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      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
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  1. As much as I loved Oathbringer, there is one aspect that left me feeling unfulfilled, and that is Kaladin’s character progression, or lack thereof. He's my favorite character so I am attentive and sensitive to his specific storyline. By the end of the book I felt that he had no growth, no successes, several failures, and little impact on the story overall. I thought he had a few nice moments with his family, Bridge Four, and Syl, and made some progress with his negative thought patterns and mental state, but these things seemed to have very little effect on his actions within the story. Note the results of his specific plot threads: Hearthstone (Fail/No Impact/Unresolved) Kaladin’s goal here was to warn and prepare the town for the everstorm. He arrived too late for that. Once he reached the citylord manor, the town residents had already organized themselves, injuries were treated, and they were as safe as could be expected in the circumstance. He left to search for the parshmen with the promise to return at a later time. By the end of the book Alethkar had been taken over by voidbringers and the Alethi are captured or taking refuge in other countries. Kaladin never returned to check on his family and we don’t know their current status. Parshmen (Fail/Unresolved) Kaladin spent most of Part 1 traveling with the parshmen. He befriended them and taught them basic survival skills. This sets up an interesting dilemma for him. He feels empathy with these people and begins to question the “us and them” mentality, who the real enemies are, and the distinction between untransformed parshmen/former slaves vs. fused/voidforms/agents of Odium. He abruptly flies away from his friendly parshmen at the end of Part 1 and we never fully revisit this issue. He had one argument with Jasnah in Part 2, but otherwise there is no resolution or further discussion about how to handle the parshmen or the human prisoners left in pens in Alethkar. Additionally, Kaladin’s band of friendly parshmen became Moash’s team and participated in the king’s assassination and overtaking the palace. Kholinar (Fail) The objective here was to rescue the queen and prince and open the oathgate so the Alethi troops could retake Kholinar. Turns out that Aesudan is hosting an unmade, Gavinor is taken by the enemy, Elhokar is dead, the palace and Kholinar are lost, Kaladin goes catatonic while watching his men kill each other, the oathgate is inhabited by another unmade, and our four surviving heroes end up trapped in Shadesmar. Kaladin’s squires were left behind, and they were the ones to rescue Gavinor and bring him to safety, a task Elhokar has specifically assigned to Kaladin. Protect Dalinar (Fail/Low Impact) Kaladin’s time in Shadesmar primarily revolves around the vision of Dalinar with nine shadows and his strong sense of urgency to get to Thaylen City to protect Dalinar. They arrive at the Thaylen City oathgate to find it guarded by fused. Kaladin tries to distract them, but ultimately runs out of stormlight and falls into the sea of beads, where he is rescued by Syl. They are finally saved by Dalinar’s perpendicularity, which happens after his confrontation with Odium. Kaladin played no part in that fight, so his vision had no real purpose or payoff. He later distracts the fused as Dalinar confronts Nergaoul, but Kaladin had very little impact on that fight. Probably any member of Bridge Four could have filled this role for Dalinar. Fourth Ideal (Fail) Several scenes in the book seem to foreshadow Kaladin’s speaking the fourth ideal. This includes the wind-shield scene in Part 1 and the wind spren forming around him in Shadesmar. In part 5, he finally gets to the point where he knows the words and tries to speak them, but he cannot bring himself to do it. He breaks down in tears and is comforted by Syl, resulting in the biggest let-down moment of the entire book (for me). Compare this to Teft, who has apparently said three ideals in the same book and is now at the same level as Kaladin. Amaram (Fail) Amaram has been Kaladin's arch nemesis since Book 1 Chapter 1. A final confrontation between the two of them has been overshadowing Kaladin’s story for three books, and as a reader I have been anxiously awaiting it. We finally get to it in Part 5. Not only is he confronting Amaram, he is also confronting an unmade, Yelig-nar (Blightwind). The symmetry of having Shallan confront Re-Shephir, Dalinar confront Nergaoul, and Kaladin confront Yelig-nar in the same book seems so perfect. Each of these unmade have a resonance with their respective orders and personalities. Well, Kaladin fails again here. He runs out of stormlight and is nearly killed by Amaram/Yelig-nar, only to be rescued in the last minute by Rock, who makes the killing blow. Shallan (Fail/No impact) The weird love triangle. The entire purpose of this sub-plot seems to have been to highlight Shallan’s multiple personas. One of them likes Adolin, one of them likes Kaladin, they other one is just confused. In the end, Shallan determines that Veil, the persona who likes Kaladin, has bad taste in men. Shallan does not realize that these personalities are all part of her and that these are her own thoughts and feelings. She has no growth from this situation and she seems to be worse off at the end of the book than when she started. Kaladin also has no growth from it. The Helaran discussion did not come up at all. This whole arc seems to have had very little impact on the story or characters. Mental Issues (Progress/No Impact/Unresolved) This is one area that Kaladin seems to have made some progress. Unfortunately, none of this progress seemed to have any positive effect on the events of the story. He stepped up as a radiant and stopped hiding. His attitude towards lighteyes was greatly improved, to the point that he became friends with a group of lighteyed soldiers whose deaths he later mourned. He did not flinch when referred to as “Brightlord.” When he felt himself slipping into a dark place after the Kholinar catastrophe, he reflected on his depression, determined that it was illogical, and talked to Shallan about how she stays positive. These are big steps for him and I would have loved to see him be extra-awesome as a result of these positive changes. Instead, his actions and failures all seem to be ruled by his primary unresolved issue, which is guilt and grief over the people he failed to protect. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I find it odd that one of the main protagonists of the series would spend an entire 1200+ page book with very little growth, impact or resolution, so perhaps I am missing something important. Did others feel this way, or do you think he made progress as a character? Was he put on hold to be continued at a later date due to the vast amount of material in this book? Is the lack of forward momentum part of his development? Why would he go stagnant at a time where he is embracing his radiant-ness? Are all of these failures tied to his Fourth Ideal in some way? I want to find the progression for his character in this book, and I’m not sure what it is.
