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firstRainbowRose

Another shard revealed

29 posts in this topic

I got this e-mail from someone and knew I had to share it. Thanks Brian for passing word along!

I have some news that will probably be of interest to readers of 17thshard.com. Perhaps you’ll be kind enough to publish this for me.

I took my tWoK audio book to the Sanderson signing event in Seattle last night. He was reluctant to give out many cosmere secrets because he thinks he’s given too many already. However, he agreed to give me one. When he had trouble thinking of one, I suggested that he name one of the unknown shards. I didn’t really expect him to agree, but he did! When he opened his computer to take a look, I chided him. “There are only 16 shards. Don’t you have them memorized?”

He responded that sometimes he has several synonyms that he hasn’t quite decided on. So I asked him if he was now canonizing a new shard and he said yes. So this is now official. He agreed to let me share it, so here it is.

I’ve attached the picture for you to see for yourself, but the text says: “The second shard on the Elantris world (Sel) is Dominion.”

Thanks.Brian T. Hill

shardhint.jpg

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Very awesome.

/me thinks for a second.

So, this would be Skai's Shard, yes? We were already told that Aona's shard was "something like devotion" (paraphrasing), correct? That would mean this would be Skai's. (And it makes sense to me, at a cursory glance.)

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Oh wow! Oh wow oh wow oh wow! :D

Dominion is a good fit. It makes so much sense with foresight :D

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Very awesome.

/me thinks for a second.

So, this would be Skai's Shard, yes? We were already told that Aona's shard was "something like devotion" (paraphrasing), correct? That would mean this would be Skai's. (And it makes sense to me, at a cursory glance.)

yeah, pretty sure he meant Skai's Shard. Awesome t have it named!

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I'm moving this to General Theories.

This does make sense. When we talked with Brandon, I asked him if Domination was Skai's Shard, and he said we were on the right track. So, awesome. Dominion is great.

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Very cool! It's always nice to get some definitive shard clues!

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I'm moving this to General Theories.

This does make sense. When we talked with Brandon, I asked him if Domination was Skai's Shard, and he said we were on the right track. So, awesome. Dominion is great.

Speaking of shard names did you ever get your Sam Wellers copy of AoL where he listed a Shard's intent in the signing? if so, what was it?

Edited by SOM1else
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Well, that would make a great deal of sense, considering a good portion of the Elantrian magic system seems to be proximity-based. An Elantrian is strongest when they are in their domain!

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Awesome! Thank you so much for sharing the info and the picture! I'm excited now. Starting a big ol' Sanderson Cosmere re-read soon so that I can take some notes this time instead of just letting those little thoughts niggle in the back of my mind, so this is definitely going to be something I look out for clues about. Gotta love Brandon, he's just lovely to his fans!

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Well, that would make a great deal of sense, considering a good portion of the Elantrian magic system seems to be proximity-based. An Elantrian is strongest when they are in their domain!

I don't think so. Aona--pretty obviously related to AonDor--is Devotion (or a synonym, whatever). It's possible that Skai/Dominion has a role in Elantrians, given that the Dor may be made up of both Devotion and Dominion's power, but I'd say it is fairly minimal. Dominion's much more related to the Fjordell magic. Consider Wyrn. I long suspected his extreme power came from the amount of followers he had, with the Derethi oaths and such. The power comes from having dominion over people.

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Hmm, kind of like an opposite of the Kkell oath from Mythwalker. Dominion- More oaths = More Power, Kkell More oaths = less power. Interesting.

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After stewing over this information for a bit, I've got a mini-theory: the various magics of Sel are all combinations of both Devotion/syn and Dominion, just in different proportions. This is mostly based on the definition of the words.

Devotion: Ardent, often selfless affection and dedication, as to a person or principle; Religious ardor or zeal

Dominion: A territory or sphere of influence or control; Control or the exercise of control

The first definition of both these words seems to fit Elantrians as we know them, while the second seems to fit the Dakhor monks.

Because I like breaking things down...

AonDor - more Devotion than Dominion

Devotion component: to a cause. Karata had her child, Galladon had his orchards, Taan had stonework, etc. This varies a lot.

Dominion component: local landscape. the Aonic landscape, where Elantris was established.

ChayShan - equal parts Devotion and Dominion

Devotion component: movement skills. the ChayShan dance Shuden does takes a lot of practice, which he would have to devote a lot of time to in order to master.

Dominion component: your own body. The more in tune with his body he was, the more Shuden seemed to glow.

This one is the fuzziest of them, simply because we only see it twice.

Dakhor system - more Dominion than Devotion

Devotion component: faith. Dakhor monks are among the most zealous followers of Shu-Dereth, and it's possible they are chosen to become Dakhor for that very reason.

Dominion component: over others. Gaining Dakhor powers requires sacrifice, and the more power you gain the more lives it takes.

Both components are important to the magics, unlike the mutual exclusivity of Preservation and Ruin. This, I believe, is because the Shards are not perfect opposites. Instead, the two Shards' Intents compliment each other - the important thing is how they work together. AonDor would be a Devotion-lead, Dominion-follow system; Dakhor would be the opposite, with Dominion leading, and ChayShan would be a system where neither leads.

Hope that makes sense.

Edited by Cuaiir
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This is so exciting! Although I was so sure that Skai's Shard was Unity, I think Dominion fits a lot better with the magic.

This, I believe, is because the Shards are not perfect opposites. Instead, the two Shards' Intents compliment each other - the important thing is how they work together. AonDor would be a Devotion-lead, Dominion-follow system; Dakhor would be the opposite, with Dominion leading, and ChayShan would be a system where neither leads.

