Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'allomancy'.



More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


Categories

  • Brandon and Book News
  • Events, Signings, & Giveaways
  • Columns and Features
  • Site News
  • Shardcast

Forums

  • 17th Shard
    • Introduce Yourself!
    • 17th Shard Discussion
    • The Coppermind Wiki
    • Arcanum Discussion
  • Brandon Sanderson
    • General Brandon Discussion
    • Events and Signings
    • Sanderson Fan Works
    • Arcanum, the Brandon Sanderson Archive
  • The Cosmere
    • Cosmere Q&A
    • Cosmere Discussion
    • Stormlight Archive
    • Mistborn
    • Elantris and Emperor's Soul
    • Warbreaker
    • White Sand
    • Cosmere Short Stories
    • Unpublished Works
  • Non-cosmere Works
    • The Reckoners
    • The Rithmatist
    • Skyward Spoiler Board
    • Alcatraz
    • Other Stories
    • The Wheel of Time
  • Related Works
    • Writing Excuses
    • Reading Excuses
    • TWG Archive
  • Community
    • General Discussion
    • Entertainment Discussion
    • Science, Tech, and Math Discussion
    • Creator's Corner
    • Role-Playing
    • Social Groups, Clans, and Guilds

Blogs

  • Chaos' Blog
  • Leinton's Blog
  • 17th Shard Blog
  • KChan's Blog
  • Puck's Blag
  • Brandon's Blog
  • The Name of your Blog
  • Darth Squirrely's Blog
  • Tales of a Firebug
  • borborygmus' Blog
  • Zeadman's Blog
  • zas678's Blog
  • The Basement
  • Addy's Avocations
  • Zarepath's Blog
  • First time reading The Well Of Ascension
  • Seshperankh's Blog
  • "I Have Opinions About Books"
  • Test
  • Which actors would you like to see playing the characters of Mistborn?
  • Drifted Mists
  • Jaron's Realm
  • Roshar Speculative Theories
  • ChrisHamatake's Blog
  • Paradox Flint's Blog
  • Elder Stay's Blog
  • Deoradhan's Blog
  • Storm Blessed's Blog
  • Elwynn's Blog
  • firstRainbowRose's Blog
  • Rotabush ShardBlog
  • Hoid's Compendium
  • InterContinental Adventures
  • Claincy Creates
  • WoR Thoughts and Questions
  • Blogfalcon
  • What If I Told You
  • What Happened in Oregon
  • David Coppercloud's Blog
  • yurisses' notes and theories
  • Lark Adventures
  • LeftInch's Blog
  • patriciamcclellan841's Blog
  • Something about everything (and a bit on the side)
  • Theorytime Monthly
  • LUNA's Poetry
  • Inspiration Board
  • Trying to be Useful for a Change
  • Praltrix
  • Vascular X
  • http://www.supplementssouthafrica.co.za/testo-ultra-south-africa/
  • Gleam And Glow Cream Review
  • g10 force

Calendars

  • Community Calendar

Found 270 results

  1. I've been playing around with ideas as to how to overcome atium, and I've thought that perhaps a feruchemist tapping steel would be able to exploit the fact that atium still relies on your reactions. An allomancer burning atium would see your atium shadow, but if a feruchemist were tapping enough steel then perhaps they would be able to move too fast for even the enhanced mind that atium provides to comprehend. I got this idea when I was reading Sazed's fight with Marsh. There was a point where he was moving too fast for Marsh to react, so perhaps if he were to use that same technique, but tapping more steel, on someone burning atium then perhaps it would work. I welcome your thoughts.
  2. How exactly did Rashek become as powerful as he did? Yes, his feruchemy was enhanced via compounding but that doesn't explain his immense strength as a mistborn. Nor was the fact that he became mistborn from lerasium because even Elend wasn't as strong as he. Was his power a result of a strong connection to preservation after ascending? If that's the case then why wasn't Vin uber strong after ascension? Or was he simply a savant in all metals, using feruchemy to heal the negative effects of his savantism? I welcome your input.
  3. So my question is, what causes a person to be born as a mistborn as opposed to a misting? Is it simply random chance that you are a mistborn and not a misting? Is it influenced by the strength and purity of your noble bloodline or lineage? The potency of the bloodline has some credit since Kar makes a mention of Vin having to have very pure bloodlines to be as strong as she is (that is paraphrased from memory so I may be mistaken). And it could be possible that Kelsier had a pure bloodline on his noble side. However, this is challenged by the fact that there are many pure blood nobles who aren't mistborn. So perhaps it's a combination of the two? Or a factor I haven't considered. Anyway, I welcome your thoughts.
  4. Time for a speculation thread! Ignore for a moment the financial implications of having that much atium on hand. Let's imagine that there was someone, either a Mistborn or a Seer, who had burned enough atium to warp their spiritual aspect and become a savant. What sorts of things could they do with atium that normal burners could not? I imagine they'd be able to extend the length of the atium shadows they saw far into the future. But presumably prolonged exposure to that much concentrated power of a Shard might have additional unexpected effects. And I'm almost positive that one drawback of atium savantism would be an increased suceptibility to Ruin or another Shard's influence. Are godmetal savants even possible?
  5. Cost aside, what would an Aluminum Misting having burnt enough aluminum to become a savant do? Does aluminum even stick around instead of vanishing like all the other metals if you burn it? Would you somehow become more resistant to all forms of Investiture? That would be pretty funny. Stormlight spoilers:
  6. Hey,so,I'm going as a Mistborn for the Dublin Comic-con and I was wondering. What Noble Houses have enough Allomantic genes to get a Mistborn. You know,besides the Mistborn we already know about?
