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In page 789 of the American Version, Hoid-as-Wit and Shallan are discussing the story of 'The Girl who Looked Up', with Hoid-as-Wit stating that "It's a story from long ago...things were different in that time." However, when Shallan creates the Illusion, he says "...it's not dark enough" (page 790), with the illusion "leaving them standing in the darkness of night, lit only by a frail set of stars." Hoid then goes on to say that people still had to live, even without light, living, farming and eating in the darkness, except for the one girl who wanted to find out the answers about the wall, and eventually climbing the wall to find that on the other side was "God's Light" (page 792), and that she sneaked up to the Light, and she brought it back with her. "To the other side. To the...to the land of shadows..." according to Shallan. This sounds very similar to the story of Khriss in White Sand, the ever inquisitive girl who goes from the Darkside to Dayside in her quest to find the Sand Masters, and to those who have read White Sand Prime, we know that she takes Sand back with her to Darkside at the end of the book. What d'y'all think? Am i clutching at straws here?

So based off of the revelation of this book the humans on roshar were originally of odium instead of honor or cultivation. That begs the question; why is Renarin the only human we know of to have bonded a spren of odium? Why are the humans bonding spren of Honor? And why was Honor so accepting of the humans if they were so cruel to his beings?

Spoilers up to Part 4. I think it's possible that Soulcasting, while it might slowly deteriorate your physical form, slowly changes your cognitive form until you become a Spren. (One to match the type of Soulcasting done) When I read Kaze Interlude, I thought she was just slowly turning into smoke. Of course, she soulcasts matter into smoke, so it seems like a plausible consequence. Chapter 105 talks of an ardent Soulcaster whose "skin beneath was colored like granite, cracked and chipped, and seemed to glow from within." This description matches that of some of the spren walking around in the Spren port in Shadesmar. This made me realize that there was also a Spren to match Kaza's trabsformation in that town. There were smokespren there as well. Anyone have a similar thought or theory about the end cost of Soulcasting?

Before reading Oathbringer my running theory for what spren were was that they were essentially shards of Honor. Shards of a shard if you will; tiny pieces of Adonalsium. However, after reading Oathbringer it seems like Honor was creating spren even when he was alive along with Odium and possibly even Cultivation. I was also wondering why spren don't appear in the cosmere outside of roshar. I'm somewhat confused about this topic and would love to hear what you all think.

So we have seen a little bit of a convergence of how Cosmere Magic systems are working, like Soulcasting to Forgery, Sel's symbol based system and now on Scadrial we're seeing symbols start to pop up (I may be wrong on this, I haven't read Era 2 in about 10 months, and I've read a lot of books in the past year). We have a WoB saying Awakening can be fueled by Stormlight... What if a Bondsmith or Herald used Connection abilities to use Awakening Commands and magically subdued/subjugated the Parshmen?

We already know that there are at least 4 types of cognitive shadows that are left behind by human-level creatures: 1. Shades on Threnody, 2. Fused souls, 3. Svrakiss, 4. Kelsier. Now, the description of Svrakiss from Coppermind: sounds quite familiar after reading Oathbringer. They both hate, they don't go to the Beyond, they curse a lot, and they prey on the living. People have speculated if Svrakiss are what's behind the Set's Faceless Immortals, and now we have another option which is almost identical. Knowing that they are both from planets which Odium set foot upon makes me ponder. Also, Threnody was associated with Ambition, who was also splintered by, well, Odium. Below is the description of the Evil: Odium feasted on the guilt of the humans, which is what keeps most people on the right track, making right choices, doing right things. With Odium to blame for any crime passionnel, a man can be considered soulless, and the rest of the humankind did the right thing to flee them. My theory is, all these 3 types of cognitive shadows are created by Odium. He may not have invested on Sel to keep the Svrakiss from going to the Beyond, but there is enough investiture in the Cognitive Realm to do it. Odium may have used the investiture he tore from Ambition to create the shades. And we know about the Fused already. Odium is like a master Necromancer, leaving behind an army of undead everywhere he goes. And he will not hesitate to use the army when there's the chance. And that's perhaps what Hoid is working against, to release the cognitive shadows? After all, they're basically the only people he can beat and hurt without breaking his oaths. And he even danced with some of them, and he may have wished them a peaceful rest.