  2. Hello Guys, While reading Oathbringer (amazing experience by the way), the exchange between Kaladin and Jasnah (Chapter 39, Page 467) struck me as a relationship that just might work. I thought of this because I believe it would be so cliche if BS takes Shallan from Adolin (that combo already works IMHO) Kaladin with Jasnah works perfectly especially with when Kaladin falls into his auto depression mode, Jasnah can easily logic him back to focus and Kal can give Jasnah the tilt to human emotions(Lol!). And please don't talk about the age difference. The book already is as liberal as it gets with Drehy being gay..
  3. Towards the end of Oathbringer, Moash was given a special knife with which he killed Jezrien and was later given the Herald's shardblade. With Jezrien being the first Herald to die a true death (which probably means he cannot be resurrected), Is Moash going to the the newchampion of Odium?
  4. In one of Dalinars flashbacks, he met a beggar in The Beggar's Court at the Royal Palace to share his drink. Could this beggar have been Jezrien, The Herald King, Patron of the Windrunner later killed truly by Moash?
  5. Totally legit Oathbringer Post Credits Scene: Kaladin sat in his barrack room alone, studying a folio on military tactics. After finally obtaining married housing for Rock and his family, Kaladin had moved back into his old rooms. Out of the corner of his eyes, Kaladin noticed a twisting figure slip under his door and slide across the room. It finally halted, sitting on the border between Jah Keved and Alethkar, buzzing in his bizarre rhythms. “Umm…Pattern?” “Yes?” “Did you…need something?” “No. Shallan kicked me out. She said to come bother you.” “Why…?” Oh. Sighing, Kaladin returned to his folio. Or tried to. Pattern sitting on his folio was inconvenient for studying. And for other things, apparently. “Kaladin?” “Hmm” “What is—“ “No. Just no.” … … … “No can be just?” Kaladin groaned.
  6. Happy Oathbringer day, Lets not ruin anyone elses by spoiling the book for the people that may not read as quickly as you, or that may not be as fortunate to have obtained the book on the first day. I love you all my Bridge 4 Bretheren. Happy Reading.
  7. Hello to all!!! Im here at one of my students request that i should join! i have been a fan for a little over 7 years but never came to the 17th shard. One of my students (junior high teacher btw) is an avid fan and loves the community, so im here now! Hi Salazar! Im a huge fan of Kaladin too Thank you all!
  8. Prepare your tinfoil hats and bear with me. So I found this little WoB on facebook: QUESTIONER: Is Adolin and Shallan going to get together, or will Kaladin and Shallan? BRANDON SANDERSON: That is quite the question. I will eventually answer that, but you are getting Read-and-Find-Outed. It is intentionally a bit of a mimicry of something else that happened in the past. [Source: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34-arcanum-unbounded-seattle-signing/#e5903] And it immediately made me (and other people, based on the comments) think of the Honor-Cultivation-Odium situation that supposedly happened. The obvious reaction to that would be that Shallan, as the female is Cultivation and Kaladin, having a HONORspren would be Honor...or would he? Now let's look at this little blurb from the back of WoK: There are four whom we watch. The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar’s mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes. The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key. One of them may redeem us. And one of them will destroy us. So the possibilities for Odium's champion are: - Szeth (too obvious) - Shallan (we already ruled that out) - Dalinar (but it'd spoil his "redemption arc" with turning from being the blood-lusty Blackthorn to being the wise leader) - Kaladin (who even based solely on this blurb I'd guess to be the Champion.) So we have a proof that the "Darth Adolin" theory that became so popular, seeing him as the obvious choice for the Champion is pure chulldung as he's not even mentioned and if this "love triangle" is really supposed to mimic the situation with rosharan shards, we'll probably all cry for Kaladin. A lot. Feel free to yell at me if you disagree or if this has been said before. OB pre-released chapters spoilers hat (I think) back up Kaladin being the Odium's champion:
  9. I feel like I should know the answer to this, but I don't, so, here goes. What is the other Windrunner surge, after gravity?
  10. This will be a short lived poll, but I want to know what you think. Will we hear from Kaladin again in part one? I think so because I don't think we will see him in part 2 at all and there was too much build up with the listeners for him to disappear for the rest of part one and all of part two. As the visual outline at the bottom of the post shows, one of the main three will not be in part 2. WoB is that we will get less Kaladin in Oathbringer, which we have already, but think this means he will be the missing POV in part 2 as well. Dalinar is going to be the POV character in all the parts. I don't think we are going to stop hearing from Shallan any time soon. So Kaladin will disappear after the thrilling cliffhanger at the end of part 1. Now I do think we are getting one more Dalinar chapter as well. So my guess it will be Dalinar followed by Kaladin, or the other way around. Now what do you think? Please let me know in the poll.
