Search the Community

So I've been wondering something while re-reading TLM. What happens to Hemalurgic Spikes after they're brought back from the Set? Are they just locked up in a Constable evidence locker while having their charge slowly drain away? Do the Kandra confiscate them to keep the secret of Hemalurgy? Do the Ghostbloods nab them while no one is looking? I'm just curious since after Wax and Co got finished ripping the Set a new one, what happens to all those dozens of precious, power granting, Non-Trellium spikes?

I counted at least six Hemalurgic spikes that allowed for gold Feruchemy that were in the possession of the Set (Mr. Suit, Lady Kelesina, Telsin, the Cycle in TLM, Gave Entrone, and Gertruda). I know that they had quite a few resources at their disposal, but I was under the impression that Ferrings were rare, especially considering that if you wanted to get a specific type of Ferring for Hemalurgy, you have only 1/16th of the original number of Feruchemists to choose from. Not only that, but Mr. Suit mentions that the Set found a way to let someone else fuel their Hemalurgist's Feruchemy, probably via Identity blanking, which would suggest that they had even more Hemalurgic spikes providing health. How did they get so many Hemalurgic spikes providing gold Feruchemy?

So I bet there is another thread talking about this, but I just couldn’t find it anywhere. so the set had these weird Kandra, if I recall correctly. It seemed kind of obvious that they weren’t really Kandra and most likely agents from another shard. They had red eyes, I believe, which points toward odium. But red is also just corrupted investiture, right? So just one of the bad shards. Which leaves as far as we know odium and autonomy, because ruin is obviously a no go. There have been many theories on what is attacking scaldrial in mistborn era 2 but I think it’s up in the air, right? There’s red mist in the cosmere cognitive realm map during stormlight archive 1-5 time, which many have assisiated with odium. But Taldain and scaldrial have a lot of worldhoppers going back and forth, which is why Trell is in both white sand and mistborn era 2, meaning autonomy is also a fair bet. did I hit what we currently are in a consensus of or am a missing or misunderstanding some parts? It is really hard to find any info regarding the strange Kandra, which is kind of irritating. I couldn’t find anything on the coppermind. given what we know, what are these strange Kandra? And who do they work for? also I hope I didn’t put any spoilers for other books. I’m fairly sure I did not, though.

So with just one hemalurgic spike, Spook and Quellion ("The Citizen of Urtreau") could see and hear visions of Ruin impersonating Kelsier, Wax can communicate with Harmony (via earring), and in Mistborn: Secret History, With just two spikes, a a kandra is subject to the direct control of Ruin/Harmony - though by their own admission, they are "weaker than other hemalurgic constructs" in this regard. On the other hand, koloss have four and that's enough, and Inquisitors have at least ten, and Marsh has way more than even that ("upwards of twenty"). We've seen that using a "trellium" spike - an unknown god-metal - can work in new and different ways, both in terms of being invisible to Harmony, and it terms of what they can steal/do with just one spike (create mutants, allow Bleeder to steal Feruchemical and Allomantic abilities without a second spike). However, hemalurgy as a magical art is still fundamentally something drawing on Ruin's power, and so a second spike as small as Wax's earring turned into a bullet was enough to subject Bleeder to Harmony's control again, even though the other spike was trellium. The "spike count" included the trellium one, even if Harmony couldn't leverage that spike to see/communicate with Bleeder. Given that, how can Edwarn and Telsin have spiked themselves enough to gain multiple powers, both Allomantic and Feruchemical, without Harmony's understanding? In particular, Harmony should have been able to witness his interaction with the non-kandra, Trell-serving Faceless Immortal that blew him up. Then I remembered that Edwarn/Suit commented to Wax that "if you spike yourself too much, you become subject to Harmony's... interference", and that he is "limited to three boons, even if we have discovered how to make someone else be weak, while we gain the benefit." Meaning they have a way to have up to three spikes without Harmony's awareness. At first, I interpreted this as them just using trellium spikes to steal attributes, and that only after three spikes would the trellium nature of the spikes get superceded by the fundamental mechanics of hemalurgy. But then I noticed the comment "make someone else be weak", not "kill someone". We know the Set are not above the torture and killing of people for power and information; see what they did to Allik's crewmates. There must be a reason for Edwarn to use such an awkardly precise turn of phrase. Per a Tweet of Brandon, it is possible to "partially spike" someone with hemalurgy: And what would be "worse than being a drab"? I can think of something else we've seen. Perhaps the twisted, trellium-spiked hemalurgic constructs that Wax and TenSoon encountered in the original kandra Homeland in the caverns under Elendel are the original Allomancers or Feruchemists the Set have used as "donors" to steal attributes? First spiked, but not killed, in such a way as to steal their power, with that spike being given to another person - and then being given another trellium spike to complete their transformation? Brrr.