This topic’s called Consequences of Honor, but I think we should really be looking at the consequences of a lack of honor. Well, a lack of Honor. Let me explain. We all know that Honor was splintered, and that Honor used to have certain ‘checks’ on Surgebinding. These checks, along with Honor himself, are gone after the Splintering. What were these checks, though? I think we may have already seen a few things Honor might not have wanted to happen. Example 1: Kaladin and his magical highstorm-stopping wall. We’ve theorized that this was a use of his Adhesion Surge, maniplulating pressure to divert the highstorm around himself. I do think that is probably true, but the important thing that I noticed was that Syl had never heard of anyone doing that before. It’s a new, scarily powerful thing. Example 2: Unity. Dalinar’s moment of Ascension was awesome, and true, it’s most likely due to his bonding a big piece of Honor’s power, but that doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous. Having a Perpendicularity on call? That’s scary. Example 3: Shallan’s Lightweaved army. She’s still only at her 4th Oath, as far as we know, and it’s surprising she was able to summon that ridiculous number of illusions out of nowhere. It’s a huge power boost from what she used to be at. Also, I’d like to talk about how her illusions had mass, and splattered illusions of blood, too, even though she’s not at all practiced with Soulcasting, which is what she assumed was going on. There might be other examples that I missed, or there might be perfectly reasonable ideas for why these types of powers seem to be new, surprisingly powerful manifestations of Surgebinding. I invite you all to try and tear my theory apart!

Kalak's Breath, what if that's a reference to Nalthis?

Last Update (probably): Here is a link to the Arcanum page for this event: Oathbringer Chicago Signing UPDATE: Brandon is feeling a little under the weather, so in order to expedite the event there will only be one line. He will personalize ONE book and sign up to THREE additional books per fan. He will not be able to pose for photos or take questions from the signing line. If you have more books than that, you can wait until the very end if you wish, but be forewarned that it may be a late night. Thank you for your understanding as we try and help him get the rest he needs. Hey Everyone, So the tour dates and locations dropped a few days ago, and I was surprised to not see any thread pop up for Chicago yet. He is coming back to the Anderson's in Naperville, for the Chicago natives to this forum this should be of no surprise, I is there at least every other time he comes out this way. As usual, you will have to by your copy of Oathbringer from the store in order to get it signed/personalized, but he usually has the rule of doing up to three personalizations and as many signatures as you have books. At least this has been the case in the past, it depends on the staff at Anderson's but they have almost ways gone above an beyond in their help of the fans. I will definitely be there, and I will have my recording equipment as usual, and im not usually the only one, so we should be good for an audio recording of the event. If someone does not have any questions they would like to have asked let us know, I know the community, especially the Chicago regulars, can easily provide you a plethora of possible questions. The location for this event will not be at the book store proper this time. Event date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 6:00pm Event address: Community Christian Church 1635 Emerson Ln Naperville, IL 60540

I have a very simple theory on acquiring/becoming squires as/to a Knight Radiant: 1. You need Connection between the Knight and the squire, 2. Windrunners have more squires than other orders because they have spiritual Adhesion, which works differently than that of the Bondsmiths. The Windrunners may use spiritual Adhesion to acquire squires in 2 ways: 1. Making it easier for people to Connect to him, appearing more inspiring in their eyes, 2. Becoming a lashing point, when people stop resisting his Connection, it will be very easy for them to be stuck to his spiritual web and acquire the ability to use Stormlight. Per Skar's teaching, Kal's squires should not try too hard, but let it happen. It sounds like the power is there like a pool of tar, but you by instinct will try to escape, which takes you farther from it. Stop trying and you get stuck.

