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Am I the only one who thinks that The knights radiant will lead an attack against khabranth once they find out Who the new Odium is and lose the contest of champions?

We are all aware odium has splinteded at least 3 shards (ambition, devotion, dominion) and didn't pick them up because he didn't want to corrupt his own? What id like to ask is what would the combined shard of odium, devotion, dominion and ambition be called? In this scenario he still killed those 3 but chose to take up the shards anyway, ignoring the 'no corruption' but he had originally Lemme know your thoughts!

Question. I was reading the coppermind, and read that Odium fears Harmony. While I understand why that would be the case, what I don't get is how he knows about harmony, since they are in different systems. Also timelines I guess? Idk if the current SA timeline corresponds with Mistborn Era 2.

So, yesterday I finished a re-read of Rhythm of War, and then today wrapped up my annual re-watch of the Lord of the Rings film trilogy (if the username didn't clue you in, I'm a fan;) - like the books better, but enjoy the movies too). It got me thinking of Taravangian's ascension and his plans to use Odium's power to 'save everyone' and it reminded me of a quote from Tolkien's letters about what might have happened if Gandalf had been corrupted by the Ring. "Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)." A bit later, he added that "Sauron multiplied... evil, but he left good distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil." Now, Taravangian's no Gandalf (he's more like Saruman in some ways, 'his feet were on a crooked path,' though IMO the Cosmere's closest parallel to Saruman is probably actually Ishar - though that would be a topic for another post) but the way Odium!Taravangian and Ringlord!Gandalf are described makes them seem somewhat similar in motivation and action, and when you throw in Harmony's letter talking about how he most feared the combination of Odium's power and intent with a mind saner and more cunning than Rayse (who would be Sauron in this analogy)... yeah. Brrr. Not really a super insightful analogy, considering the LotR characters obviously aren't part of the Cosmere, but it did make me think of exactly how Odium's new Vessel is shaping up to be far more dangerous than the old one.

There's a voice In oathbringer that claims venli and saves her from becoming a fused. At first I thought this voice was odium. But after reading Row I'm not so sure. Could it be a void Spren? If so dose that mean tha Venli was a great void Spren in her jem heart? Any thoughts on the voice? Is it odium or spen or something else?

Hi all! I have never joined a forum and I might be doing this wrong. Forgive me if this is the wrong section to post this but I am desperate and clueless. I have for some time been trying to locate the symbol for Raysium (god metal for Odium). Please point me to the right place to look, as I desperately want Raysium as a tattoo. Thank you all in advance for the help! Daniel

In the final few chapters before taravangian became odium. Odium told taravangian "I have lost my champion again" who did odium lose as his champion?

So, this is something that has been bugging me for a while. In the epigraphs of the Way of Kings (possibly WoR, I haven’t checked ‘cause I’m lazy) it says that Odium is the most dangerous of the 16 Shards. So, if Odium is the antagonist of the Stormlight Archive, then who will be the antagonist of the greater Cosmere plot? The answer: Odium himself. Let me explain. It has been established that Odium is raising an army to fight in a “greater war.” Whether Taravangian is continuing this plot is a matter of debate, but for the purpose of this theory, I’ll assume he is. It seems like Taravangian would want to rule the cosmere so that he could “save” it. So, I believe either KoW or SA 10 will end with Odium being freed from Roshar and going to go raise his army somewhere else during the time between SA and Era 4 Mistborn. It would be a nice ending for the SA characters, but it would leave loose ends for Era 4 to tie up. Let me know if I missed anything obvious. Or, if you have any thoughts that might help me expand on this.

My apologies if someone’s talked about this before, but I didn’t find it in a search. What’s going on when Kaladin is fighting the Pursuer after Teft dies? Stormlight powered Surgebinders are left unconscious and drained, even after Lift wakes them up with Lifelight. The the Pursuer attacks Kaladin directly going against Moash’s (Odium’s?) orders, and then Kaladin gets a power up. Not through Ideals, not through Stormlight or the bond with Syl, but through...something else? His eyes glow “yellow / red”. Red is Odium / Voidlight, but what does the yellow represent? How is a human using Voidlight, if he is? Is Odium tempting him with power to corrupt Kaladin from within? Was it driving a wedge between Kaladin and Syl, causing her to become more distant up until the Fourth Ideal was sworn? It actually reminded me of Amaram after he swallowed the Unmade at the end of Oathbringer.