Sorry if there is already a post saying what i say here. I the end of 'the bands of mourning' (chapter 28) there is a section where wax is dead and is talking to harmony. and there harmony shows him (in the cognitive realm) that the planet is engulfed by red mist, and imply that he is under attack from the outside. Furthermore, in the epilog it is said by the set's faceless immortal "recent advances made civilization here too dangerous... So we have decided to remove life on this sphere... You will be allowed to serve in another realm". Does anyone need any further proof that someone who does not belong on Scadrial is muddying things up? I personally think this is odium's work. and part, and i emphasize part, of the reason harmony is open to hoid's own letter but cannot help him. Also the oblivious way the facelees immortal is behaving is very close to the disregard of the fused of their own lives.

I did a search on the forums and haven't found anyone asking, who is "the series" that Suit mentions near the end of BoM? Is this maybe the off world red eyes organization, and the set is the on world branch? Or is it simply another rank? I also can't help but notice the math/numerology language: series, set, sequence, array...(suit is the only small outlier, but I just might not know the reference). Does this smell like autonomy? ....maybe?

Are we SURE it's Odium attacking Harmony at Scadrial? If Harmony had to divest himself of power to keep them away from Odium. He has admitted to being trapped and at odds with his dual natures in the final Letter in Oathbringer. I wonder what character he might choose as successor? Have you? Any thoughts?

In the San Jose signing, we got an interesting tidbit from Sanderson regarding kandra: Now if you remember, before Paalm's little Feruchemical Steel trick, the kandra believed that they are incapable of gaining Allomancy or Feruchemy. This means it's likely that the kandra that Harmony sent off to inter-Shardworld errands worldhopped through non-Allomantic and non-Feruchemical means. Perhaps they just used Harmony's Shardpool. Or maybe Harmony gave some of them a Shardic gift of Worldhopping.Anyway, I think it's highly likely that Paalm was one of these kandra Worldhoppers. After all, she is considered one of the most experienced of the kandra, therefore an obvious candidate for such potentially dangerous missions, and she's also very keen on serving Harmony (at least prior to the Wax assignment): Exploring other worlds would have given Paalm practical knowledge that others on Scadrial (except Harmony) might not know about. This might explain why she knew about microbial infections. (Though it's possible that this is common knowledge among kandra, who might be able to make in-depth observations of infections and allergies in the bodies they eat.)If Paalm was a worldhopper, then she probably gained her "trellium" off-world, perhaps while exploring some random desert planet (*hint* *hint*). She may have already been experimenting with "Alien Hemalurgy" even then, perhaps as a backup plan in case her relationship with Harmony goes south. What's interesting is that, in the end, Paalm may not have been the only kandra who had a beef with how Harmony runs things: Unless, of course, she was suffering from multiple personality disorder, or was being possessed at the time.(Edit: As Oudeis said below, the suicide mechanism is something all the kandra know how to do, so "We" refers to all the kandra, not just a certain rogue group. That makes everything I said beyond this point more doubtful. But feel free to continue reading, anyway, as I believe they are still valid speculations.) Come to think of it, since Paalm only seemed to rebel after her fake death, it might be more likely that a group of rogue kandra recruited Paalm after that event. They may even be the ones who originally obtained trellium off-world, and simply gave Paalm a spike she could use. So, to repeat, I'm speculating that there is a group of rogue kandra who would rather commit suicide than be controlled by Harmony. These kandra may have also been part of Harmony's special worldhopping team, but somehow became disgruntled (or corrupted). Imagine such a group meeting in secret during one worldhopping mission, far away from Harmony's reach, discussing goals that aren't necessarily in line with Harmony's plans. On the other hand, if there is such a group of rogue kandra, why didn't they help Paalm during her attempts at revolution? Or did they? First, it's possible that not everyone in the group agreed with Paalm's plans. But assuming such a group does exist, I can think of two ways they may have helped Paalm. 1) they may have helped in creating her Hemalurgic chimera (or they may have lent her a portion of their existing Hemalurgic chimera army). 2) Some of them may have infiltrated the Set to steer it towards assisting Paalm. Let's take that second possibility one step further. What if the Set itself is the group of rogue kandra, invisible to Harmony, wearing the bones of corrupt noblemen and employing human criminals (e.g. Miles and the Vanishers, the gunmen who fought Wax and MeLaan, etc.) to achieve their goals? What if the real Edwarn Ladrian really did die in that accident, and was replaced by a rogue kandra? He'd just be wearing Edwarn's appearance like a man wears a suit... Like a Mister Suit.

So, here's my second foray into the forums with this theory: I think the Set may have the location of Atium. We know that it takes about 300 years for Atium to regrow, and it's been around that time. I think it may be in the Pits of Eltania. (A location mentioned in the 'Broadsheet' pages of AoL, which supposedly has Koloss. I don't know the reliability of these sheets, though- they honestly seem a lot like tabloids. ) Anyway, in the Final Empire Scadrial, the Kandra (A hemalurgic creation) guarded the Atium. Could it be the Koloss' assignment now? Just an idea. *** It's obvious that Edwarn needed Wax to come to the city, so another Atium related theory I have is that Bloody Tan was an Atium Misting. I have thought long and hard about how he killed Lessie, but were he able to burn Atium, jerking Lessie in the path of Wax's shot would have been simple. This was the catalyst that sent Wax to Elendel, so... Just an idea. Anyone want to chime in??