Until Dalinar's talk with the Stormfather, no one (outside of Mraize) seems to think Tezim is anything other than an ordinary human who just happens to be ten shades of bonkers. Which implies that Tezim's rule hasn't been longer than a normal human lifetime. So what has Ishar been up to in the past few generations, before he took over Tukar? Or do you think everyone just assumed "Tezim" was a Dread Pirate Roberts situation?

I recall partly reading a teaser chapter from BS from Jasnah's POV after she Elsecalled into Shadesmar from the Winds Pleasure and presumably saved Shallan's life and the trunk. I didn't finish reading it, I read Oathbringer and don't remember this scene included. Why? Please where can I find this scene once more?

The name "Azure" probably should have been a tip-off, but when she was first introduced, I thought the Highmarshal was a man. By the time Azure's "secret" was revealed, I had already stopped thinking about "his" name and moved on to other stuff. The weird "shardblade" maybe should have been a clue, but to be fair, I don't think anyone was expecting Nightblood 2.0. When Kaladin stated right out that he thought she had found an Honorblade, there was obviously going to some dramatic irony there; I figured it was going to turn out that she was an actual Herald. Except she didn't seem at batguano insane as a Herald. So I didn't know what to think. Then she used Zahel's "white on black" idiom, and that's when I put the book down, and laughed, and started muttering about how I'd found her. When did you guys realize she was Vivenna?

Now, Nightblood is a pretty badass sword, with his sense of humour and intent to eradicate evil in whichever fashionable way possible. Whilst his power is somewhat nebulous as of right now, I am wondering what happens to a Fused struck by Nightblood. He destroys across all three realms, so what does this mean for the Fused who intend on returning to a new Parshman body? I think that NB will be the way to stop Fused from being reborn in the Everstorm. We saw a Thunderclast cleaved in two by Szeth as he saved Lift, maybe it won't be 'reborn'! Personally I don't fee Nightblood is in the Stormlight Archive just for the sake of being in them, he has a bigger roll than shown so far, and maybe this is it? Instead of the Fused going to Damnation, they just stop existing. Thoughts?

If we were to follow the idea that Shardplate consists of lesser Spren (windspren for windrunners, creationspren for Lightweavers, gloryspren for Bondsmiths), Sja-anat's ability to corrupt becomes far more dangerous than imagined. Maybe her ability, by corrupting the Spren, result in a Surgebinder not being able to summon their Shardplate (as she has now influenced them). We know that hungerspren don't get corrupted, (and they don't seem to be the kind of Spren that could make Shardplate). We do see gloryspren, creationspren, lifespren and many others corrupted by Sja-anat's influence. This could be just one aspect of her ability, and if the theory that that is the manner in which Shardplate is made, she seems even more dangerous than previously thought. The ability to remove the KRs defence leaves them in harms way. I do realise that their are other types of Spren which are affected by her abilities, maybe these are for different reasons than mentioned above. What do you guys think?

So here is my theory: Prior to the Humans coming and ruining the Roshar party for everyone, the Listeners worshiped 10 really cool spren. when those softskinned human jerks showed up with Odium in tow the natives got ticked and were seduced by Odium, trading some autonomy for power. Most of that is pretty much confirmed cannon. the theory part is that 9 of those gods went to become the unmade. I think the 10th was the Stormfather. He opted not to accept any of Odiums corrupting power. We know that the Listeners were aware of the surges, but were forbidden to use them. Therefore surgebinding existed prior to the humans. All 10 surges and possibly 10 orders of surge/void binding. There are only 9 types of fused because the Stormfather stayed strong. There is a 10th fused form and a 10th type of surgebinging but it can't exist unless the Stormfather submits to Odium and is corrupted like the other 9 unmade.

