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Found 4 results

  1. My understanding is that the spiritual realm is a source of perpetual energy that decreases the entropy of the physical realm through certain investitures (ie. Stormlight) and shards. Do the laws of entropy apply to the spiritual realm? I studied chemical engineering in college so conservation of energy is something that i have thought a lot about while reading cosmere books. Is it possible for the energy of the spiritual realm to reach equilibrium with that of the physical realm? I guess my question boils down to: is there a finite amount of energy in the spiritual realm, or does it somehow break the laws of thermodynamics by constantly adding energy to the physical realm from an infinite source?
  2. Despite Brandon’s statement, I find no obvious Nalthian Investiture source to fuel Awakening. Please help me solve this mystery. AWAKENING’S FUEL I see Awakening’s color drain the same as Allomancy’s metal burning and Sand Mastery’s dehydration. Magic lasts in those systems only while color, metal, and water last. Yet none of these substances is Investiture or otherwise serves as the magic system’s fuel. I view color (electromagnetic radiation really), metal, and water as the kinetic Investiture carriers for their respective Shards, substances that transport kinetic Investiture to magic users. Here are Nalthian Awakening’s fuel possibilities: Color as “Spiritual Attribute” Many believe color is a “Spiritual attribute.” I agree, but that doesn’t tell us how color could act as fuel. Most (all?) Spiritual attributes are Connections. A Spiritual aspect is raw Investiture mixed with Connections. Connections IMO carry the data that turns raw Investiture into a unique lifeform or object. An object’s color is unique data like its weight and dimensions. Because Connections are not Investiture, I think color couldn’t fuel Awakening even if color is a Spiritual attribute. Specific colors are magically significant in the cosmere. Color affects Soulcasting, for example. But Brandon says in that WoB, “I didn't work that into the Warbreaker magic,” and he chooses not to “retcon the magic.” He confirms specific colors don’t matter for Awakening in this 2019 WoB. Pigment @RShara opines an object’s “pigment” is fuel. Pigments are substances that selectively absorb visible light wavelengths. Selective absorption causes the object to reflect the other wavelengths, which our eyes perceive as color. RShara says breaking the pigment’s bonds yields the energy Awakening needs. This is a neat solution, but I have questions. What happens to the object’s Spiritual aspect when those Physical Realm bonds break? Why and how does that fuel Awakening? In our world, to break molecular bonds requires external energy; otherwise, stable molecules like pigments remain intact. What supplies this external energy in the cosmere? How does Awakening work if the object holds no pigment? Pigments are separate molecules from the objects they color. Brandon says an Awakener can drain color from gemstones. Gemstone color depends on internal impurities that affect light absorption, not pigments. How is that consistent with the pigment theory? If an Awakener can drain color from an object without pigment, then pigment’s bonds seem unnecessary as fuel. Something Else Because of my questions, I look elsewhere for Nalthian Investiture. No obvious source jumps out at me. Breath can be used as fuel but generally isn’t. Dyes made from the Tears of Edgli are best for Awakening and contain Endowment’s Investiture. But Awakeners can Awaken from other color sources too. That leads me to ask, Why does Awakening drain color? Color is the perception of reflected light. Objects absorb the other light wavelengths in the form of photons. Absorbed photons – the ones that don’t give off color – are all that’s left in the object. Why should draining the absorbed photons turn an object gray when the absorbed photons are not responsible for color? Best Guess My best guess: Draining those photons drains Investiture the photons hold. Like a Shardblade severs a limb from its Spiritual aspect and turns the limb gray, draining Investiture-laden photons IMO causes the object to turn gray. Endowment Investiture “sticks” to the object that absorbs the photons. My limited imagination can’t see another explanation that both grays an object and sources Investiture. The following vague WoB supports the possibility but with caveats. “A connection” can mean most anything. It’s also unclear which “two things” from among drained objects, Shardblades, and gemstone color Brandon refers to. Here’s the WoB despite these flaws: Investiture Source? Where might Investiture-laden photons come from? As quanta of electromagnetic radiation (EMR), the Invested photons’ most likely source is Nalthis’ sun. On Taldain, Autonomy’s Investiture “beats down” from its sun onto that planet. Nalthis’ sun could function similarly. I speculate Nalthis’ sun has always radiated Investiture onto Nalthis as part of that planet’s pre-Shattering ambient Investiture cycle. I do not suggest the sun’s Investiture necessarily comes from Endowment. It might be Autonomy’s or some other Shard’s Investiture. I think Awakening can use any Investiture as fuel IF the Investiture is in a form Breaths can process (discussed below). Breath holders can theoretically Awaken objects on any planet. But