So I’ve seen it thrown around that if Dalinar breaks the Contract Odium can free himself So what is everyone’s thoughts on that; Would it work? If it did what if someone like Jasnah broke the Contract? And what if Dalinar appointed someone to break it for him I would put this in Q&A but it’s an RoW spoiler Hope to see everyone’s thoughts!

So, based on a short discussion shardcast had in their last episode about moash hating humans and hating lighteyes, and thinking that maybe moash won't like Taravodium, I had a sudden image of, near the end of book 5, moash killing taravangian and taking up odium himself. Think about it for a minute. Moash as odium. Loose in the cosmere. I have no idea how likely it is, but it's a terrifying thought.

I'm curious to know Odium is able to sense Moash's thoughts and take away his pain, basically influencing him. I thought shards are only able to hear thoughts and influence their subjects only by hemalurgy, something we saw in the mistborn books. Also, Odium is wounded from the battles with Ambition, Honor, Dominion, and Devotion, and he's confined to Braize, so I'm not sure how he affects and influences his followers so strongly. It seems unlikely that Odium is aware of Hemalurgy, so is it just about being willing to give in to his rule, such as what he tried to do with Dalinar, or singers with voidspren in their gemhearts?

This is a place to discuss any and all theories about who Odium’s champion for the contest of champions with Dalinar will be. To get you started, here are my thoughts on the topic. (This might run a little long, so I’ll put it in a spoiler box):

So we're ten days in the universe away from the big headliner event, with Odium/Dalinar. I'm really interested in hearing what everyone thinks the outcome will be because whatever it will be will set the stage for the back half. No matter what Odium is re-bound, but we still have 5 more books of Roshar plot left. The way I see it there are three options. 1) Dalinar wins. Odium goes back to Braize and the coalition regains Alethkar/Herdaz. In this universe, I see the main conflict of the back half being the question of what will happen to the Singers and what the role of the Knights Radiant is now that the Odium is re-bound. Sanderson could use this to highlight that not all problems are caused by the literal personification of hatred sitting on the system and force the Singers and the Humans to confront the atrocities they've wrought in the past. 2) Odium wins. Fused forces keep their control over most of Roshar and Odium gains Dalinar's soul. This is a much darker world for our protagonists but I think it sets up a more focused back half. It becomes much more crucial that they come to terms the fused and to find a way to find some sort of compromise for everyone who lives on Roshar. I think it could try really neatly into what we've seen with the growth and recovery with some other Heralds and Unmade and the 'sympatheic' fused like Leshwi/Rabonial. 3) Chaos reigns. Someone (Cultivation, Hoid, Kelsier, the Stick, etc.) figures out how to break the contest and a totally unexpected result happens. This is the most unpredictable and unlikely ending but there is some basis for it. Both Odium and the Heralds figure out multiple 'loopholes' in the Oathpact, so even bondsmith/Honor deals aren't infallible. What's everyone else guess/thoughts/ideas?