Hello all! I periodically make parodies of 80s songs and post them on General Brandon Discussion, but since this has some major Oathbringer spoilers, I have to post it here. You're welcome. If you can name the original song and artist and where it came from, I will give you a token of respect. Fightin’ back, you don’t see the writing on the wall Passin’ by, runnin’ straight ahead you knew it all But maybe sometime if you feel the pain You must speak the oaths, then everything will change! Fight the war. You know you can’t quit until it’s won Soldier on. Only you can do what must be done You know, in some ways you’re a lot like me You’re just a prisoner, and you’re tryin’ to break free! I can see a new horizon! Underneath the blazing sky! I’ll be where the banner’s flying, higher and higher! Gonna be your prince of honor All I need is some Stormlight Take me where the future’s lying, the Unity! Feel the Thrill, don’t know just how far that I can go Soon be home. Only just a few miles down the road And I can make it, I know I can You broke the man in me, but you won’t break the Shard! I can see a new Ascending! Underneath the blazing sky! I’ll be where the stars are floating, higher and higher! Gonna be your Shard of Honor All I need is a little faith Take me where Roshar is rising, the Unity! I can climb the Horneater Peaks, cross the Reshi Sea I can feel the Unity burning in me! Burning in me! Just once in his life a man has his time And my time is now, I’m comin’ alive! I can hear the music playin’, I can see Windrunners fly Can’t feel the Thrill again, hope I can triumph! Gonna be your Shard of Honor All I need is a little faith Take me where Radiants are shining, the Unity! I can see a new beginning! Underneath the blazing sky! I’ll be where enemies are charging, higher and higher! Gonna be your Smith of Bonds All I need is some honor Take me where my future’s lying, with Unity! I can climb the Peaks of Dara, cross the Aimian Sea I can feel my Shard of Honor burning in me! Burning in me! I can feel it burning, inside of me.

Odium accepted a contest of champions. At the time Dalinar represented both Honor's and Odium's champion. Dalinar chose the path of honor. Does that mean that Odium's champion lost? Is that why he had to flee because he would have lost the contest, forcing Odium to rely on conventional forces through the diagram? Does this mean that Odium cannot actively intervene in this desolation? Am I crazy?

There's a passage near the end of the book that immediately bugged me from initial reading: The obvious interpretation is that there should be a representative of each of the Orders here. The KR that are represented for sure are: Bondsmith - Dalinar Windrunner - Kaladin Skybreaker - Szeth Edgedancer - Lift Lightweaver - Shallan Elsecaller - Jasnah Truthwatcher - Renarin These are the 7 Radiants Dalinar appears to be referring to, leaving Stoneward, Willshaper, and Dustbringer. Malata is pretty clearly not being counted here. We know there's actually a 10th that Dalinar isn't aware of at the battle (Venli). So the question becomes: which slots do Venli, Taln and Ash fit? (As an aside - I did consider the possibility that one of the existing KR are in the 'wrong spot', but the only candidate for which that seems potentially likely is Renarin; for this argument I'm going to neglect this as a likely possibility) Taln seems pretty obviously the Stoneward. I think Venli is probably the Willshaper, as the spren she's bonded to doesn't look like what I'd imagine an 'ashspren' to look like, and she fits the epigraph description of Willshapers pretty well (though it also says Willshapers are pretty varied in the first place). So that leaves Ash. While the most obvious Order to associate with Ash is Lightweavers, Shallan is already in that spot. We also know that most of the Heralds probably didn't join their own Orders: The wording is interesting because Nale doesn't say that none of the other Heralds became KR, but specifically that they didn't join their own Order. While this also would technically disassociate Taln with Stonewards, Nale allows for room for not knowing about it, or (more likely) the Heralds that did join the KR (including Nale) probably did so after the last Desolation (which obviously would mean Taln didn't have an opportunity). That said, she's probably not actually bonded to a spren at this point given Baxil's interlude: So presumably she doesn't actually have a Shardblade, but she thinks she could get one, which suggests she's not actively bonded (no Shardblade, but doesn't see any reason she couldn't use a dead one). I'm not sure if this would preclude her from having previously been bonded, however. We also know that Ash's behavior is pretty destructive with regards to images of herself, as well demonstrated in pretty much every scene with her. This is quite anomalous from what we'd expect from Lightweaver behavior (artists) but fits pretty well with what seems to be pretty typical Dustbringer attitude. Finally, her name is 'Ash'! Okay, so not really evidence, but it'd be rather ironically fitting. So my hypothesis is that Ash is the Dustbringer representative - either she was one, or she's going to be the 'main' Dustbringer of the series. The other possibilities are that it's not necessarily one of each Order (though it otherwise fits so well that it's hard to imagine otherwise) or Dalinar is looking for a pattern where there isn't one (obviously because she's not actually a Lightweaver...). It seems like an odd scene to throw in either of those cases, however.

