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  1. There's been a few "sorting the shards into quadrants" "sorting the shards into quadrants and trying to find matching Dawnshards" and similar posts recently, and while I absolutely love reading those, this post is here for less linear thoughts about Adonalsium and the missing shards, but missing shards nonetheless. Let's stop with the preambling and get to what I want to get to: ODIUM and what it means for ADONALSIUM. Let's start by looking at one of the (imho) coolest quote of all the cosmere: Emphasis mine. Source: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Words_of_Radiance/Epigraphs#Chapter_71. Refresher: this is from one of the letters in reply to Hoid, so probably from either a shard or another old, cosmere-aware figure like Frost. So, for the sake of argument, let's assume what they write can be treated as fact. This quote has stuck with me, among others because it makes Odium such an interesting foe and such a cool idea: The hatred of a God, without all the rest of God. I want to talk about this quote some more. Let's reiterate three things: 1. Adonalisum was shattered into 16 pieces. As far as we know, there's no Debris or anything like that left. They're 16 pieces of a whole. Those could have been split up differently, but weren't. It's not a little god with 1/16th of all of Adonalsiums properties, but with ALL of 1 of 16 properties (or 2, in Harmonys case). 2. Rayse Odium calls himself Passion and sais that that's what they are. Passion. Emotion. He even tells Dalinar that he's the only one of the gods that understands human emotion, that knows it. 3. Despite this, everyone else more or less agrees that Odium is first and foremost Hatred. The way he is described in text and in universe is as seething, hating, hot and burning and hateful. Now, what am I trying to say: What does this mean for Adonalsium? Well, one of multiple things. That depends on what the last two shards are. We know almost nothing about Adonalsium, yet, sadly. But here's my thoughts, which I hope to make understandable: I really hope atleast one of the last two shards is an emotion. Something like "Love" is a common guess, but even just something like "Care" or "Charity" (which the ancient greeks would argue was one of multiple forms of love anyway). Seriously. Because if there isn't another Emotion-Shard, then Rayse/Passion is right. In that it isn't just Hate, but all emotions/passions. Or rather, all the emotions/passions Adonalsium was capable of. It's why I refer to it as Passion in the title of this post. Let's look at the quote about it again: Virtues. Not "other emotions." Now, we can argue that Virtues are an emotional thing, but I think the semantics are clear. The letter doesn't say "without the other emotions." or, the very clear thing many religions irl share: "His Love" There's a few conclusion to be drawn from this, and I will list those in a second, but I want to first look at the shards again to underline this. Virtues: Honor, Autonomy, Ambition, Mercy, Valor, (Wisdom, Prudence) Divine Properties: Endowment, Dominion, Devotion, maybe Cultivation? Forces of Creation/Nature: Preservation, Ruin, maybe Cultivation? Uh, no idea: Whimsy, Invention. To be clear: This isn't supposed to be a sorting or anything like that. I don't think this is how the shards are grouped or even if they are grouped. The point of this list is to drive home the point that none of these are emotions. There sure are some Virtues, especially Honor and Mercy and Wisdom stand out as ones that sound like they would give Odium much needed context. But, again, none of these are emotions. (Is bravery an emotion? I wouldn't say so. Semantics, maybe) This leads me to a few possible conclusions: 1: One of the two so far unknown shards is also about emotions. Especially "Love" or one of its derivatives would of course fit a God the way we on earth imagine it well, and would make a good counter to Odium. I know there aren't clear pairs, but another shard of emotion would mean Adonalsium had atleast two different distinct emotions or emotional states. Because otherwise... 2a: (Odium is the only Emotion Shard and Rayse is lying about Odium = Passion) Adonalsium was a deeply hateful being. If it was shattered into 16 Aspects of its being, and only one of them is emotion, and that is pure Odium, Adonalsium must have been hateful in the same fulfilling, allencompassing way that Odium is. If Odium is "Just Adonalsiums Hatred without The Rest" and none of "The Rest" are emotions, then Adonalsium felt basically the same way that Odium does. Hate with a hint of Anger for a rare change. Even the better version of this isn't much better: 2b: (Odium is the only Emotion Shard and Rayse is right about Odium = Passion) Adonalsium was a deeply hateful being anyway. If Odium is the only emotion shard, and is not "God's own Divine Hatred" but rather "God's own Divine complex emotions", then well, Adonalsiums complex emotions must still have been hugely dominated by Hate. 3: Odium is all emotion that Adonalsium could feel and just got the way it is after the Shattering. Maybe "God's Divine Passions/Emotions" is up to interpretation the way Ruin could be slow decay or active Catastrophes, and it got interpreted into Odium. Then again, it sounds like Odium went on his killing spree pretty quickly after the Shattering, so it's not like he started out loving and jolly and became bitter and hateful with lots of time. (4: Adonalisum wasn't a being in the same way that we humans are, its/their emotional state is not really understandable with human understanding of emotion. We don't even know if Adonalsium had a person/vessel/personality/anything, for all we know it could have been a machine or mechanism or a force of nature more than an entity. Does a poisonous plant feel hate when it kills you for eating it? Does a storm, or a robot that was tasked to protect something when it hurts those that try to interfere with its task? Maybe Adonalsium didn't feel much, so much of what it was was Creation, and to argue about Adonalsiums Emotional landscape is futile? The only things we can assume to know are that It experienced bravery, it showed mercy, it cultivated, preserved, and destroyed things, it dominated and was devoted, it invented, it was whimsical, it wanted to survive, it was ambitious, it was autonomous, it endowed things, and: It felt Hate/it hated.) I personally hope for the former for the sake of our heroes and everyone in the cosmere, but let's continue the thoughts based on 2a and 2b for now, because there's some thought that might make these ones more likely. Whether or not Rayse was right is kind of irrelevant. Whether or not Adonalsium felt only Odium or Passion, if that 16th of Adonalsium that was/is Passion was the way back then it is now, well, Adonalsiums emotional landscape was a bad one. Even with the "context", as in "the virtues that gave it context", it doesn't paint the nices picture of the Cosmere's old God. If it's Wisdom keeping Adonalsiums Hate in check then that sounds like they came to the conclusions it's not smart to destroy everything. If it's Honor, then Adonalsiums is sparing lives because of some Oaths or feeling of duty. Cool, I guess. Not kindness, though. Mercy is the biggest candidate for a counterweight, but that to me has bully-vibes still. "I want to kill you tbh but I'm sparing you because I'm so mercyfull" isn't exactly kind either, is it? If that's what Adonalsium was right, then no wonder that a group of people came to conclusion it had to be destroyed. (And if Rayse was an evil leaning person before the Shattering, then no wonder he wanted that Shard in particular. Sounds like one of the few they'd be sure to exist afterwards.) Long, long post. If you read this far, thanks for sticking with it. I'm intrigued if other people thing my argument is conclusive at all, an what your thoughts about this are. Will we get another Emotion Shard? Will we not, and Adonalsium was very hateful? Is it futile to imagine Adonalsiums Emotions the way neurotypical Human Emotions work? Or another possible answer?
  2. Now that Nightblood has consumed (what was left of) Rayse, do you think his personality will become more rayselike? Surely absorbing an entire Vessel will have a lasting effect on our favorite sword-nimi.
  3. The books say that Odium was hurt in his past battles with shards. Does that mean Odium is now renewed/reborn since there is now a "new" one?
  4. So it seems clear in WoR that Rayse was losing control of his power. It is mentioned by the texts from Sazed, power can be seen to be leaking out of him in his discussions with Dalinar and Taravangian, and Sja-Anat is actively working against him. The question though is, why? Was Rayse acting against his Intent? The only thing I can think of was his insistence that his was the shard of Passion, which would then be against the Intent of the shard, however it seemed to me that he was still acting pretty Odious. Any ideas what caused Rayse's rejection by Odium?
  5. The unmade clearly were once something different likely of honor or cultivation. My theory is that they were the dawnshards. My evidence is the abilities of one of the unmade an and the quote of one of the dawnshards. The quote from a poem that jasnah finds while researching in the palinaeum about the dawnshards states roughly it can bind any creature voidish or not. This sounds similar to the unmade that can bind the chosen and allow them to manipulate the surges. However it could just also be that the dawnshard is a reflection of the surge of connection uses by the bondsmith. Also the fact that there are nine unmade indicates that they originate in braize. This is my best guess.