  7. Edit 3: Here's a quick look into my most recent progress - labels over targets, a more detailed HUD, and several physics tweaks. I'll edit what I can from the original post, but there's a lot of physics discussion in the replies that I highly suggest you read. Jofwu and I've discussed other possible relationships between Force and Distance, and there's a bit of a strange one that he came up with a while ago: Allomantic Force ∝ e ^ -d/D where d = distance and D = 16 When the target is right next to the Allomancer, e ^ -d/D approaches 1 and the AF approaches its maximum. When the target approaches an infinite distance away from the Allomancer, e ^ -d/D approaches 0 and the AF approaches 0. This strategy looks very similar to the linear relationship but avoids its icky discontinuity at the max range of the push. I like it a lot. For comparison, you can see all three Force-Distance relationships together here. Edit 2: Following Jofwu's footsteps, I had a conversation with /u/Phantine on reddit and am reconsidering how distance affects the Allomantic Force. I was originally confident in an inverse square relationship between Allomantic Force and the distance between the Allomancer and target, but through testing, a *linear* relationship has better handling and feels more reminiscent of Allomancers' movements in the books. I've added both as options in the game: The Allomantic Force is proportional to the inverse of the square of the distance between the Allomancer and the target When the target is right next to the Allomancer, the Allomantic Force approaches infinity. When the target approaches an infinite distance away from the Allomancy, the Allomantic Force approaches 0. The Allomantic Force decreases linearly with the distance between the Allomancer and the target. When the target is right next to the Allomancer, the Allomantic Force is at its maximum. When the target is at the max range (arbitrarily at 50 meters), the Allomantic Force is 0. I've also added the option to control the strength of your push through two control schemes: The player sets the *percentage* of the maximum possible force they can push with, or The player sets a *constant force* to try to push at, if possible. Edit 1: If you want to play the current build of the game, you can find it here on my GitHub. Aside from that, I've looked back at [8], @digitalbusker's post and see I misunderstood it a bit. I've re-read it and realized that I agree with it much more than I thought I did originally. In one paragraph, they said, This sounds just like the Allomantic Normal Force idea I used in the game. If you push on a target and the target can't move, the target pushes back on you as if there were a long, tangible line between you and the target. In this way, the ANF does work somewhat like an elastic collision. I did some more testing in the game and anything that involved directly manipulating velocities of the target or Allomancer worked poorly. I feel like sticking to forces rather than energy is the right way to go. Table of Contents I: Introduction I-a: My intent I-b: Current game progress & Videos I-c: Referenced forum posts I-d: Definitions II: Force, mass, and acceleration of a push III: Anchors and the pole analogy IV: Math V: Summary & Final points Part I: Introduction Over the summer I’ve been rereading Mistborn and have been thinking about the mechanics of Allomancy. I decided to have a go at recreating the physics of Ironpulling and Steelpushing in the Unity physics/game engine. I don’t intend on actually creating a game to sell (that’d be a bit illegal), so this is mostly an endeavor for personal fun. What follows is my current progress on the game as well as my current thoughts on the math and physics of Pushing and Pulling. Part I-a: My intent My goal is to take what Brandon describes in his books and do my best to create a working model of them in the Unity engine. My purpose in posting this here is to record my thoughts so I can be internally consistent, encourage discussion, and improve the game’s mechanics with your suggestions and criticisms. I don’t expect to perfectly recreate Allomancy as Brandon describes it in the books because there are some things with little connection to real-world physics (such as Feruchemical weight). I’ll try to give the pros and cons for all my decisions. If you disagree, tell me! I’ve been in my own personal bubble while making this, so I’d love some external input. Part I-b: Current game progress & Videos So far, I’ve implemented most of the physics and fundamentals of Ironpulling and Steelpushing. Here are some short videos: The setting: The sandbox I use for testing is based on Luthadel. There are metal poles stuck in haphazardly-placed buildings, and a few windows with metal frames/latches. At the intersection are metal objects of various masses, including coins, ingots, and 16-ton steel blocks. Blue metal lines: When the player (the grey sphere) begins passively burning metal, they see blue metal lines pointing towards nearby metal sources. The wider the line, the heavier the metal, and the brighter the line, the closer the target. Basic pushing/pulling: The player can “target” a metal. They can then push or pull on that metal. They can increase or decrease the strength of the push, as indicated by the wheel near the bottom. They can target multiple metals simultaneously (as indicated by the bright blue number beneath the wheel). Pull targets vs. Push targets: The player has separate targets for pulling (indicated by blue) and pushing (indicated by red). When the player pushes or pulls with specified push targets and pull targets, the player only pushes on the push targets and only pulls on the pull targets. If the player only has pull targets or only has push targets, they can push and pull on any target. Pushing/pulling with coins: The player can throw, drop, and pick up coins. The number in the lower right corner indicates the number of coins in the player’s pouch. Flying around Luthadel: It’s a bit tricky, but the player can fly between buildings by pulling on metal latches and pushing on coins. Some things are still a bit buggy, namely the camera, coin physics, and width of the white part of the blue/red line pointing at a target while pushing. Part I-c: Referenced forum posts Many of the ideas used in the calculations come from the work previous Sharders have done on making sense of Brandon’s magics. Here are some that I used, which I recommend to anyone interested in the physics of Allomancy: When I use specific ideas from these threads, I’ll mark it with a [#]. Other threads I found interesting: Part I-d: Definitions Key statements are italicized. Key terms are written in bold for their first appearance. Push – unless I specify otherwise, I’ll simply say “push” instead of “push/pull” to refer to the math of both steel and iron. It’s a lot easier to read while still means the same thing. All physics and rules of a pull are the same as a push, just in the opposite direction. Target – the metal that an Allomancer is currently pushing on. Coins are often a target. Distance – the distance between an Allomancer and their target. Anchor/anchored – a target is an anchor if it does not move. A lamppost, a coin stuck on the ground, and a metal roof would all be anchors. Note that the metal is the anchor, not the nearby wall/ground/stone. A target is unanchored if it is moving freely with no resistance. A target is partially anchored if it meets some resistance but is not fully anchored (i.e. a coin skidding on the ground). Allomantic Force (AF) – the force that an Allomancer directly exerts on a target while pushing. Equal in magnitude to the force that the target directly exerts on the Allomancer while pushing. The Allomantic force does not change if the target is anchored or unanchored. Allomantic Normal Force (ANF) – the force that is exerted on an Allomancer or