Search the Community

Ok, so I'm re-reading Wax and Wayne, and I feel like I missed something about half-way through. Obviously, I know about Lessie and Wax - but the first reference I recall seeing of them being married is halfway through Shadows of Self when Marasi thinks, "Why else would Bleeder be parading around the city wearing the body of the man who had killed Waxillium's wife?" I checked the Coppermind and it says they were married, but there is no source referenced confirming that. The Lessie article has no sources at all. And the Waxillium article references the Shadows of Self Prologue which covers their meeting, but not getting married (though the connection between them is clearly obvious by the end of the prologue). I did a search of my kindle edition of the trilogy and can find nothing saying they were married (but a Kindle search isn't very flexible). Can someone point me to a passage in either Alloy of Law or Shadows of Self, before Marasi's thought above, indicating they were married?

Ok so I know the theory that Hoid was the one who actually tricked Terrorvangian already exists, and its one I strongly believe in, but I don't think all the evidence is there. From my own recent re reading of Mistborn: Secret History, I found the line "Gods, it appeared, could still fall for a classic misdirection con" from Kelsier, after tricking or misdirecting Ruin. This got me going hard on the idea that Hoid had in fact tricked terrorvangian, as he had been talking about the basics of misdirection at the beginning of that very scene. I'm not one for long theory posts (yet), but please add on any other info, or if this has been spotted before. Thanks lads.

So, we know that Hoid/Cephandrius has multiple different powers. We know he has Allomancy, breaths (Heightenings), and most recently, lightweaving. In RoW or OB (Can't remember which) we are told that when someone is invested with a specific shards power, for example knights radiant, they are bound to that shards sphere of influence. Mraize tells Shallan she can never leave the Rosharan system. So if Hoid has multiple powers from different shards, how has he managed to avoid being bound to those systems?

Okay, so first post ever, probably filled with holes but here it is. I have a theory that lightweavers could actually shapeshift, especially Shallan. Why? Well, Stormlight healing works on their spiritual identity, and how they see themselves. So, what if a lightweaver such as Shallan could make a new persona, always wear the illusion until they “are” them, and then would that cause them to heal looking like said person?

SPOILERS!!! For Stormlight archive and missborn i’m sure there’s already A lot of posts about this but how is honor Dead are they talking about the host or the power is honor Dead in the way that preservation was dying where the host died but the power was still there so Sazed’s could take it can someone still take up the power of honor is it actually possible to kill the power of a shard

As I read this book, I couldn't help but wonder who people ship together. So, what are everyone's favorite ships?

I'm making my way through my first read-through of stormlight and I am currently about halfway through Oathbringer. I've made an observation that I think is meant to be there. It seems like in most fantasy series it is easy to hate the evil enemy (WoT for example: You despise the forsaken and the Shadowspawn forces because they are ruining the Main characters' lives) but in Stormlight I find myself loathing the Alethi and kind of rooting for the Parshendi. Obviously, the Alethi Culture is messed up and totally inefficient, but after reading a Moash point of View chapter with the normal Parshendi, I feel that they could run a better civilization than the Alethi ever could. Now I know this probably won't work out due to the control of the Fused, but I still like the Parshendi better than the Alethi. It is made clear that the Alethi suck, but I haven't really gotten a sense of hatred for the Parshendi. The only thing they have done is try to prevent desolations, which kinda makes them the protagonist right? So I just wanted to make this post to get input about this and see how others feel.

So I bet there is another thread talking about this, but I just couldn’t find it anywhere. so the set had these weird Kandra, if I recall correctly. It seemed kind of obvious that they weren’t really Kandra and most likely agents from another shard. They had red eyes, I believe, which points toward odium. But red is also just corrupted investiture, right? So just one of the bad shards. Which leaves as far as we know odium and autonomy, because ruin is obviously a no go. There have been many theories on what is attacking scaldrial in mistborn era 2 but I think it’s up in the air, right? There’s red mist in the cosmere cognitive realm map during stormlight archive 1-5 time, which many have assisiated with odium. But Taldain and scaldrial have a lot of worldhoppers going back and forth, which is why Trell is in both white sand and mistborn era 2, meaning autonomy is also a fair bet. did I hit what we currently are in a consensus of or am a missing or misunderstanding some parts? It is really hard to find any info regarding the strange Kandra, which is kind of irritating. I couldn’t find anything on the coppermind. given what we know, what are these strange Kandra? And who do they work for? also I hope I didn’t put any spoilers for other books. I’m fairly sure I did not, though.