After watching the last few Shardcasts, I decided to play with @Argent's idea that Voidbinding might be about accessing the power of Odium directly, not about accessing Surges. It actually led to some interesting conclusions, which I'll try to present below Voidbinding doesn't use Surges The basic premise, obviously. There are some reasonable arguments that support this idea: The Knight Radiant, the Fused and fabrials all use Surges. Surges were also what destroyed Ashyn. Despite their ubiquity, we have not a single description of Voidbinding that mentions them explicitly. We only know about the ten levels and the existence of “Voidbindings”, whatever they are. Khriss is also unsure how they fit into the whole Orders/Surges/Essences paradigm Voidbinding is a cousin of Old Magic, which isn't Surge-based Renarin's futuresight isn't necessarily a Surge. He does have access to a separate, distinct version of Illumination, while his visions match what Tanavast says about his own futuresight (also, Renarin seems to see things that are of interest to Odium, not random visions). It seems possible that Renarin is accessing the Shardic power directly, rather then filtered through Surges In this WoB, Brandon describes futuresight as “dangerous territory, and drawing upon a Shard” The futuresight is described as “the soul of Voidbinding”. It's the only Voidbinding power that is widely known. It stands to reason that it might not be available to a single Voidish “Order”, but to all Voidbinders, possibly forming the first level of the magic system Additionally, per Taravangian's word, all Unmade have some sort of access to futuresight, despite having other distinct powers and roughly matching the KR Orders. Given that, futuresight doesn't seem to be tied to any single Surge Comparison with the Metallic Arts Comparing Rosharan and Scadrian magic leads to some interesting analogies that might elucidate the nature of Voidbinding: Surgebinding corresponds to Allomancy/Feruchemy, with 10 Surges / Orders / KR Spren types fulfilling the same roles as 16 metals Fabrials correspond to ettmetal-based magitek Old Magic corresponds to lerasium, as both can be used by anyone to change their spiritweb Voidbinding, finally, has the same role as atium There are two important thing about atium that I believe are relevant here (besides the obvious fact of providing futuresight): Atium requires the power of another Shard to work. Without Allomancy, Feruchemy or some magical ability to steal via Hemalurgy, atium is useless Preservation tweaked Allomancy, so that atium could be used against Ruin I'm not sure if Voidbinding can exist as a fully standalone magic system; it might require some other power (typically Surgebinding) to work. Based on this WoB: I think that what is called Voidbinding might actually stem from Surgebinding hacked (e.g. via spren corruption) to give people non-Surge powers, to Odium's detriment. It would also explain the name “Voidbinding”, which doesn't sound like something Odium's followers would use The Voidbinding chart If that is the case, the Voidbinding chart isn't a Voidbinding chart per se; it's more like a Surebinding + Voidbinding chart. My current theory is that it might have originated on Ashyn, and its history might have been more or less like this: People were experimenting with Surges provided by Odium and his Voidspren, creating a chart that is extremely similar to the one for Rosharan Surgebinding, but with different Surges / Orders (e.g. “Voidish” Illumination would be Renarin's balls of light) Two “Orders”, Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers, turn out to be special though: both have access to the Surges with the most Spiritual aspects they kind of match Dawnshards quite well: one on them can bind people and spren, which seems very Bondsmith-like, and the Change Dawnshard is a “will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better”, which fits nicely with Renarin showing people their perfected selves Sja-Anat has a weird affinity for Truthwatchers and BAM started exhibiting Bondsmith-like powers during the False Desolation; both happen to provide Voidbinding abilities, to Signers and humans respectively I believe Bondsmiths and/or Truthwatchers might have been the ones to figure out that you can use the magic to tap Odium's power directly, likely with the help of the Dawnshards – which is why they are surrounded by a red gem on the chart and not connected to any Surges. Odium wasn't very happy about it, so he pushed them towards the planet's destruction. Voidbinding was left unused and partially forgotten, until some Unmade started experimenting with it again during the False Desolation, possibly given some knowledge by Cultivation or a Herald starting to go mad. BAM sudden unexplained powers might actually be our only hint at the higher levels of Voidbinding

In RoW, Venli mentions “Honor’s Moon” when referring to Nomon (the light blue moon). This got me thinking and I went onto Coppermind. Sure enough, we have a green moon (Mishim) and a violet moon (Salas). The same colours as the Lights. Is Mishim Cultivation’s Moon and Salas Odium’s Moon? It makes sense. Could each moon on Roshar be connected to a Shard?