target as a result of the opposing target or Allomancer's push or pull by the surrounding ground, walls, etc. I'll discuss this down below. Essentially, it's what makes anchored targets give that extra strength to your push. Now, let's jump into the physics of Allomancy. Part II: Force, mass, and acceleration of a push When Allomancers in the books refer to “weight,” they almost always mean mass. [1] Let’s ignore Feruchemical weight for now. When an Allomancer pushes on a target, the Allomancer exerts a force on the target that is equal and opposite to the force that the target exerts on the Allomancer. It’s F = ma, it’s Newton’s third law, and if anything else were the case, the physics of Mistborn would be far too distant from our world for a good simulation. This explains one of the core features of pushing and pulling: If you push on an object heavier than you, you will accelerate more than it (and vice-versa). You push on a coin out in front of you. The force is the same between you and the coin, but the coin has less mass, so it accelerates more than you. The coin goes flying, but you hardly move. Likewise, heavier objects (like cars) have more mass than you, so you accelerate more than them. The previous statements are most apparent with an Allomancer and target in free-fall or space, where the Allomancer and target (such as a coin) won’t be anchored by anything (such as the ground). When the Allomancer or target are anchored by a wall or the ground, things get complicated. Part III: Anchors and the pole analogy In the books, if an Allomancer is falling through the air, throws a coin downwards, and starts pushing on it, the Allomancer doesn’t feel much while the coin is falling through the air and unanchored. The Allomancer pushes on the coin, but their acceleration from the push is not enough to stop their fall. Once the coin hits the ground and stops moving, the Allomancer suddenly “can get a stronger push” and decelerate more strongly. Here is my interpretation: Pushing against an anchored coin on the ground has a similar effect as holding a long pole and physically pushing against the ground. The Normal Force due to the Allomantic Force (Allomantic Normal Force, or ANF) that the ground/wall/etc. exerts on the target is transferred to the Allomancer. If you held a long vertical pole and pushed down on the ground, the ground would push back on you and the pole. If you tried to push the pole into the ground, the ground would resist, and you could climb upwards relative to the ground. Allomancy mimics this effect. When pushing on the coin, it is like you are physically connected to the coin. If something resists your push, you experience that resistance. It's just like you're literally pushing against the coin with your fists. If the coin's in the air, hardly anything happens. If the coin's on the ground, the ground resists. I drew some free-body diagrams that hopefully help explain what I’m saying. In these, an Allomancer and coin are falling down. The Allomancer is pushing on the coin. Let me discuss two of the other theories as to how Allomancers get stronger pushes from anchored targets: When the coin is airborne, the allomancer is only pushing on the mass of the coin. But when the coin is anchored to the planet, they are also pushing on the mass of Scadrial/the ground around the coin, which causes the Allomancer to accelerate more. [not a quote, but the concept taken from 1] I’ll get into how mass affects the force later in the math section, but I want to now make something clear. With my interpretation, Allomancers push on the mass of metal, not the combined mass of metal and nearby non-metal (the planet). When pushing against an anchored coin, the Allomancer is only indirectly pushing on the ground – they are pushing on the coin, which pushes on the ground, which resists back on the coin, which resists back on the Allomancer – similar to holding a long pole and pushing on the ground. An Allomancer’s strength is the amount of kinetic energy they can add to the system of the coin and allomancer. When the Allomancer pushes on an unanchored target, that kinetic energy is distributed between the two, proportionally to their masses. But, when the target is stationary, their velocity is zero, so all of the kinetic energy is given to the allomancer (and vice-versa). [paraphrased from 8] I like this explanation. Honestly, I may agree with it more than with my own ANF theory. I tried it out, but it was a lot more difficult programming-wise than the ANF idea. Unity has easier force manipulation than energy manipulation, so I framed my theory using that. Energy is just force with extra steps. (See Edit 1) I’ll talk more about the Allomantic Normal Force and partially-anchored targets after the math in Part V. Part IV: Math Now, I’ll introduce the formula that I used to calculate the Allomantic Force. After that, I’ll describe each of the terms in detail. Allomancy is a lot like magnetism, so let’s start by looking at the formula for the magnetic force between two poles. In Allomancy, the “two poles” would be the Allomancer and target. Magnetic Force = Constant * q1 * q2 / r2 Constant – some constant that depends on the medium between the poles. q1and q2 – the magnitudes of the magnetic charges of the poles. r – the distance between the poles. The greater the charges, the greater the force. The greater the distance between the two poles, the weaker the force – and through the inverse square relationship, greater and greater distances cause much weaker and weaker forces. Now, the Allomantic Force: Allomantic Force = A * S * b * c1 * c2 / r2 (See Edit 2/3) A – some constant. This depends on how all pushes and pulls are described in the book and can be increased/decreased for overall stronger/weaker pushes. b – Burn rate. See below. S – Allomantic Strength. See below. c1 and c2 – the Allomantic Charges of the Allomancer and target. r – the distance between the Allomancer and target. Burn rate – the rate at which an allomancer burns their metals. For my purposes, burn rate is a range between 0 and 1, where 0 is “not burning at all” and 1 is “pushing as hard as you can,” possibly without flaring. I bound this to the triggers on a gamepad and to the scroll wheel on a mouse, which allow me to variably control the strength of a push using the burn rate. Allomantic Strength – the most magic-y of the all the components of the force. Some Allomancers are naturally stronger than others, perhaps by sDNA. Allomancers get better with training and experience. These factors get bundled into the Allomancer’s Allomantic Strength. The Allomantic Force is not proportional to the Allomantic Strength (see [3]). Rather, the Allomancer’s maximum burn rate is proportional to the Allomantic Strength. In this way, Allomantic Strength acts as a sort of limiter. Stronger Allomancers must be able to burn more metal faster for a stronger effect. I won’t incorporate this in-game. Allomantic Charge – Analogous to magnetic charge. Contributes to the Allomantic Force. A property of both metals and Allomancers. I recommend now reading [1], which has a very interesting theory on this. I’m not adhering to it completely, though. An Allomancer or target’s Allomantic Charge is a function of its mass. To make the mass relationships of Mistborn work, we need to satisfy a few factors: The more massive a target is, the stronger a push an Allomancer can get off of it. The less massive a target is, the weaker a push an allomancer can get off of it. “[Wax] shot outwards in a grand arc above the city, flying for a good half a minute on the Push off those enormous girders” (AoL ch 1 pg 34) [3]. “…the lamp was a good anchor - lots of metal, firmly attached to the ground - capable of pushing [Wax] quite high” (AoL ch 1 pg 32) [3]. Both of the targets in these quotes are equally anchored, but the girders are much more massive and provide