  11. Hey guys, so I'm not sure if this is the kind of content you want to see, but I thought it would be fun! You see, I'm not smart enough to contribute to the amazing fan theories, so this is my contribution (; Anyways, so if you're not familiar with the Myer Briggs Type Indicator, it's basically a set of 16 personality types that everyone falls under. (take the test, it's fun) I decided I would try to assign these traits to the Stormlight characters as best I could. If you are familiar (or lowkey obsessed) with MBTI, I hope you can relate with this! Here goes: Kaladin - ISFJ, The Defender. First off, I know the cover image for ISFJ is a smiling, kind woman and that is the exact opposite image that we associate with our boy Kal. But, to quote the article, "Though sensitive, Defenders have excellent analytical abilities; though reserved, they have well-developed people skills and robust social relationships; and though they are generally a conservative type, Defenders are often receptive to change and new ideas." That seems pretty accurate. To break down the different letters, the I stands for Introverted vs Extroverted. We can all agree that Kal is Introverted. S stands for Sensory or obServant vs intuitive. I think as a surgeon, Kal is pretty Sensory. F stands for Feeling vs Thinking, meaning he processes most of his information through emotion. I'd say Kal is a pretty hotheaded guy who doesn't really think before he acts. J means Judging over Perceiving. He is logical and judges situations without the bias of perception. Shallan - ISFP, The Adventurer. I think this is a perfect match. At first I was tempted to say INTP, the Logician, but I think Shallan is more SF than NT. As an artist, she is very Sensory, and as Shallan, she is more of a Feeling person than a Thinking person. She uses the Thinking side of her personality a lot, but her emotions have so much control over her and so much say in her decision-making. As the article says, "Adventurers enjoy upsetting traditional expectations with experiments in beauty and behavior – chances are, they’ve expressed more than once the phrase 'Don’t box me in!'" Shallan most definitely hates being boxed in and trapped, due to her childhood experiences. Another spot-on quote says, "When faced with criticism, it can be a challenge for people with this type to step away from the moment long enough to not get caught up in the heat of the moment." Passionate insult battles, anyone? Adolin - ESFJ, The Consul. I find it hilarious that Adolin and Kaladin are almost identical in personality type, with only the E/I switched. Adolin is the Consul, most definitely. The article says that "Discussing scientific theories or debating European politics isn’t likely to capture Consuls’ interest for too long. Consuls are more concerned with fashion and their appearance, their social status and the standings of other people." That rings a bell to me. We can see that Adolin is a Feeling character rather than a Thinking character. However, he is a Judging character, because he has the innate ability to see people without bias. (Amaram, Sadeas, Kaladin, his dad) Renarin - ISTJ, The Logistician. Honestly, I don't really know Renarin's character too well, so this is a ballpark guess. I am positive that Renarin is Introverted, and I am not sure about the Sensory, but it seems right to me. He is very practical, so I can see him being Sensory. He is definitely a Thinking character, but we don't really know if he's Judging or Perceiving. For now, however, I think Judging is a good guess. Dalinar - ENFJ, The Protagonist. Dalinar is a natural born leader and is amazing at handling people. These traits put him as the Protagonist. "Protagonists radiate authenticity, concern and altruism, unafraid to stand up and speak when they feel something needs to be said... Protagonists easily see people’s motivations and seemingly disconnected events, and are able to bring these ideas together and communicate them as a common goal with an eloquence that is nothing short of mesmerizing." Honestly, the accuracy of this is astounding and a bit creepy. I think Dalinar is the Protagonist poster child. Also, this little quote here, "The interest Protagonists have in others is genuine, almost to a fault – when they believe in someone, they can become too involved in the other person’s problems, and place too much trust in them." Does that sound like a certain Sadeas vs Dalinar situation to you? Bonus note - because parents tend to pass on portions of their personality traits to their kids, we can guess that Shshshsh, Dalinar's mystery wife, is IST-. We can guess that she's IST because Renarin got the I and the T from somewhere and both Adolin and Renarin have an S that didn't come from Dalinar. We don't really know the J/P, because it seems Dalinar passed the J to both Adolin and Renarin. She could be either. Jasnah - ENTJ, The Commander. Jasnah is purely the Commander. The only thing that might be up for debate is the E vs the I, but I think she is more Extroverted than Introverted. She is definitely a Thinking and Judging type, because of her scholarly nature. I think she is iNtuitive over Sensory, but I think we might not know her well enough to discern that. For now, however, I'm sticking with ENTJ. The funny thing is, Shallan is the exact opposite of her, being ISFP, yet the way they interact with others is strikingly similar. Navani - INTP, The Logician. The tagline for the Logician is "Innovative inventors with an unquenchable thirst for knowledge." To me, this describes Navani perfectly. She is the amazingly smart scientist, the adorable nerd and the creative inventor. Navani is an introverted type, but she is so strong around people that we