Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'dominion'.



More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


Categories

  • Brandon and Book News
  • Events, Signings, & Giveaways
  • Columns and Features
  • Site News
  • Shardcast

Forums

  • 17th Shard
    • Introduce Yourself!
    • 17th Shard Discussion
    • The Coppermind Wiki
    • Arcanum Discussion
  • Brandon Sanderson
    • General Brandon Discussion
    • Events and Signings
    • Sanderson Fan Works
    • Arcanum, the Brandon Sanderson Archive
  • The Cosmere
    • Cosmere Q&A
    • Cosmere Discussion
    • Stormlight Archive
    • Mistborn
    • Elantris and Emperor's Soul
    • Warbreaker
    • White Sand
    • Cosmere Short Stories
    • Unpublished Works
  • Non-cosmere Works
    • The Reckoners
    • The Rithmatist
    • Skyward Spoiler Board
    • Alcatraz
    • Other Stories
    • The Wheel of Time
  • Related Works
    • Writing Excuses
    • Reading Excuses
    • TWG Archive
  • Community
    • General Discussion
    • Entertainment Discussion
    • Science, Tech, and Math Discussion
    • Creator's Corner
    • Role-Playing
    • Social Groups, Clans, and Guilds

Blogs

  • Chaos' Blog
  • Leinton's Blog
  • 17th Shard Blog
  • KChan's Blog
  • Puck's Blag
  • Brandon's Blog
  • The Name of your Blog
  • Darth Squirrely's Blog
  • Tales of a Firebug
  • borborygmus' Blog
  • Zeadman's Blog
  • zas678's Blog
  • The Basement
  • Addy's Avocations
  • Zarepath's Blog
  • First time reading The Well Of Ascension
  • Seshperankh's Blog
  • "I Have Opinions About Books"
  • Test
  • Which actors would you like to see playing the characters of Mistborn?
  • Drifted Mists
  • Jaron's Realm
  • Roshar Speculative Theories
  • ChrisHamatake's Blog
  • Paradox Flint's Blog
  • Elder Stay's Blog
  • Deoradhan's Blog
  • Storm Blessed's Blog
  • Elwynn's Blog
  • firstRainbowRose's Blog
  • Rotabush ShardBlog
  • Hoid's Compendium
  • InterContinental Adventures
  • Claincy Creates
  • WoR Thoughts and Questions
  • Blogfalcon
  • What If I Told You
  • What Happened in Oregon
  • David Coppercloud's Blog
  • yurisses' notes and theories
  • Lark Adventures
  • LeftInch's Blog
  • patriciamcclellan841's Blog
  • Something about everything (and a bit on the side)
  • Theorytime Monthly
  • LUNA's Poetry
  • Inspiration Board
  • Trying to be Useful for a Change
  • Driving Simulator|Purchase Driving Simulator Online
  • Rocket League Boosting Service -RL Rank Boosting - ProBoosting.net
  • Buy Vine Followers - Real Fast and Guaranteed - SocialFollowers.net
  • Rocket League Items Trading - Buy or Sell RL Items
  • The Way of Toasters
  • Scandinavian Furniture | Buy Scandinavian Furniture online
  • Manufacturer of Magnesium Chloride and Sodium Metabisulfite in China
  • Manufacturer of Magnesium Chloride and Sodium Metabisulfite in China
  • Praltrix
  • Cosmere Nerd Things
  • Manufacturer of Magnesium Chloride and Sodium Metabisulfite in China
  • Vascular X
  • http://www.supplementssouthafrica.co.za/testo-ultra-south-africa/
  • Gleam And Glow Cream Review
  • g10 force
  • Shop best Tennis Ball Machines online – Top Seed Sports
  • HCPE Resin Producer|High Chlorinated Polyethylenel Chloride
  • Following Level Competing GTUltimate V2 Racing Simulator Cabin
  • Custom Quality Services Offered By Painting Contractors Spring Valley
  • Shop simulator racing cockpit online at best price
  • How AR will impact the market in Current time | Brossard Design
  • A few things that weigh less and will make your Camino more comfortable
  • Affordable Walls & Ceilings
  • Shaun Bagwell Masonry
  • How to Expand Your Business Internationally
  • EAC Poway
  • Nava Landscapes
  • Track Advanced - Racing, Flight and Game Simulators by Next Level Racing
  • How to Find the Right Display Boards for the Right Application
  • vpnpanelforsale.xyz
  • I HATE SPIDER VEINS
  • Psychics Love

Calendars

  • Community Calendar

Found 29 results

  1. Ok, this theory might seem a little crazy, but if it turns out to actually be true, it would have a huge impact on the Cosmere! so, starting off: Devotion and Dominion were splintered, and their power was moved into the Cognitive Realm. in the Arcanim Unbounded essay about Sel, it says: Now, we have seen evidence that a self-aware Splinter could pick up a Shard, like [SH spoilers] Since Dominion and Devotion are already somewhat Reunited, they could potentially be picked up by a person, or a Seon, or a Skaze, or whatever. EXCEPT! this United Shard could already have been picked up, by the PLANET ITSELF(!), because it has ties to all three realms, enabling it to use the full power of the Shard, Connection to both of the shards, enabling it to pick it up easily, and a self-awareness, which could allow the Planet of Sel to choose for itself. This could be that something that might be happening on Sel that Khriss speculates about. What do you guys think? Could it be true, or has the taint on Saidin affected me more than I think?
  2. So Ruin&Preservation was just some weird opposites attract thing where one can't just be alone without the other interfering so that makes sense. Honor&Cultivation settled together because they're romantically involved so that one is quite obvious. However how did Aona and Skai end up together settling on the same planet when the shards they held don't seem to gel well by concept ? Do you guys think it is personal like they personally know each other enough that they trust each other to settle together ? Are they previously romantically involved as well ( tho Sanderson did say they were just business partners of sort but I think I read some wob there was something more) ? Or after picking up the shards did with their warped personality both made a conscious agreed decision together as they foresaw they would work out well for their personal shard intents ? It feels like their settling on the same planet together like how two friends/strangers who have different personalities just decide to become roommates or something. Their case is a curious as if I think about it Dominion and Devotion sounds almost as disastrous as R&P. Any relevant wobs ? Speculations ? Thoughts
  3. I'm going to just say right off the bat that I am by no means convinced that this is even likely to be true much less that it actually is, and it only just finished coming together in my head a few minutes ago in another one of my posts in which Autonomy was brought up. So for all I know, this is demonstrably false, but I thought I'd just put it out there. So for a while now, I've been trying (and failing) to wrap my brain around just what the heck is going on with Autonomy and why she seems to be acting so contrary to at least reasonable conceptions of what her intent would seem to indicate. What we seem to know about her is that 1) she's 'spreading' from planet to planet and installing avatars of her Investiture on them, whatever exactly that means, 2) she tends to discourage if not outright forbid in the case of Taldain any access to or from the planets under her dominion (pun definitely intended), and 3) that she tends to inspire or deliberately set herself or her avatars up as objects of worship among those on her planets. This has always struck me as extremely bizarre behaviour for the Shard of Autonomy, for which really only (2) could be argued as unsurprising. But then I remembered that there was a WOB in which someone had asked Brandon whether Autonomy was involved in the splintering of Devotion and Dominion, and Brandon answered in the affirmative, albeit only after they rephrased the question to be extremely broad to prevent him from RAFOing it on the spot ("was Autonomy involved in any way), which is so vague as to be compatible with practically anything, but oh well, just consider that one of the unproven assumptions of this theory. What occurred to me is that it almost seems like Autonomy is displaying behaviour consistent with and expected by Dominion and Devotion (albeit interpreted in the sense of 'subservience' and 'sycophantism' rather than 'love and compassion' as Aona seems to). That is to say, I don't think any of us would have been at all surprised to have learned that Dominion liked to spread from planet to planet and claim them for itself, or that a less benevolently-interpreted Devotion would like to set themself up as an object of worship and reverence, but that Autonomy would do those things is, at the very least, somewhat more surprising simply by virtue of it not being as expected given that Shardic intent. So my question is this: IF we assume for the sake of argument that Autonomy was in some way involved with the deaths of Devotion and Dominion, or of disposing of their 'remains' afterward so to speak, is there any chance that the uncontained Investiture of Dominion and Devotion could have in some sense 'contaminated' Autonomy's own Investiture (and maybe even Odium too for all we know, since he's really no different, just even worse) to some extent and instilled into her these tendencies that would be more expected for those two Shards? I mean she clearly doesn't hold their full Shards, that's not what I'm suggesting, but it doesn't seem entirely outside the realm of possibility that when the Investiture of two Shards comes into contact, for lack of a better term, some limited degree of melding occurs (it certainly did in Harmony's case, admittedly through completely different means). Looked at in this way, Autonomy's behaviour would no longer seem quite so counter-intuitive. She'd effectively be a single Shard in terms of power, but possess in addition to her primary attribute, a limited extent of two other Shards as well. Though admittedly, an obvious inconsistency with this theory is that Ruin and Preservation's Investiture had clearly been 'in contact' before and yet neither of them displayed any sort of 'intent blending', so clearly if this has any merit at all it would require the additional assumption that something different and possibly unique occurred on Sel that simply hasn't occurred since. Exactly what this is, I don't know. Does anyone have any thoughts?
