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I have had a weird idea for a while now and wanted to share it. It seems like the consensus on Kaladin’s arc has involved him coming to terms with his limits, as a surgeon, a leader and a radiant. First ideal helps him deal with his depression, second ideal states his purpose, third ideal refines it, and the fourth ideal limits it to within reason. To me it always seemed like he has been controlling his passions. It always seemed like he had to protect almost compulsively and the fourth ideal assisted him with that. Could he be highly connected to Honor (Child of Tanavast) but also highly connected to Odium? Didn’t Cultivation tell a certain someone that he was chosen to wield Odium ‘honorably.’ The current vessel of Odium never really struck me as honorable in the vein of Tanavast. Maybe she wasn’t talking about That person. Wouldn’t Kaladin be a great holder of Odium? A man of passion bound by honorable intent? Wouldn’t this be even greater as he reaches the 5th ideal and his spirit web irrevocably (maybe?) changes? Not sure but would love to hear thoughts. Thank you

Just fleshing this one out. Im not very realmatic and I think this pushes the boundaries of what we know so I thought you guys could help (expand, denounce, enjoy, etc). To start with I want to point out the importance of perception in the Cosmere, especially where investiture is invloved. And also consider Odium has already convinced at least one civilization he is Passion - ok, talking about the Fuzed and ancient singers and I known he didnt get all of them, but they are an invested people so maybe this "hack" works better with them.. Also is this the only culture hes integrated with as "Passion" i wonder? Now the big Q: what if Odium is using "Passion" to gain "access" to more investiture? Now im not saying that there's no passion in hatred, but I do want to point out Passion isnt an emotion dedicated to hate alone - especially when looking at other Shards intents. Have a look at the shards Odium has already broken and consider the potential "passion" involved with their intent. Hmmm, i wonder if a Vessaless shard is easier to "access"..? Now back to the question, im not trying to suggest Odium is doing this for more power as it has been stated a few times he does not want anothers intent to influence him. Im thinking more abstractly regarding what this "access" intales. For example if someone invokes passion it gives the big O a window to view them, and knowledge for a General in wartime is quite important. Thats just an example, what do we think? !~ HIF ~!

A couple of precursors: I haven't really written much on this website before, so apologies if I don't know how to tag spoilers, do quotes, explain myself intelligently, etc. If someone else has already talked about this, I apologize for stepping on your toes. I'm not always on the site so I don't know what I might have missed. This is kind of two topics, but they tie together in my mind. Apologies in advance if it seems disjointed to you. With that out of the way, I wanted to talk about the similarities between Ruin and Odium, and-- more importantly-- speculate about what those similarities might mean and why they might exist. The idea that started me thinking this was Odium and Ruin's interesting use of the word passion. As most of us know, Odium tries to convince Dalinar that his intent is about more than just hate, but passion as a whole: “They call me Odium,” the old man said. “A good enough name. It does have a certain bite to it. But the word is too limiting to describe me, and you should know that it is not all I represent.” “Which is?” He looked to Dalinar. “Passion, Dalinar Kholin. I am emotion incarnate. I am the soul of the spren and of men. I am lust, joy, hatred, anger, and exultation. I am glory and I am vice. I am the very thing that makes men men. Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 551). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. I noticed as I was rereading the Hero of Ages that Ruin says something similar: “This work I do, it’s about passion, Vin. It’s about dynamic events; it’s about change! That is why you and your Elend are so important to me. People with passion are people who will destroy— Sanderson, Brandon. Mistborn Trilogy (Kindle Locations 30922-30923). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Note especially the way the word is written in both cases: italicized. Outside the Alcatraz series, Brandon rarely uses italics for emphasis. The fact that both these characters would talk about their passion in this italicized way really stuck out to me. I thought that I might just be overthinking a small coincidence, but then I came across this WoB: Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was it relevant that Ruin mentioned Passion to Vin? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. source So now that I knew it was an important connection, I started to look into other ways that Ruin and Odium are similar other than just the way they talk about their intent. Some other possibilities that I came with: They are both vessels. This is obvious, but easy to overlook. Maybe all vessels just feel this way about their intent. Both had plans to cause cosmere wide destruction. Odium, with his "hit list" of other vessels, and Ruin, because his intent would have driven him to continue to destroy other planets after Scadrial was no more. They have both spent time being trapped (Ruin in the prison Preservation created, Odium trapped by the Oathpact) Both tried to forge "champions" that ended up working against them. Brandon says in the annotations to the Hero of Ages that for some unknown reason Preservation had chosen Vin from a young age, and that ruin worked to corrupt Vin after Preervation chose her (Annotation Chapter 79). Similarly, Honor for unknown reasons gave visions to the Kholins (starting with Gavilar, I know). All the while, Odium was hard at work trying to corrupt Dalinar and turn him into his champion. Interestingly enough, both of these individuals ascended and used their power to fight against the force that had tried to turn them. Probably lots of other important/relevant connections I'm too tired to think of at the moment. Since I was curious about the first bullet above-- that maybe all shards just act this way-- I decided to ask Brandon the following questions last Saturday: Valhalla [PENDING REVIEW] Ruin and Odium, they both talked about their passion, and it was italicized both times. Would any other Shards talk about passion in that same italicized way? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes they would. Valhalla [PENDING REVIEW] Would any of them not talk about it that way? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes they would. Excellent, good questions. source This made it very clear that the passion connection is not an inherent thing that all vessels share, nor is it something that is unique to Ruin and Odium. So, what do all the similarities between Ruin and Odium actually mean? And how does passion play into it? I'd love to hear your theories, because frankly none of the ideas I have come up with seem to add up, but I will throw out a few ideas to get the discussion started. Theory #1: They are both being acted upon by an outside force One theory that I developed is that they are both somehow being controlled/manipulated by the same outside force. There are a few problems with this. The first is that vessels like Rayse and Ati both have a lot of raw power and a large amount of knowledge and cosmere awareness, making them difficult to manipulate. The only beings who seem capable of manipulating a vessel would be another vessel. However, its possible that because both Ruin and Odium have been trapped with at least a portion of their full power made temporarily unavailable to them that they have been left in a state in which they would be more suggestible or otherwise duped. This still doesn't explain who would want to do it, how they would accomplish it, and why they would make both Ruin and Odium so focused on their passion. So, yeah, this theory is very much a work in progress. Theory #2: Ruin and Odium were working together So this theory relies on kind of a stretch to the answers to my questions; basically, that you can split all vessels into two groups: those who have passion, and those that don't. The passionate vessels like Ruin, Odium, and apparently others decided to group up to help accomplish their goals, especially those goals that the non-passionates might have attempted to stop. While doing so, they realize that they are more than just one intent, but that they are also a force of Passion in their worlds. They also realize that the names assigned to their intents, like ruin or odium, tend to have negative connotations and so when they interact with humans they tend to bring forth their passion instead. This theory works on a logical level, but it doesn't work on a storytelling level. I doubt Ati and Rayse are just repeating the mantra from their support group for passionate shards. There has to be more to it than that. Theory #3: Insert your theory here I had a couple more ideas, but they all have even bigger holes than the ones I mentioned. This would be easier if we had a third shard that we knew would describe itself as passion, so that we could make more connections. I am interested to hear your thoughts. Why does it matter that both Ruin and Odium talk about passion in italics? What shards have we met that would be passionate? What theories do you have about the connections between these two shards? And finally, does the fact that I stayed up to 2 A.M. on a weekday to write and research this post because I'm so passionate about this particular cosmere puzzle indicate that I, like Ruin and Odium, am a major antagonist intent on causing chaos and destruction throughout the known universe?