only ever see that side of her around Dalinar. She is an NT, like Jasnah, but she processes information through Perception rather than Judging. This sounds surprising since she is a scientist, but she is a creative and an inventor rather than a scholar. Bonus note - with the info that we have about Jasnah and Navani, we can guess that Gavilar was an E--J. Knowing the little that we know about Gavilar, we can assume he is a Protagonist, like Dalinar. Hoid as Wit - ENTP, the Debater. Hoid is honestly so hard to figure out. This is not my most confident guess, so if you have a better guess please let me know! (Keep in mind we're talking about Hoid as Wit) Wit is definitely Extroverted, moving through the crowds with ease and making fun of talking to people with confidence. "Debaters don’t [play devil's advocate] because they are trying to achieve some deeper purpose or strategic goal, but for the simple reason that it’s fun. No one loves the process of mental sparring more than Debaters, as it gives them a chance to exercise their effortlessly quick wit, broad accumulated knowledge base, and capacity for connecting disparate ideas to prove their points." This sounds like Wit to me. His iNtuitiveness allows him to create beautiful stories that apply to other people's specific situations, while his Perception allows him to poke fun at others with scary accuracy. Because he is a Thinking type, he is analytical and has a pretty good reign on his emotions. Bonus! Syl - ENFP, The Campaigner - Syl is ENFP all the way. She's got the childlike wonder and Perception and the iNtuitiveness that guides her decisions as honorspren in what Feels wrong and right. She is almost the opposite of Kaladin, yet their ideals are very similar. I believe this is what attracted her to Kaladin. Pattern - INTP, The Logician. Pattern, our adorable, miniscule scholar! He is the same Personality type as Navani, INTP. We see his Perception in how he views the world, and his iNtuitiveness and Thought through how he learns and applies those worldviews. He is similar to Shallan, but she is an SF and he is an NT. She an artist in her core, but she loves scholarship, and that is what drew Pattern to her. That's it for now! I hope it was understandable to those who have no clue what the MBTI types are :? I tried to do as many characters as I could, but if you want me to expand on this one let me know what characters to do! Also, if you would like to suggest a change in one I did, feel free-- I'd love to hear your opinions on this! Also, if you have any suggestions for Wit's personality that would be awesome (; Let me know your personality type! I'm INFP, and I'd love to chat with y'all about it. Here's the website where I got all my info, and be sure to take the test! (It's free, fun, and it will tell you things about yourself that are creepily accurate) I may do one for Mistborn! If you would like that, let me know. That's all, Catie
  12. Hi Guys, I dunno if this question had been asked before or if it was explained in the book which i missed somehow. My question is How do they push the Bridge across a 50-100 feet wide chasm? they don't have any support on other side of the chasm, they push only from one, so a bridge which is heavy enough that it takes minimum 25 men to lift it, wont it fall down the chasm once its halfway through the gap? Or since there is no one on the other side, won't it be easier for parshendi to just push it down the chasm once it is near their side? TWP
  13. Necroed Shallan thinks that Amaram killed her brother Helaran, but she's going to find out the truth. At the end of Words of Radiance Amaram confesses to killing the men to take the Shardblade, and Dalinar promises to have a trial for it. When that trial happens, Shallan will find out about Kaladin killing Helaran. Or will she find out before? And how will she react when that happens? Will her friendship with Kaladin be shattered by that? I personally think Shallan will find out from the Ghostbloods, but as to how she'll react, I'm completely unsure.
  14. From the album Vianki's Fanart scenes

    I have always loved the scene where Kaladin overcomes his fear and flies for the first time. This is how I picture his view. (painting the lighting from multiple, differently colored, moons is storming difficult!) Oil on canvas.
  15. Now that Shallan knows that Kaladin is her brother's executioner, how do you think their relationship will play out? I am of the opinion that this will ultimately be beneficial for her, and will help her grow as a Radiant. Consequently, it will also bring them closer together. Think about how events played out for Kaladin. Essentially, he was a weapon, directed by forces beyond his control. He was a victim of circumstance, joining the army in response to his brother's conscription, fighting in pointless skirmishes, unknowing of the larger politics that led to his unfortunate confrontation with Helaran. And it is this act of killing him, against all odds, that led to his ultimate enslavement, and his Shash branding. Once Shallan is made aware of all of these nuances, I predict she will easily forgive him. Now let's examine Shallan's current perspective, and how she is reacting to the news. Mostly, she appears to be in shock. Her response is to suppress the emotions and push away the thoughts. It is premature (and this may get disproved next Tuesday), but Shallan does have a history of suppressing memories, and there might be a little of this going on here. If I am right, and she compartmentalizes this trauma, it will all come out when she finally confronts Kaladin, and may be the catalyst that helps break the walls on other repressed memories, which could help her attain her next Ideal.