Both The Reckoners and Skyward series are disconnected from the cosmere right? But what if they are linked to each other? The way Calamity viewed man kind reminds me a lot of how the Delvers viewed man kind. Calamity also said that he came from a peaceful place with much less stimuli. He also took on human form, so he used to be something else... Maybe he came from the nowhere? With multi dimensional elements added in, it could be a thing...right?

This is a theory I've been chewing on for a while but haven't wanted to post because I haven't had the time to put all the pieces together. Anyway, here goes: SPOILERS THROUGH RHYTHM OF WAR (I think) TLDR Ba Ado Mishram was the child of Honor and Cultivation, the common ground between singers and spren. The Heralds communed with her to some degree, perhaps tricking or trading with her, and she helped them access the Surges. This violated the agreement between the human refugees that bound them in Shinovar and forbade them to use the Surges (in the eyes of the singers at least) - and was the initial spren betrayal the Fused speak of. In retaliation, the singers went to Odium and became the Fused, sparking the first Desolation. The Heralds went to Honor and forged the Oathpact to enable them to fight the Fused and seal them in Braize. In the course of the war, the Fused were able to help Odium Unmake Mishram into Ba Ado Mishram. This is the singer betrayal the spren speak of, which led to many spren mimicing what Honor had done with the Heralds, and the beginning of the Radiants. Cultivation and Honor then had another child, this time made to represent the common ground between humans and spren - Mishram's younger Sibling. A lot of the evidence I've based this on from the text is drawn from the two in-world myths in the title, 'Queen Tsa and the cleverest of the three moons' and 'The Girl Who Looked Up". If you want to get into the weeds, keep reading. Myths of Roshar Firstly, we need to be establish the connection between these two tales, so let's look at what both of the myths are about: The tale of Queen Tsa is a story about a woman who escapes the bounds set forth for her and her people by travelling to the heavens. She is aware that going to the heavens is forbidden for mortals, but still she ascends (by tricking the green moon Mishim to trade places with her). She eventually returns to the world, however she is carrying the child of Nomon, the blue moon god of her people. Her son bears the "mantle of the heavens" and she believes he will lead her people to glory. The tale of The Girl Who Looked Up is a story about a young woman who escapes the bounds set forth for her and her people by travelling beyond the Wall. She is aware that going beyond the Wall is forbidden for her people, but still she ascends. She looks over the wall to and sees God's Light. She returns to the world, but first she steals a piece of God's Own Light and flees back home with it. As a result, the storms start coming - but her people now have Light. My conclusion is probably quite obvious by now... Queen Tsa is The Girl Who Looked Up Or, at least, the two represent the same person/people. While Queen Tsa may be an actual historical figure in Roshar, it's important to remember that Hoid - ancient, magical Hoid - is the one telling the tale.. And he's not above exercising artistic license when he wants to. Hoid is also the teller of the second iteration of the Girl Who Looked Up not long after this scene, the version which includes the Girl's people having "light renewed." (Oathbringer, 82) If that doesn't convince you, here are a few of the symbolic ties between Tsa and the Girl. i) Looking Up Like the Girl, Tsa quite literally spends her story looking up at the heavens and hatching her scheme to get there: she is literally a girl who looks up. Both Tsa and the Girl are warned against their quest: The Queen herself says that all know the eyes of mortals would burn at the sights, their minds run mad at the language of the heavens. The Girl questions several people on the Wall and is told: "There is a wall. Do not go beyond it, or you shall die.” (Oathbringer, 25) Both the Girl and the Queen reach for the sky: The Girl by climbing the "high, terrible wall stretching toward the moons. Blocking the sky..." (Oathbringer, 25) The Queen by designing "high towers for her city, built to reach ever upward, grasping toward the sky." (Oathbringer, 67) ii) Turning White In the myth of the Girl at the point at which she starts climbing the Wall, Shallan notices that the Girl's hair is white, and is unsure if it had always been. Brandon has stated there is some significance to this. In the story of Tsa, the Queen is represented in Hoid's smoke by a white tower while Mishim is represented by a green moon. Once they trade places however, Shallan notes that: "the moon had become white, and the single straight tower he made by swiping up in the smoke was instead pale green." (Oathbringer, 67) In both stories, the transition/appearance of white occurs after the protagonist sets out on their journey to the other side. iii) The Red Scarf In the myth of the Girl, we are told: "a vibrant red scarf grew around the girl’s neck, twin tails extending far behind her". (Oathbringer, 25) The significance of this scarf is hard to see until you look into the history of the scarf itself. It originated in Ancient Egypt and was worn by Queen Nefertiti. I think this is meant to draw yet another symbolic connection between the Girl and Queen Tsa, as she too wears the mantle of a Queen. As for the colour red, more on that later.