  4. After the shattering, Odium splintered and killed the holders of (at least) three shards before arriving on Roshar. In the various timelines for the Cosmere I have seen constructed, Odium is always said to have splintered Devotion and Dominion on Sel first, and then mortally wounded Ambition in the Threnodite system before Ambition was fully splintered, almost certainly by Odium, elsewhere (see, e.g. here, for example). Is there any WOB or anything that substantiates this order, because, based on the system overviews in AU, I presumed Odium went after and splintered Ambition before he went to Sel. Concerning Ambition, the Thredodite System overview says: Concerning Devotion and Dominion, the Selish System overview says: The Selish System article, also suggests that there was a fairly substantial period of time that Devotion and Dominion were on Sel before being destroyed, at least in human terms. There is no such suggestion in in the Threnodite Sytem article, though the coppermind article on Ambition makes it sound as though this was the case, or at least that there had been significant enough investiture once on Threnody to suggest it, all albeit without citations backing it up. It sounds to me, all told, that Odium went after Ambition first, soon after the shattering, and then went to Sel after Devotion and Dominion had been there for a fairly significant amount of time, at least from a human perspective. I think this is reinforced by the fact that Odium didn't defeat and Splinter Ambition outright, and that she was able to run away first after being mortally wounded. This suggests to me that Odium was still just figuring out how to splinter and not just kill the holders of other shards. I think Mistborn Secret history also suggested that splintering other shards was something shards had to learn, and that Ruin hadn't learned it, which was what allowed Kelsier, then Vin, then Sazed to take up preservation. Is there a reason to believe Odium went to Sel before going after Ambition, rather than after? If so, can you please share it? Thanks
  5. I posted this on General Brandon discussion, but then I realized it probably belongs here. So I recently restarted Elantris, and-I'm sure I'm not the first to see this- I noticed that "Domi" (as in merciful domi) sounded an awful lot like Dominion (DOMInion). I also noticed Hrathen say something along the lines of "ambition is one of the only emotions Jaddeth encourages, besides devotion. I think it may be possible that Shu-Dereth and Shu-Korath are worshiping devotion and dominion, respectively? It does say in the coppermind that Domi comes from Aon Omi, meaning love, but I thought the coincidence was a little too strong. Also, the Derethi beliefs that Jaddeth lives in the ground hits a little too close to home for it to not be one of the shards. What do you guys think?
  6. One thing I'm curious about (and unsure where else to wonder about it) is what made Dominion and Devotion settle on Sel together in the first place? We know now that there was a kind of pact or agreement that Shards would stay away from each other, thanks to the Part 2 Epigraphs, and we know Ruin and Preservation paired off in part because they thought they could counterbalance each other and mitigate Ati's eventual corruption by his Intent, while Honor and Cultivation's vessels had a romantic connection. Autonomy seems to just like to meddle, and Odium seeks out other Shards to kill them. But why did Aona and Skai break the pact? Dominion and Devotion in some ways oppose each other but in other ways almost complement each other (ie the sense of nationalistic identity that fuels many of the magics on Sel can be seen as Devotion to one's Dominion or empire). So they're not an obvious counter to each other in such a way that they could balance or cancel each other out the way that Ruin and Preservation sought to, but neither are they an easy or obvious complement of Intents. Additionally, we have inklings that Skai was not such a great guy, so it would seem unlikely that he and Aona had anything like Honor and Cultivation's personal connection....unless Skai was corrupted by his Intent of Dominion similar to Ati's devolution into Ruin. So honestly, I'm at a loss as to what drew them together if its being near each other and violating this pact that put them on Odium's hit list in the first place. It's likely we simply just don't have enough information yet to draw any kind of actual conclusions, but Sel and its history and its Shards remains one of the most mysterious aspects of the cosmere to me, so this pact (albeit one that seems rather informal and more of 'guidelines' for Shards to follow rather than a hard and fast rule) and the fact that they broke it feels significant to me. Anyone else have any theories why?
  7. Devotion and Dominion are actually a "Spintered Shard" This post is a theory about the current situation of the Sel’s Shards. Maybe the title is a bit confusing but follow my thoughs. Let’s begin to some Cosmere’s “facts” wide accepted by everyone: Sel had two Shards: Devotion held by Aona and Dominion held by Skai Odium came to Sel, killed the Holders and Splintered the Shards. A little part of the Spinters gained sentience and became Seon and Skaze. The remain (massive) splinters of the two Shards merged together and became the Dor. The Dor is the core part of the Jesker religion, who see the Dor like an “overspirit” Another religion Shu-keseg workship the “unity of mind” From Shu-keseg came two branches: Shu-Dereth and Shu-Korath Shu-Dereth involves about “unity through control” Shu-Korag involves about “unity through love” the religion derivated from Shu-keseg have as mantra quite the intent of the two Sel’s shards. Now after this (maybe too long) introduction, I will explain my theory: Now on Sel there aren't two different shards but only one. Devotion or Dominiom are gone, now we have only a new Shard, I like to call it “Unity” but we could call with the neutral name of DorShard. The problem is that DorShard is actually Splintered. This is my explanation: When Odium came to Sel, he killed both of Shardholders and then spintered twe two Shards. A little of the Shards’s Splinters gained sentience and now they are know as Seon and Skaze. The unsentient part of the Spinters from both Shards then began to merge together. Why Did they merge ? Becouse the Devotion and Dominion's intents (or mandates if you prefer) are quite similar, they both were focused about bring Unity but using different methods. If you find this interpretation already heard, it is because it’s quite the same story of Shu-Keseg (but from the ending to the beginning) and I think that Keshu was inspired by this truth and his disciples’s shism was about the previous Shards’ situation. Now the DorShard is actually an unique Shard (like Harmony) but without host and probably Splintered (if the merging doesn’t put the Shard together). If now somebody “pick up the Dor” (and I don't know how it could be made), he will ascend to became a “Double Class” Shard like Harmony. EDIT: For the lazy sharder the main point in few words is: The Dor is a corpse of a new shard, not the patchwork of two corpse of shards
  8. When Raoden falls into the pool in elantris he hears a voice. If the two shards on Sel are shattered than who is the voice he's hearing?