  16. I have been wanting to share some thoughts (and some theories) on here for some time as i have on Reddit. i have a few but have decided to start with the one that gained the largest response on Reddit here first to see how it goes. I know its a little controversial, which is why I am starting with this one. I have other more tinfoil ideas as well and hope this goes okay. I have never really shared on here before and i am a little nervous. I hope everyone enjoys my thoughts. Sorry its so long! The first topic I have decided to do was the idea of Kaladin and Shallan and why I feel they are headed toward a romantic relationship. A controversial topic, I know, and not one I exactly relished in when I started WoR. But by the end of the book and where we are left as far as the characters go, it seemed to make more sense to me. 1. parallel stories Sanderson goes to great pains to show parallelism is Kaladin and Shallan’s story arcs while including some obvious differences. I know the same can be said for Kaladin and Dalinar’s story arcs, and that is something I can go into another time, but this is not the place. The mentor and apprentice relationship can be seen through various stories in Stormlight. But the parallelism and relationship that Kaladin and Shallan develop is unique in Stormlight from what we have seen thus far. A nice subtle example of Kaladin and Shallan’s parallel stories is the slave caravan. The caravan that helps Shallan is the same one that had enslaved Kaladin. We are meant to pick up on this. Their travels to the shattered plains are similar yet different. Sanderson points out the marks in the wagon that Shallan notices and contemplates. These are the same marks that were present when Kaladin was in the wagon. This is a nod to their very similar journeys and how their similar yet unshared experiences later help them understand each other and in turn develop further. Some of the other more obvious examples are their hard lives, isolated small town upbringing, love for their siblings, and the intense tragedy they have both witnessed or been part of. An interesting note that I haven’t seen mentioned much is the fact that one of Kaladin’s slave brands, Shash (means dangerous), is also the number that is meant to represent Shalash, the Herald of Beauty and patron to the Lightweavers. 2. pride and prejudice trope I call this the pride and prejudice trope because it is the best, longest lasting, and most well-known of the trope. Two people from different classes dislike each other and butt heads. It is also an opposites attract trope. There are so many examples of this between Kaladin and Shallan I doubt I will be able to remember them all. For starters, the passion that they seem to show in their squabbles are some of the best examples of the characters actually displaying outward extreme emotions other than in flashbacks, even if that emotion is hate. But it is a well-known trope in story-telling that the strong emotion of hate can easily transfer to the strong emotion of love. So really, the stronger the feeling the more likely it is to swing in the polar opposite direction. The class issue that is present and addressed in part 4 of WoR is also the premise of why Darcy and Elizabeth take a while to understand one another in the novel Pride and Prejudice. It is to be noted that this also seems to parallel Kaladin and Shallan as far as who seems to accept the attraction first. The person who is more open about the difference in their classes is also the one who is the first to admit to the attraction to the other person (Darcy and Kaladin). Elizabeth and Shallan both express less concern about class but are clearly very affected by it subconsciously. This trope also is a great example of respect for the other person based on empathy and mutual understanding as well as respect for the other person’s intellect. This is something that is clearly lacking in Shallan’s relationship with Adolin. A shared level of intellect is not absolutely necessary for a solid relationship in every case, but in my experience in real life as well as storytelling, two people in a relationship where a large difference in intellect occurs can be a problem. The opposites attract part is something that I have seen discussed before in depth. Some of the things that have been previously discussed are as follows: Kaladin is a morning person, Shallan is not. Shallan likes wine, Kaladin avoids alcohol. Their spren hate each other (the issue I see as being the most problematic, even more so than the engagement to Adolin). Shallan loves the weeping, Kaladin hates it (and we do know that Kaladin suffers from seasonal affective disorder). These are all little things mentioned throughout the books. 3. shared stories = bond The part of the story I found most interesting when it has come to our two main POV characters thus far is how and when they choose to talk to others about their past. Both are quite close-lipped on the subject, but occasionally let information out to others. Shallan tells Jasnah and Adolin a little bit (note that she opens up to Jasnah more than Adolin, although I see nothing strange in this. Its just an observation). And Kaladin talks to his fellow bridgemen about his past sometimes. But neither of them tells another soul anywhere near as much as they tell each other. Adolin has only seen once the implications of what Shallan has gone through once when she snapped at him for wanting to protect her (that scene was awesome by the way). The bond that is formed from sharing your deepest darkest secrets with another is usually a very intense one in fiction. That person usually goes on to be the other person’s greatest ally or their greatest foe. The intensity of their situation and the dramatic way of revealing their true selves to each other only ­adds to this. 4. same position = continued understanding of each other The story is being set up as two young attractive people who are attracted to each other being placed in similar situations where no one on Roshar except a very few can relate. And we are to expect nothing happens? The fact that they start off the next book apart has me curious when this is going to move forward, but move forward it will. As we are starting to see it, Kaladin and Shallan will not likely have any other KR’s that they feel like they can relate to any time soon. Renarin is a mess and Shallan thinks he is crazy. Not to mention he belongs to a notoriously secretive Order of the KR. Kaladin has his bridgemen and Adolin but none of them will fully understand. Shallan also has Adolin, but he is a mess and will not likely want to deal with Shallan’s issues with his own mess to take care of. That is if she confides in him at all. One would imagine she may have Jasnah in the near future but I believe Sanderson has said Jasnah is kind of off on her own for a while. Bonds form between people sharing high stress situations. Kaladin and Shallan have already done this and will likely be forced to do it again. Shallan ended WoR super pissed at Pattern and may want to get rid of him, but who has lost their spren before and may understand what the cost of this may be? And Kaladin is going to have a tough time coming to terms with his new station, but who has knocked him straight on that front a few times before? It may be nothing, but I noticed on the diagram of all the Orders, Windrunners and Lightweavers are placed a polar opposites sides of the chart (Windrunners upper left and Lightweavers lower right) with a direct line attaching the two. Is this a nod to their opposite personalities yet connected paths? 