* Lastly, when Shallan finds Hoid telling the story of Queen Tsa and the three moons in Kholinar: "He was dressed, strangely, in a soldier’s uniform—Sadeas’s livery, with the coat unbuttoned and a colored scarf around his neck." (Oathbringer, 67) iv) The Crime Both the Girl and the Queen commit a crime (or at least something that is viewed in world as morally wrong) once they reach the other side. The Queen breaks her promise not to look upon the sights of the heavens: "Tsa! Your word is broken!" (Oathbringer, 67) The Girl steals a piece of God's Light. v) The Light Both return home with a keepsake from the other side. The Girl returns to her village with the piece of God's Light, bringing with her the storms. We are told that the Light once taken could not be put back and that "each storm brought light renewed" and [of her people] "now they could see". In other words, her people now had Light eternal thanks to her gambit. The Queen carries a child of Nomon, one of the gods, who bears the "mantle of the heavens". The story elaborates that all descendants of this son bear this mantle (the blue skin) - or you could say all of her people now bear the mantle of the heavens. Symbolically, heaven's mantle usually refers to the stars themselves - or starlight. So all of her people now bear the Light of the heavens after her gambit. So if these two stories are about the same characters and events, what are they about? Who do they represent? We know of the history of the human refugees led by the Heralds, who were bound in Shinovar and likely warned against tampering with the Surges after the destruction of their home planet. We know that the First Desolation was sparked by some sort of betrayal by the spren involving the humans: "The betrayal of spren has brought us here/They gave their Surges to human heirs" (Words of Radiance, 28) Who is Queen Tsa/The Girl representing? What about Mishim, God's Light, the child of Nomon and Tsa? The Heralds & Ba Ado Mishram 1) The people of Tsa's kingdom = the people of the village = human refugees from Ashyn The Village and the world are both the strictly designated areas of the denizens of Tsa and the Girl's world, and they are forbidden to leave it. From what we know of the original Ashynite refugees, this is exactly what Shinovar was to them: humans were supposed to stay in the grassy, earth-like area designed for them - to this day the Shin curse stonewalkers ( the rest of Roshar is basically stone and crem). Another parallel is found in the fact that the people in the Girl's village lived in darkness - there was no Light. In much the same way, Shinovar is known to have no spren, and the ancient human refugees had no bonds to Rosharan spren - no Investiture - no Light. However, this story is not purely a physical one - much like the history of Roshar was not. 2) The City/World = The Village = Shinovar/the minds of men Queen Tsa's home city/the whole world parallels the village the girl lives in: the Village is described as being in the shadow of the great Wall - one villager says it's not a wall: "That’s just the way the sky is over there.” (Oathbringer, 25) The Wall is so huge the villagers almost seem to live beneath it, in the same way Tsa and her people live literally below the heavens. And while the humans did literally expand out of Shinovar into Roshar, but the rest of the tale - the theft of Light, the mantle of the heavens - doesn't quite add up with any purely physical objects in Rosharan history. We have known since Words of Radiance that the ancient singers felt the spren had betrayed them. This has been expanded on in subsequent books as we know the singers manipulated the Surges - using Stoneshaping etc. - and had some sort of bonds with the spren like all native Rosharan life. That ancient betrayal that sparked the war, and a cycle of betrayals. The spren betrayal, in the listener's words was that: "They gave their Surges to human heirs" (Words of Radiance, 28) We also know how spren bonds work now - human minds are linked to spren, which pulls them into the Physical Realm through the Connection. It is a meeting of minds that grants spren presence in the Physical Realm in exchange for granting humans Surges. This is why I believe the darkness the people of the Girl's village is representative of Cognitive darkness - the humans had no access to the Surges, to Stormlight - they lived in darkness. For further evidence we can look to the singers in this tale. 3) The creatures who lived beyond the Wall = the singers "She climbed down the steps...she hid among the creatures who lived on this side." (Oathbringer, 82) There are creatures who live beyond the wall, in "God's Light" (Oathbringer, 82) unlike the Girl's people living in the land of shadows. On the Physical level, this is accurate with what we know of Rosharan history - the ancient singers lived in Roshar, filled with spren and Investiture while the humans lived in earth-like Shinovar. It also tallies with what we've heard about the bonds between men and spren vs those between singers and spren.These realms are meant to represent the minds of men and singers respectively: at this point in time, humans had no Connection to the spren of Roshar - there was a barrier between their minds and those of the spren. Singers however, cannot provide what the humans can: The spren betrayed us, it's often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can't provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men (Words of Radiance, 32) According to this, the ancient spren betrayed the singers because singers minds were too close to their realm (Shadesmar), and the sapient spren desired more: human connection. Much as we are told that Mishim "doesn’t want to be in the sky" and longs to come down among mortals and do all the things "she had watched from afar" (Oathbringer, 67). As for Nomon, in the tale we see how Mishim's brothers enjoy the company of Tsa, in a way they never seemed to with Mishim. This seems to parallel the sentiments of the singers as they realise the humans - like Queen Tsa - have more to offer the spren than they do; this suggests Nomon himself represents the spren. As for Mishim...more on that later/ 4) Queen Tsa = The Girl Who Looked Up = The Heralds Now, if the setting is ancient Shinovar then while the Girl/Queen of the people could represent an actual queen, she more likely represents the leaders of the humans living in Shinovar: the Heralds. After all, it is the Girl who is responsible for stealing the piece of God's Light, the coming of the storms, and "tearing down the wall" (Oathbringer, 25). In the RoW Nale visions, we see what is presumably the forging of the Oathpact (as it is the earliest vision). In it, Jezrien and Ishar invite Nale to take some charge, a duty that he accepts with honor - the Oathpact. Jezrien claims, "We will fix what we've broken." (Rhythm of War, 47) This seems to indicate that Jezrien and Ishar - at least - were responsible for starting the Desolations. We also infer that Nale was opposed to whatever Jezrien and Ishar did that "broke" something and started the war, as Jezrien claims he was correct all along. Let's