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Found 113 results

  1. Okay, first off, this thread will make a lot more sense if you read my theory that it's based off. However, I will provide a basic explanation here. My theory is that Hoid was the mastermind behind the Shattering. We also know that he was offered a Shard, and refused it. Now, here's the question. If he decided to shatter Adonalsium but refused a Shard, there are only a few possibilities as to his motives. This would say that it wasn't for power unless he had a change of heart between the Shattering and the time he was offered a Shard. So, what was his motive? Could Adonalsium have seemed threatening to him in a way we don't understand? What do you guys think?
  2. Hi, i'm new here but I have a crazy theory so I made an account so that I could share it. I have talked over this theory with some friends that are big fans of The Cosmere and we believe that it is possible. I have seen the theory that Hoid will become the new Adonalsium a couple times, but I believe that he already is/was. The theory in its simplest form is that Hoid is/was Adonalsium. First off, we know that Hoid was present at the shattering of Adonalsium, but nothing I have seen states in what form or fashion. We also know that all the shards have vessels, those that hold them. It stands to reason that Adonalsium also had a vessel that held all his power. It would also explain why Hoid is world-hopping around collecting magic systems, he's trying to put himself back together. I know that supposedly Adonalsium was killed when he shattered, but what if Adonalsium is the name of the power and not the name of the vessel. The death of Adonalsium could be referring to the death of the power when it shattered, but not the death of the vessel that held it. In conclusion, Hoid is what was leftover at the shattering of Adonalsium; he is now searching out the shards and learning all he can about them in the hopes of stitching himself back together. What do you think of my theory? I don't know the most about The Cosmere so there could be things that i'm not aware of that disprove my theory. If any of you have any evidence for or against this i would love to see it. Thanks for reading my theory, ~TheVillageIdiot
  3. About half a year ago, I posted up a thread in Cosmere Theories called Narrowing Down the Last Shards (below) in which we as a forum posited many excellent ideas. It's long but worth the read as much of what I say in this post I derived from there. I have since changed my opinion with some ideas I'm sure you all will appreciate and tear up as you please. Having said that, in this thread I will go a step further. Not only will we try to discern the remaining six Shards, but we will ask what we can do with that information, and theorize what kind of magic, worlds, and people those Shards may have created. Thus, I present to you The Rest of the Shards and Where to Find Them. So as before, here are some things we think we know, and some suppositions, before I get to the List: Shards are all godly attributes, possibly based on the Judeo/Christian god, Adonai (for which Adonalsium was named). Shards do not have perfect pairs or opposites Shards may also be considered to have many opposites There is a Shard (besides Ambition) that has not Invested in a planet. Aforementioned Shard wants to hide and survive because it is a wise decision. Survival is not the capitalized intent, and is only tangentially related to the capitalized Intent. Shards' Intents, by the definition of the word, are active. They have a goal. Odium is the most dangerous of the Shards. Ambition was #1 on Odium's hit list, which means that there are no other Shards which he would find more dangerous than Ambition. Hoid and Frost know what they're talking about. I know I missed a few things that I wanted to say. Feel free (as before) to correct me, or add to the things we know. Most of that is from WoB, and some supposition, and was derived from previous responses. Part 1: The Rest of the Shards: Disclaimer #1: Not all of the ideas for Shard names were mine, and I am not claiming that they are original. I appreciate all the thought you wonderful people have put into this, and thank you for broadening my mind on this subject. I will ping some of the contributors of the original thread in the references in Part 3. Disclaimer #2: As I mentioned above, Adonalsium is likely based off of the Judeo/Christian God. I am a believer, and some of the Intents are based on my views of God. They may not match your own, and that's okay. Please do not take my posited Intents or arguments thereof as me trying to convert you. The Intents are speculation based on my beliefs, Brandon's beliefs, and are just as valid in this discussion as your own. I hope that we can discuss this subjectively. Disclaimer #3: This will be a lengthy post, and I don't think I will hide anything in spoilers to shorten it. If it looks too long too read, fret not. I won't be insulted if you just want to skim through the list at first, and simply read the parts that interest you. If you do wish to respond to something, however, please take the time to read my opinion on it, otherwise, I may just quote stuff I already said back at you. I don't mean to be insulting if I do so, so don't take it as snark. Disclaimer #4: I recognize the possibility that Brandon may not have finalized all of the Shards Intents as of yet, which would render all of this rather useless. But of course, this is the Shard where we can discuss any theories no matter how baseless they are! Brandon, if you're reading this and I'm right about everything, I promise I didn't break into your personal wiki, and if I correctly guess future magic systems or worlds, I promise not to say that they're my ideas. I'll just be glad that I called it. As before, Shards we know are in Green, and Shards we don't know are in Red. This does not mean that they are in the correct groupings, however. This is all speculation. The four quadrants that I believe make up the being Adonalsium are as follows: Creation, Personality/Authority, Action, and Divinity. I believe we can put all sixteen Shards into groups of four, as opposed to pairs as I originally thought. Group 1: Creation Many have spoken (in-universe and out) that Preservation and Ruin are the forces of creation. This is not wrong, but I don't think that's the be-all and end-all of the Creation force that is Adonalsium. Some of these Intents refer not only to the physical creation of nature, but actions and mindsets about people. (Cultivation or Sanctification of followers for example) Cultivation: Growth, Creation, Sanctification Cultivation embodies positive change with the intent of creating something better. It can destroy things if necessary in order to make something better out of it, or in its place. Preservation: Guarding, Stasis, Immutability Preservation cannot create anything new on its own; it can only act to preserve what is already in place. Preservation also points to the god attribute of immutability, the unchanging nature of God. Ruin: Destruction, Decay, Entropy Ruin's end goal is to break everything down to its most basic parts. Historically, Ruin was able to help create things, only if it let him destroy more things afterward. Brandon has remarked that this would make Ruin compatible with Cultivation, which supports this theory. Chaos: Neutrality, Quiescence, Abeyance, "Letting the chips fall where they may" As I mentioned in the "Things we think we know" section, Shards need to have an active goal in order to fulfill the logical requirements of the word "Intent". For this reason, I am not totally sold on any of the above-selected words, but more the overarching goal of them collectively. The obvious hole in the quadrant is the art of negative neutrality, in the same way as Preservation is a positive neutrality. However, as Intent denotes activity, it cannot truly be neutral. Thus, I settled on the word "Chaos". Group 2: Personality/Authority Adonalsium was seen as God in the cosmere (source: Hoid & Frost). We need the personality of God (based on the Judeo/Christian God as above) as well as his right to rule if we want to fulfill all of the necessary components that make up who they are. Dominion: Controlling, Ruling, Conquering This is the type of power Adonalsium would have by divine right, similar to a king or a god. Charisma: Leadership, Magnetism This is the type of power that would make Adonalsium worthy of being served. What good is the authority of a god if they are not worthy? It is a hole that needs filling, and it contrasts the other names in this quadrant. I know many people aren't sold on the name; neither am I. But it is the best word I've found to communicate the broadness of the overarching Intent of the hole in this quadrant. Devotion: Servitude, Care, Love, Mercy I feel the need to point out that Devotion is a fairly broad definition, which includes many other Intents many people have posited for names of Shards (including Love). Brandon himself called it Love before he changed it to Devotion. This is the reason why I do not have "Love" in any of the quadrants, as it is included in Devotion. I used to have this Shard paired with Odium as I had asked Brandon if they were opposites. His reply was that they "could be considered as such", however, Odium does not fit with this quadrant, so I abandoned that line of thought. I may have just left too much wiggle room in what we consider as opposites, as people have pointed out before. Autonomy: Independence, Freedom This Shard point's to the godly attribute of independence, god's self-sufficiency in that they do not require anything. Autonomy is a weird Shard with a highly...debatable Intent, which has led to some confusion in the past on how we can define a Shard's Intent. The consensus is that the Vessel is able to act on their interpretation of the Intent, and that the Intent may change slightly as a result, depending on the Vessel. This may be what Brandon meant when he said that Adonalsium could have been split in different ways. Group 3: Action Going again back to the nature of Shardic Intent, Adonalsium is a god of action. He was a creation-force that had a goal in mind, and this should be true for the Shards as well. The four below Intents cover most, if not all, of the main actions the Judeo/Christian god. Endowment: Giving, Mercy With love and care, god would be one who gives to his followers in order that they use their gifts for his glory (see: Spiritual gifts). Separated from the context of other Shards and their respective Intents, Endowment becomes what we see in Warbreaker. In conjunction with the other Shards in this grouping and the others, I believe that Endowment includes mercy and forgiveness, though there is an argument that they may be a Shard on their own. Retribution: Punishment, Justice, Vengeance A favourite of many on this thread, and one I used to oppose, I have come to see that this Shard would contrast Endowment (including mercy), and Honor, rather than being part of Honor (though that argument is still intact), Retribution is an action the Judeo/Christian god does quite a lot of, separated by his promises (Honor). Ambition: Taking, Improving, Acting If there is a Shard that is tenuously...off...in this grouping, Ambition would be the one (In which case I would replace it with Mercy). The only reason I say that is because Ambition (though involving action) is more of a mindset, like Odium (which would put it in the "Divinity" section below). However, it does make a good contrast with Endowment as well, and somewhat fills in the hole of a god demanding something from his followers. This works if we say Ambition involves sanctification of followers more than an improvement on God's behalf (which wouldn't be a godly attribute). Honor: Promising, Covenant We see both Honor and the Judeo/Christian god bind themselves to their promises, as well as expect it of their subjects. Group 4: Divinity The final grouping is the overarching theme of what makes god or Adonalsium divine (see: Hoid & Frost). It is, in fact, the most undisputed necessity of godhood. I will explain my choices below. Bear in mind that this is the one with the most unknowns, as there are still three Shards unaccounted for in my pattern. Therefore, this includes my suppositions on there needing to be a Shard of Wisdom/Enlightenment, and a Shard including Mystery, which are both heavily needed in a god figure like the Judeo/Christian god. Enlightenment: Wisdom, Knowledge, Omnipotence, Ingenuity Though all Shards have some measure of Omnipotence, we would be amiss to not include a Shard of Wisdom. It is my belief that this Shard is the Survival Shard that wants to hide, not Investing in a planet for fear of Odium, acknowledging that it is the wisest action for self-preservation. I included the possibility above of Ingenuity, as Brandon may have slipped and confirmed it accidentally, though that is a measure of semantics and debatable. Odium: "Divine Hatred", Wrath, Envy And we come to the villain of the Cosmere... I put Odium in this grouping because of Hoid's words: "He bears God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues which gave it context". Notice his use of the word "divine". In this grouping, if he was still part of Adonalsium, Divine Hatred is undoubtedly a big part of God's divinity and holiness. Enigma: Mystery, Paradox As I mentioned above, Mystery is a big part of what separates God from mortals. I chose Enigma because it sounds cooler it's more encompassing than Mystery. It definitely plays a role in Divinity and makes a good pairing with Enlightenment. I say "Paradox" because I know people will bring it up based on the obscure "Alcatraz Shard WoB" and it somewhat fits. Purity: Holiness, Chastity Admittedly, this is the Shard I am less sure on. I include it because Holiness is perhaps the largest part of divinity, and it gives Odium the context Hoid talks about. Also, there is a mysterious planet called Purity in the Threnodite system that doesn't follow the pattern of funeral songs. As I mentioned in the write-up for Ambition, it's possible that it belongs in this slot in Divinity, leaving Mercy in its place in Action. However, doing so would leave Odium without those virtues to give it context in the subject of Divinity, and would leave both groupings somewhat unbalanced. Edit 1: Added Part 2 in spoiler below (hopefully):
  4. I received my copy of Firefight this morning, signed and Brandonised as per usual My request was "to tell me something about the Cosmere that has not been previously mentioned" and this is what I received: Signing reads "To Adam, Long ago there was a plot to destroy Adonalsium. It failed." So, what does this mean for the Cosmere as a whole? Was Adonalsium split due to another plot to destroy it, or, did it possibly split under his/her/its/their own free will? What position does this put the original Shardholders such as Bavadin, Rayse etc - were their conspirators in a plot? Or was their taking on of shards a way to preserve the power of Adonalsium, albeit in a lesser form? If this is the case, how did they become the Shardholders of their specific shards? Was it all by choice, as we know Rayse's was, or by random fate? What is Hoid's ultimate role in the Plot? Opinions, as always, are greatly appreciated! Happy reading all! Adam
  5. There's plenty of evidence that Adonalsium was a person, who is now dead. If that's true, he was probably the most invested person ever to have existed. And if that's the case, shouldn't he have left an extremely long-lasting cognitive shadow? Shouldn't the ghost of Adonalsium be haunting the cognitive realm to this very day? (presumably trapped on Yolen, the way Leras was on Scadrial.) This seems like an obvious question, but I can't find any WoB on this topic. So I'm posing the question to all of you on the Shard who have been in the fandom longer than I have. Has anyone ever asked Brandon this? Does Adonalsium have a cognitive shadow? I know this would probably get RAFOed, but I'd like to know if the question has been asked.