  9. Really wacky theory, and probably wrong, but hear me out. First off, "Benevolence" is the name I am giving to the Shard that would come of a combination of Dominion and Devotion. Came up with the name when hearing Raoden describe himself as a dictator. He is a dictator and a tyrant, embodying Dominion in his control of New Elantris, at the same time, his people love him, and not only does he devote himself to them, he teaches them to devote themselves to their work to escape the pain, thus also embodying Devotion. Best way to describe this to me would be a Benevolent Dictator. Let me know if you have a better name for a combination of Dominion and Devotion (Kinda like how Harmony is the name of Ruin+Preservation). Part two of the theory. Haven't looked this up too much, so it might already be accepted knowledge, but here you go. Odium shattered both Dominion and Devotion. This destroyed their consciousnesses, as well as locking their power in the cognitive realm, in a shattered form. I am assuming that this is what is making travel in Sel's area of Shadesmar dangerous; the shattered power of a shard is searching for purpose and is quite volatile. The Dor is in fact the collection of Devotion and Dominion's power, stuck in the cognitive realm and trying to escape. Something in the shattering also stops it from reforming a consciousness, though I'm not sure if that is by keeping it apart (shattered) or it is through some other means. However, I think it is safe to assume that Dominion and Devotion are united as a single power now, almost like a shattered Harmony might be. Part three has to do with Raoden's Dor attacks. For reference, he is the relevant part of Chapter 37: Here, he feels the Dor, as this vast power, making worlds seem insignificant. However, there are a couple lines I'd like to call attention to. First "without crack". To me this seems to say that the shattered pieces aren't separated physically. No, to me it seems to say that something is keeping the sentience of the shards shattered and unformed (thus the "It was not evil, or even sentient." line), while the power is somewhat whole and unite in the Cognitive realm, even if it is volatile and dangerous. A shard's power tends to try and find a host, preferably one that can actually hold the shard (ie has a similar character to it's ideal). To me it seems like Raoden is the first person who is both an Elantrian (read, connection to the Dor) and the odd mix of both Devotion and Dominion's intents. This annotation from Elantris' 31st chapter would seem to confirm this: With a bit of twisting, those two traits could be seen as Dominion and Devotion. Seems suspicious that Brandon would use the term "two defining traits" if intent plays such a big part in Shard lore and mechanics. So, what I think is happening is that the Dor is trying to find a host, but something that Odium did when shattering it is stopping it. And any attempt to absorb the shard is extremely painful to the host, due to a lingering shattering effect from Odium to stop a new host or due to the volatility of the current state of the Dor. Also, for some reason, being a fallen elantrian allows the Dor to try and take you as a host, assuming you have the connection required. If there ever was another Elantrian who, like Raoden, had the character to hold the Dor, then they have perished and been forgotten by the time Raoden becomes an elantrian. All that to say, I think that Raoden, after becoming settled as an Elantrian wouldn't have given up his passion with understanding the Dor. And that it would keep trying to take him. Maybe as a full elantrian, the effects would be different than pain, but I don't know. Regardless, Raoden would figure it out, and would eventually take on the power of both Dominion and Devotion, becoming the shard Benevolence. Other points: Somehow the Cognitive realm becomes safe enough for travel some time after Elantris, as Galladon finds his way to Roshar. It would make sense if someone has taken in all of that volatile power. The Dor attacks was one of the unresolved mysteries of Elantris. Why was it important to the plot? Just so there was urgency to Raoden after the bands joined? (as per the annotations.) I don't think so. The Dor attacks seem too well thought out. To me it smells like a strand of a Cosmere level plot. Something to lead into a sequel. The "glowing" during the Dor attacks would seem similar to the description of Vin right before her body melted away. In fact, here is another passage from Elantris which almost says this. It's when Raoden gets attacked by the Dor during a conversation with Sarene: So, there you go. My theory is that some time after Elantris (maybe in a sequel) Raoden takes up the mantle of the shattered power of both Dominion and Devotion, becoming a shard who's intent is very similar to that of a benevolent dictator. Thus the name Benevolence. Edit: Thanks to @The One Who Connects for catching that I wrote Domination instead of Dominion a couple times.
  10. So, about a week ago, I posted a theory about Raoden holding the Dual-Shard of Devotion and Dominion, which I'm fairly sure has been shut down, though I think it could possibly still happen. Here I want to discuss the process of rebuilding a splintered shard. It includes a minor theory as to how the splintering of those two shards happened. As a side note, up till now I've been referring to a Dominion/Devotion blend as Benevolence. I'm not longer sure. Maybe Mastery? I'd chosen Benevolence, because that was the Devotion/Dominion blend I saw in AonDor and Raoden, but after looking at all of the Selish magic systems, I think Mastery applies more. Devotion to developing the system so as to get greater Dominion. At the same time, it might depend on how this shard was created. Ruin and Preservation became Harmony under Sazed, but could have become something else under different circumstances. At least, I think I remember a WoB saying that Ruin+Preservation could have become Contention, or some other equivalent. To begin, here is what I believe to Dominion and Devotion (I think it is mostly head-cannon, though there is some WoB support): Odium killed the two vessels, separated the investiture from the shards and shoved it into the CR (forming the Dor, then splintered what was left of the shard into as many pieces as he could, which were then scattered. These pieces slowly gained consciousness, and became the Seons and Skaze that we see on Sel. This is based on a couple WoBs. One that says that shards without vessels will try to get a vessel, or will slowly reform a consciousness. And another one confirming that the Seons/Skaze are splinters of Devotion/Dominion respectively. So, I see a few processes that would work to recombine these shards. 1. Compressing Seons and Skaze to kill them and picking up the remaining power. If pressing Preservation and Ruin up against each other kills the two different vessels (see Vin and Ati's deaths) because they are opposite, then I think that compressing a Seon and a Skaze together would kill them both, leaving behind the shard pieces from each. Left alone, they would reform into a Seon and a Skaze. However, someone who was attuned to both Dominion and Devotion (like how Sazed was attuned to both Preservation and Ruin) was nerby, that person might be able to draw in the splinters. Do this enough times and you'd ascend. There would still be splinters, but once you ascended, it would be easier to regain the other pieces. Once you have the Shards reunited, but with the Investiture still in the CR, then I think the new dual-shard (Mastery/Benevolence) would be able to go to the CR and scoop it back up. It hasn't happened because since the Dor was made, there hasn't ever been enough shard splinters together with a consciousness for it to do so. 2. Merging Seons and Skaze pair by pair, then merging the different pairs into one. However, if compressing a Seon and a Skaze doesn't kill them, but instead merges them, then you could create a ton of splinters of Mastery/Benevolence, in the which each splinter has equal parts Dominion and Devotion. Once most of the splinters have been turned from Seons/Skaze into the new dual-splinter, then you could take the new splinters and merge them together, thus forming a Shard. Unlike the last one, it doesn't involve a human becoming a vessel, but instead relies on the consciousness that a shard makes if left alone. However, the process of reclaiming the Dor would be very similar to that of step 1. 3. Merging each shard individually. However, if you can't merge Seons and Skaze at all, then you might need to use a more roundabout method. I'd attempt to find a way to combine two Seons into one, and two Skaze into one. Over time, you'd end up with the two shard back, without the portion of their investiture that is locked in the Dor. Here it is more complex. The investiture in the Dor is equal parts Dominion and Devotion. However, that power is merged. I suspect that you'd need a temporary alliance between Devotion and Dominion where they work together to separate the Dor into their respective pieces. Then, if you wanted to merge them, you'd have the Vin suicide assault and a new vessel taking both (HoA plot all over again). Or if you want things simpler, use the suicide assault first, then reclaim the Dor as a single piece. Mastery or Benevolence. If you use method 1, then which one came out would depend on who the new vessel was. Take someone like Raoden, and I think you'd get Benevolence. Take someone like Wan ShaiLu, and you'd get something closer to Mastery. Method 2 would probably yield Mastery. And Method 3 Would yeild the seperate shards, which if killed and merged a la Sazed, would have the same result as method 1.