5. the adolin factor The way Adolin and Kaladin both treat Shallan is also very different. Adolin clearly respects Shallan as he has been brought up to respect women but feels the need to protect her. He doesn’t do this because he views her as his property or anything else like that. He does it because he is a good person who wants to help those in need, especially women. Kaladin mistrusts and does not respect her at first. She has to earn his trust and respect. And because of this he lets her be herself and more self-sufficient. She shows resentment of this behavior at first, being angry that he walks to fast and that he doesn’t immediately offer to carry her pack. But she must subconsciously appreciate it as she starts to actually care that he sees her in a negative light. He is some-what helpful to her in the chasms, but for the most part he expects her to keep up with him and pull her own weight in their travels. This in turn allows her to show more of herself to him as there isn’t a level of expectation of who she should be. Later she appears to go to great pains to prove to him she is not who he thinks she is. Shallan’s attraction to Adolin is significantly more physical than spiritual or intellectual. Most of the time when she is describing him positively its by his physical attributes. She acknowledges he is not intelligent and accepts this. The one time she does describe his deeper qualities such as his kindness and his loyalty she immediately proceeds to compare them to Kaladin. Her deepest description of Kaladin involves her saying he is brilliant, passionate, has smoldering resolve, and tempting arrogance. These words are meant to convey a much deeper feeling than kind, noble, and genuine that she uses to describe Adolin. We as readers are meant to see the large differences in the description of these two men. I love Adolin. He is a great character and is promising to be an even better one in the next book. I am the most excited to see where his story is going out of all of the characters. But the guy is not ready to settle down and be married. Even Navani points out in TWoK that Adolin should court various girls and gives him a “good for you.” He has enough interest to want to keep Shallan, but continues to look at other women. I am not saying this is a bad thing, but maybe just don’t do it in front of Shallan, dude. She sees it at the beginning, and that’s fair. They didn’t know each other and he didn’t realize at that point she was different. But then he keeps doing it! She is fully aware of this and lets it go. And honestly, if her feelings were completely invested she would have expressed more irritation to this at least in her own thoughts. I totally understand not acting on jealousy, but we get to hear her thoughts and she barely seems to care that he does it other than as a hurdle to get over to ensure the engagement goes through. And this brings me to my next point, Shallan herself is the biggest hurtle to this relationship in three ways. Don’t get me wrong, all of the things I am about to mention could be taken care of through story-telling. She could easily get over every one of these and make this relationship work. But where I see this going, her getting over the next three hurdles can only result in the engagement and potential marriage becoming null and void. 1. This whole basis of this relationship is that Shallan is using Adolin. She’s not using him for any selfish or diabolic reasons, and I can respect that. But the stakes are high for her, much higher than they are for him. She is desperate for it to work in order to save her family. Desperation makes us ignore many things that we would otherwise find important, like feelings of love and passion. 2. She is not herself with him, at least not completely. We see some awesome bits and pieces on how Shallan shows she is not like other girls, but much of it seems forced and its not complete. The scene about talking about BM’s while in shardplate is great to show this, but to me it just highlights how much she isn’t showing him of herself. She never shows him the extent of her drawing from memory abilities. He is not the first person she tells or shows her KR powers to-both Dalinar and Kaladin are aware of her abilities before he is as well as her artistic prowess. She blows up at him after leaving the chasms but fails to explain her actions as she should to make him better understand why she responded in that way. He knows nothing of her past experiences with her parents. This is huge and way more important than people seem to realize. Brushing aside the fact that she told Kaladin all about it first, I would imagine once she got it off her chest to someone (even in an intense and highly emotional situation), she would have felt more comfortable telling Adolin if it was that important for him to know and understand her. Especially as she was given a very good opportunity for this very early on after leaving the chasm. Which leads me to my next point that maybe Shallan doesn’t actually fully know her real self. 3. This is by far the most important-the lies. Mraize tells Shallan when he last confronts her that Veil is the real her and that the noble woman Shallan is her pretend self. This is important because the noble women is the only version of Shallan that Adolin sees. So in case the reader hasn’t picked up on it before this point, its spelled out for you that Shallan is never herself with Adolin. The fiery con-artist who calls it like it is, that’s the real Shallan. In reality she is more likely a mix of the two and could never truly live without the lies, at least not while she is a KR. Her lies are the whole point of her becoming a KR and what draws Pattern to her. But the point is made. 6. History repeats itself There are clear comparisons, especially as WoR goes on, of the Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin love triangle and the Dalinar/Navani/Gavilar love triangle. The one worth noting the most is that both Navani and Shallan admit to being afraid of the intensity that Dalinar and Kaladin display, respectively. In TWoK Navani says, “I chose him because you frightened me. That intensity of yours… it scared your brother too, you know.” The phrasing is ironically similar. In the chasms Shallan is looking at Kaladin, thinking “There was a sort of rugged handsomeness to the fellow. Like the beauty of a natural rock formation, as opposed to a fine sculpture like Adolin. But Kaladin’s intensity, that frightened her.” When Shallan mentions it in WoR you are meant as a reader to recall what Navani had said about Dalinar in TWoK. The wording is almost exactly the same. Similar lines (and scenes) are thrown into books, movies, tv to draw comparisons. I would also like to point out that Shallan considers herself a naturalist, wanting to focus her scholarship on documenting flora and fauna. She compares Kaladin to something she is passionate about and Adolin to something that is secondary to her in art. 7. The complications The way I see it, there are only two major hurtles to this potentially romantic relationship. That is if you discount the imminent end of the world they appear to be going through and their “spren conflict.” The first hurtle is obviously Adolin. If history does truly repeat itself then Shallan will choose Adolin and that will be that. However, we are left at the end WoR with the question of where Adolin is headed in the story. He is surrounded by Knights Radiant but is not one himself. He just killed a man in cold blood and will likely have some serious guilt over that. We are left with Adolin at a fork in the road, unclear which path he will take. The second hurdle is the huge issue that Kaladin knows he is the one to kill Shallan’s brother. Based on her response to Amaram we know she is going to be devastated by the news that Kaladin is the one who actually killed Heleran. He will tell her eventually because he is honorable and could never live with himself without telling her the truth. This is an excellent plot device for them and the biggest hindrance to a potential relationship for them. I do not see it as being a long lasting issue. Shallan wound eventually have to acknowledge that people do terrible things sometimes, no one more than herself. She cannot fault Kaladin for killing her brother when her brother killed all his men. Also, there is a lot of foreshadowing in WoR that Heleran was up to a lot of stuff including potential involvement in the ghostbloods. So Shallan may not be in a place to be missing her brother overly much when she does find out about his death. One last thought on this, I had previously mentioned that the fact that Kaladin and Shallan’s spren hate each other would be a potential issue for a relationship. However, Syl doesn't seem to mind the idea based on the sample chapters, so i doubt Pattern would either.
