Search the Community

So, I've had a couple of theories for a while now that I've wanted to put out there. I don't know if a WoB contradicts them, but I figured I should post this first one. The storm father's explanation in Oathbringer of how the desolations started began with the fuzed and singers attacking humans and the heralds creating the oathpact to stop them. But why exactly did the ancient singers attack in the first place? The way the books are set up, it appears as though after humans arrived on Roshar, they attacked the singers, and the singers retaliated, turning to Odium for power. But this never made much sense to me. First of all, it's never explicitly stated what the humans did to the ancient singers, and second, why would Honor choose to side with human invaders over the people of the world he'd made his home? The first point is actually very important. Sanderson has managed to use character's assumptions to set the tone of the series to great effect so far. Describing the thrill in such a way that readers naturally assumed it to be adrenaline is one of the best examples. The Ella Stele, the ancient document showing that humans were the original VoidBringers, only states that the humans betrayed them, with the betrayal extending to spren, stone, and wind. But, just as with the "Lost Radiants", the betrayal is not explicitly described. That seems intentionally vague to me. As if leaving enough room for something to be interpreted as a betrayal, with the singers interpreting the humans' actions as one, even if it hadn't been intended as one. As I said, the second thing that didn't make sense was why Honor would choose humans who'd supported Odium over the singers who had been of Roshar, especially if they had betrayed the singers who had taken them in. Imagining it as humans going back and forth between Honor and Odium seems unlikely. I think it much more likely that the human abandoned Odium shortly after arriving on Roshar. They saw Honor, and maybe Cultivation, as being more worthy deities, and chose to worship them instead. But then, what triggered the Desolations? Jealousy. As the introduction to chapter 32 of WoR, we get the following passage from a listener's song. The spren betrayed us, it's often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can't provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men. This is the passage that sparked this theory when I first read WoR and then Oathbringer a few years ago, with the last line being the most significant to me. If the Listeners had this song, then they knew about the bond between spren and humans/singers. And this passage makes it seem like spren seem to prefer humans to singers for some reason. The betrayals between singers and spren are mentioned in RoW on at least two occasions. The first is mentioned by Blended during Adolin's trial, when she's testifying against him. The second betrayal is implied by Leshwi to Venli, when she says the spren have forgiven them. But what exactly were these betrayals? I think it has to do with how humans can become surge binders much more easily than singers. Syl tells Kaladin in WoR that Parshendi can't become surgebinders, and Venli expresses her surprise to bonding Timbre in Oathbringer for the same reason. I don't know why spren can bond humans more easily, my current guess is because their emotions are more accessible, but if large numbers of spren were drawn to humans and away from singers after the humans arrived, that could easily be seen as a betrayal that extends to the spren, wind, and stones. This leads to my previous conclusion, where singer jealousy is specifically what triggered all this, which is also the betrayal mentioned by Blended. Odium almost certainly fanned the flames, increasing the ancient singers' jealousy of humans drawing the spren, and making them angry at the spren for "betraying" them, but that jealousy was his opening. The singers turned to Odium, who granted them the power to take revenge on humans, which made them the easily manipulated army he wanted. Thoughts?

I’m sure this (or similar) has been posted before, but I’ve been enjoying thinking about it so I’m posting here for discussion opportunity. We have a couple of confirmed cases now of living shardplate. Kaladin swears the fourth ideal and gains his shardplate, composed of windspren. Jasnah’s living plate is confirmed to be made of logicspren. (1) What makes a spren a likely candidate to make up a radiant’s sharplate (based on Kaladin and Jasnah’s examples): • The radiant is commonly around this type of spren, or vice versa • The spren is attracted to things the radiant does (such as windspren appearing when Kaladin “flies”) • The spren is not a “higher” spren More criteria that are my personal opinion only: • Not an emotion spren. My reasoning is that emotions are fickle and fleeting, and thus attracting emotion spren would be inconsistent. Gloryspren fall into this category. • Not an “unsavory” spren, such as rotspren, deathspren, plaguespren, decayspren. My reasoning is that these would be less likely to be “attracted” to things the radiants do. Here is a breakdown of confirmed shardplate and my guesses. What are your thoughts? Confirmed: • Windrunners = windspren • Elsecallers = logicspren Likely: • Edgedancers = lifespren • Lightweavers = creationspren Personal guesses: • Willshapers = musicspren (I’m basing this solely on the fact that the stones “sing” to Venli) • Dustbringers = flamespren • Skybreakers = starspren • Bondsmiths = bindspren (2), or possibly a different spren type for each bondsmith No idea, maybe a spren we haven’t seen yet: • Truthwatchers • Stonewards Other potential shardplate candidates: • Concentrationspren • Gravitationspren (3) • Luckspren (4) (1) Jasnah’s shardplate is confirmed to be made of logicspren in a WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406-general-reddit-2020/#e14477 (2) Bindspren are the tiny spren Kaladin sees sticking a rock to a wall when he uses a full lashing in Way of Kings chapter 57. (3) Gravitation spren are found around heavy objects. They are used by singers to take on work form. (4) Luckspren are arrow-shaped and bond to greatshells and larkins.