At the end of RoW, Taravangian ascends to Odium and inherits quite a few memories and information from Rayse. Well, I don't know if it's Brandon's favoritism towards TOdium, but I don't understand why Taravangian inherits so much information, but Kelsier, Vin and Sazed don't inherit any information from each other's pre-Preservation vessel (Kelsier from Leras, Vin from Kelsier and Sazed from Vin). And the same case of Sazed with Ati. Maybe Kelsier doesn't inherit any information from Leras because the latter was slowly dying, but Vin should have inherited Kelsier's short-time memories as Preservation as well as Taravangian from Odium, and Sazed should have inherited Vin's memories and Ati when ascending, but it was not like that and it gives me a feeling of unevenness between the shards, despite the fact that Odium is somewhat hurt by his battles in the Cosmere, but Preservation and Ruin are intact despite the deaths of their original vessels.

In the deal with Dalinar there are a number of odd things going on with odium: 1) His skin could seemed to no longer contain his power. The gods eyes had gone completely golden as if they were chunks of metal in a statue's face why gold? why is he falling apart? why the comparison to a statue? 2) wit said he cant hurt you, not without breaking his word and inviting his own death. which happens later. 3) I am not going to break my word because if I did, it would create a hole in my soul which would let cultivation kill me. Which, arguably, is what happened 4) The use of the 10th hour of the 10th day - rosharin, non-odium numbers. This feels like Odium is under the influence of another, why not the 9th hour of the 9th day? It seems very much like Rayse broke an oath and was being influenced. What oath could he have broken?

I've seen some threads on Nightblood, but not this specific question. My apologies if its there and I missed it though poor search or it being buried form months ago. Odium(Rayse) pulls T and night blood into their "realm" (for lack of better word). T stabs Rayse/Odium with Nightblood. Nightblood is engorged on the sheer volume and stops feasting and becomes sated/lethargic. We know that Nightblood corrupts Investiture to some other investiture, which would effectively make what was corrupted unavailable to Odium(shard). I believe Nightblood killed Rayse and sucked his investiture, but a person doesn't have enough to sate Nighblood, so I (think) Nightblood HAD to eat/chew/corrupt some of the actual shards investiture too. Does this now leave Odium (even a smidge) weaker than before and than all other non shattered shards (since they all started with an even 1/16th)? Could Nightblood have done enough damage (that the new Todium is unaware of because he's new and not aware of power lvl 9000 before the event compared to his now power lvl 8500) that he's measurable weaker than other shards? Possibly in a way that will lead to his downfall later?

Now that Nightblood has consumed (what was left of) Rayse, do you think his personality will become more rayselike? Surely absorbing an entire Vessel will have a lasting effect on our favorite sword-nimi.

The text of RoW makes it sound like Rayse, the Vessel of Odium, was materially damaged by his plans not working out. Like Dalinar and Kaladin not becoming his champion actually hurt him in a way that made his death more likely. That's weird. The Shard vs. Shard battles did most of the damage and then being trapped for 7,000+ years probably didn't help. Rayse never embraced all aspects of the Shard. He prefers to be called passion and only says "they call me Odium". Compare that to Wit asking Mr. T who he is and he simply says "Odium". The Shard got frustrated, developing a mind of it's own. It's not been controlled well by Rayse, as Harmony theorized in an epigraph. Right after Dalinar turns him down in OB Rayse rants about "we killed you". I take the "we" to mean the Vessel and the Power since they aren't on the same page all the time and literally are two different minds. It gets way worse real quick only a year after Dalinar rejects him we see the Power trying to escape Rayse's body throughout RoW. I guess that was the last straw and the power is like "get me away from this loser". More generally, it's weird that a Vessel can take damage from "things not working out how you hoped". Which seems heavily implied by the quote. Is that what killed Tanavast? He thought the Heralds and the Oathpact would last forever and then the Heralds let the Fused out over and over until 9 of them quit altogether. Is that the damage he took that led to his death, people disappointing him? The coroner's report would say: "fatal case of being wrong" He was already dying when the Radiants quit according to the Stormfather in OB Ch. 38, did the Recreance finish him off? Or did all this weaken him allowing Odium to finish him off and splinter him? I can't decide if I like this idea or not. "My favorite football team missed the playoffs, ow!" *-10HP*

Adhesion is "the truest surge of Honor". Progression seems to be the equivalent for Cultivation, judging from Lift's experience. Is there a surge that is particularly close to Odium and why is it Division? *side-eyes the Skybreakers and Dustbringers* *side-eyes the name "Division* *side-eyes the most likely candidate for the Surge of Honey I Blew Up The Planet* Yeah, it's Division, isn't it?