  17. Intro A new WoB was just recenly posted on the forums and I wanted to write up my thoughts on it, including a theory that has been in my head for a while. Let me know what you guys think! New WoB A sharder ( @Bugsy6912) recently posted on the 17th Shard Discord a WoB that he had gotten. Read it below: Analysis+Theory This is a super interesting Realmatics question. We dont really have much information on how time works in the Spiritual Realm or the Cognitive realm, so this answer was unexpected. One magic system that I believe does touch on how time works in other Realms is Allomancy. Obviously metals like Electrum and Atium interact with time on different realms, but so does Gold and Malatium. The passages we've seen with allomancers burning gold have been very interesting. I've started seeing interesting patterns between these scenes with some characters in Stormlight. Read the below Miles quote: Now compare that to the below Shallan and Kaladin passages: In the first two you can notice a distinct similarity in the prose and syntax used in both quotes. There is a kind of "self labeling" going on between both people, but one is burning gold and the other isnt. I think that this is because the fundamentals of gold may function based on the fundamentals that the above WoB hints at, time interacting with investiture, and that this is why we see Kaladin, an invested being, having his Cognitive filter possibly being distorted by investiture. Gold also definitely seems to work this way. My theoy is that the Connections that are snapped into one's Spiritual aspect allow for a kind of meshing, caused by the extra investiture, between one's Spiritual aspect, Cogntive aspect, and how the two are affected by this dilation from the investiture. End This is super heavy crackpot, and not very edited as this WoB was posted just ealier today, but I think it Connects some of my ideas on how the Cosmere works. Let me know what holes you guy see in it and what your opinions are!
  18. Give me a moment to put on my shardplate. Now before you Shaolin shippers light your torches and raise your pitchforks, I am one of you. I want Shallan to end up with Adolin in the end. But what about my title.? Well, I think the idea of a Kaladin and Shallan pairing is getting an unnatural amount of hate. In fact, if there are any Shalladin fans out there, I am sorry your ship is being so thoroughly wrecked by this odium toward this pairing. (Sorry I had to.) Kaladin and Shallan will not work in the end. Besides the issues that they have little in common, don't speak the same social language at times, and have spren who are as diametrical as two spren can be, Kaladin killed her brother. Even if Shallan understands and forgives, I don't think she could be in an intimate relationship with someone who killed Heleran. So if the two begin dating their relationship is doomed. However, I don't hear this as the reason people are complaining about the pairing. "NO LOVE TRIANGLES!" is the cry. Why? Because it is a tired trope, you say. I don't think that is your problem. What if the triangle was between Adolin, Shallan, and Mraize? Some might still cry no love triangles, but I don't think the call would be as loud. I think the problem isn't the dreaded "love triangle" as much as it is we are all avid readers and are tired of seeing the main hero end up with the main heroine. It would be refreshing to see a man and woman who were central characters just remain friends. I get this desire. I am writing a whole series with the goal of having the main hero and heroine only be friends. Still, this is an expectation less avid readers do often have for heroes and heroines. Consider all the fans who were disappointed Harry Potter did not end up with Hermione Granger. I was happy to see Ron ended up with Hermione (Ron from the books at least) and would have hated to see her end up with Harry. But for many, the Harry Potter series was their first obsession, so naturally, they imagined the great love story of Harry and Hermione. I doubt SA can be a gateway series for many because of the learning curve that is WoK. Therefore a majority of SA fans have seen the hero and heroine end up together in a plethora of stories, and we are tired of the trope as much as love triangles. You might be tired of it, but that does not make it a bad thing Brandon should not do. Shalladin would help Shaolin become a lasting relationship. That might sound like an odd statement, but it is true. I think we worry about Shalladin because Kal is a great guy and why would Shallan leave him once they were together. Further, it would destroy the budding bromance between Kaladin and Adolin. However, I don't think either of these fears would come to pass if Shallan and Kaladin flirted for a few chapters to half a book and it would bring great conflict, but not be a true love triangle, at least not in the classic sense. I have already established why Kaladin and Shallan are doomed as a couple, so I am not going to go over that again. However, I don't think Kaladin and Shallan flirting will harm his friendship with Adolin at all. I don't think Kal would pursue a relationship with Shallan until Adolin is out of the picture because of the friendship (and she's lighteyed, or that is what Kaladin will tell himself until Adolin is exiled). Right now Shaolin is also a doomed relationship but not forever. Both Adolin and Shallan are really messed up people. I don't think either could have a healthy relationship right now until they address their issues. And the issue that will temporarily break them up is Adolin killing Sadeas. Brandon has hinted as much in chapter 13 of Oathbringer. Besides the fact that Shallan saying neither of them will mess this up sounds like famous last words, the last topic of the chapter is Adolin's hidden crime. Putting the ideas of them breaking up and the killing of Sadeas together suggests this is how their relationship will end, but not forever. Now I don't think Shallan is going to break up with Adolin when she finds out what he did. In a twisted way that might even bring them closer to together. No, I think this will break them up because Adolin is going to be exiled from Urithru and likely Alethkar as well and that will be the end of the engagement. Some would argue Adolin will get away with it, but the way the story is structured and the hints Brandon is dropping point to Adolin needing to face some consequences for his actions. Still, that is a debate for another thread. Just go with me on the fact murder of Sadeas will push Adolin away from Shallan for a time. After that happens Kaladin and Shallan may consider a relationship with each other. They might look past their different backgrounds and go for it because they are both KR so why not give it a try. At that point, it will not be a true love triangle. Adolin and Shallan will be over with, and Adolin will be somewhere out in Roshar reviving his blade or something. Still, Shallan is such a metal mess that her time with Kaladin will not go well even before she learns he killed Heleran. She is going to need to face her issues, and this will damage the relationship she is in no matter whom she is with at the time. I'd much rather have her self-discovery ruin Shalladin than Shaodin. Let her go through this learning period with Kaladin, have them both part as better people, and hopefully still friends even after she learns the truth. Then Shallan will hopefully be ready for a stable relationship. After this happens, I hope Adolin will return to Urithru as an Edgedancer with his a restored blade (yes he would make a great Edgedancer, shut up) and he will reestablish his relationship with Shallan. Then they would be on equal footing as KR and more mature people. Thus, the relationship will last the rest of their lives. As for Kal, he will be happy for them because he knows "they fit" and he will have moved on, but hopefully remain their friend. I'm likely wrong about all of this, but it could work. So please don't demand "no Shalladin." It might be an interesting source of conflict, and I trust Brandon to show it to us in an engaging way.