For Adolin's trial honorsprens choose Kalak as High Judge. Why honorsprens still repect Harards when they have broken oaths and caused killings of their species ?

Time for a little thought experiment. I'd be very interested to hear other people's thoughts and takes on this. Let's imagine that Spren were present everywhere in the Cosmere, or atleast everywhere with intelligent life/a presence in the Cognitive Realm. Apart from the regular types of spren, which would just act pretty normally, and Radiant Spren possibly only existing on Roshar due to Honor and Cultivation, there's the third group: Godspren. and then there's those that we still aren't sure about. The Unmade on one hand, and Cusicesh. Now, if we imagine that Spren were a thing everywhere in the Cosmere, I'd say it's safe to assume we'd have a few more of both of these groups. Not many, but a few. What I'm wondering is where they might appear and also what kind of Godspren the known shards might have. Here's a few ideas of mine: Elantris would definitely have a Spren. Urithiru has/is one, and it's a giant Fabrial. Elantris is a Giant Aon. 100% Elantris would have a spren and I bet lots of people would worship it. There would definitely be Folklore that It directs the Shaod, and that you can sway it somehow. I'm unsure whether the ElantrisSpren would also be Devotion's Godspren or if that would be a seperate one. If Devotion could even have one anymore, that is. If it can't, there would very likely be a Dorspren, roaming around on Sel, probably changing character a bit depending on where it is. if a Godspren of Dominion existed, it would probably have ended up as a part of Shu-Dereth, worshipped somehow. I can imagine it having similar powers/characteristics to Nergaoul, only not with Bloodthirst but being atrracted to Courts and Monarchs and other kinds of Rulers. Ruin's Spren would very likely like somewhere in the Pits of Hathsin, or in the biggest most active Volcano. The only reasons for it not to be by the Pits would be because Ruin wants to hide his perpendiculary. Some kind of Fire/Ash being, thing Ragnaros The Firelord, embodying a very local aspect of Ruin, the Volcanos, would make a lot of sense. Preservation's Spren, an a timeline where Fuzz wasn't slowly dying, maybe in the thousand years before the last thousand pre WoA, could be similar to the Nightwatcher, residing somewhere relatively known, and maybe have the ability to "lock" certain things or aspects, and Folklore would have many theories for why it can't prevent Death. Honestly, Lift's wish to not change would probably be so perfect for Preservation's Spren. There might be myths about a being like that existing until a thousand years ago, when the Lord Ruler inherited its powers. I assume the two would have a Dual-Spren too, because their pact is so important for Scadrial as a planet. Either one or two spren, one for the pact and one for Scadrial itself, which they created together. the Pactspren probably couldn't really do much, unable to tip the balance in either way or it would be able to do what Ruin and Preservation can do together, on a smaller scale. Basically, giving life for it to die inevitably. Not sure how fast that would happen though. Now I'm imagining a children's book about a Child asking the Scadrialspren to give life to its toy bunny, and the Scadrialspren telling it that if it gives it life, it will also