a stronger push. I don’t have any direct quotes, but we know that Allomancers get less of a push from coins than they do from, say, enormous girders. The “heavier” an Allomancer is, the stronger their push. This argument comes from Feruchemical weight, not mass, but it nonetheless impacts Allomancy in the books, so I should bring it up here. While tapping weight, Wax thought, “with this incredible conflux of weight, his ability to Push grew incredible” (AoL) [2]. I can’t quite remember the context or quote, but I recall that one of Kelsier’s surprises about Vin was her Allomantic Strength/Charge was large “for her size,” implying that smaller/less massive Allomancers usually have less charge. It’s symmetrical with the target’s mass impacting the Allomantic Charge. It’s intuitive and makes sense. There should be some soft maximum cap and minimum cap to the force. If an Allomancer pushes off of an absolutely massive multi-ton solid block of gold, they shouldn’t be pushed into the stratosphere. Likewise, coins are very light relative to lampposts and roofs, but they still provide a reasonably strong push. This leads me to the most disgusting part of the math. What exact relationship do the masses have with the force? The relationship can’t be zero. If this were the case, mass would have no effect on the force, which I argued against. Also, an Allomancer could push on a “metal” with a mass of 0 and still get a push, which doesn’t make sense. The relationship can’t be linear. If this were the case, a target 10 times as massive as another would provide 10 times a push as the other, which doesn’t appear to be the case. If an Allomancer pushes first on a 30g coin and then on a 30kg metal block, the Allomancer would receive 1000 times more the force from the block than the coin. In the books, Allomancers push off of girders and roofs which are much heavier than 30kg, but they certainly don’t describe such a massive difference in forces from coins. That’s duralumin-levels of strength. I’ve tried out a lot of relationships. Logs, sum of logs, product of logs, and roots. Eww. My solution was to take the root of the masses of the Allomancer and target. Specifically, the, ah, sixteenth root. It provided a good combination of strong-enough pushes from light coins and weak-enough pushes from very massive targets that felt most similar to the books. The number 16 was arbitrary. I figured I might as well use Scadrial’s base number for legitimacy. If I used a more elegant root (i.e. the square root), coins provided practically no force, and massive targets still pushed to the stratosphere. Higher roots “level the playing field” more than lower roots. c1 = sixteenth root of (m1) c2 = sixteenth root of (m2) m1 – mass of Allomancer m2– mass of target Because of how roots work, we can also say that c1 * c2 = sixteenth root of (m1 * m2). Regarding the maximum to the force that an Allomancer can get from an extremely massive target: The heavier and heavier the target, the less and less the increase in force. No pushes to the stratosphere. I’m not actually sure if this is the case with roots, but it felt like it was: the lighter and lighter the target, the less and less the decrease in force. Coins are very light, but still provide a significant push. In the end, I’m not actually trying to figure out how mass affects the force in the books. I am fairly confident Brandon didn’t consider the exact relationship while writing the books. I’m just finding ways to emulate it in a physics engine. Part V: Summary & Final points And here’s the final, composed formula for the force an Allomancer experiences while pushing: Force on Allomancer = Allomantic Force + Allomantic Normal Force = Allomantic Constant * Burn rate * sixteenth root of (target mass * Allomancer mass) / squared distance between Allomancer and target (See Edit 2/3) + Allomantic Normal Force Burn rate is between 0 and 1. A Burn rate of 1 gives the maximum Allomantic Force. When target mass is 0 or the Allomancer mass is 0, the Allomantic Force is 0. The closer and closer the target is to the Allomancer, the greater and greater the Allomantic Force. Like other normal forces, if the target isn’t fully anchored (e.g. a coin sliding across the ground, or a thin metal rod that bends as you push on it), the Allomantic Normal Force ranges from 0 to the Allomantic Force, depending on how anchored the target is. This means that an Allomancer pushing on a perfectly anchored target will be pushed back with twice the force as a perfectly unanchored target, assuming they have the same distance. This last bit about the distance is key. If an Allomancer is falling through the air and throws down a coin, the coin quickly falls further and further down. The Allomantic Force quickly becomes very small. Only once the Allomancer falls further and is near the coin – now anchored to the ground – does the distance stay small enough for the Allomantic Force to be large enough for a long enough time to scale a building. Friction (and air resistance) can also be a normal force, in this context; any (normal component of a) force that resists the Allomantic Force can be an ANF. Gravity, too, can be an ANF. An allomancer hovering in the air (whose push cancels out gravity) exerts an ANF equal to gravity back to their target. Theoretically, the Allomantic Normal Force could be greater than the Allomantic Force if the target accelerated in the opposite direction of the push. If you pushed (not pulled) on a target, and the target moved towards you (e.g. a very determined Steel Inquisitor, resisting your push and walking towards you), that normal force would push on you harder. This could result in “pushing matches” between Allomancers who try to move towards each other for even stronger pushes. Allomantic Normal Force works both ways. If the Allomancer is anchored (e.g. braced against a wall), the target will experience an Allomantic Normal Force. Other details: There are two main coins in Mistborn: Imperial boxings (gold) and clips (copper or bronze). In real life gold coins are usually around 30 grams, but I’ve experimented with increasing their mass by about 10-100 times for the game. Currently, I’ve kept them as 30g. When pushed with any reasonable force, 30g coins instantly fly off of the screen like bullets. There’s no user feedback that they pushed on that coin, other than, “that coin no longer appears to exist.” If you drop a coin from the air, it is on the ground by the next frame. Coins are sometimes described as behaving like bullets, but I don’t like how that works in the game. With heavier coins, you can see the coin after you push on it, but it still moves very quickly. Another option (which is the one I’m using in the game) is to simply cap their maximum velocity. I’ve left it at around 120m/s, which feels good. That’s about 1/3 the speed of sound. It causes some problems with calculating the Allomantic Normal Force from the target, but those have been resolved with coding (more or less). The image on the coins in the game is taken from Shire Mint. Fun fact: Unity doesn’t let you modify force vectors individually, which makes this a bit hard. You can only add forces/accelerations/velocity changes one at a time, then they are all applied to the object at the end of the frame. Calculating the Allomantic Normal Force is absolutely disgusting. See my code on GitHub, if you’re curious. I hope you all enjoyed the read! Please discuss this and give your opinions on the physics and maths of Allomancy. Specifically, Are there any more elegant relationships between Allomancer/target mass and Allomantic Force that you think I should try? Does anyone have any esoteric knowledge of Unity’s Rigidbody/Force systems that you think could be helpful? Any general ideas for the game? Any suggestions from what you can see in the videos? Any spelling/formatting issues with the post? Thank you.