  11. This WoB suggests Rayse had multiple motives for killing Shards. (Source.) Argent: So, did Rayse choose those Shards [to splinter] because - Brandon Sanderson: He went after Ambition first, but didn’t find Ambition until after going after Devotion and Dominion. But Ambition was number one on his hit list. Argent: Was it because of the Shard or because of the Vessel, or the person? Brandon Sanderson: In this case it was the Shard primarily. He was afraid that this was a Shard that would rival him. But he then got trapped in the Rosharan system. “In this case”? Did Odium have other motives than Shard “rivalry” in other cases? I speculate that Rayse detoured from Ambition to kill his parents Aona and Skai. I characterize Devotion and Dominion’s Mandates (Intents) as “Love” and “Control.” That strikes me as a typical “parenting” combo – one parent keeps the kids under control while the other nurtures and loves them unconditionally. I believe Brandon intended this parenting combination. Devotion and Dominion had a pre-Shattering relationship and came to Sel together. Devotion’s love wanted to grant mortals the gift of magic. Dominion agreed, but only under tight controls. Hence, Sel’s “programmatic” form-based magic. It’s understandable why Odium sought Ambition first. It’s understandable why he later sought Honor, his magical antithesis. (Honor binds; Odium severs.) But why Devotion? Dominion maybe, but both of them? And so early in his killing spree? What kind of threat could they pose to chase them down first? Compared to his other killings, Odium murdered Skai and Aona in a particularly vicious way. It was personal. Odium wasn’t content to just kill them. He stomped on their souls and stuffed them into the Cognitive Realm. It’s the Shardic equivalent of cutting up your victim and hiding the pieces in the basement. Hoid in the First Letter describes Rayse as “among the most loathsome, crafty and dangerous individuals I had ever met.” That makes you wonder what the criteria were for participating in the Shattering.
  12. Do other types of investiture suffer/benefit (depending on how you want to view it) from overuse of their powers similar to misting savants?
  13. In The Emperor's Soul, Shai mentions that any material can be used to make a soulstamp, but crystal is the best material for making stamps that take. However, few people use it because it is difficult to carve, and Soulstone is almost as good, as well as easy to carve. In Khriss's essay about Sel in Arcanum Unbounded, she says that So my theory is: THINGS THAT ARE PHYSICALLY ORDERLY ARE THE MOST SELF AWARE. Crystals are orderly. That is the definition of a crystal. Shai mentions wood as something that is very difficult to carve. That makes sense, as wood is not orderly. Soulstone is different because it is a part of Devotion and Dominion. It came from those rocks that fell from the sky that the MaiPon used to worship. So the only advantage that crystal could possibly have over it is its order. Ideas?
  14. We recently had a WoB that part of the reason Odium splintered Devotion and Dominion was to prevent them from finding new Vessels, or worse, combining into a hybrid Shard like Harmony, gaining some form of sentience and seeking out a Host. This got me to thinking, who could possibly have embodied the opposing forces generated by Devotion and Dominion well enough to absorb both Shards? Who has a strong desire to dominate those around her, while remaining devoted to them? Is a human the only option for a Vessel? This is the point where my musings become far less serious: The only answer I could come up with was my dog. She has an Alpha personality, and feels the need to dominate and subjugate others around her, thoroughly. Yet she remains completely devoted to her family and the members of her pack, willing to put herself in harms way to defend them. So my proposed candidate for a bearer of the fused Shards of Dominion and Devotion after they un-splinter, is a dog, who will proceed to gain greater intellect from absorbance of Investiture.
  15. theory

    *After reflecting on this, I've changed the name of this theory from "Why the Dor Exists in the Cognitive Realm" to "The Origin of the Dor." I think this better captures the Intent of my post! In a conversation over on Yata's Theory about the splintering and death of Aona (Devotion) and Skai (Dominion), I've realized that I would like to propose a theory about the Dor and why it exists in the Cognitive Realm. I believe that the Dor has always existed, intentionally (not the result of splintering). Aona and Skai were lovers, whose relationship was a perfect example of "unity." When they took up the power of the shards Devotion and Dominion, this relationship remained, and they went to Sel together. While we see Preservation and Ruin working in direct opposition to one another on Scadrial, Devotion and Dominion were fused together in perfect unity, guided by the relationship of their Vessels. Aona and Skai created all things together on Sel, placing Innate Investiture in all things in the form of the Dor (similar to Preservation). Jesker is the most ancient religion we know about on Sel, and per Galladon it teaches that the Dor exists in everything. To me, this predates any information we otherwise have about Shu-Korath or Shu-Dereth, which only appeared within the last few centuries or so on Sel (by the influence of Keshu, a possible worldhopper). By why would the Dor, this divine force of power, exist in the Cognitive Realm? Because, like so many things in life, it's all about RELATIONSHIPS! When two people come together, entering a state of intimacy with one another, they remain two separate individuals, yet create a third, new thing called a relationship. The relationship is a separate entity from both parties, and yet they are both actively participating in it. This new "thing" is the cognitive creation of both people involved, the fusion of shared hopes, dreams, goals, plans, etc. While you can't touch a relationship, it is absolutely a real thing, with power and influence that exists even after someone dies or the relationship ends. This is what I propose occurred with Aona and Skai. They fused the divine power of Devotion and Dominion (which exists in the Spiritual Realm separately) into one new power/shard we understand as the Dor/Unity. This Unity shard never existed in the Spiritual or Physical Realms, yet just like a relationship, it was completely real. It makes sense to me that something like this would have to exist in the Cognitive Realm, as it was made reality by Aona and Skai - the example of perfect, unified love. Brandon, writing from the Christian influence of his own life, would be very familiar with the Biblical concepts of the origin of relationships when God spoke to Adam and Eve: Aona and Skai, bound together as one, created the "one flesh" that we know as the Dor. This was all well and good until Rayse (Odium) stepped in and killed them. *Pause for moment of sadness :*( While the participants in the relationship died (Aona and Skai), the relationship itself (Unity) lived on, albiet very messily because now, that power resting in the Cognitive Realm, originally unified and guided by two divine Identities, has no divine Identity other than the original Intents of Devotion and Dominion to guide it. Plus, whatever effect splintering a shard has on said Intents is also affecting it. There it is! =) I know much of this is speculation, but until we learn more from an Elantris sequel/prequel, this is how I understand it!