  19. From the album In this house we respect Dalinar Kholin

    “What is a man’s life worth?” Dalinar asked softly.“The slavemasters say one is worth about two emerald broams,” Kaladin said, frowning.“And what do you say?”“A life is priceless,” he said immediately, quoting his father.Dalinar smiled, wrinkle lines extending from the corners of his eyes.“Coincidentally, that is the exact value of a Shardblade. So today, you and your men sacrificed to buy me twenty-six hundred priceless lives. And all I had to repay you with was a single priceless sword. I call that a bargain.”“You really think it was a good trade, don’t you?” Kaladin said, amazed.Dalinar smiled in a way that seemed strikingly paternal. I got emotions and nowhere to put um
  20. Ok i posted a the outline of this to the stormlight discord server but i thought it would be a good idea to reach more sharders , but before that and before i gather more down voting arrows than Kaladin's shield during the tower approach, let me make it clear that this is a joke now that this is settled , lets dive in our protagonist is a brown skinned lower class citizent , acompanied by a snarky and fabulous blue translucent spirit thingy with mystical powers , and a way for nonconventional flight . and dont get me started on the name , it is like Sanderson didnt even try , Kaladin? come on! that is only one letter off for those of you who havent caught on already i am talking about Aladin , yes disney's Aladin , he has the genie and a flying carpet , i am not going to even mention that he crushes on a high born woman. but i guess that kaladin has nipples so atleast that is different , and an important change of his character .... actualy do we know for sure if kaladin has nipples ? can we get a WoB on that please ?
  21. This is a song focusing on Kaladin and such. (Called Sound of Honor) Hello, Tien, my old friend I’ve come to talk to you again Because the Stormlight softly creeping Left its seeds while I was hanging And the vision that was planted in my brain Still remains Within the sound of honor In restless dreams I walked alone Narrow streets of Hearthstone ‘Neath the halo of a sphere lamp I turned my collar to the cold and damp When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a bright light That split the night And touched the sound of honor And in the naked light, I saw Ten thousand parshmen, maybe more They were talking without speaking They were hearing without listening They were singing songs that voices never share And no one dared Disturb the sound of honor Son of honor, you do not know Odium like a cancer grows Hear my words that I might teach you Take my blade that I might fight for you But my words, like silent raindrops fell And echoed in the wells of honor And the Parshendi bowed and prayed To the Voidbringer they made And the storm flashed out its warning In the dreams that it was forming And the dream said, the ways of kings are written on Urithiru’s walls And sacred halls And whispered in the sound of honor
  22. Okay, as I have said on previous posts, I am new to this series and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has expressed some of these ideas. That being said, I am 100% behind the love triangle between Kaladin, Shallan, and Adolin. I love the teasing that Brandon does for it especially with Kaladin starting to get weak at the knees around her after their stint in the chasms. I just kind of wanted to pick some brains on the subject. Sorry Adolin, but I'm on the side of Kaladin with this one. Let me know what you guys think. But I definitely think that this love triangle will have some more time in the sun especially with the slight hints that Brandon gave to them from both Kaladin's and Shallan's point of view.
  23. Hello, I'm a recent addition to this cosmere. I've been listening to Brandon Sanderson's books since I left America in March for my Deployment to Iraq. I've made it through 5 books, and I am excited about the 3rd mistborn book I will read this month, and the third Stormlight Archives book I will read in November when it is released. I have also listened to Warbreaker. However, I want the entire Cosmere in my library, Can someone list ALL of the books from Sanderson's collection in the Cosmere? Also, should I read the short novella Edgedancer before reading the Oathbringer? I have not had an opportunity to get any of the short stories. Also, it seems that Mr. Sanderson is quite involved in his community, where is the best place to keep my finger to feel for his pulse In this community barring social media?
  24. Original character designs I've been developing -- Jasnah is in the works. I would love to hear any critiques/tips you all may have! https://www.behance.net/gallery/WoK-Character-Concepts/15065047

    © Elizabeth Kunkle 2014