  8. I've been thinking about mechanical engineering on Scadrial and was hoping someone could set me straight so that I can daydream accurately: First, and more simply, would it be reasonable to assume that a Lurcher could potentially learn to use an "Iron Bubble" a la Wax's "Steel Bubble", whereby they Pull on all metals around them generically? Second, when Allomancers use Iron and Steel could a sheet of aluminum effectively block other metals from the iron/steel sight by "line of sight" (from the chest, of course ) alone or would the aluminum have to completely encapsulate the other metal to hide it from iron/steel sight? Clarifying questions to second, assuming answer is "line of sight" as I suspect: Would the thickness of the aluminum be a factor in the ability to detect metal on the other side of it?
  9. So this started out as a thought experiment and I wanted to get input on it from the Shard. It is only a matter of time (in my opinion) before we see a coinshot or mistborn running around with a shardblade. If my theory is correct, then scadrian shardblades will be keyed to one of the 16 allomantic metals. What would each metal's blades look like? would they act like the Bands of Mourning and grant the powers of that metal? Or would they do something else? Please give me you input.
  10. I was up late last night and an interesting question popped into my head. I know we probably don't have enough information to actually answer it, but would a Bronze misting on Roshar hear the Rhythms?
  11. Ok so I'm not sure if this was addressed in the books and I'm just dumb, but I have a quick thing to ask about iron and steel allomancy: When Allomancers push or pull metals, do they push/pull toward the center of their body always, or are they able to decide which part of their body the metal is pushing/pulling towards(i.e. like a lurcher can pull a coin to either hand)
  12. If someone was a full Feruchemist and Allomancer and put up either a bendalloy or cadmium bubble and tried to fill a metalmind with speed, what would happen? Would it fill to your own personal time speed, the world around you, or not at all? Hope no one’s asked this yet.
  13. Could a Seeker sense someone who was holding and benefiting from a large number of Breaths, or would the person actually have to be actively Awakening something for that to happen? (My best guess is the latter, but the wiki wasn't particularly clear on it)
  14. What happens when you burn duralumin with higher metals? We know for most of the basic ones but what about some higher metals, Copper, and Bronze? Steel/Iron/Pewter/Tin/Brass/Zinc It's not really super relevant as in Wax and Wayne, there aren't anymore mistborn(unless you count the Bands of Mourning) and in og series only some of the higher metals have been discovered but it would be interesting to see how duralumin would affect: Gold, Electrum, Cadmium and Bendalloy(though why someone would burn this I don't know), Nicrosil and Chromium.
  15. Spoiler Alert for Mistborn and Stormlight We are back after a very very long hiatus! This week we will look at an excerpt from Elsric's Allomantic Thesis Papers where he discusses the powers of Allomancy in depth. Today we look at the external emotional allomancy fueled by Zinc and Brass. These metals have yet to be explored to their fullest potential. Perhaps Brandon has some secrets he is keeping to himself for the moment. Let's speculate the majesty and wonder of emotional manipulation. A shout out to the wonderful artists who keep letting me share their work, you guys are the best! Transcript + Bonus Preface Preface: This excerpt is not a part of Elsric’s original publication. Instead, this was a missive that he sent to the other university professors who questioned his status in Silverlight. I’m sure he meant this to be reassuring but as usual, he couldn’t help running his mouth. It’s a trait we share. (You should listen to our dinner conversations) I have decided to submit this to the compendium rather than the officially published essay on Brass and Zinc which are about the length of a novel all on their own. You should see him running about the campus, it's a wonder he finds time to sleep considering how excited he is. I am afraid that I have cheated my way onto the greater Cosmere. Many members of the World hoppers and the citizens of Silverlight must work long and hard to find themselves able to travel and survive in the spaces between worlds. Finding your way into the Cognitive realms is relatively easy, but surviving in this realm? Now that takes a little bit of luck and a lot of tenacity. However, I have found it easy to adapt and even to thrive in this harsh environment. If I had traveled alone I doubt I would have lasted a month. Cooperation and mutual gain are the means to civilization and long-term survival on the frontier. Dear Kassar is quick to point out that my talents in regards to persuasion and manipulation are more or less cheating considering how easily I make people dance to my whims. Such are the effects of properly wielded emotional alomancy. I remember when I first explained to Kassar the art of Brass and Zinc burning. On Scadrial there are many accounts of the inner workings of emotional alomancy, so I find it likely that you dear reader are already intimately familiar with these arts as a concept. The Allomancer burns their metal and creates a field of influence that can be easily directed at a single person or in a general area. If the Allomancer burns Brass they sooth and smother the emotions they desire. This acts like a suppressive blanket, dousing a runaway fire and bringing the atmosphere into a controlled and contained state. Soothers can act as a means of mob control, but one who is skilled at the art learns to sooth the wild emotions so that more desirable emotions can grow and thus the soother sets the stage for his needs. If Brass is a blanket that controls the spread of wild emotions, then Zinc is the bellows that turns the fire of emotion into a forge. By inflaming the desired emotions, the Rioter takes the raw iron of his will and lets the emotional forge shape his blade. By stoking the hearts of men, they can be uplifted, giving them strength in times of desperation or courage against overwhelming odds. Men become agitated, desiring to move and to act as their passions are fueled into a frenzy. Any Rioter can start a commotion, but a gifted allomancer can shape men into weapons of the finest quality. These arts are subtle and beautiful. They craft an environment in which the desired emotions are carefully cultivated and harvested. But this is just the beginning. I believe that the emotional arts are some of the most powerful investitures in the greater Cosmere. The first and most important lesson you must learn about allomantic emotional manipulations is that it is not mind control. I assume that you already know this, but it needed to be said. Yet after all these years of mastering the emotional manipulations powers of Zinc and Brass, I find the concept of mind