give it death. The child, eager to finally meet its friend, agrees, and the bunny comes alive, but it ages and decays quickly, and ultimately dies. The Scadrialspren, if they were two, would have powers related to Feruchemy, since that is an innately Scadrian power and one that Preservation and Ruins children can have. Maybe there's a rite for Woldbringers to travel to it before their death and "give" their remaining stores to it, most importantly all the knowledge in their copperminds. I assume we would have seen this Spren in Era 1, with Harmony Meeting it at some point and still wouldn't have understood he was the Hero of Ages. Then, upon his ascension, he would be able to tap into all the knowledge the Scadrialspren held, or he would have gotten that earlier. Autonomy's Spren is probably a plural, one for each Avatar? or is Patji already kind of a Godspren of Autonomy? kind of seems like it. If there is one on Taldain, it might as well be the Sun. I'm out of ideas for this one, but I'd love to hear some! Ambition's Spren is probably AKA The Evil Endowment's Spren could be somewhere on the Planet that we haven't seen yet. Like with the Elantrisspren, Folklore might confuse it and Endowment, like how Cultivation and the Nightwatcher are so close, assuming that it is the Endowmentspren that returns people. It's name would veerry likely be colour-related, and I imagine it shifting through rainbow colours like how Cusicesh shifts faces, or affect colours around it like how Susebron does. Endowment's Spren is a big candidate for the most powerful of the Godspren, having been Endowed with a lot of power, and probably having recieved guidance from her mother the same way the Nightwatcher does. Whether Endowment would genuinely teach it to return people, like how close Cultivation and the Nightwatcher are, or if Endowment would give it a seperate ability, I don't know. Maybe it would just be Nightwatcher Lite (Daywatcher? :D), just endowing you with a boon without a curse. A cooler idea than that: Awakening is an End-Neutral System, right? Maybe the Daywatcher (patent pending) could give you boons, but in exchange for a lot of breath or something else. The more breath you bring, the more powerful your boon. Some people would pilger there to exchange their own breath for something, or maybe go with the collected 10-100 Breaths of their family or village for something bigger. Basically, you become "Awakened" somehow, Endowed with a gift. It would definitely have immense amounts of Investiture/Breath to use and be the best awakener ever. The wildest idea I have for Endowment's Godspren is that it uses itself to Awaken, either jumping from (dead) host to host, or it's a Bondsmith-like Bond where you have a Breath even stronger than a Divine Breath. Whimsy, Mercy, Valor and Invention I know too little about to theorize. Other things... oh, Silverlight is another city that might have its own spren like Elantris and Urithiru. And I don't like Imagining the characteristics of a Braizen Spren of Odium, which is probably where his Godspren, if he had/has one, resides. Torturespren let's go. And if Ashyn has a spren, it either now has two, the old one died or changed a lot when it was destroyed. That Spren could very well be Patient 0 for the magic diseases. Anyway, lot's of theorycrafting and rambling from me. I'm interested to hear other people's ideas and theories.