on Nalthis, Investiture stuck to the photons an object absorbs is the only fuel I can find that relates to color draining. Awakening on Roshar Comparing Nalthian with Rosharan Awakening is instructive despite how inconclusive the relevant WoBs are. It’s hard to know if Brandon means Stormlight can substitute as Awakening’s fuel or substitute for Breaths. When asked, “could you fuel Awakening using Stormlight, or do you have to bring Breaths?,” Brandon answered, “Yes, you could.... there are tricks to making it happen on each world. Some are easier than others, but yes you can.” [Calamity Release Party (Feb. 16, 2016).] Since the questioner asked if you can fuel Awakening with Stormlight, I believe Brandon assumes the Awakener has Breath, though that’s unclear. [Hint: Don’t ask Brandon compound questions! We can’t tell what “yes” means.] Brandon also says, “You can make a Returned feed off of Stormlight very easily. You can't use Stormlight to power Awakening very easily, but if you still have those Breaths, you can use them and reclaim them.” [Starsight Release Party (Nov 26, 2019).] This also sounds like Stormlight can fuel Awakening “if you still have those Breaths.” And Brandon says you can convert Stormlight into Breath by “Refining the power somehow into a more pure form.” [General Reddit (April 25, 2019).] Neither Hoid nor Vivenna knows how to do this, “so it’s not like a simple thing to achieve.” With limited confidence, I interpret these WoBs to mean Rosharan Awakeners need Breaths to Awaken. Otherwise a Rosharan Awakener would have to convert Stormlight into Breaths, which no one knows how to do yet. That suggests, for now, Rosharan Awakening relies on Breaths and some Rosharan fuel. Rosharan Fuel for Awakening I see two possible Rosharan fuels for Awakening: Stormlight and gemhearts. Brandon says here, here and here that Awakening drains Rosharan gemstones of color and ruins their Soulcasting properties. Gemhearts are made from Investiture leaking into the Physical Realm. That supports but doesn’t prove that Awakening drains Investiture, not color. When @RShara asks, can you Awaken using an underground gemstone that’s never been exposed to light and doesn’t hold Stormlight, the answer is “Yes,” if that gemstone is made from a gemheart. The more interesting question is whether mined gemstones can substitute. Most gemstones come from gemhearts: “Some are mined. Mining is not easy on Roshar.” Mined gemstones are “very similar. Not 100% chemically identical” to gemhearts because they contain more mineral impurities. Brandon hasn't said whether Rosharan Awakeners can use mined or artificial gems as color sources (though the latter can be used for fabrials). I believe if the gemstone holds Stormlight the Awakener could remove that Investiture to fuel Awakening, which will drain the gemstone's color. Endowment’s Magic Brandon (IMO) says Shards grant magic users access to Investiture through the Shard’s unique “primal force/fundamental law/something natural.” Ruin magic users Intend an act of entropy (spiking, converting attributes into Investiture, destroying evil). Windrunners Intend a bond to change gravity’s vector (lashing). I believe Endowment gives Awakeners access to Investiture through quanta. Breaths are quanta of Endowment’s Investiture. The Heightenings are the quantization of Breaths, since Breaths vary due to age, illness, and other factors. Photons are quanta of electromagnetic radiation (EMR), which includes visible light. Endowment IMO gives Awakeners access to Investiture through quanta (Breaths), fueled by any Investiture carried in quantum form. Conclusion: Breath Can Use Any Quantized Fuel This post’s opening WoB says Awakening “is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself.” I don’t think Awakeners can use Investiture in any form. A Rosharan Awakener cannot simply inhale Stormlight and Awaken an object with that fuel even if they do hold Breaths. The reason IMO is Endowment’s “quantum” primal force. I think Breaths need to process Investiture in quantum form. Like metal and water carry their Shard’s kinetic Investiture, I believe photons carry Endowment’s kinetic investiture. You can Awaken anywhere in the cosmere with any Investiture, but you must access that Investiture by draining the “color” from an Invested object. That Investiture reaches the Awakener down an EMR pathway. I speculate on Nalthis that Investiture radiates from its sun, like on Taldain. And for those who think draining “color” by itself suffices to fuel Awakening, this “Poster Challenge” is for you. POSTER CHALLENGE – “HAND WAVIUM” OR COSMERE THERMODYNAMICS? Folks on Discord surprised me the other day by rejecting the idea cosmere thermodynamics helps explain magic. They feel cosmere thermodynamics itself is broken or has so many exceptions as to limit its value as an analytical tool. Many think Awakening and other magic systems don’t need fuel and don’t have to comply with thermodynamics’ rules. They accept magical solutions that I think involve too much “hand wavium.” I therefore offer this POSTER CHALLENGE: Read this WoB carefully and summarize its main conclusion. What do YOU think Brandon says here? Thanks for playing! And for my Discord friends, I offer this quote: Brandon violates his own rules more often than one would like. But those rules exist and IMHO should guide the development of our magic system theories. All the best! C.
