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Found 3 results

  1. So in the book Oathbringer, it is revealed that the Recreance happened in part due to finding out that this land was rightfully singer (Parsh), but more due to the fear that surgebinders would destroy Roshar, just as they destroyed the Tranquiline Halls - presumably Ashyn, or whatever planet they previously came from. However, why did the Radiants not think that they destroyed that planet due the influence Odium had on their surgebinding? - and I assume in that age they were doing voidbindings instead of surgebindings. They survived millennia on Roshar with their surgebindings as they were under the influence of Honor and Cultivation. Why would they think that they were still somehow going to destroy it? Now back to the 1st point - rightful parsh land. I think it is correctly assumed that this in whole wouldn't and didn't cause the Recreance. Humans generally don't feel remorse over the fact that they are defending invaded land - they do it all the time against other humans (and this is in real life, and on Roshar). Humans are greedy like that, even if they are 'noble' Radiants, as their spren themselves didn't view it in a bad light.
  2. This completely insane theory occurred to me when I was watching the allomantic metals chart on the coppermind after reading this thread. So my theorie is this: there are actually 16 surges and each knight radiant gets three surges. So I think there are sixteen surges because there are sixteen shards of adonalsium, that alone is not enough evidence. But, there are sixty-four allomantic metals which divided by four gives us the modern metals, the god metals and two more sets of metals( the only MB books I read are the first three and like three chapters of wax and wayne, but I suspect that one of these sets is made off of alloys of the metal that gave the first mistborns their powers) now if you take the modern metals you can divide them into four groups of four metals: the physical the mental(cognitive), the enhancement (I believe spiritual realm because it deals with power?) and the temporal ( I feel like time exists in a different way in the Cosmere. In earth time doesn't really exist in the sense that allows one to time travel, because what happened a long time ago isn't happening anymore. But in the Cosmere this isn't true, the things that happened a long time ago are still happening somewhen. This is why the temporal metals exist even though there is no temporal realm). Each quadrant has four types of metal, again we divide four by four giving us: the pushing metals, the pulling metals, the external metals and the internal metals. As I have said above this information alone is not enough, this could be scadrial's magic system, however one must keep in mind that there are sixteen shards of Adonalsium(which can also be made into groups of four: spiritual, physical, temporal and cognitive which can be further divided by four etc.etc.). And preservation refers to 16 as the number humankind could never forget. Now, you may have noticed that the Cosmere is somewhat obsessed with the number 16 and therefore 4 and 2 (4×4=16 and 2×2×2×2=16 and whatnot). Now, if you try to break down the number 10 (I think it's called making it into factors or something but I didn't learn maths in English so I don't know), you get 5×2. I still think there were 10 orders of knights radiant and all of the other 10s. Another thing that makes me believe there are actually sixteen surges is that the surges weren't listed by a sliver. In HoA harmony states that the lord ruler gained a lot of knowledge ( regarding investiture and its uses) when he ascended, and he was the one that made the metals chart. I don't know what the heralds are but I don't think they have as much investiture as a sliver, has khriss states in the scadrial essay that scadrial is the planet where it is relatively easier for regular people to come into contact with vast amounts of investiture and the heralds were once regular people (I think it's in one of the first chapters of WoK). This is where @glamdring804 's theory comes in. I believe we have seen opposing surges, however they are seperate surges. I also think that knights radiant get three surges one set of external/internal surges and an extra. I'm not sure if the surges can be accounted for has primery, secondary and tertiary in the sense that one is more powerful than the others. Another one of the reasons I also think that the kr get three surges is because the heralds have three attributes. When they became the ten fools their main attribute was corrupted. I think they still have their main attributes buried somewhere because darkness doesn't do anything to lift (after he admits he has failed) because let's face it, lift committed many (minor) crimes, judgement would drive darkness to at least fine lift or something, but justice acknowledges that these (minor)crimes were committed for a good cause. And the corrupted attribute is almost opposite to the main attribute. So, I will now give you my opinion on the surges individually and how they should be organized. I think they were listed incorrectly due to vorinistic bias. -Adhesion- "The surge of pressure and vaccum" I'm pretty sure pressure and vaccum aren't the same thing in fact they are opposites. When something is under pressure its being pushed outward trying to expand and uncompress, while something that is in vaccum is being pulled inward trying to fill the void. I think that this surge was listed incorrectly. And windrunners clearly only use vaccum when they use a full lashing. I have no idea what the surge of pressure would do. Maybe OB will shed some light on this topic. -Gravitation- "The surge of gravity" more like the surges of gravity. Basic lashings could be pushing and the reverse lashings could be pulling because they give objects a gravitational pull( or it might be the other way around I don't know). -Division- "The surge of destruction and decay" I think that this is also two surges in one. Decay and destruction aren't the same thing. Decay happens slowly( wherever this one is in the "surges chart" its where ruin should be listed under in the "shards chart"), whereas destruction is more immediate and brutal. I think that decay is the internal surge and desctrution the external one. I also think that these are temporal surges has something can only decay, heal and grow in time; destruction doesn't take that much time but its clearly external to decay. -Abrasion- "The surge of friction" This is only one surge. I think this is