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  1. There have been a couple of threads of readers being disappointed by OB. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/68936-ob-whats-up-with-oathbringer/ http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/66361-ob-underwhelming/ Or a review on goodreads https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/891581512 These reviews hit on a point: Oathbringer is a really weird book. It ignores basic advice Brandon himself gives to young readers in his lectures on YouTube. 1. Lack of Expectations/ Promises (I wrote a different version of this somewhere else) In OB no grand expectation is set or promise made for the last few hundred pages or so. In WoK we had Dalinar vs Sadeas and the situation of Bridge Four and indeed these issues were met by the end of WoK. In WoR an even greater expectation was resolved that the war against the Parshendi would end which we had expected since the beginning of WoK. OB is different. The big villain is Odium but we also know that he is not going to be defeated in this book. There is no plan how to challange him, no ring to throw into Mt. Doom, no Death Star to destroy, no Horcruxes to kill, you get the point. All plotlines hang in a void without some big expectation to tie them all together. Instead the characters stumble along for the last act to arrive. I mean they literally stumble through the Perpendicularity into Thaylen! We could not have expected the books resolution there. Expectations we could reasonable have after WoR, were not met. Sadeas death had only minor consequences. His death is kind of swept under the rug for the entire book; The Ghostblood/Shallan/Jasnah issue, again not really addressed. And then there is the triangle of doom…I know this is controversial, but I expected clarity by the end of this book. We did not get a scene of Shallan having a conversation with Kaladin laying out why and that she really is not into him. Instead there was hardly any dialogue between Kaladin and Shallan and, well, an endless teasing game. Anyways, let`s not delve into that too much. Things turn toxic very fast. 2. Lack of agency Sah the freed Singer tells Kaladin: This line applies to most characters in OB. Elokhar does, what he thinks society demands of a “good” king. Kaladin cannot save him, because he is frozen on the spot. He only gets more frustrated by the question of whom he should protect. Shallan plunges deeper and deeper into her madness. Moash`s destiny is determined by his past choices. Dalinar is unable to face his former self. Adolin cannot tell anybody he killed Sadeas. Szeth is the exception here. He used to be swept away by circumstances, but he is making his own choices in this book. Only by the end of OB do some (mostly Dalinar) regain a little bit of agency. For the most part, however, they are just leafs in the wind being blown by the plot hither and tither. This is not good storytelling. I have too much confidence in Brandon as a writer to think this is merely a coincidence. Especially since he advises young writers in his lectures to set promises and to construct a plot with characters having agency. Instead I believe he tried to square the circle by writing Oathbringer: Laying down a compelling narrative without having promises or letting the characters make meaningful choices. And he kind of succeeded, didn`t he? Oathbringer is a good book, despite having these massive structural faults. Why did he do it? 1. Brandon cannot escalate every book by having bigger and bigger promises: (sequels always have to be bigger, as the Ardent jokingly said). OB is a purposeful step down to enable future plots to feel genuine and not like the next inevitable step on the ladder towards our final villain Odium. 2. It shows Odium`s almost absolute control of everyone. Odium`s influence is often described as letting go of any responsibility, to just go where momentum and your passions carry you. Odium has good reasons to believe there is no possible way for him to lose. This should be reflected in the narrative. Odium reigns. (Especially in Oathbringer)
  2. Because all of the Shards of Adonalsium have their own predesignated Intents, I have come to wonder if Adonalsium itself had an Intent of its own before it was shattered. And I believe that Intent, and therefore the name we can ascribe to the power of Adonalsium, is Unity. First of all, this stems from the nature of the religions on Sel, as shown in Elantris. The two dominant religions on Opelon in conflict with one another are Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth. The way I see it, Shu-Korath relates closely to the Intent of the Shard of Devotion, and Shu-Dereth relates closely to the Intent of Shard of Dominion. Both were killed and Splintered early on Sel, but they still have a great influence on Sel, not just in the form of seons and skaze, but in the form of religious precepts. And what is it the Korathi and the Derethi are both striving for in the world? Unity. They seek to unite all people, but in different ways. The Korathi preach love, the Derethi preach control. Unity through Devotion. Unity through Dominion. Of course, this could be seen as the effect of people’s interpretations of Intent rather than Shards themselves, so who knows. My second point is a rather weaker one, relating to Scadrial and its Shards. When Ruin and Preservation are combined into one, they for the dual Shard of Harmony. It is a perfect Unity of the two most opposing Intents. If anything, I consider unity and harmony to be synonymous one with another (and so does the thesaurus ). Third of all is in the Stormlight Archive, Honor repeats the same command to Dalinar in