  6. So finally got my copy of Calamity through the post, Brandalised of course. Now, the Weapon and the Shattering is a particular topic of interest of mine - My copy of Firefight confirmed that there was a failed plot to kill Adonalsium, and my copy of BoM confirmed that Adonalsium shattered because he was killed, thereby confirming that Adonalsium was a being that identifed as male. My reuest for Brandon this time around was "for information on the current status of the weapon that was used to kill Adonalsium, including the current possessor" - as far as I am aware, nobody knows where the current location or the owner of the Weapon is. That is because the Weapon no longer truly exists. The response I received was as follows: "The weapon was expended, and no longer exists in its original form" Discuss, my fellow Sharders!
  7. I was browsing through forum discussions on here and I found this quote in a topic about the Nightwatcher: What stood out to me more about this quote though was the bit about Adonalsium at the end. Maybe I've just missed this or something, but I personally believed Adonalsium to be the original Power of Creation that was held by a person similar to how people hold the Shards. I believe Brandon referred to Adonalsium as a "he" at one point, which may not necessarily have been a reveal of any sort. However, there was also this quote from Khriss in Secret History: So it's seems Khriss also believed Adonalsium to be a being holding the power. However, the bit at the end of the WOB seems to be Brandon slipping out that Adonalsium was the original, whole Power of Creation that had become sentient, similar to a Splinter, which is a known property of Investiture when not held by a being for a time. This idea seems very cool to me, as when Brandon writes the Dragonsteel books and we learn more about Adonalsium, it would be very interesting to see what kind of mind a pure force/energy like that would have, especially when not influenced by the intents of the sixteen Shards. I would expect it to really be a God figure in temperament, because Brandon has said that the intents of the Shards were loosely inspired by attributes of deity. The fact that Adonalsium would be a sentient being of pure energy from the Cosmere rather than a human or other mortal being given that power could also lend Adonalsium credibility as a true God figure in the eyes of some. And from what we've seen of The Liar of Partinel potentially implying that Adonalsium was destroying Yolen through the fain life, it would be interesting to see what potentially went wrong in its mind, since it could be some effect of the Investiture. This could also be the reason the sixteen Shattered Adonalsium, because its Investure mind went wrong somehow and they believed that humans/other species needed to hold the power to prevent this. I think it could ultimately go either way (Adonalsium being a being or sentient Investiture) but if Adonalsium really was pure sentient Investiture, I'd be very excited to read more about that. Let me know if this was already commonly accepted information though.
  8. Hey Sharders! Long time lurker, but first time poster! Hopefully im not regurgitating a theory posted elsewhere, and apologies if this theory expands a bit beyond the confines of roshar, it's about an entity on roshar but by necessity has to expand a bit further! Let me know if i should move this to cosmere theories! but i have some ideas about the origin of the Nightwatcher. It starts with our current understanding of the nature of spren capable of nahel bonds. From what I understand, these spren are small pieces of honor, and cultivation to varying degrees depending on the variety. And have been referred to as splinters of honor or cultivation. These splinters are bits of investiture left without will or a host long enough that it gains sentience. (There has been confirmation in a WoB that spren are splinters similar to the way seons are on sel) I've come accross a number of theories proposing that the nightwatcher is of cultivation, possibly a kind of cognitive shadow similar to the stormfather. This doesnt hold up in my opinion, there is a WoB that i dont know how to link which tells us that cultivations holder is still alive, and from what we know of the old magic, it doesnt seem to fit into the types of investiture made possible by honor and cultivation. (nor the possible iterations of voidbinding that we'll see more of soon) I propose that the nightwatcher is actually a splinter of adonalsium from pre-shattering. There were already other spren on Roshar before any of the shards came there. I think it's possible that this is a magic system that predates all other kinds on roshar, and was put into place before any shards were taken up. The concept of a boon and a curse doesnt feel at all like the symbiosis present in all of the magic from honor, cultivation, or even odium. Thoughts?