one of the physical surges. And its the edgedancer's "extra", well its not really an extra but I think I already said that. -Progression- "The surge of growth and healing, or regrowth" So I believe this are two different surges and that they are the edgedancers main surges. -Illumination- "The surge of light, sound, and various waveforms" So, this is only one surge, its the lightweavers main surge, and its the one that the truthwatchers get for having its opposing surge. In WoR we learn that illumination's internal surge enables someone to witness, in some way, things that are happening or maybe that have already happened or will happen. @Glamdring804 said I at first thought this was related to Shallan's mnemonic ability, something all Lightweavers are known to have. However, sprocket44 on Reddit pointed out that this might actually be another application of Illumination. Specifically, it seems to be similar to how Renarin, a Truthwatcher, "sees" things. I think this is another surge entirely and I'll just call it the "truthwatching surge" for now ( if you come up with any name suggestions for the surges that have no names please tell me, because "the surge used for reverse lashings" doesn't quite roll off the tongue) -Transformation- "The surge of soulcasting" This is only one surge, i think it may be cognitive. -Transportation- "The surge of motion and realmatic transition" I think that this is two surges in one.Motion and realmatic transition ( the real transportation surge I think ). The fact that motion and realmatic transition were assumed to be one surge means that elsecallers are the only order of kr that can use motion or realmatic transition, because they are not on the same quadrant on the "surges chart". -Cohesion- "The surge of strong axial interconnection" This is only one surge and its opposite is clearly "the surge of strong axial interconnections". In fact that they are not considered one surge means there is no order of kr that has them as a main surge. -Tension- "The surge of strong axial interconnection" This is just one surge, and its opposite is cohesion what this surge does I have no idea. This is how I think the surges should be organized ("surges chart"), they are 16: -the surge used for reverse lashings- the spiritual external pushing surge. -Vaccum- the spiritual internal pulling surge. -The surge used for basic lashings- the spiritual external pushing surge. -Pressure- the spiritual internal pushing surge. -Healing- the tempuraal internal pushing or pulling surge. -Growth- the temporal external pushing or pulling surge (whichever is healing's, this means the if healing is the pushing surge then growth is the pushing surge but, if healing is the pulling surge then growth is the pulling surge) -Decay- the temporal internal pushing or pulling surge -Destruction- the temporal external pushing or pulling surge (whichever is decay's) -Illumination- the cognitive external pushing or pulling surge -"Truthwatching surge"- the cognitive internal pushing or pulling surge (whichever is illumination's) -Transformation- the cognitive external pushing or pulling surge. -Transportation- the cognitive internal pushing or pulling surge (whichever is transformation) -Coheson- the physical internal pushing or pulling surge -Motion- the physical external pushing or pulling surge (whichever is cohesion's) -Tension- the physical internal pushing or pulling surge -Abrasion- the physical external pushing or pulling surges (whichever is tension's). This is the kr orders surges (the orders that we know): -order name- External surge/internal surge--extra surge -Windrunners- Reverse lashing surge/vaccum--basic lashing surge. -Lightweavers- Illumination/"truthwatching" surge-- transformation -Elsecallers- Transportation/transformation--motion -Edgedancers- Growth/healing--abrasion. -Truthwatchers- "Truthwatching surge"/illumination -- ???? So, feel free to shoot my theory to the ground. And if you agree with me then look for more 16 in the Cosmere.
  3. It seems to me that Gavilar is the link between all the groups and organisations across Roshar. He possessed a certain knowledge which he ironically shared with everyone but his own family which now has kind of formed the Knight Radiants. Starting with the followers of Diagram, we see that Taravangian in his moment of reflection after he becomes the king of Jah Keved thinking about how he had followed Gavilar’s instructions to unify the world for survival and he also knew that Gavilar had visions from Honor which foretold of the Everstorm. Also, Amaram when he sneaks in to inspect Taln and steal the shardblade wonders that the heralds are real and murmurs “Gavilar, we have done it. We have finally done it” which leads me to think that Amaram and Sons of Honor’s motivations are also linked to Gavilar. Though I don’t know what exactly Gavilar has shared with them, probably something about the return of the Heralds and facing the Desolations. This could be something similar to what the Envisagers wanted maybe, where they tried to bring back Knight Radiants the Restares are trying to get back the Heralds, I mean they want the dominance of the Church and they would want their Gods back to help them survive. The Parshendi of course knew what Gavilar was planning. On the shattered plains when Adolin was facing Eshonai in his father’s shardplate, she says that Gavilar was trying to bring their gods back and that would have led to complete destruction. As their gods had once forced the forms upon them and the only way they could have freedom was by devolving to the dullform. (this makes me think that the Parshmen and Parshedi are of Odium). Even the Ghostbloods, before dying Gavilar thought Szeth was sent by Thaidakar, the man who leads the Ghostblood. And the Heralds were also involved as Nalan was there at the treaty signing party and they were discussing how their conditions are getting worse specifically mentioning Ash (shalash). Also, Nalan reveals to Lift that what she is must be stopped as it would return desolation so maybe they were there to stop Gavilar as he wanted to refound the Knight Radiants. So, it seems to me like every road leads to Gavilar. Something is happening that all these secret societies know and Gavilar was the trigger that started the chain of events by discovering the secret that led to his assassination by the Parshendi bringing the fate of Roshar together. And now everyone is either following or trying to stop Gavilar’s work by attempting to unify mankind or trying to stop the desolation.
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