While this makes sense I disagree. I think that they are opposites like Ruin and Preservation. They are two opposite reasons for following someone. You believe in an idea or follow a person, either because of your Devotion, or because they have Dominion over you. The two Shards being opposites also fits with my theory that only opposite (or maybe paired?) Shards can form a balance magic like Feruchemy or ChayShan.

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I don't think the two reasons to follow someone are mutually exclusive, therefore I don't think the Shards are as opposite as R&P.

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Awsome! I didn't even know such word exists, had to check what it means. Doesnn't seem very similar to othes Shard names. I mean - it's not a abstract idea, but more of a geographical term... or do I still not understand it well?

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Awsome! I didn't even know such word exists, had to check what it means. Doesnn't seem very similar to othes Shard names. I mean - it's not a abstract idea, but more of a geographical term... or do I still not understand it well?

Well, if you want, you could interpret it as "to control". That's what it means to have dominion over someone. It's kind of weird if you haven't heard of it, but then again, I sure as hell didn't know what Odium meant until Way of Kings.

(I hope "odium" is a word on the GRE... I take it tomorrow :( )

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Well, if you want, you could interpret it as "to control". That's what it means to have dominion over someone. It's kind of weird if you haven't heard of it, but then again, I sure as hell didn't know what Odium meant until Way of Kings.

(I hope "odium" is a word on the GRE... I take it tomorrow :( )

Obviously eri has never played Starcraft. (Or at least the campaign.) :D Dominion can also be spoken of as a people/area over which you control but feel obligated to defend/protect.

I, too, hadn't ever heard "odium" used before WoK, Chaos. You are not alone.

I agree with CrazyRioter that the intent of the Shards are not mutually exclusive and I like the explanation given by Cuaiir, though I think the Dominion part of AonDor is more likely Dominion over the shape/result of the Aons, rather than dominion in a territorial sense.

Edit: Good luck on the GRE, Chaos!

Edited by Thor
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Dominion and Devotion are opposites, but they are opposite in such a way that they add rather than subtract. Think about it. If you are Devoted to somebody, they will find it easier to have Dominion over you, and if you have Dominion over somebody, they are Devoted to your service. So when these two come together they reinforce each other rather than canceling out.

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Which is why Odium came to Shatter them. He might have vaguely feared their combined powers, similar to that of Honor and Cultivation, through which Honor was Shattered to compensate. This implies however that Odium has a weakness.

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Dominion and Devotion are opposites, but they are opposite in such a way that they add rather than subtract. Think about it. If you are Devoted to somebody, they will find it easier to have Dominion over you, and if you have Dominion over somebody, they are Devoted to your service. So when these two come together they reinforce each other rather than canceling out.

I actually have a theory regarding this that I will be soon, so if you're interested keep an eye out. Putting it simply I think that every Shard has a pair, and they can sometimes be opposites, but they will always complement each other. Like how Sazed used Ruin and Preservation as complements, Devotion and Dominion complement each other, as do Cultivation and Endowment. The reason that they weren't bound together is that they weren't opposites. When complements reside on the same planet, a balance magic forms, thus Feruchemy and ChayShan. (although its hinted that there are possibly more ways to access the Dor)

Which is why Odium came to Shatter them. He might have vaguely feared their combined powers, similar to that of Honor and Cultivation, through which Honor was Shattered to compensate. This implies however that Odium has a weakness.

Odium's goal is to become the only Shard left unshattered. Brandon stated this in a quote. I can find it for you if you like. However he might also have feared their combined powers. this gets back to another theory I will be posting. I find it possible that the one of the reasons Odium still comes is because Honor is dead, but not yet Shattered. Odium is afraid that someone will take up Honor, so he comes to destroy all the Surgebinders that could. (Also possibly to fight Cultivation, Honor mentioned her in present tense implying she still lives, but it's from a vision in the past)

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Odium's goal is to become the only Shard left unshattered. Brandon stated this in a quote. I can find it for you if you like. However he might also have feared their combined powers. this gets back to another theory I will be posting. I find it possible that the one of the reasons Odium still comes is because Honor is dead, but not yet Shattered. Odium is afraid that someone will take up Honor, so he comes to destroy all the Surgebinders that could. (Also possibly to fight Cultivation, Honor mentioned her in present tense implying she still lives, but it's from a vision in the past)

I'm almost sure Cultivation still lives. Honor sounded sure of her ability to see into the future, implying that perhaps she foresaw this. I also agree with the Cultivation/Endowment pair, wherein that Cultivation can also facilitate destruction, if it means that those that remain will be stronger, however Endowment can only every be a good thing (barring the possibility that one does not like extra responsibility).

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I notice a lot of people are using "she" when referring to Cultivation. Has it been verified that the shardholder of Cultivation was/is a female?

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I notice a lot of people are using "she" when referring to Cultivation. Has it been verified that the shardholder of Cultivation was/is a female?

I don't think it has been in anyway proven, or even RAFOed. However I'm pretty sure we refer to her as a 'she' because it has been theorized that she may be linked to the Nightwatcher (I think that's it?) who, in Roshar, is a feminine mystical figure.

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I'm almost sure Cultivation still lives. Honor sounded sure of her ability to see into the future, implying that perhaps she foresaw this. I also agree with the Cultivation/Endowment pair, wherein that Cultivation can also facilitate destruction, if it means that those that remain will be stronger, however Endowment can only every be a good thing (barring the possibility that one does not like extra responsibility).

I don't think any Shard is all good or all bad. For example, Endowment can be used to do some pretty mean things (vis. Alcatraz w/ Bestower's Lenses).

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Of course, as could Preservation. But I think the point I was trying to make in that was that they each have a complementing pair which makes the entire process neutral, thus the possibility for Harmonies to be created.

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