  16. Brandon says that Adonalsium left only “Ambient Magic” on each Shardworld – magic that is part of the natural ecosystem but cannot be commanded by mortals. The magic of First of the Sun in Sixth of the Dusk and the pre-human Rosharan ecosystem are examples. I propose that the Dor is the Investiture Adonalsium left on Sel and that it fuels all of Sel’s pre-Shattering Ambient Magic. Devotion and Dominion later made changes to the Dor to allow mortals to command it. Adonalsium placed the Dor into Sel’s ground and thereby created Sel’s “location-based” magic – different Ambient Magic in different Physical Realm locations. Evidence of the Dor’s ground location: (i) Uncontrolled Dor caused the chasm explosion; (ii) Arelenes use the phrase “Domi below”; and (iii) when Raoden finished the “chasm line,” the Dor “exploded from the ground.” Here’s how I think the Dor worked before Devotion and Dominion showed up: 1. The Dor forges a Connection between the lifeforms of a place and the place itself. Each location’s magical “nutrients” leach into the location’s soil and become part of the food chain. Every local lifeform absorbs this Investiture. 2. The Connection between person and place resembles the bond between Splinter and Magic User. The stronger the bond, the more effective the magic usage. Distance is one factor in the Connection’s strength. Brandon says “bloodlines” is another. Children of parents from two different places may have a weaker Connection to a parent’s home territory than the parent, even if the child currently lives there 3. Sel seems an exercise in “speciation,” the evolutionary process by which isolated biological populations evolve into separate species. On Sel, the evolutionary differences are magical. We don’t know how or why these magical populations were initially isolated. Perhaps Sel is veined with aluminum. I previously thought Sel’s location-based magic results from the Shards’ Splintering. I now think location-based Ambient Magic predates the Splintering. Brandon says his “hard-core fans” are not “thinking right” about Sel’s location-based magic. I believe he means we think too much about the Shards’ influence and not enough about Adonalsium’s. That conclusion probably applies to all magic systems, except for Scadrial’s, the only planet created by Shards.
  17. You know, I think we kind of take it for granted how much we know about the cosmere. I remember not so long ago that Sel and Elantris was a complete mystery. We all argued over what Aona's Shard was, mostly to no avail. We had no idea about how the Shaod happened, and virtually no clue to how the Dor worked. These two mysteries have made theorizing about Sel pretty hard, to say the least. With the knowledge of Aona's Shard being Devotion, the theory that people who are particularly devoted to something get taken by the Shaod makes perfect sense, and matches with the Principle of Intent. Though a new mystery arose with Forgery and Bloodsealing: why are Selish magics so region locked, and what's so important about the land? Well, Kerry has pretty much answered this here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3363-devotion-dominion-and-magic-on-sel/ So really, the prime theoretical difficulty with Sel is the Dor. That's what this theory will hope to explain. Sel is very unique in its magic. Scadrial makes sense having three distinct magic systems, but Sel is way different, despite having just two powers. Even discounting the fact that there are way more than three magics on Sel, they are odd: they all channel the Dor, not Devotion or Dominion independently. They all focus the same power. And that's very bizarre, considering Scadrial's magics. Why does the Dor appear to act some homogenous thing? Any way you slice and dice it, it's odd. Is the Dor Devotion's power? No, because the Dakhor magic isn't really accessed in a way in line with Devotion--it really feels a lot more Dominion-like. Dakhor channels the Dor just as AonDor and Forgery do. So, clearly the Dor is some bizarre combination of Devotion and Dominion, for some reason. And no one has (to my knowledge) really given a complete treatise on why that might be. Any reasoning on the Dor's nature would need to explain how it is related to both Devotion and Dominion, and why it is this homogenous entity. It's certainly homogenous enough that Brandon has no qualms saying that virtually every Selish magic channels the Dor. First of all, I'm kind of assuming you've already read the Letter, which says Devotion and Dominion have Splintered. Additionally, much of the power left there is not under anything's control: Why does Brandon say "much" of the power on Sel? Well, the Seons and Skaze are related to Splinters, so those are the things controlling part of the power. But the rest? Presumably the Dor. So what is the Dor? The answer, I believe, comes straight from this quote: This blew me away. But, considering how important I find a Shard's intent, it's not exactly surprising that a way of altering the Shards is really fascinating to me. There's a discussion on this particular quote over here, and Windrunner and Senor Feesh suggested that this may have happened to Devotion and Dominion--that they are intermingled as well. If you'll allow me, I'd like to name this "intermingling" effect as convergence, as something this important--Shards beginning to merge--certainly would warrant an in-world term, I think. It also has a nice parallel with "conflux," which is what Brandon named a book that has to do with multiple worlds in a very direct fashion (instead of in the background, as things are now in the books). So, Ruin and Preservation are currently converging. This is because a common mind is holding them. I propose that Devotion and Dominion are also converging as well. But, the obvious question next is, why the heck would they be converging? Presumably, Sazed holding both Ruin and Preservation--one mind holding two powers--imposes some Cognitive change on the Shards. In the Realmatic terms like Shai, they are like two bricks in a wall, and they begin to think of themselves as a wall, not two separate bricks. This is, I think, the most intuitive way to explain Ruin and Preservation converging: the powers themselves are beginning to think of themselves as part of a greater whole, thus intermingling them to be considered Harmony. I would only assume that the longer Sazed holds these two power, the more Ruin and Preservation will see themselves as Harmony instead, perhaps eventually literally becoming one Shard permanently. As of now, they can still be split, so that indicates to me that this process definitely hasn't finished yet. Though, I suppose you could say that even a Shard isn't permanent, as Odium certainly Splintered Devotion and Dominion. The exact specifics on Ruin and Preservation's convergence to Harmony is certainly worth discussing, but let's switch back to Devotion and Dominion. Obviously whatever happened with Sazed didn't at all happen with Devotion and Dominion; no common mind holds them both. In fact, they are both more broken than ever. But that may be exactly the key. Whereas Ruin and Preservation in the order that Sazed's control of them imposes, Devotion and Dominion and both similar in that they are both without holders and pretty broken. I propose that this also makes Devotion and Dominion converge, and this combined power is exactly what the Dor is. Think of two vases, one white, and one black--Devotion and Dominion. Now throw them on the ground, so hard that they break into tiny pieces. Collect that pile, mix them up, and zoom out. If the pieces are small enough, the pile no longer looks like black or white; it looks grey instead. When two things are broken, they can combine in new ways, like two liquids forming a completely new mixture. Now I imagine this is a little different in Devotion and Dominion's case, as their pieces would be still tied to their respective intent, but I think eventually, this dramatic change from Odium Splintering them would mean that the leftover fragments would see themselves as a part of a new whole. After all, they both aren't being held, and are both broken. I think this makes a lot of sense as for why the Dor is the way that it is. (Now, you may wonder why I didn't use the word "Splinter" to describe these pieces of Devotion and Dominion, considering Odium Splintered them. Well, we know the Aons at the heart of the Seons are Splinters, and to no one's surprise Brandon hinted that Skaze are similar: The Seons and Skaze--presumably Devotion and Dominion's Splinters--are not enough of a release valve. So this means that there is a lot of power that isn't under anything's control. Duh, since there was no indication the Dor acted any other way. In lieu of a cosmere term to call the pieces of Devotion and Dominion's power, that's why I stayed with vague words like "fragments." We just can't really say they are Splinters, or anything about them.) I totally understand if the analogy I made isn't particularly compelling, but it certainly matches with our conception with the Dor being a unified, mindless whole. It fits with those quotes above. But, maybe you want a little more persuading, so let's talk about some consequences of Devotion and