  6. So i ran into this interesting WoB. Tho Cultivation wasn't mentioned here so maybe he is only more worried about Harmony simply because he is a Shard compared to both Hoid/Dalinar. Still interesting nonetheless that he is more worried of Harmony who is so far away who probably doesn't even have plans involving him(or maybe he does with Hoid's letter and he has Kandra's spying on that place) than the actual people causing him problems upfront. Or is it about overconfidence but he isn't that confident enough against Harmony (cause he is a relatively unknown vessel who just randomly joined the game) ? Personally while i do subscribe on the theory that Autonomy may likely be the big bad. It is interesting to find WoB that push the hype of a possible confrontation between the two bigs of Cosmere. Thoughts ?
  7. From the album: Let me have the pain, Dalinar.

    “Let me have the pain, Dalinar,” Odium said. “Give it to me, and never feel guilty again.” “No.” Dalinar hugged The Way of Kings close. “No. I can’t.” Oathbringer chapter 118 Dalinar and Odium made some of my fave parts of Oathbringer!! Also, I can't draw hands.
  8. This WoB suggests Rayse had multiple motives for killing Shards. (Source.) Argent: So, did Rayse choose those Shards [to splinter] because - Brandon Sanderson: He went after Ambition first, but didn’t find Ambition until after going after Devotion and Dominion. But Ambition was number one on his hit list. Argent: Was it because of the Shard or because of the Vessel, or the person? Brandon Sanderson: In this case it was the Shard primarily. He was afraid that this was a Shard that would rival him. But he then got trapped in the Rosharan system. “In this case”? Did Odium have other motives than Shard “rivalry” in other cases? I speculate that Rayse detoured from Ambition to kill his parents Aona and Skai. I characterize Devotion and Dominion’s Mandates (Intents) as “Love” and “Control.” That strikes me as a typical “parenting” combo – one parent keeps the kids under control while the other nurtures and loves them unconditionally. I believe Brandon intended this parenting combination. Devotion and Dominion had a pre-Shattering relationship and came to Sel together. Devotion’s love wanted to grant mortals the gift of magic. Dominion agreed, but only under tight controls. Hence, Sel’s “programmatic” form-based magic. It’s understandable why Odium sought Ambition first. It’s understandable why he later sought Honor, his magical antithesis. (Honor binds; Odium severs.) But why Devotion? Dominion maybe, but both of them? And so early in his killing spree? What kind of threat could they pose to chase them down first? Compared to his other killings, Odium murdered Skai and Aona in a particularly vicious way. It was personal. Odium wasn’t content to just kill them. He stomped on their souls and stuffed them into the Cognitive Realm. It’s the Shardic equivalent of cutting up your victim and hiding the pieces in the basement. Hoid in the First Letter describes Rayse as “among the most loathsome, crafty and dangerous individuals I had ever met.” That makes you wonder what the criteria were for participating in the Shattering.
  9. In the intro to chapter 72 of WoR there is a section of a letter written to a person who I assume to be Hoid. It is talking about Rayse and how the author of the letter thinks he is now simply a force, a slave to his Shard. It then states that the recipient of the letter (Hoid potentially) insists that this is not the case. I'm not sure what to make of this but it does seem interesting that Hoid would insist that Rayse has not been completely taken over by his Shard.
  10. During my reread of TWoK, this death rattle stood out to me. My working theory is that these are the thoughts of Cultivation, reflecting on her current situation. All is Withdrawn for Me - While there's still a lot of story left to tell in the SA, Cultivation does not seem as active in the conflicts on Roshar as Honor/Odium, especially now. There are lots of magic systems going on, but the main battle seems to slate the Knights Radiant/Heralds (Honor) against the Voidbringers/Unmade (Odium). Where is Cultivation in this? Withdrawn. The One Who Saved My Life - Odium, whom Cultivation now stands against. Why? Because... The One Who Killed My Promises - Odium, who killed Honor (her promises/oaths/commitments). I'm wondering if Rayse somehow helped Cultivation's Vessel in the past (maybe on Yolen?), or perhaps there's more to the shardic interaction than we realize. Maybe Honor had become a threat to Cultivation and Odium saved her by splintering Honor. We know that Honor has focuses on oaths and binding and ideals, while Cultivation seems an intent focused on growth and progression and expansion. I Raise My Hand - a clear reference to Rayse (that's stupid) I Raise My Hand. The Storm Responds - Cultivation acknowledges Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow in the storms, who acknowledges her, however in his splintered and dead state, all she gets is the storm, which from our limited interactions with the Stormfather (and the driving insane power of a highstorm) doesn't seem super happy. She sees her lost love and longingly reaches for his hand, but gets the rage of the storm in return. Speculation. It puts Odium in a somewhat tragic place, a tragedy that I think we'll learn more about as the story unfolds (the Vessel of Divine Hatred? What a prison!). May we learn more in Oathbringer!