  9. Welcome to the second Episode of "Letters from the Cosmere!" Today we talk about the origins of the current Cosmere system and the implications of the Shattering of Adonalsium. You may notice a few changes to the series, most noticeably the name change. Yes, I have read White Sand (now) and yes the name correlation was literally happenstance. However, despite this I do not want to cause confusion about who is who in the Cosmere so I made the change to my character. It is slight, but it made the most sense. I look forward to hearing your thoughts about this episode. Hope you enjoy! I will put the transcript in text below: Adonalsium. Such a strange word. I remember when I first found it as I studied the Words of Founding. In that moment, I thought little of it. Of all the incredible revelations that came in the wake of the Destruction of “The World of Ash” I was distracted. Now all these years later, I discovered that it was all connected. If you, dear reader, think for a second that I have been fooled into quiet worship and submission you are woefully mistaken. If there ever was a God, he is long since dead. There are merely scraps to pull this knowledge from. Yet just as scraps of a tapestry can yield a pattern, the grand machine that is the Cosmere is starting to become apparent. No one seems to know what Adonalsium was, except that it was incredibly powerful. It stood above all, and held the creative and destructive powers of the Universe. I say it because there is no indication if this entity had an intelligence like a sentient man. The Scholar seems to think so, but she thinks a great many things that seem to convoluted, and they cannot all be true. She seems content to sit back and learn, content to watch worlds crumble and die rather than using the knowledge she has. However, I am indebted to her, for each of the two times I have crossed paths with her she seemed pleased to answer my questions. Unlike you. However, The Scholar was not who first told me of the Shattering, but The Wanderer. I met him just before I was called back to start these letters. I never learned his name but like me, he seemed to Wander from place to place. Something about him was off, and he seemed so focused on striding deeper into Roshar I almost escaped his notice. Yet when he did notice me he seemed adamant that I listen to his story. I mostly had no idea what he was talking about until he brought up the death of Scadrial. He spoke of the powers Preservation and Ruin, and called them by names I had never heard. Then he told me quite frankly about how these powers, these so-called Gods, were once men. Men who had risen up against Adonalsium. They rebelled against It, and shattered it into 16 primal powers. Wanderer didn’t say much more than this, except to tell me that these people slowly were changed by this power. He spoke of Ati, who had once been a good man, who later manifested as Ruin and sought to destroy all life in the Universe by braking it. His parting words were the only words he seemed to take seriously. He told me that history would be repeating itself before long, and that I would have to make a choice. Almost as if his words heralded some great tragedy, I could feel something change. Odium had come. At the time I didn’t know Odium or what he brought with his influence. But for the first time I wondered if watching would be enough. It wasn’t. As you know, I would eventually dedicate my very existence to fighting for the lives left behind on Roshar. The Desolation that Odium began and the destruction caused by his Everstorm left hundreds of thousands cowering in the dark. I left my life of grieving solitude, and took upon myself a mantle of leadership. Wanderer was also there; I assume fighting in his own way. And all this time, I was thinking about the 16 who took upon themselves such great power. Apparently they dispersed, moving through the cosmere and building up peoples and cultures across the stars. The worlds I have touched have been both crafted and scared by their fumbling hands, hands of men ascended. They created many great and incredible peoples, and gifted unto them the investitures that allow men to touch the divine. But at what cost? For it seems they see fit to destroy what they create. That their Shards have twisted them into intelligent agents of the Shard’s will and Purpose. I do not understand it, but the nature of each Shard eventually bleeds through these ascended men and overcomes their personalities, twisting them into dangerous servants bound by their instincts. And now we suffer the consequences of their lack of restraint. Who were these people? What right did they have to become Gods in the place of the Thing they had killed? Apparently this Odium has murdered several of his fellow Shards, dispersing their power so as to continue his rise to domination. All along this path of Power and Control, Millions have died. To these ascended beings, our lives must seem as the ants of the dirt. When I see the destruction that Ruin and Odium have been allowed to cause, I am resolved by one simple truth. These flawed Gods should never have been. Tell our Friend that I intend to fight until the lives of men can continue under their own wills. Tell Him that this war is far from over, and that I will struggle against Odium and all other Shards who fall. I do not feel that I can do much else than be a knife in the dark. I will gather the precious few I can save and set them up as a banner, to fight back however we can. I am unsure how to fight a God, but that won’t stop me from trying. Be wary of this Wanderer, a man who is far more removed from time than I am. He moves with a purpose that I cannot comprehend. I am grateful to him and see him as a mentor of sorts. Yet I cannot help but be cautious of his intent. Even now I wonder if he hinted to me of The Shattering simply to recruit me for his side. Because of my choice I am actively being pursued by the members of the 17th Shard. I do not know what will happen if they catch me, but as of yet I have not let them get too close. However, as I cast my thoughts back to the Shattering, back where this all began, there is one thought that chills me to my very core. These 16 usurpers struck down a God. Something with, for all intents and purposes, unlimited power. Yet these men shattered Adonalsium. What could mere men wield that could kill a God? And worse, where is this weapon that can lay waste to the powers of Creation? This weapon could be more threatening than even Odium, for he is only a part of what the Weapon destroyed. Odium is the most prevalent of threats, but I fear more for the resurgence of this fiendish secret. For if the Weapon can destroy a God, what unspeakable things could it do to the peoples of the Cosmere? {Sigh] This fight, what it represents… it has taken a toll on me. Perhaps I can learn to trust, to believe that such power can be wielded for the good. Preservation did try to lock away Ruin, and even restored hope to a failing Emperor. And Honor left some of his will behind, granting visions and Nahel bonds to his people. I am uncertain if what they offered us will be enough to stop the destructive Shards, but perhaps what they did will give us a chance. Regardless I have a work to do, for I am determined to keep my people alive if at all possible. Until the next time, Elsric
  10. So this isn't technically a full theory because of lack of evidence, mostly seeing what people think. Fist we have to ask the question, "was Adonalsium always Adonalsium, or did he pick it up." Seriously we need someone to ask that question, and unless Brandon Sanderson decides to visit Turkey, there is little chance of me being able to ask him. Moving on, I had an idea that Sazed would end up being the complete Adonalsium. It just makes sense to me. Unfortunately, because it makes so much sense, Brandon Sanderson will probably not do that. The reason it makes sense to me, is that Harmony is currently getting attacked by another shard, and, if he wins, he would probably take on that shard too. (Although, if he is being attacked by Odium, he would probably need to take a more positive shard too, because Odium and Ruin would probably outweigh Preservation.) Anyway, I think that there will probably end up being another Adonalsium, the question is, will it be Sazed. (If you don't think a new Adonalsium makes sense, please tell me in the comments. I have no problem with my theory being disproved.)