This theory has been bouncing around in my head for a few weeks now, mostly revolving around Nikli's insistence that Rysn never become a Radiant and Honor's belief that the Dawnshards are lost to the Knights Radiant. Quotes from Honor: Assuming that the Dawnshard is mostly nonfunctional in a non-invested host, we have to wonder why the Sleepless didn't want Rysn to access that power and why Honor thought that the power of the Dawnshard was impossible for the Radiants to reach or more dangerous than Odium winning. There are lots of reasons I can think of that the Sleepless wouldn't want Rysn to gain power of the Dawnshard-- their mission goes beyond one planet and I could see Rysn's lack of power an acceptable loss. Honor is a little bit harder. I've seen people interpret the quote from Oathbringer as simply not trusting the Knights Radiant, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Why would he support them for years and then in his death throes suddenly flip and decide that the danger of them getting a Dawnshard was greater than the danger of Odium winning? The other quote complicates that further since he isn't talking about the danger of Dawnshards, but suggesting that the Dawnshards are beyond their reach. From the information we have, I can see two options: Either Honor's knowledge about the Dawnshards and the KR changed, or something about the Dawnshards themselves changed. If Honor didn't know where the Dawnshard was and thought it was no longer on-world, it could make sense that he believes the Dawnshards are lost to them, but it wouldn't explain why he was convinced that the KR would destroy Roshar with one. Since he already knew that the Dawnshard destroyed Adonalsium and Ashyn, it's hard to believe that there was some bit of knowledge about the Dawnshard's capabilities that would suddenly bump them up to "too dangerous." It is possible that something changed about the KR leading up to this, but there's no indication as to what. We know that they abandoned their Oaths believing it was the right thing to do, so it wasn't like they were corrupted or less honorable. In contrast, it is possible that something changed about the Dawnshard, and Odium's interference seems like the most likely reason. I find it less likely that he corrupted the Dawnshard itself, knowing how powerful it is, and more likely that he somehow set things up so that using the Dawnshard would trigger something Very Bad. [Rhythm of War Spoilers] This would explain Honor's sudden belief that the KR couldn't be trusted to use the Dawnshard without destroying Roshar and his statement that without the Dawnshards he had very few tools to help them. It would also give the Sleepless a further reason to not want Rysn or anyone else to have the power to wield the Dawnshard (although they might not even be aware of the trap). I don't think there's enough evidence to say that this is what happened, but a paucity of other explanations for Honor's behavior makes it seem like a strong possibilty. Any other thoughts on possible explanations? Any evidence I've forgotten that contradicts this?