combine this with what we already know about the start of the Desolations: 1) The spren betrayed the singers by giving their "Surges to human heirs" 2) The humans betrayed the singers in some way involving the spren "they were a people forlorn, without a home...their betrayal extended even to our gods: to spren, stone, and wind." (Oathbringer, 111) 3) Some of the Heralds were responsible for breaking something, which started the Desolations So what did the ancient humans break? We know the Heralds were their leaders, and that squares with Jezrien's reference to what they broke when talking to Nale. In the story of the Girl, she steals a piece of God's Light. This leads to the breaking of the wall, the barrier between the land of shadows and the land of Light - and the Storms come as a punishment. It seems that the Heralds - the ancient humans - violated their agreement, they broke their word. "Tsa! Your word is broken!" (Oathbringer, 67) The Heralds broke their word by (in the eyes of the Fused) stealing the spren/Surges, breaking the barrier between men and spren and, which led to the Desolations. The Girl crossed the barrier between lands and stole Light, which led to the Wall being torn down and the Storms coming as punishment. After breaking their Pact with the singers, Jezrien and Ishar hatched a plan to forge a new one that might fix what they had ruined.= 5) The Sky = Beyond the Wall = Roshar/Shadesmar It follows that the Heavens and the land beyond the Wall are one and the same. The land beyond the Wall is illuminated by God's Light, which seems to tally with the heavens which are lit by starlight - and also the presence of the gods Nomon and Salas. 6) Tsa & Nomon's Child = The Piece of God's Light = Surges Both the Girl and the Queen journey to the 'Other Side' and return with something: the Girl steals a piece of God's Light, which she brings to her people providing Light eternal - "each storm brought light renewed, for it could never be put back, now that it had been taken." (Oathbringer, 82) The Queen returns to her land pregnant with Nomon's child, and gives birth to a son who will lead her people. He is said to bear "the mantle of the heavens" meaning the blue skin of Natanatan which mimics the blue light of Nomon's moon. In the story, Nomon is a god however; that blue light is God's light, one that his son carries. We are also told that "that is why to this day, the people of Natanatan have skin of a faintly blue shade.": Queen Tsa's people bear God's Light to this day. The key difference between the two tales is how this is obtained: the Girl steals a piece of God's Light, whereas Nomon seems to have delighted in Tsa's company - that was no theft. The only victim in the tale of Tsa is Mishim; she is the one who is tricked by Queen Tsa, she is the one who experiences "Loss." (Oathbringer, 67) She experiences the loss of "Nomon's kindness" (Oathbringer, 67): the loss of her bond with her brothers. To experience loss is to have something taken away: the Girl steals God's Light; the Queen steals God's affection. So what is God's Light? What is this thing that The Girl/Tsa/the Heralds stole? It's pretty clear, given what Light is in the real (cosmere) world - Investiture. Bonds. Or, as a Rosharan might say, Surges. These two stories - taken as one tale about the Heralds - rhyme very well with in-world canon we know, which I alluded to earlier. Let's take the two stories, strip them of their figurative facade and see what we're left with. To recap: Queen Tsa = The Girl = The Heralds The World = The Village/land of shadows = Shinovar/minds of men creatures beyond the wall = ? = singers Nomon = God's Light = spren Nomon's son = Piece of God's Light = Surges Storms = Desolations Mishim = ? = ? So, the Heralds lived and led the humans Shinovar, and were strictly forbidden from venturing beyond Shinovar and their minds from Connecting with spren and accessing Surges. Despite the warnings of some of their peers, the Heralds decide to breach the barrier between men and spren. They trick Mishim (?) into helping them access the Surges. Mishim feels betrayed by the Heralds, and claims that they broke their word. The damage is done, and the barrier between the minds of men and the spren is broken. The Desolations start as a result of this. However, every Desolation brings back the light renewed* (in this case I believe it alludes to the fact that the Heralds return with each Desolation/storm). So who is Mishim in the cosmere, this mysterious being that allowed the Heralds to access the Surges (a piece of God's Light)? Where is she in the story of the Girl Who Looked Up? We know that Mishim was the victim of loss in Tsa's story, so we simply have to look for a similar victim in the Girl's story: who did the Girl steal God's Light from? There are 2 answers to that question. 1) God's Light ("girl in the scarves slipping up to the grand source of light, then breaking off a little piece in her hand." (Oathbringer, 82) 2) The creatures beyond the Wall (aka the singers) The second is the easiest to comprehend: it fits with what we know of the lore. The Heralds/ancient humans stole (in the eyes of the singers) the Surges/Connection to Rosharan spren from the ancient singers - this is the betrayal that started the Desolations. It also works if we insert the singers in the tale of Tsa: Mishim (the singer) is jealous of Tsa's connection with her brothers Nomon and Salas: "‘Feasting?’ Her siblings had never feasted with her before." (Oathbringer, 67) "‘Songs?’ Her siblings had never sung with her before." (Oathbringer, 67) "Mishim...now knew another mortal emotion. Loss." (Oathbringer, 67) Mishim is jealous of and betrayed by the human Tsa's Connection with Nomon in the same way the singers are jealous of and betrayed by humans Connection to spren, whose "meat is men" . Tsa offers Nomon companionship that Mishim cannot, singing and feasting with him - just as the humans offer what the singers cannot: "We can't provide what the humans lend" (Words of Radiance, 32) The first is a bit murkier, but also makes sense with cosmere mechanics. You might ask how you can steal from a being made of God's Light, or how a piece of that being could grant one Surges. But we do have sapient beings made of 'God's Light' (Investiture), with whom a Connection can grant access to Surgebinding: spren. How can these two answers coexist? How can the Heralds have taken the Connection to Rosharan spren from a spren and taken it from the singers? Simple: Mishim was a spren who represented the Connection between the singers and the spren. We know that such spren can exist from Rhythm of War, because that is exactly what the Sibling is: "My song...the common ground, the Sibling said. Between humans and spren. That is … that is why I was created." (Rhythm of War, 110) The Sibling is the child of Honor and Cultivation, made to be the emulsifier between humans and spren. If Honor and Cultivation created such a being for the humans, is it not possible that they did the same aeons before? Either that, or they found the spren already in existence - the singers being native to Roshar, it is possible that such a spren arose naturally. If it didn't, if this mysterious elder spren was indeed born of Honor and Cultivation, then the spren made by Honor and Cultivation to bridge the gap between spren and humans is not the only child - he is the Sibling. A last piece of evidence - the chapter with the tale of Queen Tsa is titled 'Mishim' and begins with this epigraph: "This generation has had only one Bondsmith, and some blame the divisions among us upon this fact." (Oathbringer, 67) We know now that this was the Sibling's Bondsmith, which seems appropriate for a chapter revealing lore about the character I believe to have been its predecessor. Let's turn back to the tale of Tsa and apply this new knowledge: at the end of the story, Mishim hears a new song which she recognises as the song of Nomon's child with Tsa . She feels loss - a spren that represents the Connection between singers and spren experiences the loss of light at the hands of the humans. This works perfectly as symbolism for the singers ancient loss and betrayal. However, it still leaves us with one final question: who is/was Mishim? Who was this great spren of Connection, that represented the Connection of the minds of the entire singer species to the spren? Hmmmm.... "Ba-Ado-Mishram...Connected herself to the entire singer species." (Rhythm of War, 73) "Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people," (Oathbringer, 80) 7) Mishram = Mishim The first and most obvious connection here is the similarity of the two names Mishim/Mishram. Beyond this, let's look at everything we know about Ba Ado Mishram from the books: i) The Heralds know Ba Ado Mishram personally: "please find Mishram and release her. Not just for her own good. For the good of all spren." (Rhythm of War, 97) NOTE: Kalak calls her 'Mishram', not 'Ba Ado Mishram' as the Fused, Sja-Anat and other Voidspren do. ii) She is consistently described as crafty/cunning/intelligent: "Ba-Ado-Mishram, who had granted forms to the singers during the False Desolation—were crafty and conniving." (Rhythm of War, I-2) "She is said to have been keen of mind, a highprincess among the enemy forces" (Oathbringer, 106) iii) She is trapped in a prison (the gem) and presumably wants to escape. Now lets look at how Mishim, the green moon is described: i) "the third moon is the cleverest." (Oathbringer, 35) ii) "she doesn’t want to be in the sky, sir. She wants to escape." (Oathbringer, 35) iii) "everybody knows that Mishim—the third moon—is the most clever and wily of the moons.” (Oathbringer, 35) iv) "Mishim is always looking for a chance to escape her duty.” (Oathbringer, 67) v) “Everyone knows that Mishim is the cleverest of the three moons." (Oathbringer, 67) vi) "The queen was pious, but the moon was crafty." (Oathbringer, 67) [NOTE: Ishar is famously pious, and less famously crafty] vii) “As always, Mishim was hatching a scheme." (Oathbringer, 67) I find it too much of a coincidence that two characters with such similar names are consistently described with the same language. Furthermore, the characterisation of Mishim as a kind of rebel fits with what we know of Ba Ado Mishram, who led the singers in the False Desolation without Odium and the Voidspren. It also explains how and why Ba Ado Mishram was able to Connect herself to the minds of the entire singer species during the False Desolation. Her having been the spren of Connection between singers and spren, it makes sense that she would retain this capacity - and that binding her in the way they did would have some adverse effects on the singers: "Yes. That terrible act touched the souls of all who belong to Roshar. Spren too." (Rhythm of War, 49) "By capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram—locking her in a gemstone—humankind had stolen the minds of the singers in ancient times." (Rhythm of War, 24) Even the language of the Recreance in this quote seems to echo the myth of the Girl: humans stole God's Light from the minds of the singers. And Mishram, "though still crafty, has never again left her place." (Oathbringer, 67) Conclusion So that's my theory. Ba Ado Mishram - once called Mishram - was a spren who represented the common ground between singers and spren. The Heralds communed with her to some degree, perhaps tricking her, and this let them access the Surges. This act violated the agreement between the singers and the human refugees (in the eyes of the singers at least) - this was the initial spren betrayal the Fused speak of. In retaliation, the singers went to Odium and became the Fused, sparking the first Desolation. The Heralds in turn went to Honor and forged the Oathpact to enable them to fight the Fused and seal them in Braize. During the course of the war, Odium was able to Unmake Mishram, God's Own Light, into Bad Ado Mishram. This is the great singer betrayal that the spren speak of, that led to many spren mimicing what Honor had done with the Heralds, and the beginning of the Radiants. Finally, it is possible that Mishram was actually the first born child of Cultivation and Honor, created specifically to represent the bond between singers and spren. Centuries later, when the spren started making human Surgenbinders, Ishar came to Honor to help force order upon them (making the Radiant orders). At this point, Cultivation and Honor had another child, this time made to represent the common ground between humans and spren. They made the Sibling. If you made it this far thanks for reading, can't believe I actually typed this whole essay and someone actually read it. Excited for y'all to tear holes in it it!