  11. I have a theory that, before it was Nightblood, the sword now called Nightblood killed Adonalsium. Nightblood is the only thing in the Cosmere that is truly end-negative (it removes Investiture from the Cosmere) so before that, it may have been really powerful.
  12. think I know who knows, or rather, knew, where the remains of the weapon is: Preservation! in secret history, Preservation says "I needed a sign. Something he couldn't change. A sign of the weapon I'd buried. The boiling point of water, I think. Maybe it's freezing point? But what if the units change over the years? I needed something that would be remembered always. Something they'll immediately recognize. Sixteen." a sign of the weapon, and sixteen, being one of those signs, and how many Shards it split Adonalsium into, is too much of a coincidence. Also, Ruin and Preservation created Scadrial, so they could design aspects of it in special ways. If he had buried it at the core of the planet, no one would be able to get to it, not on the Physical Realm, not without Either Ruin or Preservation noticing, and they wouldn't be able to get to it in the Cognitive Realm, as the investiture in metal makes it so that Shards cannot touch or influence it and probably are unable to get past it, so Shards would not be able to get to the core of the planet, because the inner and outer cores would be made out of metal. In addition, Ruin and Preservation are so heavily invested in the planet that they can't leave, so that would make them Guards that can't leave their posts. The only thing I can't figure out is what the boiling/freezing point of water has to do with the weapon of opposition of Adonalsium. What do you guys think?
  13. I recently posted that the Dor is Adonalsium’s Investiture, changed by Dominion and Devotion only as necessary to create Sel’s magic systems. Responders cited the prepublication AU Selish essay in rebuttal. Khriss states that Devotion and Dominion’s Investiture alone constitutes the Dor. Here’s my question for this thread: If Khriss is right, and Shardworld Investiture comes solely from the Shards, then where is Adonalsium’s Investiture? He created the Cosmere – where did his Investiture go? Contrary to Khriss, I believe MOST Investiture in the Cosmere comes from Adonalsium. Except for Scadrial, a Shard-created planet, Shards piggy-backed on Adonalsium’s Investiture to make their magic systems. I’m working through a major unpublished theory, and this is a key component. In view of AU, I thought I’d throw this discussion open for advice and input. Where do YOU think Adonalsium’s Investiture went? Here are my thoughts: 1. Brandon says the Cosmere is identical to our universe’s physics, except for its magical component. He says that magic is PART of the Cosmere’s “physics.” 2. Brandon says that Adonalsium left “Ambient Magic” on Shardworlds – magic that is part of the “natural ecosystem” but that mortals cannot command. To me, “natural” means that Adonalsium created the ecosystem including its magic. By definition, anything Adonalsium created is “natural,” since nothing existed before he created it. 3. There are two known examples of Ambient Magic: First of the Sun and pre-human Roshar. First of the Sun’s magic stems from the Patje Shardpool, which Invests worms eaten by the Aviar that give the Aviar their magical abilities. The Aviar bond to specific mortals, like Sixth of the Dusk, and grant those mortals certain cognitive abilities. These mortals cannot command the magic to do anything. 4. Pre-human Roshar life was dominated by animals (and plants?) engaged in various symbiotic relationships with spren. Brandon describes how “natural” it is for spren to bond with listeners, and we see spren supporting greatshells, skyeels and other fauna. Listeners transform during highstorms, the bringers of Stormlight, and WoR suggests greatshells do as well. 5. Highstorms were originally “meteorological events” and were “later Invested.” I interpret this “later Investment” as coming from the Shards. I believe highstorms always produced Stormlight, since that was “natural” to Roshar. Without Stormlight, spren symbiosis would likely have been impossible. The listeners’ “Rider of Storms” predates human migration to Roshar. 6. If Stormlight is a natural part of Roshar’s ecology – part of Roshar’s Ambient Magic – then Stormlight must be Adonalsium Investiture. Otherwise, we’d have to conclude that the Shards created Roshar’s spren-based Ambient Magic. With all the Adonalsium spren on Roshar, that seems unlikely. [My unpublished theory concludes that Honor and Cultivation’s Investment created Radiantspren and made spren bondable to humans and stand-alone gemstones (that is, gemstones not part of “living” gemhearts). Spren in their “natural” state could only bond with native lifeforms. Shard Investment thus created the Surgebinding and fabrial magic systems.] 7. If Stormlight is Adonalsium Investiture and fuels Roshar’s Ambient Magic, why don’t we see similar things on other Shardworlds? I think we do; hence, my “The Dor is Adonalsium’s Investiture” post. I suggest the Shards picked the planets they did to Invest because Adonalsium had left more Investiture on those planets than others. That made it easier for the Shards to create their magic systems. [I’m leaving Scadrial out of this discussion, since it is a Shard-created planet. I do address it in my theory.] 8. Khriss is an arcanist, a “magical scientist.” Scientists make mistakes. I think Khriss over-values the role of the Shards and undervalues Adonalsium’s role in creating Cosmere magic. Brandon hints this may be so: “I’ve begun to wonder if something greater is happening on Sel than we…have guessed. Something with origins lost in time.” (AU Kindle, p. 17.) 9. Khriss also doesn’t know how the Patje Shardpool came to be on First of the Sun. To me, this in particular highlights her blind spot about Adonalsium’s Investiture. If you agree with Khriss, please answer this thread’s question: where is Adonalsium’s Investiture? We know for sure it’s on Roshar…where did the rest of it go? Possible counterarguments: A. “Adonalsium’s Investiture is still in the Spiritual Realm and is now controlled by the Shards.” That’s true, but it doesn’t fully answer the question. My question is what happened to Investiture Adonalsium ALREADY INVESTED on Shardworlds before he Shattered. Investiture exists in all three Realms, just like everything else. Stormlight, for example, exists in the Physical Realm in gaseous form; exists in the Cognitive Realm as collectively perceived by Roshar’s inhabitants; and exists in Roshar’s Spiritual DNA, part of the planet’s SpiritWeb. It is the Ambient Magic Adonalsium built in to the planet, the Investiture he already Invested in that planet. B. “Adonalsium’s Investiture was left in small amounts on many, many planets. He didn’t Invest any one or more planets with enough magic to create a magic system.” This argument has merit, except for the contrary example of Roshar. Adonalsium Invested A LOT of Stormlight, enough to sustain the entire planet’s flourishing ecosystem. If it happened once, it happened more than once. C. A corollary to this argument is that Adonalsium mostly Invested in the Cosmere’s matter and energy. He Invested little or nothing in Investiture, as Khriss’ “Drominad System” essay suggests. Again I pose Roshar as contrary evidence. What do you think? Where is Adonalsium’s Investiture?