Dominion's convergence, especially on magic. Before Devotion and Dominion's Splintering, magic worked differently on Sel (though I can't find that quote right now). It isn't a big leap to say that perhaps the regionalizing of Selish magic happened due to the Splintering of the Shard. Maybe before the Splintering, there were three magics on Sel, like Scadrial. Kerry's theory about Identity, people have an Identity tied their nationality, culture, and heritage. Her theory basically explains in how magic can be tied to the land, and how it lines up with Devotion and Dominion's intents. But why might have Devotion and Dominion's Splintering even had this effect of tying the magic to the land? Well, Allomancy requires a connection to Preservation, and on a less magical level, people that are freaking ruinous would use Hemalurgy. Perhaps, due to Devotion and Dominion's Splintering and this convergence, people can't use magic with a connection to Devotion or Dominion directly, because they don't exist in the same way. Instead, the "largest" thing that people have a connection or Identity to--instead these all-powerful Shards--is their culture and nationality. People with a strong Devotion or Dominion with that, as Kerry's theory suggests, would now be able to use magic. It's all because Devotion and Dominion are Splintered, and their power doesn't have as strong of identity, so it is shaped by the identity of manmade, regional borders. If anything, the Reod and the Chasm teaches us that these magics are actually very fluid. Aons that worked a thousand years ago may need to be refined. Perhaps as regions and countries change, or as ethnicities converge (see what I did there?) entirely different magics can form. Now, I'll admit, I'm not entirely sure if each regional magic is of Devotion or Dominion explicitly. After all, that's been the standing assumption with AonDor: it's of Devotion, not Dominion, and likewise Dakhor is of Dominion, not Devotion. But, it's a lot harder with ChayShan, Forgery, and Bloodsealing to decide. I am leaning to the idea that each magic can be in line with any sort of combination of Devotion and Dominion. Kerry connects all regional magics with both Devotion and Dominion, so I don't find this hard to believe. So, maybe presently on Sel, a magic is a certain percentage Devotion and Dominion. Unlike Scadrial where magics are 100% Preservation, 100% Ruin, or a 50/50 split, on Sel you could have 73%/27%. Who knows. It's entirely possible that we think of AonDor and Dakhor as Devotion and Dominion-heavy magics because the Seons and Skaze, which are related to Splinters of Devotion and Dominion, exist in these two regions, and so tilt the region's balance toward one Shard or the other. In fact, though I totally riffed that just now, it seems to make sense with the Identity idea. A region's Identity would be related to a ton of different factors, and maybe the nature of a given culture tilts the way a region's magic accesses Devotion and Dominion. Here's an interesting quote on that note: So it's the exact nature of the Dor which makes it regionalized. I don't think the Dor has an intent, like Harmony does. The Dor is a product of chaos and brokenness. When something changes in the Physical and Cognitive, this can have a reflection in the Dor, so these distinct cultural Identities have an effect on the Dor. What do you think? Admittedly, while this works really well for Sel, I'm not sure what is different on Roshar, which despite having Honor Splintered, has a non-regionalized magic in Surgebinding. It could just be that the nature of Honor and Cultivation don't result in regionalization. But, it would explain how some spren are of Honor and Cultivation. It's hard to say at this point, and while there can be more to this than I'm catching here, it seems very theoretically solid for Sel.
  18. Background Just before the 10th Anniversary Leatherbound Elantris was released, @Yata had been conceiving a theory regarding the nature of the Dor, which prompted me to ask Brandon a question in an attempt to gather some information that might aid him. When I received my signed copy in the mail, I shared the results with him immediately, and had intended to post about it shortly after, but for one reason or another never got to it. After finishing work this morning, I had found one of my coworkers had read the Stormlight Archive, and decided to lend him my copy of Elantris so that I could open his eyes up to the whole Cosmere... but first, I decided, I would finally take the picture and post it for all to see. This inevitably led me to getting in a discussion about the Dor with another member of this forums, @The Young Bard. During our conversation, I had a thought that I'm genuinely surprised has not been mentioned before (it's possible it has, but after some searching I've yet to find anything that matches it exactly). Personalized Leatherbound For those interested, my question and a picture of Brandon's answer will be in the following spoiler: Theory As the title states, I now believe that specifically Jaddeth, and potentially Domi, are the Cognitive Shadows of Skai and Aona respectively. The theory began when I read this exerpt from the Coppermind about Jaddeth: Emphasis mine. Immediately two separate thoughts crossed my mind upon reading this statement. First, that "the Skaze have a large amount of influence on most politics and most working in Fjordell." Second, that "the Stormfather is the Cognitive Shadow of Honor." Exploring those thoughts further, we know that the Skaze are Splinters, similar to the Honorspren on Roshar. We know that the Honorspren are loyal to the Stormfather, due to him being a cognitive remnant of their original (whole) form. We also know that through Honor's Intent, the Stormfather is required to bestow visions upon a man that meets a certain set of requirements (most recently, Dalinar). As a result, I suspect that Jaddeth is Skai's Cognitive Shadow, and that Wyrn is Jaddeth's Dalinar; a "prophet" who's purpose is to fulfill Dominion's last wishes, along with his Cognitive Shadow and subsequent Splinters. Just this morning, I read @VirtuousTraveller's theory about The Origin of the Dor, and I'm starting to believe that this might be true. From Bands of Mourning, we know that when a person dies, their spiritual aspect (innate investiture) returns to its original source to be distributed again, while their cognitive aspect moves on to the Beyond. When Odium Splinters another Shard, we know that their Cognitive Aspect is broken into many tiny pieces (Spren, Seons, Skaze), which end up being manifested in the Physical Realm. In the case of Devotion and Dominion, I believe all of their Spiritual Essence culminated in the Cognitive Realm, due to the nature of their relationship, and inevitably fused together, creating the shard of Unity. Meanwhile, their individual Cognitive Aspects became their respective Splinters, and a Cognitive Shadow was left behind. These Cognitive Shadows would then become altered by the two branches of the Shu-Keseg religion (Dereth and Korath, aka unity through domination and unity through love). Both of these Cognitive Shadows wish to achieve the same thing; unity. Except without Skai and Aona's personalities to control them, they seek a means to achieve those goals through their own specific intents, and sadly, as of Elantris, it's clear that Dominion is winning. It has been discussed before that all Elantrians are chosen because they are "devoted" to something in some way, yet it still appears random because not everyone who is devoted is affected by the Sheod. Though I never made the connection before, this reminds me a lot of Endowment and the Returned. We know that Endowment specifically asks people who sacrifice their lives for a cause to become Returned. However, given how few Returned there are, I imagine that not everyone who dies in a heroic way gets this offer. Perhaps a lot of them refuse it, but I am sure that if given the chance, most people who would earn that gift in the first place would be the type to take on the responsibility of stopping a future (cataclysmic) event. I believe that Domi, the Cognitive Shadow of Aona, is doing the same thing, except instead of asking she is thrusting the power upon those she deems worthy. This likewise matches what Nightwatcher, who is thought to be a Spren of Cultivation, is doing by granting her boons and curses. It also would serve to explain why only certain races are able to become Elantrians; Arelon, Teod, and Duladel are the last countries in the world to believe in her (or in Duladel's case, the idea of a unified Overspirit?). I would not be surprised if this has been discussed before, or at least some variation of it, but in the case of Jaddeth and Wyrn for sure, this is my headcannon for what's going down. I would love to hear what others think, positive or negative, and likewise would appreciate it if someone asked one of the following questions in the future, or something akin to them. Is Wyrn to Jaddeth what Dalinar is to the Stormfather? Is Jaddeth the Cognitive Shadow of Skai? Does Aona's Cognitive Shadow decide who becomes an Elantrian? Is the voice Raoden hears when he enters the Lake / Pool Aona's Cognitive Shadow?