Ok I am kind of shooting from the hip but these are my Contest of Champions predictions (again spoilers in case I’m right and ruin SA5): 1. Adolin will be Odium’s champion. Reread the scene of him killing Sadeas and tell me he can’t be swayed to Odium with the right push, quickly. Plus, Shallan is going to be a worldhopper and that moves forward a lot easier without her husband. 2. Ba-Ado-Mishram is going to be a factor in Adolin becoming Odium’s champion, maybe some cleverly selective info from Taravodium to manipulate his desire to restore Maya. I’m not sure on this but the info we have so far aligns BAM’s imprisonment with Maya’s potential restoration, and that would be very interesting to look at from Adolin’s prespective and anyone who knows about Maya (and who knows how many beings will have heard about the trial). 3. Dalinar will beat, but refuse to kill, Adolin and ultimately break the terms of the contest of champions and end up releasing Odium from the Rosharan system. We know there’s a greater war shaping up and Odium leaving Roshar works better in SA5 than SA10. Also, we have mention of men in gold and red outside of Roshar and Brandon has said those colors are the motif of Odium. It’s also something where we could see Dalinar questioning if some oaths are/should be more important than others. 4. Adolin is going to be removed from the main cast. I like the idea of him becoming a Fused more because of the ramifications that would have on the rest of the cast, particularly Shallan and Renarin (Shallan of course becoming a worldhopper, but Renarin in terms of defining corruption versus enlightenment). 5. BAM’s imprisonment might have been damaging to Roshar, but her release will set her up to be a (maybe inadvertent) big bad in the back 5. I don’t know, I’m just getting some previous cosmere book vibes and a greater war needs a drill sergeant on a certain Shard’s designated training ground. I’m probably wrong, but this makes the most sense to me with the info available. There’s plenty of clues, but Adolin’s corruption also serves foreshadowing for other characters too.