  14. Funny how Brandon seems to be coming out with multiple books set in alternate earths. Funny how the inherit magic systems seem to be both evil, and soft magic. Funny how he claims that both are non-cosmere. This seems like an awfully large COINCIDENCE and you know what they say about COINCIDENCES? "It takes an awful lot of work to make a coincidence" - Winston Churchill (probably) Perhaps this has some connection to this mysterious "Adolnasium Opposing Force"? Anybody think I'm on to something; or that this theory is the work of 999 monkeys in a room with a typewriter?
  15. Okay, I don't know if anything like this has been mentioned before so, sorry if it has. Anyway, I realized recently that in the cosmere there seem to be a lot of opposites and parallels to everything. When kelsier is first teaching Vin about allomancy he says that every push has a pull (or something like that) meaning that everything has an opposite or a consequence. Every allomantic metal has an opposite to it and when combined they (most of the time) cancel out. We see more opposites on Sel, where the seons seem to be the exact opposites of the skaze. One emits light while the other seems to absorb light. On Roshar we see that honorspren are the opposites of cryptically and tend to dislike them, just how shallan and kaladin hated each other at first. But then we also see that a bunch of the shards seem to have opposites, so what if they all have opposites? It isn't really sixteen different shards but eight pairs of opposites. Ruin vs Preservation. Odium (hatred) vs Devotion (love). Autonomy (self sufficiency) vs Dominion (control). These are the obvious pairings but there are also unobvious ones: Honor (morality) vs Ambition (desire) and Endowment (natural skill) vs Cultivation (improving or refining something) So with this trend of opposite shards, perhaps we can learn more about the six shards whose intent we don't know. Brandon has mentioned that there is a shard who "just wants to survive" but he hasn't specifically named its intent as survival or anything else. With this we can try to speculate what the opposite of a shard who just wants to survive would be. The answer could be A) A shard who just wants to die, B) A shard who wants to kill/destroy or C) Something else entirely Then if we could figure out that pair it would leave us with four more shards of unknown intent which would only be two pairs, so we'd be close to figuring them all out. Let me know if you have any other proof, or prove me wrong. Either way we'll be one step closer to unraveling some of the biggest mysteries in the cosmere.
  16. This theory comes from thinking about the likelihood that Adonalsium and his shards and attributes are based on or closely related to Earth religions. It is important to note that I am not suggesting that these books are allegorical. Their internal consistency and foundation have been made stronger by the study of world religions. These ideas were sparked by thinking about Odium as a manifestation of divine wrath: This is something that has been discussed already, but I think it is a huge clue to what is going on with the shards more generally. Although Odium is described as “divine hatred,” I think readers have correctly interpreted this to mean “wrath.” (I think it’s also possible that some of the other shards—perhaps especially those with weaker or very compatible vessels—have gone a little “batty” from being isolated from other divine virtues that would have kept them from going overboard with their Intent.) So, anyway, substituting Odium for the theologically familiar “wrath” is a smart move, as it allows for some speculation but is not blatant. Some shards, such as Endowment and Dominion are actual theological concepts, but they are less obvious to readers than Wrath would have been. This brings me to another possible substitution: “Honor” as a replacement for “Covenant.” There is a lot of debate over the relationship between goodness and honor, but what if Honor represents the covenants that a god makes with a people? (Covenant—or compact, if you like—also has legal and social meanings in addition to the theological one.) Thinking of Honor as representing covenants maintains the oath and bonds aspect of Honor, but it should allow us to talk about honor (and Honor) with less emphasis on goodness. On the other side of the coin, it also allows for more flexibility and room for interpretation with how covenants, oaths, and bonds are “honored” in-world. (Rightness vs. Justice vs. Letter of the Law, etc.) It is probably more useful to think of “honor” as a verb: to enforce or follow through on a covenant, oath, or to maintain a bond. Again, I am not arguing that the possible use of the concept of a covenant is allegorical. Tanavast never sent a rainbow after a particularly bad Highstorm. Gods make promises to and agreements with their followers. I won’t attempt to rewrite our understanding of the Cosmere or even of SA with this theory. I am more interested in how it could influence existing discussions and current and future theories. The one application I’ll suggest is also probably the most obvious. I suspect Adonalsium already had a covenant with the Listeners before his shattering: Post shattering, Honor, now separated from “the whole” appeared with the more Physically-inclined, spren-attracting humans and a willingness to betray or downgrade preexisting covenants. For a Listener, flirting with some other gods would not be unreasonable under those circumstances. Keeping in mind that Honor may have been a little intense with his Intent as a shard, are there other ways that covenants and agreements might have ended up a bit “off”? What is the Oathpact? Why do the Heralds blame Honor for their situation? Is a hypothetical Parshendi covenant still in existence somehow? Finally, I realize that this doesn’t touch on Cultivation’s role, though hopefully it will lead to speculation about how she fits into this picture. I’m very interested to hear thoughts on this idea! Also, I'm just realizing the bad timing of suggesting a theory just before we dig into the first chapters of Oathbringer. Oh well!
  17. I'm curious if the number 16 is important to the cosmere because that's how many Shards Adonalsium shattered into or if the number 16 has a deeper importance and Adonalsium shattered into 16 Shards because of that deeper importance.