(In case this has been posted or asked before, which I wouldn't be surprised by, please redirect me to that threat) so a friend has recently finished Oathbringer and I ended up saying "imagine if somehow Dalinar bonded Nergaoul", had a chuckle, and now I'm here. Do you think it could be possible to bond Unmade? I'll list arguments that I can come up with, would be interested to hear more. And much more interesting, further down, what could those bonds look like. Con: - The Process of Unmaking might make this impossible by itself, even if it was possible before, whatever the Unmade were before. This might be why the Sibling was so afraid of being Unmade. That could also be because they were afraid that even after "death" they might have to bond someone again. - The Unmade have differing levels of Intelligence/Sapience. Like most Spren, some of the Unmade are more like animals or not even that, just personified forces, than thinking beings. Maybe the more "intelligent" ones would be able to bond, but something like Ashertmarn would probably make a bond partner as enticing as a Windspren, only with more corruption. Pro: - The Sibling was afraid of "being unmade". The Sibling was able to bond Navani. - Re-Shephir tried to establish some kind of Bond with Shallan. Again, we don't know if this would be a Nahel Bond, the possible Odium-equivalent, or something unique to the Midnight Mother. - when imprisoning Nergaoul, Dalinar states (which he probably assumes) that it would only be able to be captured by someone who "deeply, sincerely, understands it". On one hand, this would mean that some kind of connection between an Unmade and a Person (using this as an umbrella term for any bond-able species) is atleast possible. Of course, that could also just be something like Blackthorn Dalinar really vibing with the Thrill. - On the other hand, this would mean that the Lightweaver that once imprisoned Re-Shephir had a sufficient connection/understanding of it. I'm imagining some kind of Lightweaver whose thruths involve something along the lines of "i don't understand people" or "I feel like I'm not part of my species" or some kind of alienating experience that was close enough to Re-Shephirs imitate-to-understand. - Yelig-Nar. That was definitely some kind of bond, but it seems to have more in common with posession than any kind of mutual agreement. Maybe the "swollow this gemstone to imitate having a Gemheart" tactic could work with other Unmade too. - Sja-Anat, or the Enlightened Spren. They are able to bond humans and singers. Granted, Enlightening and Unmaking are probably two distinct processes, but probably not dissimilar. If Enlightened Spren can bond people, maybe Spren could too. Speculation on Bonds: okay, now for the fun part. Let's assume it's possible to bond Unmade, somehow, in a fashion similar to the Nahel Bond, or similar to the Yelig-Nar version aka more close to Forms of Power. Let's get to speculating, I want to hear some crackpot theories. Here are a few of my own: All unmade: A bond with someone might grant even the "dumb" Unmade more Sapience and Intelligence, especially in the physical realm. It might able be able to save or protect them from the threat of being re-unmade, something especially Sja-Anat could be interested in. Now I'm scared of Sja-Anat bonding a Ghostblood member. Additionally, the Heavenly Ones have 9 Surges, and there's 9 Unmade. They might also grant you one of the Voidlight Surges. Ashertmarn: Congratulations! If your new spren is capable of spoken thought, you're now on your path to either passionately or under oath pursue hedonistic revel. Any powers? I doubt it. Ashertmarn would just continue doing what it does anyway and make it so you always have party-people around you. Very close to "Passion" in intent I think, so maybe like with Honorspren he might actually have some kind of oaths, or rather convictions that his bondpartner should subscribe to, stuff like "I will live every moment to the fullest" and "I will persue pleasure" Surge: Cohesion? Ba-Ado-Mishram: She was able to sustain the false Desolation, so I assume you would be able to do something similar to how Dalinar can now open a Perpendiculary for a bit. Again, BAM wouldn't really need you for that. I'm not surprised the Ghostbloods want to find BAM. Surge: Gravitation? Chemoarisch: We know too little here. Surge: Division, because she's the "Dustmother"? Dai-Gonarthis: I've read someone say that he's basically already bonded to Moash somehow, which I don't remember anywhere in the book. He definitely is the one taking Moash's sorrow, but I doubt he needs a bond for that. If he does, he's probably a great partner if you plan to go do war crimes and not feel bad about it. Seems like a Bond with the Black Fisher could be similar to a Lightweaver one, only you double down on your bad qualities instead of confronting them. Source: Abrasion? Moelach: Future Sight, yay. Glys on Steroids, maybe. Surge: Illumination, in the same way as Renarin has it? Nergaoul: We've seen a close approximation of this with the Blackthorn, right? Moelach seems to be on that threshhold of Sapience that he might genuinely profit from a bond, and either him or Ashertmarn are the closest to "Passion", only his convictions would be more like "I will kill" and "I will seek the fight". Surge: Transportation? Lezian-like, swapping bodies taken by the Thrill? Re-Shephir: Prime Candidate for a bond. She already tried to get something like that to Shallan. the Midnight Essence might be available to her bondpartner too, she would gain more understanding, which she seems to seek. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one that actually happens on screen somehow. Whether in a gemheart or with a bond or some sort I have no idea. "a creature of instinct that is drawn to violence and pain", as coppermind puts it, puts her, in my opinion, on that important threshhold. Surge: Tension. Sja-anat: The other Prime Candidate, right? Enlightened Spren, Renarin, etc... I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of bond is a huge safety measure for her in case Odium tries to re-unmake her. I can't quite imagine what a bond with her would do for someone, but it would surely be interesting. "The taker of Secrets" sounds like someone who might otherwise have been a Lightweaver, Truthwatcher or Elsecaller could be a candidate. What would you say, who would be a scarier potential partner for her? Iyatil, or Jasnah? Surge: Transformation Yelig-nar: Well, we've kind of seen this, right? Your own source of Surges AND Voidlight to use them and cool Skin Cristals! Surge: Progession