  3. Brandon says the cosmere follows its own rules of thermodynamics. This post explores how those rules might apply to magic systems and planets. Here are cosmere thermodynamics’ four “laws”: 1. The sum of the cosmere’s matter, energy, and Investiture is constant. These substances change form and convert into one another. 2. As a closed system, the cosmere’s entropy never decreases but moves towards equilibrium. 3. The third thermodynamic law states there’s no entropy in a perfect crystal at absolute zero (Kelvin). Is this how perfect gems hold the Unmade in total stasis without an entropy cost (even if not absolute zero)? 4. Brandon says there’s a fourth cosmere law that has to do with Adonalsium. ASIDE: While not relevant to this post, I speculate the fourth law is an exception to the first law: every substance is inter-convertible EXCEPT substances cannot convert back into the cosmere’s original substance, the “powers of creation.” I believe these powers are the remnants of Adonalsium’s soul; and Shards and magic users pull these powers from his Spiritual Realm corpse. If other substances could convert back into these powers, the cosmere IMO would be a perpetual motion machine that decreases entropy and violates thermodynamics’ second law. If I’m right about this fourth law, the cosmere will instead eventually wind down. Magic System Thermodynamics In this WoB, Brandon explains how Spiritual Realm Investiture ensures thermodynamic compliance even with “end neutral” Feruchemy: This makes sense. Imagine you have ten units of strength you wish to store as Investiture in your metal mind. When you reconvert that Investiture into strength, you get the full ten units back. The thermodynamic problem Brandon addresses is the energy cost of each conversion. Conversions are not free, just like thawing water costs energy. External Spiritual Realm Investiture supplies “the power…facilitating that transfer.” The alternative would be loss of attributes upon reconversion or cannibalization of the Feruchemical gene. IOW, either some of the metal mind’s stored Investiture or the Feruchemical gene’s Investiture would be used to “facilitate the transfer.” We know that doesn’t happen, and Brandon’s WoB explains why. A contrary view claims the cost of Feruchemical conversion is itself a storable attribute. Maybe I don’t understand this view, but it seems to violate thermodynamics’ second law (entropy). Either conversion costs energy, or it doesn’t. Brandon says it does, and external power pays that cost. Otherwise, the Feruchemist would have to pay it. IOW, conversion in BOTH directions costs energy – you can’t store and recover that cost in and from a metal mind because it’s already been spent. Brandon elsewhere acknowledges Spiritual Realm Investiture’s role in the “net positive” magic systems’ thermodynamics. He says the “energy [that] passes through…from another place…is my get-out for the laws of thermodynamics.” This WoB is five years older than the first one, which I believe supersedes this older WoB’s comments about Feruchemy. Planetary Thermodynamics I believe every planet needs Spiritual Realm energy to grow, and every planet returns energy to the Spiritual Realm when the planet tips into decline. This follows from thermodynamics’ first law that the cosmere’s Investiture, matter, and energy is constant. Let’s look at Roshar as an example. When Roshar was young, the planet supported fewer lifeforms than it does now. It takes time to populate a continent, especially one that rises from the oceans after the planet’s formation. Growing that continent and its lifeforms into matter takes energy and/or Investiture. Thermodynamics’ first law means the conversion of energy and Investiture into matter reduces the amount of Roshar’s energy and Investiture. If Roshar were a closed system, at some point Roshar would cease to grow. It would have insufficient energy and Investiture to support its lifeforms. The lifeforms die (reducing Rosharan matter) and return Investiture and energy back to the system. It’s theoretically possible Roshar never reaches this tipping point because Stormlight is plentiful and may prove enough to support the planet. But we know planets are not closed systems. They are connected through both the Spiritual and Cognitive Realms. Commerce between planets by itself shifts matter, energy, and Investiture from one to the next In some ways, the Spiritual Realm acts like a central bank. Planets borrow Investiture from it during their growth phases and return that Investiture when they wane. IOW, the thermodynamic laws apply to the whole cosmere, which is a closed system, and not to individual planets, which IMO are not closed systems. Conclusion Maybe it’s just me, but I think this stuff is important. Every magic system IMO must obey thermodynamics. Allomancers and Sand Masters, for example, use their internal body heat to “burn” metals and water (dehydrate). That action kick-starts the magical process. I find “follow the energy flows” is a good mantra for magic system analysis.
  4. Brandon has said that Nightblood is the only exception to the Cosmere’s version of the laws of thermodynamics; he causes a net loss of investiture in the Cosmere. Doesn’t this also happen with people’s souls after death? Souls are made from Spiritual Realm investiture. If souls fly to the “Beyond,” doesn’t that also remove investiture from the Cosmere? There’s a WoB somewhere that soul’s investiture somehow gets recycled (IIRC, and I may not be). That suggests the God Beyond ISN’T “Beyond” or at least has a pipeline back to the Spiritual Realm once the investiture has been scrubbed clean of the soul’s Connections. Thoughts?
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