Hey Sharders, In the Oathbringer cover synopsis it says: We may soon hold Surges again, for Radiance has returned to some, and shines toward others. The Captain, broken by loss, seeks reconciliation. The Spy, broken by cruelty, seeks completion. The Stonewalker, broken by oaths, seeks truth. The Traitor, broken by ambition, seeks freedom. On the Coppermind Wiki it links the traitor to Venli, Do we have a WoB to support this? Just curious because of all the titles this one seems most open to interpretation. For example I feel like Moash could also easily fit the description too broken by ambition he seeks freedom from his guilt, freedom from responsibility from his actions etc. Thoughts?

OK, my first topic here, I hope I do it right. I had a new theory about the whole Horneater businesses. Don't you guys find it odd that the "Chief" wanted to acquire shards? We don't know if it's the first brother, first senior cousin, or something like that who can be the chieftain. But why the hell chieftain's try to duel with Shardbearers? They have no experience in dueling properly, let alone facing a Shardbearer. I think something is missing here. The roles of first and second brother is obtaining food, the third brother is to learn a craft (cooking for example). The servants of the chieftain is his family, we don't know how big his family was. It doesn't make any sense that the older brothers had weapons "and they raised them in vengeance". Following the conversation, it's safe to assume that her wife wanted to know who is chief now. I only think of three reasons: The ascension to chieftain is in reverse in the peak. The younger brother is chief, he has to have the ability to protect the village. So Rock actually lost his younger brothers, and if Rock himself dies, the second brother is chief. The ascension to chieftain depends on the roles, first warriors, then craftsmen, then gatherers. The difference with the first one is that the Oldest warrior is chief, not the youngest one. Chief is exempt from the normal roles. If the first brother becomes chief, he cannot do the job that was assigned to him. Meaning that the 2nd and 3rd brother are now gatherers and the 4th one (Rock) is the craftsman. So the chief has to learn how to fight, how else could he protect the village, and challenge a Shardbearer? It also means that the names spoken by Rock were all in line to be chief, (that's why they picked weapons in vengeance) so in truth, Rock lost 3 chiefs that day. Finally, I think that his Oath (or role) didn't count anymore. He was just deluding himself and bridge four. He CAN fight and should do so, but was a coward and decided to continue his cooking. He hasn't broken his previous oaths, instead he didn't want to accept his new oath (role) of protecting his family. (He had named Kaladin and bridge four his family). What he did, killing Amaram with Shard bow, was actually an act of accepting his new role. He became chief before being captured and he knew that, but instead he didn't want to fight. So he has some explaining to do, that was why he was in a corner thinking. Bonus: I really hope Rock becomes a Stonewarden, he probably think he doesn't belong to bridge 4 anymore. what a twist! Bonus2: A shardbearer horneater chief? He is the king of the peaks now.

I thought Celebrant was a place in Middle-earth, but I didn't get around to looking it up until just now. Not only that, it's a river- and Shadesmar cities correspond to bodies of water. Any other shout-outs you've found?

In your opinion, did Shallan understand Wit's advice and did she take the correct steps based on that advice? Did she achieve what she needed, or is she on a journey towards it? Do you think Adolin helps her through this process and if yes, how exactly?