Dalinar takes up Honor He and Taravangian kill each other, leaving Honor and Odium without vessels Shallan takes up both and becomes Sarcasm When Shallan and Sazed meet, the Cosmere explodes in sarcastic harmony

Hello. I am concerned about those Listener Shanay-Im in RoW. Yes, there is a happy ending. However, in Oathbringer, that Fused named Turash disrespected Odium about Dalinar, and Odium threaten to remove his Investure on Turash, sending him to the beyond. What is stopping Todium from just killing all the Heavenly One Listeners by just removing his Investure, sending them to the Beyond?

Okay, so I’m taking a little from Jedi vs Knight Radiants here but what about Knight Radiants vs allomancers? 1) mistborn vs Knight Radiant 2) misting vs Knight Radiant 3) feruchemist vs Knight Radiant 4) twinborn vs Knight Radiant 5) fullborn vs Knight Radiant 6) Kelsier vs Kaladin (or some other high end Radiants like Dalinar) You can pick the specific orders/oath level and metals and as @Duxredux has pointed out, you pick all the undefined parameters. 7) Awakening vs Knight Radiant 8) any magic system vs any other (the best users seen so far against each other specifically) 9) order vs order

So I’ve read it all and I’ve listened to the podcasts and I’m trying to find new things to theorize and ponder on. Hit me with your favorite and/or craziest theories that have you excited right now! I’m looking for a new rabbit hole to explore while I wait for the new Wax and Wayne book to come out haha any and all spoilers welcome! Pretty sure I’ve read everything Cosmere related at this point so if I don’t know it already it’s my own fault for not paying close enough attention lol

So I had this theory just pop into my head as I was reading and it basically is this: Will Syl eventually choose to be enlightened by Sja-anat to better understand emotion? So far all the spren of Roshar have been of Honor and Cultivation and recently, some, touched by Odium. Odium is described as passion and emotion so it makes sense that his power would help sapient spren to better understand emotion, especially in humans. Syl has expressed a desire to better understand Kaladin and his emotions, even going to Dalinar for help. Would not then, she go to Sja-anat to become more than just of Honor and Cultivation? Maybe even Odium? We know that Odium is not going anywhere now and that he is now a part of Roshar so would it be wrong to assume that spren will start being influenced by his power? What are your guys thoughts on this? Am I completely wrong?

So I haven't really seen any pages talking about what people think will happen in the cosmere in the later eras, specifically the space/sci-fi. I recently just read a very interesting WOB that I believe is not canon but could show us Sanderson's plans or ideas for the future. (spoiled for length) (Underlined Bold is mine for most important parts) So long story short, Scadrial and Roshar seem to be in some sort of a conflict and both want control of the Avier. Their ship uses Allomancy to fly, and the Knight Radiant is a Skybreaker and has learned of a way to make a gun from their spren that can use an external ammo. What are your thoughts and predictions? Why would they be fighting, who do you think would win, etc. Also, do you think that their respective planets will be united or not? And will the other planets take sides or form their own factions?

It took me a while to finish the series, but I finally did! Stayed up until almost 3am because I couldn't put it down. Once again, was not disappointed! I pride myself in being able to catch on to the plot, and figure things out quickly, but I was never ahead of David. I figured it out as he did, I messed it up when he did, etc. It's so refreshing to have books that I can't predict. Sanderson writes it so perfectly, that when you finally figure it out, it feels obvious because there were all these hints and signs, but they didn't make sense until that moment. I know it's a young adult series, but his writing is so intelligent that I didn't feel like I was reading a YA novel. I stopped reading the later Percy Jackson books because they started feeling too young for me. I had just gotten too old for them to grab my attention in the same way. No such issues with Reckoners. It's nowhere near as complicated as Mistborn, but it's no 'dumbed down'. There's just a little less to the magic system, but even then, he didn't simplify the magic system so much that you couldn't figure it out quickly! So yeah, that's my praise of the Reckoners Trilogy. I have the whole of the Cosmere to read next.