each of his visions – Unite them. It almost even seemed a bit out of character to me that the dead Shard seemed to care more about unity on Roshar rather than the honor of mankind. We don’t even know entirely what he means by that phrase, but it is his ever-present plea. Unite them. Whatever it means, Honor desires unity of some sort. And in Oathbringer, it reaches a culmination that seemed to be set up from the start of the series. The previous points could be considered speculation, but this is a real example in the books that works as evidence. The linchpin for this theory is the climactic scene in Oathbringer in which Dalinar swears his third Ideal, opens Honor’s perpendicularity, and is referred to as having Ascended. When Venli asks him who he is, he responds, “I am Unity” before uniting the three Realms. This seems to go along with what Honor’s visions have been saying to him. The interesting part is this: it’s right after he says those words and brings the Realms together that Odium steps back in fear and rage, saying, “No, we killed you! WE KILLED YOU!” Now, why would he say that in direct response to Dalinar calling himself Unity? At around that same time, Dalinar remarks to himself that Odium suddenly seems small compared to him. It seems to me that in that moment, Dalinar somehow took up a bit of Adonalsium when he briefly Ascended and somehow knew it, which was why he referred to himself with the title of “Unity”. There are even moments in the series before and after that scene where he describes feeling a warmth and a light that comes from somewhere beyond, something different from Honor. It makes me think that the voice telling him to “unite them” may not even be Honor’s. And if it is, it seems to bear the touch of Adonalsium. On Roshar, Dalinar is meant to “unite them” to save humankind. On Sel, the religions based off the two Shardic Intents are looking for unity through devotion and dominion. On Scadrial, Sazed has become the unified form of two Shards as Harmony. As shown by these three series, unity seems to be a big driving force in the cosmere, one closely related to some of the Shards and perhaps something beyond even them. Why? Because I think Unity was the Intent of Adonalsium, and that it has left its touch on the Shards even after all the time it was Shattered. So my next big question is – if the ultimate power of the cosmere was the godly embodiment of unification, then why would people want to divide it? But hey, that's just a theory. A Cosmere Theory! Thoughts on this theory as a whole? TL;DR: Adonalsium had the Intent of Unity, with possible evidence given in Elantris, Mistborn and the Stormlight Archive.
  3. I have just started reading oathbringer and it has only strengthened my belief in something i have been fearing since the last book i strongly suspect shallan has disassociate identity disorder aka multiple personality disorder from wikipedia " Dissociative identity disorder (DID), also known as multiple personality disorder, is a mental disorder characterized by at least two distinct and relatively enduring personality states. There is often trouble remembering certain events, beyond what would be explained by ordinary forgetfulness. These states alternately show in a person's behavior. Presentations, however, are variable. Associated conditions often include borderline personality disorder, post traumatic stress disorder, depression, substance misuse disorder, self-harm, or anxiety. The cause is believed to be due to childhood trauma. In about 90% of cases there is a history of abuse in childhood " "The symptoms of dissociative amnesia are subsumed under the DID diagnosis" from the wiki page of psychogenic amnesia " Psychogenic amnesia, also known as dissociative amnesia, is a memory disorder characterized by sudden retrograde episodic memory loss, said to occur for a period of time ranging from hours to years. More recently, "dissociative amnesia" has been defined as a dissociative disorder "characterized by retrospectively reported memory gaps. These gaps involve an inability to recall personal information, usually of a traumatic or stressful nature." i am not a psychologist and would be very interested if one happens to stumble over this post i just wanted to point out this thing and discuss possible implications it might have on the story ps: i am only about 16 chapters into oathbringer please no spoilers for further in the book
  4. Okay so this just crossed my mind and I'd like a second opinion. Lift has a unique ability to touch Spren in the physical realm. Can she control this? Because she walks into the cloud made by the Thrill to give Dalinar the perfect gem. If that cloud is the physical form of the Thrill, wouldn't she bump into it as opposed to pass through it? Or does her unique powers let her walk into it but be unaffected? Just curious, maybe a WoB exists for this already?
  5. I was reading the story of the girl who looked up when shallan told it in part one, and i thought of why the girl had white hair. And then lightning struck my brain. This story is set in Elantris, the girl is an elantrian, and the wall is the wall of elantris. While it probably isnt the case, i still thought it was pretty cool. Did any of you guys think of that?
  6. I'm doing a re read of oathbringer. In the scene where renarin and adolin meet at the horse stables, Renarin tells adolin he wants to give away his dead shardblade. In the scene Adolin touches Renarin's hand and Adolins broken wrist is healed. While Adolin is being healed he says he sees the man he could be, a complete man. Is he just seeing himself healed and then being healed or is renarin giving him a glimpse into a possible future for Adolin?