  18. Has anyone ever thought about Adonalsium shattering in the same way an atom does? I'm talking about the way nuclear fission works; beta and alphas decay etc . Usually the atoms that split off are extremely radioactive and put off a lot of energy themselves. If there is a thread that existed or a question put towards Brandon could you refer it to me! The reason I wonder is that it ends with ism and this refers to elements much of the time. A lot of your heavier weight elements naturally decay very quickly some on the manner of microseconds or less. I'm wondering if Adonalsium is referring to an extremely heavy weight atom that was either stable or maybe it was unstable which is why he/it had to be shattered.
  19. We know that Hoid has access to several systems of Investiture, and that among these are Feuchemy and Lightweaving. Now, that fact that he seems to have Feruchemy is particularly interesting. As far as we know, Feruchemy cannot be obtained later in life- you must be born with it. It stands to reason, then, that Hoid was born with this ability, and, frankly, there's no reason to think he wasn't. After all, the raw material from which the Shards, and hence magic, come- Adonalsium- existed on Yolen at some time in the past. When the shards went to other worlds, they brought systems of magic with them. Lightweaving is also interesting, as the Lightweavers were apparently also an order of Knights Radiant, and both apparently have similar abilities. It seems unlikely that this is a coincidence. Once again, the KR are associated with a Shard, Honor in this case, and once again that shard, or a form of it, seems to have existed on Yolen when Adonalsium was there. Given these facts, I propose that before the shattering of Adonalsium, all the systems of magic we now have scattered throughout the cosmere were present on Yolen. Allomancers, Awakeners, users of the Dor- you could find all of them there. I suspect, of course, that magic on Yolen will not look exactly like the magic in any of the books. They would have known about the interactions between the systems and probably a bit about the underlying Realmatic theory. And since the shattering, you have gotten things such as the Dor that are strongly linked to new physical location of the Shards. The Yolenites woulds probably have viewed them not as separate systems of magic, but all parts of a single whole that could be controlled to various ends. Essentially, if having a single Shard on a world, and that lets you use magic, how can having all sixteen of them on a single world not let you use magic? Hoid seems to know a great deal about the interactions of systems of Investiture. Where did he learn this? I suspect he learned much of it on the world of his birth, where such things were studied and known about- Yolen.
  20. I just completed a reread of TWOK, my first after finishing all of the other works in the Cosmere, and had a thought about the Dawnshards... The only things we know for sure about the Dawnshards is that: They are not the same thing as regular shards on Roshar (shardblades), nor are they they same thing as the Honorblades which were held by the Heralds. -- WOB They played a huge role in protecting humanity on Roshar from the desolations in the past, and Honor is worried about the fact that they are now lost -- Dalinar's final vision in TWOK They can bind "any creature voidish or mortal" which apparently is a special property -- Poem of Ista Given all this info, it seems to me that most people thing the Dawnshards were some sort of ancient Spren that could bind to voidish and/or mortal beings that conferred unique powers that are now lost. Perhaps the people these Dawnshards bound were the Dawnsingers. It's a great theory, but I've got another, simpler one... What if the "Dawnshards" are actually just another way to describe Shards of Adonalsium? I started the Cosmere with the Stormlight Archives, so it has always confused me just how many different things are described as "Shards." What if, on Roshar, the BIG shards, the "complete" Shards of Adonalsium (ie Honor, Cultivation, Odium), are referred to as the Dawnshards in order to differentiate them from different, regular "shards" which are actually shards of shards (spren). Here's why I think this might fit: They are the shards that existed on Roshar at the "dawn" of creation, ergo they are the "Dawnshards" "Talk of them was obviously prevalent among those recording the early mythologies" They can bind any creature voidish or mortal. As far as we know, there aren't any limitations on picking up or holding a Shard of Adonalsium They existed some time ago and played a part in helping humanity fight off the desolations (Honor and Cultivation vs. Odium) But they are lost now (Honor and Cultivation are dead/splintered), and Honor is worried that humanity can't fight off the desolations (Odium) without them The magic system on Roshar seems somewhat different in present times (post-splintering?) than in Dalinar's visions of the past (pre-splintering?) If I'm right, then this gives the following quote form the Poem of Ista new meaning... Someone tried to hold on to a Shard of Adonalsium, probably Honor, presumably after its original bearer died. They must not have been able to hold onto it because we know now that Honor is splintered. Maybe this is why the person in the poem had to "crawl" up the steps. What do you guys think? Poke holes in this for me...
  21. I don't know if this has been suggested before but I have a theory as to what Hoid is up to. I think his quest is to reforge Adonalsium by traveling to each of the shard worlds, collecting a splinter of each shard, and then combining them. I think this would then either cause a cascade effect across the cosmere or create a new cosmere (mini verse) with him as the vessel for the Adonalsium. I do think it's more likely the former because of some of the things he has said on Roshar. He said things like "though I care for this world I will watch it burn to get what I need". I think this implies that he would ascend into the current cosmere and be able to restore the planet in a similar fashion as Sazed when he ascended to become Harmony. Thoughts?