control is far inferior to what we can do. We don’t shape thoughts, we condition thoughts. To the common man, these might seem nearly interchangeable. Imagine you are asked to perform a surgery on a wounded soldier. If Emotional manipulation can be likened to a surgeon’s scalpel, then mind control would equate to attempting to perform the same surgery with a longsword. A surgeon only cuts where necessary and he sees his patient as a person who needs a little realigning for them to return to the path they must walk. Those who experience my alomancy retain their free will. Obviously, I could not persuade a man to murder another or harm themselves. Besides the fact that such commands would be so obviously unnatural, people don’t think with emotions. Emotions provide the framework that can facilitate actions but the thoughts must originate in the mind of the person being soothed or rioted. A common example in my experience is when I meet with a fellow merchant for a business negotiation. Such meetings are stymie by mistrust and fear of being taken advantage of. By soothing their fear and rioting their excitement I simultaneously brush aside the validity of paranoid thoughts and encourage the desire to make a profitable deal. These thoughts didn’t come from me they were already in their minds. I assessed the situation and manipulated the emotions that were tied to the thoughts I needed to affect. It’s all about predicting the thoughts and emotions of others. Mind control would be making use of men as if they were tools. This point is moot for nearly all people are free in thought and could never be persuaded to go against their inner nature no matter how skilled the rioter or soother. But there is one exception in which men and beasts may be controlled by emotional alomancy. If there is a form of Mind control it would be achieved through Hemalergic Intrusion. Those who are pierced by more than three hemalergic spikes are subject to the manipulations and control of Harmony. This intrusion ability is an inheritance from the shard of Ruin. The more spikes that puncture the spirit web, the easier it is to override an individual’s free will. In fact, it is possible that allomancers who can push hard enough could control such people. In a way, soothers and rioters can control minds, but only the minds of the damaged and spiked. Yet this might only be the start. Hemalergic Spikes are not the only way to damage and alter an individual’s spirit web, they are just the most direct method that I know of. It has been documented that the mentally unstable are also susceptible to exterior manipulation. Perhaps an allomancer that could burn brass hot enough could assume control of those with weakened spirit webs. Once again this is a branch of study that has limited application and troubling implications. Most forms of investiture are only realized in individuals who develop damaged spirit webs such as the broken natures of the Knights Radiant, and the snapping of ancient scadrians. The abilities of Rioters and Soothers have been well documented and accounted for, but I wish to speak of the heightened potential of the Mistborn. In the world of ash, Mistborn were called upon to act as assassin and spies. They mobility and many layer power sets make them perfect instruments of death, especially when they possessed Atium. The flaw of this system was how overlooked the emotional metals became in the training of Mistborn. Why both to manipulate the emotions of men you were going to assassinate? I can see the reasoning but I also know through experience that Mistborn were often short-changed by this specialized training. The power to sooth unwanted emotions and riot others at the same time can turn the hearts of men into putty to shaped. Often this is achieved by teams of Soothers and Rioters working in tandem. But such teams are hard to coordinate and are sluggish to adapt to change. But one individual, one Mistborn can simply enter a room and sway an audience. It is almost enchanting, watching the eyes of others flit to you in awe. To watch hostel men, slip softly into a jovial conversation. To watch as every whim and will work toward my desires and to temper anger before it can set in the mind. I am a gardener, trimming weeds in the garden of the Cosmere. I will not lie, I really am cheating at this. The 17th Shard constantly reminds me of how much I am meddling with people just by walking by them. I reach out to their minds instinctually, without thought. Yet I cannot feel guilty when I know that even in passing I bring something special into their lives. It is easy to be captivated by the flashy abilities of Coin Shots and Learchers, or the practical abilities of Pewter and Tin. But my heart and my talent will always be held by Zinc and Brass. They have kept me alive and provided for all my needed comforts. Even if I find individuals who protect their emotions with Aluminum lined hats, the instinct to understand the emotions and pressure points of those whom I meet continues to light the path before my feet. So, chastise me as you will, call my success a hoax and rebuke me if you so desire. If we ever meet I am sure you will come around to my way of thinking. In fact, I daresay I can guarantee it.
  16. After re-reading Shadows of Self, I got to the rope hook part of Wax trying to find Bleeder and got to thinking, besides the usual use of compounding to make near unlimited amounts of weight, couldn't an Iron twinborn compounder shoot a bullet and then ironpull at the bullet in flight with their weight as low as possible for super fast travel? I know there's a maximum limit to storing weight, but Wax always implies he can go fully weightless in the books, though it might be a hyperbole.
  17. Are Allomantic metal stores a surface area or volume phenomena? For example, is the available metal store immediately available the same between a sphere of metal and an equal volume of flakes? If its a function of revealed surface area can you create a Mistborn Jawbreaker with alternating layers of the Allomantic metals, that you could incrementally burn through? You could alternate layers of gold and sectors of the other metals to create a safe multi day store of metals since gold is biologically inactive. In the morning, you just take a trip down memory lane and then you're good to go. If the above theory is true, you could also store flaked metal in a gold pill form and you avoid carrying syllable metal on your person further.
  18. As the topic states this thread is for discussing ways to use Allomancy in a new interesting way. (If this has been discussed before please give the the link.) Mine however is about Iron and being a Lurcher. If one had the ability to burn iron and have grapple gun/hooks, one could virtually become a Allomantic Spiderman. The gun of course would be able to wind itself up as the Lurcher pulled on the metal embedded into the structure. Being able to sense the pull is debatable of course. Please join the converation on using metal in creative ways!