  7. By now, we know it is possible to actually kill the Heralds and not just kill them through the use of a dagger from Odium's investiture and that Moash has been entrusted with it along with Jezrien's Honorblade. But it kind of strikes me as unusual that they only armed him with the honorblade after he has already murdered Jezrien. Is there any implication with him having it while he tried to kill the herald? I know that killing Jezrien is meant to be seen as more of a test of his loyalty/passion, but what if it wasn't an actual test but a requirement? What if they have a plan with Moash? One that might possibly involve killing all of the heralds and bonding with all of their honorblades? We already have a WoB that says a Radiant CAN bond with an honorblade, therefore giving him access to additional surges or making his surges a bit stronger if he has the honorblade of his own order. Can you imagine how powerful one man can become if he bonds with all ten of the honorblades? Wouldn't that make him the closest one to actually becoming Honor? What if this is Odium's plan for him all along? To have Moash gather all of the honorblades, then gather all of the splinters. Only now, he would become a twisted version of Honor, maybe Loyalty? Honoring his debt of gratitude from Odium? Seems to me that Moash's whole journey focuses about his revenge and lack of honor (betraying Kaladin). Is he fated to realize his mistakes and actually become the new shard of Honor? Not to mention also that the original Parshendi were also from Honor. What if they were working against Odium to restore their old god? What do you guys think?
  8. I think the dagger Moash uses does not 'kill' the herald so much as it somehow traps their soul (identity?) inside the gem on the hilt. From the book: Was it done this way to keep the current state of the Oathpact intact? The other Heralds POV we get mentions they sense the other's loss Does this means that they could somehow be freed from the gem later, rescuing/restoring them? Naturally, if any of this is true, I think it's possible we may see up to an additional 9 versions of such daggers with the appropriate gemstone on the hilt. Thoughts?
  9. Just finished Oathbringer yesterday!!!!

    © Ariel Edwards

  10. Adolin's Blade. Is she actually dead? She shows some cognizant abilities, but she's unresponsive. She knows her name. She's able to decide how fast she appears in Adolin's hand. So...is she becoming less dead? Or was she never dead in the first place?
  11. Yesterday, the first part of the Oathbringer Graphic Audio came out. Its regular price for a digital version is $16.99, and you can also get it on CD as well. Graphic Audio has done many of Brandon's books and are highly regarded. It isn't just a usual audiobook. It has a full cast of readers acting out the dialogue, with music as well. You can listen to a sample to see if it's your sort of thing on the Graphic Audio page. There are six parts to the Oathbringer Graphic Audio, and the next two come out May 23rd and June 20th, so we have about a month between them for these. If you have these, let us know what you think of the graphic audios below!
  12. So we're at the end of Oathbringer, and Ash and Taln are collapsing on the ground because Jezrien died. And just before she passes out, Ash sees that Jasnah has their pictures. Except... how is that supposed to work, physically? Jasnah is standing in front of the Heralds and looking from them to Hoid's drawings. So the pictures should be on the side of the paper facing Jasnah. Ash shouldn't be able to see anything except the back of the paper. Is Jasnah contorted in some weird position? Is she helpfully holding out the pictures in the other direction just in case anyone wants to see? Is the paper really thin, and the ink bled through? Or is it just a plothole?
  13. So as I was re-reading oathbringer I noticed some weird stuff about Jasnah. From this I'm thinking that while Jasnah was still young (maybe 3-4 because Navini said somewhere that when she was really young she was already super smart--also remember that a year there is around 500 days so a 4 year old there would be roughly 6 here) she bonded Ivory, probably only saying the first ideal. Gavilar noticed and that's what got him started with the whole 'bringing back honor and radiants' stuff. Someone else noticed, maybe Navini and thought she was crazy, so she put her in the asylum. But I'm a little confused why nobody would remember it. Seems like something people would remember. Tell me what you guys think about it. And yes I know that this will probably all be answered in Jasnah's book, but that's still like 8 years off.
  14. The various races of humans in roshar have several odd traits. For example: Herdazian rock like fingernails, thaylen eyebrows, horn eater bones, aimian's abilities to change, the blue tinted skin of the people hoid told the story about, alethi hair, shin eyes, etc. Some nations dont have light eyes. I have two theories as to why this might be. The first is that soulcaster savants children might have modified genetic heritage. The second theory is that the decendants of different orders of radiant gained different traits. While on the honor spren ship, one of the honor spren said that until the fifth ideal, if kaladin died, syl would survive. Is it possible that the spren at the fifth ideal become interlinked more fully to the radiant to the point it changes genetic heritage? Is the body focus the thing changed by the spren bond? (I am aware that khriss believes the body focus to be a philosophical interpretation) Which spren could be associated with each race? I will make a spread sheet to help illustrate this,
  15. I've seen a lot of references discussing Azure referencing the time she used the "white on black" idiom. I must've missed it reading the book. Can anyone point me to what chapter this was in?
