the Peacegiver. To go from "I've been having success and doing good and I kind of enjoy this little protege's presence" at the end of Warbreaker to "I hate being reminded of home" in WoR, I think something must have gone wrong. Perhaps disastrously so.

I hate to say it folks, but no matter what happens with Yesteel, and no matter how Nightblood and Vasher get separated, I just can't see Vivenna surviving Nightblood.

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I thought there was a WoB that suggested he had been on Roshar for about 50 years by the time he appears in WoR? Or was that just speculation on here?

 

Also, there is a scene in WoR where Kaladin goes and wakes up Zahel to ask about training against a shardblade. At the very end of that scene, Zahel returns to bed lamenting the lack of voice in his head, and iirc, it says it has been a long time since he last heard that voice.

 

At first, I thought it meant he was one of the original Heralds, and was mourning his dead Spren, but knowing it is Vasher, then the voice must be Nightblood's.

 

Either way, it sounds like he lost both Nightblood and Vivenna quite some time ago.

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I thought there was a WoB that suggested he had been on Roshar for about 50 years by the time he appears in WoR? Or was that just speculation on here?

 

Also, there is a scene in WoR where Kaladin goes and wakes up Zahel to ask about training against a shardblade. At the very end of that scene, Zahel returns to bed lamenting the lack of voice in his head, and iirc, it says it has been a long time since he last heard that voice.

 

At first, I thought it meant he was one of the original Heralds, and was mourning his dead Spren, but knowing it is Vasher, then the voice must be Nightblood's.

 

Either way, it sounds like he lost both Nightblood and Vivenna quite some time ago.

 

WoK/WoR spoilers

 The Heralds didn't have spren. 

 

I haven't seen that WoB, but I think it's safe to say Vasher has been on Roshar for at least 10 years - he became Adolin's swordmaster when he was around 10 (that's said to be the typical age lighteyed boys get a swordmaster if I recall correctly and only Renarin was commented to get one when he's much older, no parallels were made with Adolin on that one), which was ~10 or more years prior WoR. Of course, that means Vasher has been there at least a little longer so that he could end up as ardent and become a swordmaster (which probably didn't take long) 

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From the Warbreaker Annotations:

 

 

 

For me, Vivenna is the most interesting character in the book. Yes, Lightsong was the most fun to write—but Vivenna is the one who has the most potential for growth and change. Particularly because she isn’t instantly appealing like the other three. Much like Hrathen in Elantris, Vivenna begins very far from where she would need to go if she wanted to gain the rooting interest of readers. You’ll have to read on and see if she actually gets there.

 

Since Vivenna is his favorite character in the book, I'd say the chances of him grounding her story arc are about zero. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if she dies in Nightblood, (Mistborn spoilers):

but it'd be on par with the deaths of Vin and Elend.

 

And in talking about whether she'll rub off on Vasher or vise versa, don't get Vivenna confused with Siri. Vivenna is not talkative or "peppy". She's a realist and she's very hard on herself and those around her...just like Vasher. Where they're different is that Vivenna knows how to be diplomatic. I think they'll make a great team. While I can't begin to guess what will happen in Nightblood, I'm sure that Vivenna will continue to have an amazing story arc. We know that whatever caused Vasher to loose Nightblood isn't shown completely in the eponymous book, I do hope we at least get to see what direction Vivenna is headed. I, for one, would be surprised if she doesn't wind up a Worldhopper. 

Edited by little wilson
please use spoiler tags when in forums other than that book's or Cosmere Theories
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I hope she becomes a worldhopper, but it's more likely she'll die. She would definetly be mentioned in WOR in my opinion if she wasn't dead. Unless she's hangin' on some other world.

 

We should be using spoiler tags. We're discussing WoR in the Warbreaker forum.

 

Or she's the one actively hunting Nightblood, and Vasher just gave up. We know Vasher is looking for Nightblood, but being an Ardent teaching the upperclass of one nation to duel in a location with very little worldly traffic is an awful way to do so. I have a feeling that, if Vivenna does not die in Nightblood and travels with Vasher to Roshar (rather than staying behind), at some point after losing Nightblood Vasher just gives up and decides to stay put and make himself a new life, while Vivenna does not, and is the one actively looking for the sword. It would make for good development of Vasher's character, as well as good development for the relationship between the two of them.

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