  19. Minor spoilers for the Mistborn books past this point. So you know how Steel Inquisitors see the world in blue lines like the ones you see when using Allomantic Steel and Iron? Well, my question is this: Does an Inquisitor have to be burning Steel or Iron in order to see this way, or is this just always "on" as a side-effect of having a Hemalurgic eye-spike that grants Allomantic Steel/Iron? (I actually asked this question in a different thread, before I found the Q&A topic. I sorta got an answer there...? Not really, though. ) I couldn't find any WoBs about this in the Arcanum. If there's nothing in canon that answers this either way, then I may just have a new theory for 17S...
  20. So the obvious answer is the ability to burn specific metals or alloys to gain temporary powers. But I'm asking what IS it? Mistborn can burn metals to gain amazing powers like physical strength, but how? Cause later in the mistborn books we see that on Scadrial the links to the spiritual realm are metals, so much so that Scadrians (which aren't really humans, they were made after the shards were a thing) have tiny metal spikes in their bodies just naturally. Metal in Scadrial works much the same as stormlight works in Roshar (which brings up the question of whether a coinshot in Roshar would still push metal or would change to things infused with storm/voidlight but that's for another time). Anyway does that mean that allomancy is the act of digesting investiture? (It's unclear if it's a purely Preservation based power as burning Lersium grants allomancy or if scadrians' Ruin investment mixed with the burning grants the power). It could work in a way similar to the way Lift can turn food into stomlight (investiture) through the boon granted to her by Culivation. Anyway I'm rambling way too long and I'm sure I've missed some stuff but I wanna hear other people's theories.
  21. Could a single mistborn levitate a metal object by pushing and pulling on it at fhe same time? I tried looking on Arcanum but didnt really see anything that helped me. Currently reading Shadows of Self so i’m probably just rushing ahead of myself.
  22. This forum is mainly a response to the thread entitled "Compounding Mechanics", posted by 18th Shard. Here is the link: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4633-compounding-mechanics/#comment-74496 In that post, 18th Shard theorizes about the mechanics of the magic system and proposes the following possible forms of compounding: Allomancy powering Feruchemy Feruchemy powering Allomancy Allomancy powering Hemalurgy Feruchemy powering Hemalurgy Hemalurgy powering Feruchemy Hemalurgy powering Allomancy This post will cover my personal opinions on the mechanics of these systems as well as the mechanics of the possible compounding types. Feel free to make comments on my theories, propose your own ideas, and mention anything that you believe that I missed. Check out the above link for the mechanics proposed by 18th Shard in his post. First, we have Allomancy powering Feruchemy, or what I call AlloFeru compounding. This type of compounding has been directly proven by the novel, and was used by the Lord Ruler in the first Mistborn novel as well as Miles Hundredlives from the Alloy of Law novel to gain feruchemical power 10x that of the amount stored inside a metalmind by burning it allomantically. I am going over this one because there were debates on how it works. Some people argue that allomancy is merely magnifying the feruchemical effect, but I don't think this is the case. I believe that the feruchemical charge is a filter for the investiture typically gained while burning a metal. So burning a metalmind gives you the same amount of power usually gained from allomantically burning a metal, but in the form of feruchemical power. Also, you only gain the feruchemical effect while burning a metalmind, none of the allomantic effects, so the feruchemical charge in essence creates a new allomantic metal that gives a feruchemical attribute. In a way, the steel without feruchemical charges already has a filter for the investiture, simply by being the right alloy to be an allomantic metal. Let's say, for example, that steel has an innate filter of 0.1 allomantic "charge" (steelpushing) per gram of steel. When burned, investiture is taken from the power of Preservation, and because of the end-positive nature of allomancy, the power is used through the filter, resulting in 10x the power of the filter, in this case 1 allomantic charge per gram. If I were to instead feruchemically invest that piece of steel with 1 feruchemical "charge" (speed) per gram, the steel would adopt the new filter instead, overwriting the original allomantic filter. However, allomancy is still end-positive, so when the steel with the feruchemical filter is burned, the investiture output still results in 10x the power of the filter, or 10 "charges" of speed per gram in this case. I believe the filters and charges for the metals has to do with how the metal views itself in the Cognitive Realm, but that gets into Realmatic Theory, and I am not very experienced in that subject. Next, Feruchemy powering Allomancy, or FeruAllo compounding, seems the most likely other than the already existing AlloFeru compounding. This is the type of compounding that I believe that the Lord Ruler used to drastically increase his Allomantic ability. The original idea proposed for FeruAllo compounding in the post is that you can burn an allomantic metal, then somehow store the allomantic ability in a metalmind instead of using it instantly. This would be beneficial so that the allomantic power could be tapped at much higher rates than possible with normal allomancy for greater power. The difficulty with this theory is that there is no known way to store allomantic power. The first theory presented on the forum argued that because AlloFeru compounding only required that a metalborn be a misting and a ferring in the same metal, the same should be true for FeruAllo compounding. They believed that a metal can store two things: both its feruchemical and allomantic powers. I do not personally support this theory because I feel that AlloFeru compounding works by using both the mechanics of Allomancy and Feruchemy, not by breaking those rules. In Allomancy, one can burn a specific metal and the investiture of Preservation gives them an ability, they are not burning a specific trait or ability, while in Feruchemy they are storing a trait, not a specific metal. So, AlloFeru compounding works because an allomancer can burn the metal independent of what feruchemical traits are attached to that metal, but FeruAllo compounding does not work this way because a feruchemist can only store the specific trait, they cannot store the allomantic abilities that can come from burning that metal. The second theory was that allomantic abilities could be burned and stored by a feruchemist in a nicrosilmind because nicrosil stores investiture. This seemed the most likely to me at first, but when Sanderson released BoM, nicrosil was used in a different way, though I suppose this method could still be possible using a metal with an unknown feruchemical ability (feruchemical lerasium?). The alternate theory that I came up with, which seems the most reasonable to me, has some BoM spoilers so... It is at this point that we get into the more complicated types of compounding, mostly due to the fact that Hemalurgy comes into play. The idea behind Allomancy powering Hemalurgy (AlloHema) is that an allomancer spikes someone to steal a trait from them, then burns that spike, giving