I'm a new user, so please excuse any formatting errors and such. If I'm doing something wrong let me know. If this thread already exists somewhere please direct me there, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't have a dedicated thread. Anyway, I recently learned of a WoB vaguely connecting the Unmade to each Radiant Order, with the exception of Bondsmiths: I was thinking about it, and even though there might not be a direct correlation, if we could connect each known Unmade to a Radiant Order we may be able to discern some secrets about the two we haven't seen yet, or figure out some more secrets about the ones we've seen already. Here's what I've come up with so far: Re-Shephir = Lightweavers (Because of the history of Re-Shephir's capture and the events in Oathbringer and their abilities) Sja-Anat = Elsecallers (Because of a strong connection to Shadesmar) Nergaoul = Dustbringers (Because of a tendency for destruction) Moelach = Truthwatchers (Because corrupted Renarin saw the future) These are all the connections I've come up with. I'm honestly not sure about any of these except Re-Shephir. None of these are good connections, though I guess from the WoB there's not likely to be strong connections in the first place. Any thoughts guys? You all seem like smart people.

Mistborn vs jedi Fun idea, 4 pages of constant arguing much fun. now let’s bring it over here 1) each order of radiant 1v1 a Jedi (use averages not kaladin, or anakin) 2) each order 1v1 a sith 3) a person swallows Yelig-nar and must fight a Jedi with no practice 4) a person is practiced with yelig-nar but the Jedi is aware of the abilities (to make it fair) 5) the best of the best from both sides face off who wins 6) radiants vs droid army who wins, why? bonus round! Regular shardbearer vs padawan ground rules: 1a) lightsabers and shardblades bounce off each other, as per a WoB that I’m sure @Frustration can provide. 1b) sense shardblades and plate are made of nearly the same stuff, plate will react as being hit with a blade when struct with a lightsaber. 2) no fighting in one universe or the other, 3rd party world for our entrainment. (This doesn’t include how the force might work within the cosmer discussions) 3) give reason why/why not one side would win. ex: limited stormlight, higher durability, better healing

Theory: Hoid is not as good as you thought he was! Hoid has been roaming the Cosmere since the beginning of time, encouraging the main characters usually by way of storytelling and using his skills as an Awakener. Loyal fans will know that he was one of the group that shattered Adonalsium into the 16 Shards. He was offered a chance to become the Vessel of one of the Shards. However, he chose not to and in that way, gained something even more important than power: freedom. He was not bound by the rules of Shards and was free to influence events in the Cosmere as much as he liked. One of the first hints at his master plan comes early in Stormlight, in the Way of Kings, in chapter 54 on page 933. "... 'Adonalsium' Dalinar frowned more deeply. 'What?' Wit searched his face. 'Have you ever heard the term, Dalinar?'" This short exchange gives context for what Hoid says soon after: "'Ado-what?' 'Nothing,' Wit said. He seemed preoccupied, unlike his normal self. 'Nonsense. Balderdash. Figgldygrak. Isn't it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched into something like them–yet wholly unlike them at the same time?' Dalinar frowned. 'I wonder if you could do that to a man. Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Amian.'..." This hints at Hoid's secret plan: To kill all the current Shards and assemble them back together into a new Adonalsium, with himself holding the power. Hoid had planned this all since the death of Adonalsium. I hope everyone enjoys this theory

So at the end of AoL, Marsh delivers Spook's book to Marasi, which informs her, as well as Wax and Wayne, of the existence of Hemalurgy. I've just been rereading HoA and realized that Sazed wrote about Hemalurgy in the epigraphs of the book. Those epigraphs were part of the books that he left the founders of the new world. So why wouldn't Hemalurgy be widely know about in Era 2 already?

To the tune of "Survivor" by Destiny's Child.... the Kesier edition! If you are like me, you probably need to play the actual song and think/say/sing the lyrics below to see how it fits (Warning, spoilers for all things Kelsier and Cosmere...Enjoy!) Let me know what you think or if you have any fun/cool edits! Also, anyone particularly gifted in the singing of songs and such that would want to turn this into something that can actually be listened to? haha

Cultivation doesn't have a goal or an endgame. She wants to guide everyone and everything to be the best version of themselves. What does "best" mean here? Whatever the subject thinks it does. The alethi (as a group) think the best version of themselves have to be the best warriors. Taravangian thinks his best version is to have the capacity to stop what is coming. His stated goal is not to stop it....just to have the capacity to do so. Seems to me that the vessel of Odium has the capacity to stop what odium is doing. He's new, and the shardic intent won't begin to consume him for centuries, maybe millenia. And yet. Will he stop it? Taravangian's arc is over. Taravangian got what he wanted. TOdium's arc has just begun and we have no idea what He will do next.

Hello everyone, It has come to my attention that my opinion that Jasnah and Wit are perfect for each other is very... Unpopular. So, if there is anyone out there like me who actually ships the two, please, let me know, so I am not alone in my belief. Hopefully I am not the only person who has read the Stormlight Archive who ships them. (Please don't murder me for supporting the relationship, Jasnahoid dislikers.)