So the Dawnshard novella just recently came out and it had some seriously juicy lore tidbits for all of us to chew on. I'm going to be putting my interpretation of it here along with what I think is a probable timeline of events involving the Dawnshards. Nature of the Dawnshards So Adonalsium gave four primal Commands that spawned the Dawnshards and created the Cosmere. We know that one of them is Change and that together all four were used to Shatter God himself. I'm thinking these Commands are similar to the Christian notion of "Let there be light" while the resulting Dawnshards are a sort of imprint on the world left by the Commands. If God turning on the lights was a boot, the Dawnshard is a boot print. I believe these four Commands were Change, Survive, Unite and Distinguish. I don't know if these are the actual names of the Dawnshards (I would be surprised if Distinguish was 100% correct) but the gist of it remains the same. These four are two sets of two that, while not exactly opposite, are in some respects opposed. None are negative or positive, they simply are. Change and Survive are opposed as survival requires a certain amount of stasis. Unite and Distinguish are opposed as Distinguish implies individuality and unity implies a certain common ground. The Shattering of Adonalsium I believe that at one point they were all combined into a single weapon that was used to Shatter Adonalsium and that Hoid was the one who actually holding the thing when it all went down, as is referenced by Hoid being both "Topaz" as well as the "Bearer of the First Gem" as well as the WoB's that we have stating that the weapon used to kill Adonalsium is drained and inoperable and that Hoid's immortality is derived from it. It's drained because the Dawnshards were removed from it and Hoid's immortality comes from Survive. From Nikli's line in the novella we know that wielding a Dawnshard makes "Demands on a level that no person could ever manage alone..." Thus I believe that while Hoid was the one actually pulling the trigger, there was another group bracing and bolstering him, probably a group of 16, aka the Shardic Vessels. Think the ending scene from Guardians of the Galaxy. Starlord got his hands on the Infinity Stone but he couldn't use it until they all united their strength by using the secret move "Power of Friendship" :). I think that's what happened here only more premeditated God-murder and less dance off. Scattering of the Dawnshards My next bit of wild speculation is that I believe that when Adonalsium was Shattered, the Dawnshards contained in the weapon were scattered to four of the Vessels. Which Vessels got chosen probably had to deal with the specific theme of each Shard of Adonalsium. Cultivation and Ruin, for instance, both fit squarely in the Change quadrant. Here's how I think the Shards fall into the quadrants. Change - Ruin, Cultivation, Endowment Survive - Preservation Unite - Honor, Devotion, Dominion Distinguish - Odium, Autonomy, Ambition Ruin is Change through destruction. Cultivation is Change through improvement. Endowment is Change through transfer. Preservation is Survival through stasis. Honor is Unity through shared ethics. Devotion is Unity through love. Dominion is Unity through law and government. Distinguish is all about individuality (which is why I was having trouble with the word Distinguish. Individuality is not a verb!!!). This would mean the Odium is individuality through emotion, Autonomy is individuality through isolation and Ambition is individuality through accomplishment. I believe that Hoid either got the Survive Dawnshard or had it before the Shattering and the it somehow ended up with Preservation after everything was said and done. It is currently hidden on Scadrial somewhere. Honor got the Unity Dawnshard and took it with him to Roshar. I'm not sure who ended up with the Change Dawnshard but they must have given it up or had it taken from them somehow, probably the former, and it was then carried to Roshar and hidden in the cavern in Akinah. This leaves Distinguish, which I believe fell into Autonomy's hands. It's use might explain her weird avatar situation, granting herself an excess of individuality. She gave it to Odium to use in killing Devotion, Dominion and Ambition. This is how he wiped the floor with them without breaking a sweat, even in a two on one fight. This is also probably why Brandon was cagey about whether Bavadin helped Odium splinter D&D. She didn't really help commit the murder, she just handed the murderer a gun at some point. Dawnshard Battle on Roshar After Odium got done taking out D&D and Ambition, he set his sights on Honor and Cultivation. Big problem here though. Honor had a Dawnshard. I don't think he was actively using it though. It's my guess that there was some sort of agreement among the Vessels to not wield both a Shard and a Dawnshard at once. It would upset the balance of power too much. This is why Survive is being stored away on Scadrial, why Change was sort of floating around until it ended up in Aimia and why Honor was letting Ishar hang on to Unite, which he used to bind the surgebinders with oaths and create the Oathpact. But Odium broke the rules and so Honor took his Unite Dawnshard back to kick some butt. The problem for Honor was that Odium is just insanely more practiced and skilled in Shard on Shard combat at this point and was just more skilled with using a Dawnshard in general. Sure they both had guns but one has a seasoned fighter and the other was an amateur. Regardless Honor was enough of a threat with his