  11. It's rather unnerving that Brandon refuses to call the man who showed up at the end of the Way Of Kings 'Talenel'. He talks about him "the man who calls himself Taln". One theory is that Talenel is so broken that he is not the man he was anymore. So he used to be Talenel, but that man is dead. Simple explanation, could be probable, but I am not sure Brandon actually would have gone with that. Here is some ungrounded theorising without (almost) any proof. Since this "Taln" (from now on I will simply call him Taln and the "real" Herald Talenel'Elin) thinks about constant torture and fire and his mantra is something a Herald could definitely say, then I suppose he really was in Damnation (on Braize). Since Talenel was there for 4500 years, somebody who was there with him could definitely have his words ingrained (is this good word?) in his mind. Even if he does not know the language it is spoken in (but I suppose Shardholder would know). Well, of course there could be another inhabitant of Braize, nobody said that Heralds are the only ones tortured by Odium. But Hoid seems to know him - well, I suppose he knows Heralds, but that is not what we're talking about here - and Hoid knew Rayse. So it could be him. Now, how the hell Rayse ended up in this situation? Maybe he got sick of being force of evil, maybe his mind broke from this constant hatred, maybe he couldn't cope with being responsible for so many genocides and death of his fellow Shardholders. Maybe he gave up Odium and switched with someone, then went to atone for his deeds in place of Talenel. Maybe the person he switched with was Talenel and Talenel took up Odium. Or maybe Talenel soloed him and won. Well, he already was in place which he couldn't die in, no matter the damage done to him. He was effectively immortal and even had his Honorblade! Who could stop him from going against Odium? Of course, the Oathpact and mechanism of Desolations may be grounded on him being tortured, but Talenel could have finally broken after thousand or two of torture meant for ten people and gone rampage. And killed defeated Rayse, but was forced to take his place. Or maybe someone entirely different took up Odium. But before Odium changed holders, he activated the time-trigger and the Desolation still was started eventually (remember, the start is when voidspren are released, the rest is just matter of time). The important bit is that Rayse was exposed to Heralds' Torture, broke, and was finally released to Roshar, and anything that was left in his mind was the words that Talenel repeated for thousands of years. Yeah, yeah, I know it's far fetched, but this whole thing with "Taln" is boiling my mind Disclaimer: I don't really believe that Taln is Rayse. I just thought "hey, what if... the man we thought was Herald is in fact the person who held the power which is a Big Bad?"
  12. Can you drop a shard? The first time we've seen a shard be passed is When Leras died, and Vin absorbed all of her Power, becoming Preservation. The second time, both Vin and Ati got killed, and Sazed took up both of their Powers. Eventually, the Shard molds people into following their Intent. Ati was a Nice guy, but became Ruinous. Why couldn't Ati have seen what was happening and just dropped the Shard for a While to Recover, then Picked it back up before it gained Sentience? If it's impossible to drop a Shard except by dieing, Couldn't the shards have been forced on People? Vin didn't want the Shard, she was going to Kill Marsh when it was forced upon her, she couldn't say no. What if some of the 16 Didn't want their shards? EDIT: Aether of Night is Non-Cannon, so Evidence from there will not be accepted. Just saying. Especially seeing as it can't be discusssed here.
  13. Brandon's been answering some questions on Reddit, and he just said some pretty cool stuff. This quite clearly implies that Hoid wrote the letter, personally my mind is made up on the matter. Many thanks to Nepene for so quickly letting us know about this revelation... Also, Shadesmar! This info comes from here.
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