  16. What do you need to capture Unmade in perfect gem? Do you need Bonsmith or just any KR who understands it? Coppermind confused me with this, from Unmade page: But from Re-Shepir page:
  17. I haven't seen this posted anywhere else, yet, so if it has been, please let me know. So I've been thinking a lot about this recently, and I'm not sure if I've stumbled across something incredibly mundane, or perhaps game-changing when it comes to Roshar, Shardblades, Spren, and the Cosmere at large. I am, of course, speaking about Glys. More specifically his form as a shardblade. When Renarin shows Adolin his Glysblade for the first time, it is described as having a rippled look to the metal, and it's shape is similar to that of a katana. "He took a deep breath, then stretched his hand to the side and summoned a long glowing Shardblade. Thin, with almost no crossguard, it had waving folds to the metal, like it had been forged." In real life, those ripples come from the forging process of folding and re-folding the metal multiple times. I'm wondering if Glys's nature as being Sja-Anat's "son", the fact that he is a corrupted Truthwatcher Spren, is why his blade looks like it was forged, instead of the typical smooth look most Shardblades have. I could be on to nothing with this, but it seems to me that Glys would be considered "co-opted investiture", and that perhaps in metallic form, corrupted investiture would appear like two different metals forged into one, i.e. the ripple effect. ETA - Quote from the book
  18. From the album Oathbringer Scenes

    I got inspired by the scene where Dalinar goes to face the Thrill alone...it created such a strong visual in my mind that I had to recreate it! I hope you guys enjoy!
  19. We know that It is possible to bond an unmade. Re-shephir showed us this withs Shallan as well as Yelig-nar and Aesudan Kholin and Amaram. (Unless I am wrong) Do we know how the unmade correlate to surges? I want to know which surges you could get from bonding Sja-anat, I guess this part is speculation. If you can get surges by bonding. If not surges what would you get?
  20. Why was Hoid named the Bearer of the First Gem? What is the First Gem? Is it part of the weapon they used to shatter Adonalsium? Perhaps they captured investitures of Adolnasium with, say 16 gems, and Hoid actually held the first, being the first to go near the omnipotent being to give the first strike?
  21. From the album General SA Art

    This is one scene I really wanted to depict! Perhaps I’ve never said before, but Szeth is my fav other than Dalinar in OB =)
  22. From the album General SA Art

    I really grew to love Lift after reading Edgedancer and Oathbringer =)
  23. Preface: I just realized that I have made 99 posts on the Shard and I want to make #100 count. I've spent the last few minutes or so (which is a long time for me) trying to figure out what would be appropriate. On my first day as a member of the Shard, I was reading an interesting thread about The Iriali and the long trial and decided to insert my two cents. I had a good idea about the name of the Shard that the Iriali call "The One." No one ever responded to my post, and the thread died (my post is still the last one). I have wanted to create a new thread about it for a while now, but I never got around to it. So for post #100, I decided to dust off this old theory and try again! The Theory: The basic story of the One is this: There was a single great entity that knew everything but had experienced nothing It broke apart it many pieces, becoming the people known as the Iriali The Iriali were destined to live on 7 different worlds (great speculation on this in the thread I linked above) After the 7th world, they would reunite to reform The One (which we assume is a Shard) So the question is, which Shard is The One? In the thread linked above, there was some interesting speculation on this, but I feel like everyone is missing a glaring, obvious clue. How has Brandon named all of the Shards so far? It's based off of their capital "I" Intent driving motivation. What is the Shard's purpose? Why does it do what it does? This purpose drives all of the Shard's actions and it's reflected in the name of the Shard. So let's ignore all the (super interesting) speculation about which worlds the Iriali have gone to, and which they will go to next. These questions are just distractions. The relevant question is WHY. Why do they travel between worlds? Why did The One break itself apart? The answer: to experience. It knew everything but experienced nothing, so it broke apart and forced its people to travel from world to world in the Cosmere. The purpose is to gain experience. The Shard is called Experience Closing: Ok, that was a lot to type and took longer than I expected. Now that I'm done, I fully expect someone to pop in with a WoB totally disproving my whole theory. That, or for someone to say "duhhhhh, why do you think no one talks about this? It's like having a theory about water being wet." Anyway this is my 100th post and I'm sticking to it! Thanks to everyone at the Shard for enabling my Sanderson addiction! P.S. Wasn't sure if this should be on the OB board or in Cosmere Theories, so admins feel free to move
  24. Is Azure’s blade actually a shardblade? It doesn’t seem to act normal, due to the nature that it is unable to be dismissed and it’s strange size. I’ve come to think that it’s an awakened sword, due to Azure being Vivenna. If it is awakened, what command do you think it has? Is it sentient?
  25. I recently listened to the Shardcast on Resonances and was wondering due to the mixing of Odious Investiture with the Nahel bond if Renarin and/or Venli would have a different Resonance than other Truthwatchers or Willshaperes?