Apologies if it has been discussed or I've forgotten something. What would happen to a sapient spren if it was captured in a gem? We've obviously seen lower spren be captured and we've seen Unmade like the Thrill and Ba-Ado-Mishram (kinda seen) be captured, but what about the in-between? Could you manifest some effect from a fabrial made with a Sapient spren? What would happen if the gem was broken and the spren escaped (would the spren experience a loss of function, cognition, etc.). (I think this has been somewhat discussed in some Shardcasts about Ba-Ado-Mishram.) Does this affect bonds (thinking Nahel) in strange ways?

Hello So. We saw in RoW, finally, how Shardplate is "made". The windspren that always staned Kaladin turned out to be the Windrunners "Platespren" We see some similar behaviour from Gloryspren towards Dalinar as early as in WoK when he beats Elhokar in a race, and later on in OB when he rejects Odium´s offer to take away his pain. In both instances Gloryspren surrounded him much like Windspren surround Kaladin. So we can assume that Gloryspren are Bondsmith´s Platespren My question is what are the other order´s Platespren? I can guess Edgedancers have Lifespren and Lightweavers would have Creationspren But what about the rest?

A windrunner? So - when Venli tells/shows Leshwi that she is a Radiant, Leshwi asks if she knew an Honorspren. To me, this brought together a lot of why Leshwi was so connected with the Windrunners - its not just that the Heavenly Ones are the most analogous to Windrunners, but that they were ANCIENT Windrunners - before spren chose humans. I think that Leshwi is going to be our key to discovering what the Dawnsingers did to lose sprens' trust. My guess is that there was some... recreance-lite that happened with the Dawnsingers, but I haven't fully worked out what that timeline would be. This might be why there is only one "generation" of fused - they are the original dawnsinger radiants - that Odium chose due to their unique connections to the surges/spren. And the fused were willing to help because they had just been abandoned by their spren for... some reason. (or maybe not why, but these events feel like they could/should be connected to me - they could have the same cause, maybe) Were Dawnsingers true "Radiants"? Or did they just form another type of bond with those spren? Will Leshwi revive her old Honorspren and become a heavenly one-windrunner? (along the same lines as Venli's dual willshaper/envoy form powers) I need to do a re-read to find more details that support this (and try to find clues of why spren left singers in the first place), but wanted to bring it up here to see what other people thought.

Going through my second read through of the current set of books in the SA... And I can't believe I didn't catch it. If Syl, or presumably any bonded spren can become anything, almost at the whim of the radiant, to whatever is needed or thought of, that alone might have a potential lethality far beyond that of even nightblood. Why not, just imagine a shiny metal surface that is in the perfect shape to be instantly summoned that would be from your hand, to have a piece jutting into the eye slits of 100 shardbearer's around you? I know size limits seem to be largely figurative, but even if there was a limit there in size, toned down, why not something similar to nearly instantly KO anyone you are in a duel with even near you? It would take aiming and having to pretend to work around your opponents defenses much easier. Think multifaceted, and then take away all your opponents potential dodge options by having that spike also there. One could do this with less than the 6' of metal that we got already, but the pure unavoidable lethality radius would be much closer, but still more than possible if you could control you imagination enough, and simply get in range. This would be a far more dangerous attack to use in a huge amount of the close in fighting we have seen in the books. With a full knight radiant, it is almost described as being almost an instant transition, not even waiting for heart beats, with the spren forming to custom shapes near instantly, this could be done so easily to be so very hard to dodge from simply by manipulating the shape to just abstract pointy object that bear no semblance of a normal weapon at all, that would have a point part inside your opponents body's location rn, through any gaps in armor, with it's handle where your hand is already. Also, this is related, but why not simply summon Syl in a very thin piece of metal that envelops your entire body as a second skin? Sure, you couldn't breathe, see or move that well, but with high control, this could save you a lot of effort in defending for split seconds at a time in crucial spots, especially in times where one might not have sworn the oath for plate, and against other shardbearers...

So I am listening to the newest Shardcast, and as usual I came up with a new theory. The latest Shardcast is discussing Ba-Ado-Mishram, and as they were spitballing some things I have come up with a hot take on the origins of this most mysterious Unmade. So there is some mention in Oathbringer/WoR epigraphs (I believe the Hessi's Mythica sequence) that Ba-Ado-Mishram was "A Highprincess of the enemy forces" and this seems to imply that she was some kind of mortal. Of course, this is in-book research so there can be all kinds of Recreance shenanigans. Later, in RoW, Kalak references a character called Mishram, with a certain amount of familiarity. Also, there is one point in RoW part 2 (maybe, don't have the book on me right now but it's the scene where the Fused and Venli are invading Urithiru) where Rabonial swears by "Ado," which as one Shardcaster pointed out is the first part of the Alethi glyph for light- and also similar to Adonalsium. In addition, and I'm not sure this is relevant, Chaos keeps pointing out that there are not one, but two hyphens in Ba-Ado-Mishram's name, which is unique among the Unmade. Ba-Ado-Mishram has some kind of Connection to the Parsh, Spren, and Roshar as a whole, which is unusual since Adhesion (the Surge of Connection) is called "Honor's purest Surge." My theory: Ado, the entity that Rabonial refers to, is the Spren of Lights (as in the physical representation of Investiture on Roshar), a being on a level with the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher. Mishram, the person that Kalak refers to, was once a mortal Singer who eventually bonded (in a Bondsmith-like process) with Ado, and then was corrupted/Unmade somehow by Odium, leading to the entity that modern Rosharans refer to as Ba-Ado-Mishram. The "Ba" in this case would mean something along the lines of "both" or "together." Let me know what ya'll think! I'm pretty new to theory crafting and I'd love to hear any thoughts you guys have on my style.