  22. So, I've been thinking a lot about magic systems lately. They all seem to be related to the Shard that created them (preservation is related to pushing on metals and enflaming people's emotions? That's a bit of a stretch), and Adonalsium is all the Shards, and so doesn't really have a specific Shardic Intent, and so the magic system he may or may not have created would just be something to do with Investiture, and nothing else. This is what I think it would be: You take something and you store Investiure in it (kind of like nicrosil feruchemy), in the form of physical abilities/attributes. This includes speed, emotions, health, etc. (sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it? Don't worry, it deviates from feruchemy in the next part). Then, the Investiture stored in the object is not anything in particular, but just pure Investiture. When you want to use it, you simply drain the Investiture out of it and convert it into anything you want it to be. People who could use this magic system would be able to use magic systems created by other Shards as well, since all the Shards came from Adonalsium. So, you could make yourself really light, then fly across the sky by pushing yourself along on a coin. Here's why I think the magic system would work: Adonalsium doesn't have a specific Shardic Intent, so he can do anything without conflicting against it. The magic system, similarly, wouldn't have any specific boundaries. This, however, means that it is subject to normal rules, such as the first law of thermodynamics, which states that energy (and so matter and Investiture) cannot be created or destroyed. You may be thinking at this point 'but that can't be true, since Allomancy created Investiture'. However, I have two answers to this. The first is that the Investiture wasn't created, it simply came from somewhere, and that somewhere was Preservation. His Intent didn't allow destruction, or Ruin, so the power couldn't come from the people themselves; it had to come from Preservation. My second answer is that, for all the Investiture being created by Allomancy, an equal amount was lost through hemalurgy. Therefore, no Investiture was gained or lost, therefore leaving the rule intact. Because of this rule, the Investiture would either have to come from Adonalsium (which I find unlikely, since it would A: weaken him to the thing that opposed him (look on the Coppermind for details), and B: would make him 'interfere' (quote from Harmony), and would split the power into Shards, leaving him weaker and with an Intent that would leave his mind. So, it has to come from the humans who use it. However, the thing stored is pure Investiture, since it's not from any particular Shard, and so you could convert it to anything you want, and since it doesn't have any focus, you can store it in anything and can store anything and tap anything, even if the thing you're tapping isn't the same thing as what you stored. Feel free to add anything if you want, since I probably left something out or made a loophole.
  23. So, essentially, from this WoB, we can determine that the method of Splintering is the same as the original Shattering, and that this will hold true across all levels further down the line too. What I want to know is if the original 16 Shardholders were all present with Hoid at the EXACT moment of Adonalsiums shattering. If so, then wouldn't they all technically know how to splinter/shatter other Shards? From the information we have, so far the only Shards who have demonstrated knowledge of Splintering are Odium and Autonomy (their misendeavours on Sel). Why would this be the case? Extra question: Which non-Shards, that we are aware of, have knowledge of Splintering? Hoid is an obvious pick, but what about Khriss or other 17th Sharders?
  24. By now, everyone probably know that in the beginning (or at least the beginning of time relevant to us in the Cosmere), there was Adonalsium. He was Shattered by 16 people, who split his power into 16 equal parts, and then separated and went their different ways, some together, some not. Then, after everyone settled down, Odium (formerly known as Rayse) travelled around the Cosmere, splintering Shards as he went. The Splintering split the Shards into Splinters with different Intents to the Shard they were once part of. Now here's the thing; Shattering sounds very much like Splintering: a new Intent? Check; a splitting of the power? Check. This means that the things we know about Splintering can be applied to Shattering, and vice versa. As proven by Sazed, more than one Shard can be held by the same person/entity. This means someone can take a Splinter's power and merge it with another to creat a new Intent, with a greater power than before. This means that Splintering may not be irreversible as once thought, merely difficult to gain enough Splinters to gain power equal to the power held by the Shards. This is no doubt what Odium wanted when he started his killing spree. He may not have been able to destroy the power completely, but could do enough that it made things really hard to gain a power level equal to that of Odium's. Of course, he might have trouble trying to combat Harmony, what with him having the power of two Shards, but that will come later. This means that, eventually, someone may be able to gather the power of all 16 Shards (and their Splinters), and become Adonalsium. Of course, this doesn't make one invincible... Feel free to add anything if you like, since this theory is probably incomplete and needs refining.
  25. The Shattering is the singular event in cosmere history. Brandon says, “The great writing question of the cosmere, the underlying theme is, what do men do when given the Power of the Gods? How do they act? What do they do?” This post speculates how the Shattering might have happened mechanically. It is another in my periodic series, “A Theory of Cosmere Magic.” Unlike splintering, which leaves an indeterminate number of differently sized splinters, the Shattering produced precisely 16 Shards of originally equal Power. Khriss says the Vessels “divided [Adonalsium’s] essence between them.” (M:SH, Part 3-2, Kindle Loc. 938.) Brandon uses the word “essence” to mean the Physical Realm manifestation of “the godly powers.” (I use the term “Powers” to describe the “godly powers” – Spiritual Realm Investiture that isn’t part of a Spiritweb.) The Vessels could easily divide Adonalsium’s liquid “essence” if he had a “godpool.” Shards leave perpendicularities on planets they Invest. I think Adonalsium left a single “godpool” at the place he Invested the entire cosmere. That place was Yolen. “Killing” Adonalsium meant erasing his mind, his capacity to direct the Powers. His godpool gave the Vessels access to his mind. I speculate the Vessels dropped an aluminum “bomb” into the godpool. Aluminum is “magically inert” and acts as an “Investiture sink.” The aluminum neutralized Adonalsium’s Cognitive Realm Investiture – his mind – making him “brain dead.” The Spiritual Realm Investiture – the Powers – survived undamaged. After the aluminum “bomb” killed Adonalsium, his liquid “essence” lay in the godpool. The Vessels quickly sluiced his essence to 16 separate pools of equal volume. The Vessels entered their pools and ascended, emerging as Shards of equal Power. When Rashek and Vin immersed themselves in the Well, their ascensions were partial and temporary. The Vessels’ ascensions were full and permanent. I attribute this difference to the fact that Adonalsium was dead when the Vessels entered their pools, but Preservation was still alive when Rashek and Vin entered the Well. The Well also didn’t represent all of Preservation’s power, since he created it from his own mind to trap Ruin’s consciousness. After Preservation died, Vin did fully ascend by absorbing the mists, the “condensed ‘essence’ of [Preservation’s] godly powers.” Did the Shards hide Yolen to prevent someone like Vin from using the godpool when it replenishes? That’s why Rashek hid the Well. In an accompanying post, I speculate Mistborn foreshadows Dragonsteel. Perhaps Odium wants to kill the other Vessels to become the “one god” when the godpool is full again…16,000 years after the Shattering? Is this what Hoid fears?