  19. SPOILER ALL COSMERE related possibly Shards are considered as "gods" and most powerful thing in the cosmere as of the moment but out of all the shards that have been revealed through the cosmere novels Mistborn, Stormlight Archives, Elantris, Warbreaker, White Sand, even WoB's and whatever form of story that i missed that Mr. Sanderson produced that is cosmere related. So out of the limited information and exposure we had with the shards who did you find most interesting whether it'd be due to the intent, the vessel behind it, the shardworld he/she/it resides or interaction with the other shards, even the ire from Hoid counts too and/or just the things that shard has done so far ? Also some questions i'm curious about Do you guys think Odium has a big opposite shard not Honor and doesn't have to be like perfect opposite kinda like preservation/ruin ? Apparently Bavadin(Autonomy) is Mr. Sanderson's favorite shard, thoughts on the dude especially for White Sand readers ? Do you agree that he's a menace like Hoid suggests in his letter grouping him up with Rayse ? Would you count him as ally or enemy in general ? It seems that Tanavast mentioned in one of Dalinar's dreams that Odium tasted defeat too many times and would not wanna taste defeat again. Do you think that means that Rayse was actually losing between him and Tanavast before Honor got rekt ? Or it was just a stalemate. How many other malevolent shards are there apart from Ruin and Odium ? Possibly Chaos maybe Though we have limited knowledge about shards my favorite is probably Ruin, he seems earnestly thinking he could help people by ending them lol . I would've said Harmony but if only the dude acts more like Ruin than preservation, he feels like a caretaker more than somebody who is actually half Ruin tbh, i wish he was more malevolent since he still represents enthrophy/change/death/destruction. Well that's all . Thoughts?
  20. I often have problem to sleep and in a long night my mind follow his own thread to unexpected goals, tonight something struck me. Probably it's just a coincidence or some meaningles fact, but here I am. Like everyone of you know, on Sel every Magic System is fueled by the Dor, a source of power from the Cognitive Realm come to be by the merging of Devotion and Dominion's powers (like someone more poetic than me said, "The Selish channel their gods' corpses for thier magic") and we know that on Sel there is actually a single magic system Form-Based who manifest itself different in every region/country (this is actually not really important from my point, but it's better to refresh some memories). On Sel we know at least 6 Magic Systems (some more and some less): AonDor, Dakhor, ChayShan, Forgery, Bloodsealing and an unamed potion's magic. Here I noticed something strange, the only Magic Systems that twist the users are AonDor and Dakhor, now I know someone may argue saing AonDor doesn't twist the user and only "change" it, but really it's just semantic... There is no a great difference between the Shaod and the Dakhor pray to change a monk (just one of these is automated and the other is not). These are also the only Magic Systems that seem align with Devotion (AonDor) and Dominion (Dahkor)'s Intents. Therefore this is my point: Is It possible that the Magic Users were twisted/changed to allow them to filter the Dor and use only the Devotion OR Dominion's Investiture to perform their Magic ? (or some other unbalance in their magic need a not-standard user to be used) I am not really convinced on this idea, but it isn't something a can simply ignore without some counterproof.
  21. Following is analysis and interpretation of how Selish magic came to be and how it currently works. Aona and Skai were lovers pre-Shattering. They continued their relationship post-Shattering, as Shards (presumably on a more Platonic basis, both literally and figuratively). Pre-splintering, Dominion’s investiture provided access to the magic, wherever on Sel one was. This is the “forms programming” aspect of Selish magic that MISTER Sanderson has described. Dominion thus gave Selians (?) the cognitive commands necessary to use his and Devotion’s power – just like the control freak you’d expect someone named “Dominion” to be. I speculate that the power, even then, was similar to the Dor – a combination of Dominion’s and Devotion’s investiture reflecting their relationship, their magic intertwined and combined. It might even have been the Dor itself, since (using the Roshar precedent) splintering doesn’t appear to affect a Shard’s power as much as its mind, the cognitive means of directing the power. I further speculate that the solid state of Dominion’s “body,” its latent Physical Realm power, existed on that moon that Shai believes disintegrated and fell to Sel to become, among other things, soulstone. (Shai…Skai…Skaa...coincidence?) I believe that Devotion’s solid body was located in or near the chasm that the earthquake created. I base this conclusion on various characters exclaiming, “Domi below.” Those statements suggest that Devotion’s worshippers (ignore the name for a moment) thought she resided in the planet. Odium now splinters the two of them. Though this is “taxing” on him, splintering these two Shards is probably easier than any other pair, because they had created a single magic system from their investiture – it was like splintering a single Shard. Splintering caused Dominion’s body to collapse into meteors falling over Sel. Everywhere his investiture fell, a NEW FORM for accessing the magic developed. Forgery, Bloodsealing, Dakhor, ChayShan all provide their user access to the Dor. AonDor may be the same, with the Aons providing the cognitive link to the Dor also coming from Dominion, but I’m uncertain. I think Arelon may have always been the place where Devotion was strongest, because of the proximity of her Physical Realm investiture at the chasm. Thus, contrary to everywhere else on Sel, practitioners of Devotion’s magic may have accessed the Dor using Devotion’s own commands. The Dor itself may be an example of mandate-meshing, two magics merging into a third magic, rather than a mere mixture of each. Given the emotional closeness of Dominion and Devotion, I would expect their minds/cognitive investiture to mingle in the Cognitive Realm, changing each of them into something else. These changes may explain why Areloners (?) worship “Domi” and why “Omi” is the Aon for love. An open question is why Dakhor forms of Dor magic didn’t appear until about 300 years before the events of Elantris. I speculate that this Dominion moon meteor may have been buried deep into the ground when it struck and has only recently been uncovered. Alternatively,Dominion's Shardpool may have been discovered near the monastery at that time. MISTER Sanderson has referenced how dangerous Sel’s Cognitive Realm is. We’ve assumed that’s because, post-splintering with the minds of Devotion and Dominion now dead, the Shards’ cognitive investiture did not find other minds through which to exercise power. Thus, bits of their cognitive investiture achieved sentience on their own with “bizarre effects.” I don’t know that there’s a whole lot new here. I just thought I would organize my thoughts on the subject and see what others have to say. Regards all!
  22. I didn't want to thread-jack, and although I'm sure there must be a good thread foe this somewhere, my forum-fu has failed me and I can't find one where this is the focus of the original discussion. So, how is it done? Does Odium wait until a Shard is already weak, before smashing himself against it (as per Vin taking down Ati, but more unbalanced)? I suspect if this was the method, he'd need a long time to recover as he'd inevitably be depleting his own essence by doing so. Others have speculated on the quote from Tanavast, that it may in some way come down to a fight between champions, some kind of Vassal chosen by the Shards. Still others have considered the idea that it in some way involves the larger population of a world, and that Alethkar and the Thrill may be a clue towards this. For myself, I don't know, but it's fun to speculate. As a final point, here's a quote from Elantris, the last line of chapter 6: A simple observation, or the legacy of Odium's visit to Sel? You decide!