the allomancer the stolen trait with increased power. The downside to this is that because the allomancer burns the spike, they gain the trait only as long as they are burning the spike. This theory is somewhat likely, but I believe that there is a slight problem. Similar to when an allomancer burns a metalmind that isn't theirs, the allomancer in this case may be locked out of the power within the spike because it isn't attuned to their spiritweb. The way I see it, there are two different ways to get around this. First, an allomancer could burn a hemalurgic spike that stole an ability from them. The problems with this are that they most likely died from having that part of their spiritweb ripped from the rest of them (though it is possible that they survived), and their spiritweb may not actually be attuned to the ability because that part of their spiritweb was stolen from them. This would also not be very beneficial to them. By burning that spike, they would get increased power for a short time, but as soon as the metal of the spike was gone, they would have lost that ability forever. The other way I see to bypass this is for an allomancer to steal the trait from another person, then spike themself so that the power in the spike is part of their spiritweb. Sanderson has mentioned before that inquisitors could have theoretically burned their eye spikes, but it would have been extremely painful and would have knocked them unconscious. It would most likely be painful because the inquisitor would be burning away part of their spiritweb, ripping it away from them, similar to the way that traits are stolen during Hemalurgy. However, if one could somehow find a way to get rid of or tolerate the pain, they would be able to access the trait given to them by the spike with increased power, even though it would only last as long as they burned the spike. However, it may be impossible to get over the pain, making this form of compounding basically useless. One interesting interaction I thought about was using this form of compounding with, for example, a steel spike granting allomantic steel. By burning the spike, you increase the allomantic power of your steel, which increases the power with which you burn the steel spike, increasing the power again, repeating over and over again almost instantly giving the user infinitely powerful steel allomancy. If this is possible, it would only be possible with metals that could grant their own allomantic ability, such as steel, bronze, aluminum (inert), atium, and one other unknown allomantic temporal metal (not gold- most likely cadmium). The possibilities with these metals (except aluminum) are all interesting; let me know what you think. Next is Feruchemy powering Hemalurgy (FeruHema), where you steal a hemalurgic attribute, then store the attribute in a metalmind to be able to tap at larger rates for greater power. There is a similar problem with this method of compounding as there was with the previous method, namely that the spike's power is not attuned to the compounder. So, similarly, the spike would have to be a trait that was stolen from you, or you would have to spike yourself with the stolen trait. The main debate for this type of compounding is whether feruchemical and hemalurgic charges can interact with each other. If they do, then a feruchemist should be able to directly tap the spike for the stolen trait. My main problem with this theory is that there is no limit to how much hemalurgic charge one can tap from the spike, and though it would probably be related to how powerful the victim was in the stolen trait, it doesn't seem likely that the charges would interact in this way because they are separate systems. My personal theory has spoilers again... Compounding types powered by Hemalurgy, HemaAllo and HemaFeru compounding, are... well... I think they are simpler than they appear. Actually, I believe that they have been used in the series already. The methods for these types of compounding as they were presented in the other post, I believe, are incorrect. Now, this is just a theory, so don't get upset, but compounding is the method of using one of the metallic arts to boost another, and the ideas for those two types of compounding in the post are only used to share investitures with others. For HemaFeru compounding, I believe that feruchemically storing an attribute into a spike would provide a filter, similar to how the feruchemical charge in AlloFeru compounding provided a filter for the power supplied through Allomancy. However, in this case the filter restricts what can be stored and gained during the hemalurgic process. So if I stored feruchemical speed in a spike, I would only be able to steal not only just feruchemical steel, but only my feruchemical steel because the feruchemical charge is attuned to my spiritweb. And, unless I stole my own feruchemical speed through Hemalurgy, I would not be able to steal an attribute from another person because of the filter. Either this is the case, or feruchemical and hemalurgic charges have no interaction with each other, in which case the spike would simply act as it normally would, stealing an attribute, not granting the other person feruchemical charges. For HemaAllo compounding, there is simply no way to store allomantic power in the spike. However, if there was a way, I believe that it would act in a similar way, creating a filter as the feruchemical charge did and having the same result. My theory is that these types of compounding are where you already have an investiture, for example allomantic bronze, and you spike someone and steal their allomantic bronze in order to boost your own allomantic bronze. Sound familiar? If this is the correct way to compound, then Vin was a compounder the entire time. The same goes with HemaFeru compounding, boosting feruchemical power by stealing the same attribute from another person. Its boring, I know, but I believe that it makes the most sense. I wanted to add a little note at the bottom here to suggest the idea that multiple forms of compounding could be used in conjunction with one another, for example AlloFeruAllo compounding, where one stores allomantic investiture, then burns the metalmind for even greater power (or AlloFeruAlloFeruAllo... compounding). There are other combinations that include hemalurgic compounding as well, but I will let you guys look into those on your own. I realize that some of the methods of compounding in this chapter did not follow the compounding rules presented on the forum, but I do not feel that renders these forms of compounding particularly impossible or unlikely. If you feel I have broken fundamental rule of a metallic art, let me know. Edit: If you stored Allomantic Nicrosil investiture in a nicrosilmind and compounded it, it may result in unlimited nicrosil power, and one could compound other nicrosilminds of other investitures to have unlimited power in those Investitures.
  23. If a misting or a mistborn traveled to Sel, and then to the city of Elantris, and then had an Elantrin carve an Aon on a piece of metal that the Allomancy then burned, how would that effect the powers of the Allomancer? Any thought? Would an Aon Rao increase the power of a steel push or a bendalloy bubble?
  24. So I was wondering I were a Mistborn and there was a long iron girder in front of me when I burn steel would I see a single Allomantic line leading to this beam or would there be lines along its length. Would I be able to push the beam at a single end or would I only be able to push on its centre of mass? Random question but I just wondered