Dawnshard that Odium had to take things slow and be cautious. This is also probably why Cultivation stayed out of this for the most part. She wasn't armed. Eventually Odium gets the upper hand and slips in a killing blow but Honor leaves his cognitive shadow, along with the Dawnshard that it's carrying, behind and has it fuse with the Stormfather. This now means that any Bondsmith that bonds to the Stormfather now has access to a Dawnshard as well as the Shard of Honor relative to how closely bonded they are with the Stormfather. The more oaths they say, the closer they get to becoming the Vessel of Honor and attaining the full power of the Dawnshard of Unity. This is probably how Melishi was able to bind the Singers into slaveform. This is probably also how Dalinar is able to Unite the realms. It also occurs to me that this might be a good explanation for why the Recreance happened. Honor was dying and as he was dying he gave his Dawnshard to the Bondsmiths. Since the Dawnshard was presumably what destroyed Ashyn people might have been worried about misusing that power. It would be like the President showing up to your house one day at random, mortally wounded, screamed something about the end of the world and gave you the nuclear launch codes before dying on your couch. Anybody would be freaked out, let alone the descendants of the people who once blew up a planet. They then immediately have their fears validated when Melishi, the new Dawnshard of Unity, uses his newfound power to lobotomize an entire sapient species. Yeah, I can see why they were concerned. Future of the Dawnshards It is my current opinion that at some point in a future book, Dalinar will say his fifth oath and bond fully to the Stormfather. This will cause him to ascend to become the Vessel of Honor and also grant him full access to the Unity Dawnshard. This time however the fight against Odium will go differently because Odium won't be facing kind old Tanavast. He'll be facing the Blackthorn. At that point Dalinar either keeps the Dawnshard or gives it up, either one seems plausible. The Change Dawnshard stays with Rysn for now but that could change in the future depending on how things play out. The Survive Dawnshard is probably being held by Kelsier currently, both because Kelsier is probably the most realmatically aware Scadrian, and thus probably knows all about Dawnshards and realizes that one is on Scadrial, but also because it fits thematically. Kelsier The Survivor, who fought gods and won, gets a god slaying weapon called Survive? It's freaking perfect. I honestly don't know what happens to the Distinguish Dawnshard. It honestly comes down to how the fight with Odium actually plays out. I doubt it can ever be truly destroyed but it might get lost somehow or simply gifted to someone responsible. Some Extra Reasoning Tidbits - I used Survive as one of the Dawnshards because Kelsier mentions hearing a voice tell him to Survive within the Pits and because it fits as a nice clean opposing force to Change. We also know a powerful weapon is hidden on Scadrial. - I used Unite because Dalinar's "I am Unity" moment as well as several mentions of Unity in Elantris in regards to Devotion and Dominions religions. There's also mentions of a Dawnshard that binds things, which I believe is Unite. - Distinguish (still feel like that's not a perfect word) is in there because I needed something to oppose Unity that fit for the remaining three Shards. Individuality seems to fit in my opinion. - As for why Honor mentioned that they won't have access to the Dawnshards, I have no idea. There's already one confirmed to be on the planet and if my theory is right there's another two. Maybe he's saying they can't use them because of the oaths? That seems to be the original purpose of Radiant oaths, to keep the people who could potentially misuse a Dawnshard in check. - I believe the one Dawnshard that is different from the other, as mentioned in a WoB, is the Survive Dawnshard as it's on Scadrial and the other three are on Roshar. - The Shard of Adonalsium that is loosely associated with wisdom and "just want's to survive" is probably in the Survive quadrant. - It seems to me from the line in the novella about Rysn not being able to use the power and the restriction in their contract about becoming a surgebinder suggests that the Dawnshard requires some sort of magic already present in the wielder in order to make it work. This suggests to me that the Dawnshard is less of a powerful spell and more of an amplifier of other magics, making them far more powerful and versatile. This is probably due to the problem that Nikli mentions about needing the breadth of understanding equivalent to a deity. A Dawnshard in a Soother's hands might let them manipulate the minds of everyone on a whole planet because the Soother's powers are being used as a framework in place of that required understanding. A Soother with Dawnshard could probably not manipulate the laws of physics to the same extent as he could manipulate emotions. Maybe a little, but not to the same apocalyptic degree that a Shardic Vessel could. - We know that Hoid derives his immortality from the weapon that killed Adonalsium and we know that he's been cursed to never harm another living thing. I believe that both of those come from the Survive Dawnshard. He survives through anything, including death, because of the residual influence of the Dawnshard. He also can't kill or maim because that's antithetical to the concept of survival. What are your guy's thoughts on all of this? Let's discuss.