  23. Disclaimer: The following is primarily speculation and not particularly well researched. It was simply a thought that turned into a few paragraphs. Feel free to correct, comment, and point out similar theories. The Cognitive Realm is a realm filled with people's perceptions, is it not? And the Dor is stuck there, right? Is the Dor more connected to people's actual Spiritual connection to an ideal of a country, or is it more connected to their perception of who they are and where they are? If the latter is so, then perhaps this is why each realm has "evolved" a magic system with different effects, since the Dor, while not bound to each country, perceives itself as belonging to different areas. Perhaps there is a Cognitive sentience to each country, that is, it is so strongly seen as its own place, that it has a mind of its own. Now this allows for each Dominion to see itself uniquely from each other Dominion and each one attracts parts of the Dor. I can imagine whorls of Investiture clumping around each Dominion's hub. Perhaps MaiPon has a weaker Cognitive identity, and as such, attracts less of the Dor, and has a less Investiture-intense magic system. (There are many WoBs that say that Forged objects are minimally invested.) Arelon, on the other hand, has a strong cultural and national identity (why Teod is included, I don't know), leading to more Investiture from the Dor, and the powerful, Investiture-rich AonDor. A possible result of this: If a nation, such as Duladel, is destroyed both nationally and culturally, then the Dor could no longer find any "Duladen" minds to support a Duladen-specific manifestation of the Dor, which is why it is such a shame that no one knows the Jesker religion anymore and the Mysteries have (probably) become just occult practices. If the Duladen culture is replaced by Fjordell's culture, then perhaps the Dakhor monks' bone patterns would change to reflect the geographic expansion. Likewise, if you are in an area that is not seen as Arelish, then the AonDor's portion of the Dor does not extend that far. As you go further and further from the "hub", the lower the concentration of Investiture available for your specific geographic key is. This model would predict less powerful Aons in Teod, but much less effective in Fjordell, even if it is close by. This seems to be contradicted by the Dakhor monks being powerful everywhere, but I would argue that they are simply already Invested, and don't have to access the Dor nearly as often except when imbuing others of their order with power. Summary: I hypothesize that there are hub-like points for the Dor on Sel, centering around the strongest Cognitive cultural/national self-identity, leading to the compartmentalized magic system with many manifestations across the globe that we see today.
  24. Listen to us develop this theory live, in real-time, in the first episode of the Shardkeepers Podcast! [A link will go here when it's available. For now, use your imagination.] So, while recording the Shardkeepers Podcast, I was hit with a sudden lightbulb about magic on Sel. A lot of credit goes to Chaos here, since talking about his theory is what caused me to think of it this way, so a big shoutout to him. Anyways, I think I've figured out a feasible way to explain what's going on on Sel, and specifically, what's up with these "region-locked" magics, so to speak. First, we need to take a good look at the nature of the Shards on Sel. For that, I want to turn to the dictionary definitions of their names, so I went ahead and grabbed them from dictionary.com. You can see them right here: For Devotion, my interpretation of current theorizing trends is that we tend to focus on the first two definitions primarily, but I want to invite you guys to make sure and include the third as a possible interpretation. Devotion, however, is pretty straightforward. Meanwhile, Dominion -- well, Dominion is interesting. I've read a lot of things associating Dominion with Definition #2 - control, domination - probably in part by whom we tend to associate with that particular Shard. However, I'm beginning to think that we're not looking at Dominion in the right light. I think we need to view Dominion primarily as it is portrayed in Definition #3 (though #1 and #4 are pretty applicable as well, so include those if you like). Bearing with me so far? Okay? Good. Okay. So. We've got Devotion, which like I said before, is pretty self-explanatory and not that hard to expand a definition on. We've also got Dominion, thinking of it in the sense of a territory or domain instead of the commonly perceived role of domination. That covers the nature of the two Shards we're dealing with here. In order to continue, let's talk about what we know about the Dor. First, I have a quote from Brandon on our very own forum Q&A. I pulled this from Windy's archive, which is much easier to sort through than the actual thread, so I can't link to the exact post, but I'll offer free rep to anyone who can find it for me. Anyways, here's the quote: So. This is interesting. Obviously a lot hinges on this, but for the sake of this theory, I will be operating under the assumption that yes, the Dor is powered by both of them. Moving on to this reddit post (formatting mine): Okay. So. Pretty self explanatory here; I don't need to expand on it any more. Moving on to the next post: Interesting. We've seen the bit about being born in a particular region on Sel before, very clearly spelled out in Elantris, but the idea of rewriting a connection is new. That, however, is for a different theory. Right now, I want to focus on that affinity. What is it, exactly? The answer, I believe, lies in this post (emphasis/formatting mine): Okay, so obviously we're not dealing with Odium or Scadrial here, but look at that italicized sentence again. "People born on Scadrial have an Identity tied to it and its magic." Note the capital I here. Is the Identity of the people of Scadrial that ties them to its magic in particular the same as the affinity that ties people on Sel to their local region's magic? It certainly seems that way. So, how are we looking so far? To sum it up, here's what we have so far: The Dor is (assumedly) fueled by both Devotion (presumed to be: dedication, attachment, assignment) and Dominion (presumed to be: domain, territory, nation). All regional magics on Sel are different manifestations of what is, essentially, the same magic. Everyone on Sel is born with an affinity for their region's magic. This affinity, for the sake of this theory, is assumed to be Identity. Now, I'm sure a lot of you already know where I'm going with this. Sel is a very special instance of magic in the Cosmere: not only are the magics region-based, everything seems to arrange very neatly along cultural and political borders. Why is this? What separates these region-based magics from one another, and what causes this almost-too-tidy separation? The answer, I believe, is the Shards themselves, Dominion and Devotion, and how they interact with the Identity of the people of Sel. This is where my interpretation of the name Dominion is key. Look at the people in our own world. If you were born and raised in America, you tend to view yourself as American. Those from England tend to think of themselves as being English. Sure, we're all citizens of Planet Earth, but when asked what country we're from, we're probably not going to tell people that we're Earthlings. We're going to say English, American, Australian, Canadian, whatever. Now, apply that to the people of Sel. Here we have the Arelish, the Jindo, the MaiPon, and all the rest. All of the peoples on Sel have their own cultural and national Identity, and why shouldn't they? It's a perfectly normal thing to do. The Emperor's Soul taught us a lot about how Identity works. How we view ourselves has a huge impact on who and what we are, and on a very fundamental level at that. Particularly in a setting where Identity has profound cosmological implications, is it really so hard to believe that it would affect the manifestation of a magic system powered by Shards named Dominion and Devotion? And so you have this vast array of magics, each varying manifestations of the same magic, each tied to a certain part of the world. A culture, a way of life, a country. A Dominion. What would the citizens of a country usually feel towards their people, their way of life? Some measure of loyalty, patriotism, or maybe just an association with their cultural identity and who they are. Devotion, so to speak. Of course, we have the unusual cases. Those living close to the Arelish border have sometimes been taken by the Shaod, but that's really not so strange when you come to think of it. Living on the border between two nations, it is only natural for some people to associate somewhat with both of them. Galladon, despite being a Dula, spent much of his life in Elantris, quite possibly giving him the Identity needed to be chosen by the Shaod. The Jindoeese have a very strong cultural Identity, giving them a tie to their region's magic no matter where they live. To sum it up in a very cheesy way, the magic you have access to if you're from Sel depends on which Dominion to which you owe your Devotion. And that, my friends, is how I propose magic on Sel works.
  25. I had this idea why only people who has been to Arelon very long time go through the Shaod someday is because the proximity of the Shardpool there. But then as all 5 of the magic systems on Sel is regional I don't have any idea to why they would be where they are. Maybe a solid form of Devotion or Dominion is situated there or the gasform... Any WoB conflicting this bad theory or does anyone have any other better theories? Feel free to reply