Now that it's confirmed that there are only nine Surges usable by the Fused, as they don't believe Adhesion is a true Surge, I wonder if there's some significance to the Unmade? Re-Shephir was sealed away by a Lightweaver, right? What if there's a reason for that? I always found it strange how Shallan seemed to empathize so easily with Re-Shephir. I first became suspicious about Shardplate being manifested lesser spren after reading a question asked to Brandon about Kaladin often being followed by packs of windspren, and I started thinking what type of spren each order of Knights Radiant might manifest as Shardplate. That led me to think about the relationship between humans and singers, and spren, and I started wondering if the Unmade might correspond to an order of Radiants or Herald each, as well. Following this thread, it seems that the Unmade might be a subversion of the attributes associated with each order/Herald: Nergaoul might be the dark inversion of Taln's role as Herald of War, as Nergaoul inspires a bloodlust that robs war and combat of any higher or noble purpose. Ba-Ado-Mishram, as a commander of Odium's forces, might be a dark counter to Jezrien's role as Herald of Kings, the leader of humanity, or maybe to Ishar, as she manipulated Connection on a massive scale to bond with singers and provide Regals and Voidlight Sja-Anat's ability to corrupt spren may be a dark adaptation of the Truthwatchers' mission to spread truth through the populace and keep an eye on the world's leaders, but Sja-Anat's children serve as spies rather than whistleblowers. I'm of the opinion that, because the Fused see the Surge of Adhesion as a lie perpetrated by Honor, and it indeed it can't be suppressed by the Voidlight fabrial, one of the two orders that has that Surge will not have a corresponding Unmade. It just so happens that those two orders, the Bondsmiths and the Windrunners, were associated with leadership, the Bondsmiths with leadership of the Knights Radiant, the Windrunners with leadership of humanity at large. I wonder if there's any deeper significance to that, that maybe Odium didn't want an Unmade that was meant as a dark subversion of leaders. I'm not sure, and maybe I'm blowing this all out of proportion, but hey, there's always another secret.

There is philosophical dilema, paradox from the field of metaphysics of identity, Is called "Ship of Theseus" paradox. So, there is Ship of Theseus. It stays in harbour of Athens. In time, rotet and decayed planks of ship are replaced with new ones, to the point the whole Ship is fully replaced. Still has the same owner, or his offspring. Is this ship still the same ship? And later, someone rebuilds ship from the old planks. Is puttung together piece by piece, untill has the whole ship made from original planks. So is this original ship? Has all original parts. But not have original history. Witch one is original Ship? And, more important for us, how would look like the spren of Ship? And witch one would be Original? And how they would look like compare to each other? would they be twin-spren? Would they have the same memories of Theseus's Jurney? Witch one would be consider as Original Spren?

Lesser spren Transcript 1. I only met a single lesser spren during my time in Shadesmar. As such it should be noted that there may be significant variations in the species unaccounted for due to the small sample size. 2. The Lesser spren (as he identified himself) appears as a simple constructive drawing figure. Subject has line implying features on his body such as pectorals, eyes, kneecaps, and a pelvis, as well as a soft “shading” on the top of his head in the shape of hair. 3. Looking at him, he should be easier to draw than he is. It seems something about him is interfering with my sense of spatial awareness. It’s as if, despite being three dimensional the image of his depth was an illusion. Like, if you were to rotate a glass object you were shining a light through and observe the shadow. 4. Instead of facial expressions shapes and lines appear around the face to indicate emotions, a little like how spren appear in the physical realm. Apparently the “empathic symbols,” as he called them, are a part of the lesser spren himself. I have observed narrow trapezoids a short distance away from the face for laughter, teardrop shapes on the the top of the head for worry, and (I particularly enjoyed achieving this one) a row of diagonal lines on the face just under the line that indicates the eyes for abashment. Cont. I was privileged to be able to be able to talk with him at length. Although amicabl,e in his conversation with me he seemed deliberately vague when I had asked about him, his species, or even his personal matters, when I asked his name he replied that he was, “a work in progress”. In fairness, he seemed just as frustrated that he couldn’t give me straight answers as I was trying to pry them out of him. The most I was able to get out, beyond what I have already told you, was that there are other of his kind and that they live “in between”.

I said it in 2015 and I say it now. "I want my google assistant to respond to Syl! And randomly unprompted throughout the day say quips

Hello. Sprens are described in a multitude of colors. But their color comes from investiture. Would a human with the 3rd hightening see spren differently or are they already glowing in their perfect color? I am colorblind (not compmetely but also not just red-green) I always think about the hightening being compareable to how normal people see compared to me.

The Wiki Page https://coppermind.net/wiki/Nahel_bond starts with: But I remebered this: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/452/#e14509 I came to this Topic when i wanted to mention, "This Character has a Nahel Bond" in a WTCC Question but checked the Wiki to not confuse everyone. Can we change this in the Wiki? I know that WOBs are only secondary canon but the quote is from December 2020, so it is pretty recent and past RoW. And he literally said, that it is the definition. It does not just change "human or singer" to "being from the Physical Realm", but also "sentient spren" to "spren".

At the end of RoW, Leshwi asks Venli if her spren knows a specific honorspren. Honorspren are obviously related to Windrunners, who seem like the counterparts to Heavenly Ones This makes me wonder if all the brands had bonded a true spren before becoming fused, and that spren influenced what brand they became. I don’t mean a Nahel bond, but more like a gemheart bond. So like all the Heavenly Ones had Honorspren in their gemhearts, Masked ones had mistspren, regrow the would have Cultivationspren, the abrasion ones had Ashspren, division would be Highspren, transformation would be Cryptics, Husk ones would be Elsecallers, Deep ones would be Reachers, and whatever has tension would be Peakspren. I know its not perfect, because obviously the spren each grant 2 surges normally, but I still feel like there is something there. I’m sure this theory has been floated some way or another, but its been itching at the back of my brain for a few days now.

Given that in Roshar there are lenses, it seems clear that if there were bacteria, somebody (in Kharbranth, for example, if Lirin doesn't) should know it. Perhaps the beings that cause infections are the rotspren, and not the other way around (that is, the infections attract rotspren), as I thought initially. But that doesn't make much sense, does it? Rotspren seem the kind of spren that can't affect the physical realm, and if they caused the infections, they should be attracted by wounds, and this doesn't seem to happen. Moreover, plaguespren are attracted by other kind of infections. (Viral?). So, rotspren are attracted by infected wounds and other rotting processes, like in old food and corpses. So, why has nobody discovered real infection agents? There is plenty of tecnology to develope microscopes. Perhaps bacteria in Roshar are smaller than in Earth?

So, this is a big curiosity of mine, and when I went to the coppermind article on spren, I just have to say HOLY CRAP that’s a long wiki page, with over 200 sources! Kudos to you all! So. We know spren have genders (most of the time — the Sibling is an exception) and parents (how many?). So ... how does it work? Does one spren just start to get thought of in more than one way to the point that it splits? That doesn’t sound likely. Like, what happens? Does someone tear a piece of a spren off or something? The spren cut by spanreed fabrials divide in separate spren perhaps? Does Stormlight coalesce into a new spren under the right circumstances? We know most of the Honorspren are relatively young — younger than Syl. Where did they come from and how? Does the Stormfather regularly birth new spren? Perhaps Sja-Anat’s status as parent is a better starting place? How do spren generally have specific parents, like the Reacher (?) in OB? The word “conceive” may be strangely relevant (tangent). Perhaps we will learn more about this in Stormlight 5? Any predictions?

This line of thought springs from Leshwi's reaction to finding out about Venli's bond to her spren. The relationship between Singers/Listeners was never explained in depth beyond the fact that Singers/Listeners can trap them in their gemhearts to switch between different forms. In the listeners' songs, there is mention of a betrayal from the spren, but the information has been passed down verbally for many generations, and is therefore very unreliable. In Rhythm of War, Venli reveals her bond and Leshwi's reaction is to wonder whether they have been forgiven for their betrayal. That of course raises the question: What betrayal? Was their bonding with Odium some kind of betrayal? What was their relationship to sentient spren?