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  1. From the album: Words of Radiance Poster

    The glyphs in the background mean "Freedom" (the wings on the top), and "Slave" (the shash on the bottom). Let me know what you think! I wouldn't be averse to making revisions if someone with better art tastes than I can suggest improvements!
  2. Hello! Radiant_Jaeger Here! I am a fan of all of brandon's books, but my crown jewels have to be the stormlight archive. The rage I felt at Amaram's betrayal. The tears I shed alongside Shallan as she divested her hate for pattern, and the sheer bravery in the face of failure as Dalinar fought abandoned on the Shattered Plains are my reason for joining! Hope to bring forth interesting ideas, good conversation and most importantly of all, WIT!
  3. I tried Stormlight Park again! The whole style is based on South Park Just for fun, don't take it seriously! These characters are all new Radiants and their spren. Heralds and some candidates are not included. As long as we get enough information, I’ll update the chart Though I tend to believe that Adolin/Rysn is the Dustbringer and Eshonai becomes the Willshaper. About the Stoneward, we have only seen Taln so far. Side notes: I created the characters via SP-Studio at first, then used PS to add some specific details. High res: [x] You can also find the ten single pieces here: [x] Additional: What I did for WoK is here: [x] Perhaps 2.0 is more refined than 1.0 because I had modified some details and costume design.
  4. Ever since we discovered that the small circles on the rear endsheet of The Way of Kings (what I call the Voidbringing chart) are symmetric around their centers, I've been looking for things to help me figure out how Voidbringing works - because it felt clear to me that there should be strong parallels with what we see on the front endsheet (the Surgebinding chart). The two are far too similar, so I believe they must be opposite in many ways. I think I finally have an elegant solution. But before I present it to you, a quick primer. Surges and Surgebinders We now know a lot about what the Surgebinding chart illustrates. There are ten Heralds around the borders. Each Herald corresponds to a big circle, enclosing a glyph - an Order of the Knights Radiant. Each big circle is connected to two small circles - the primal Surges members of that Order have access to. We now know the names of all the Heralds, all the Orders, and all the Surges, so there is no point talking about them, you can find the information elsewhere. I will provide only a list of all the Orders and Surges for quick reference. Voids and Voidbringers The most important part of my theory lies here. At this point it's pretty reasonable to say that the Voidbringers are the Parshendi. Or, more specifically, the creatures of destruction remembered by the people of Roshar are the Listeners when they embrace certain forms. In other words - and this is a part of my claim - when we saw Eshonai take on stormform, we only saw one type of Voidbringers, the same way Kaladin is one type of the Knights Radiant. Windrunners are an Order of the Radiants; stormforms are a... something... of the Voidbringers. If this is true, then there are nine other types of Voidbringers we are yet to see - one for each big circle on the rear endsheet. Eshonai represents one... let's call them Voidorders (we really need some words other than "void"...) of the Voidbringers, but unlike the Knights Radiant, she has the option to switch her Voidorder. She can go out during a highstorm, discard her stormform, and embrace decayform, nightform, or smokeform, for example. So far those are the only voidforms we have seen, I believe, but my gut tells me there should be a total of ten of those. So far so good. Now, let's tackle the small circles on the Voidbringing chart. Just like the big ones stand for Voidorders and are the opposite of the Radiants' Orders, the small ones are probably the powers, the Voids, each Voidorder has access to. These Voids would have to be something similar to the Surges, but can't be the same - but like much else, they can be their opposites. In fact, the way the Voids' glyphs are written supports this even further. Those glyphs are not just some asymmetric shapes, they are the Surges' glyphs, broken in half, and then put back together with one of the halves inverted, made its opposite. Considering how much emphasis is put on symmetry in Roshar, this looks like a pretty powerful symbol of not asymmetry, but of anti-symmetry instead. We've taken the Surges, something divine (as represented by their symmetry) and natural, and have turned them into an anathema. Still with me? Good. I won't speculate on what the Voids might be, though I suspect they will somehow end up mirroring the Surges. Instead, I will look at the different voidforms and make the claim that they stand opposite of the Radiants' Orders. Stormform, with its control over the winds (and lightning), sounds like the more hateful counterpart of the Windrunners. Nightform shares some of the future-telling capabilities Renarin, as a Truthwatcher, exhibits. Smokeform, "for hiding and slipping 'tween men," seems very similar to what Shallan can do with her Lightweaving. Decayform... will have to be put on hold for now. The Listener Song of Secrets is not very clear on what this form does, but it's possible that it opposes the Edgedancers ("watch where you walk, your toes to tread") or the Willshapers ("destroys the souls of dreams"). The Edgedancers are a good candidate because of Nale's remark about member of that Order gracefully running along ropes, but the Willshapers' name is more appropriate for the good counterpart of something that destroys the souls of dreams. Whatever that means. The colors on the two endsheets' big glyphs also match, so we could treat that as a piece of extra evidence that we are thinking along the right lines. So there you have it, folks. Voidbringing. I wish I could figure something out about the Voids, because they feel like I should be able to see them... but I can't. Not fully, at least. If Stormform is the counterpart to the Windrunners, then its powers should be somewhat similar. And in a way they are - we see Eshonai & co. call a highstorm (which involves strong winds, which are created by - among other things - difference in pressure; so there's a different form of Adhesion) and throw lightning around (which could be the Voidbringers' answer to gravity - Windrunners get Gravitation, Stormforms get Electromagnetism). The other Voidorders' Voids kind of sound similar, yet opposite, to their respective Orders' Surges, but we haven't seen enough for me to come to a conclusion. Is Smokeform (anti-Progression & anti-Transformation) the form creating illusions, blinding enemies, and summoning darkness? And even if it is, how would the Transformation Void even work? This is not to say that I don't like those anti-Surges, but we really need more information for a more conclusive theory. TL;DR The forms of power the Parshendi received from their gods are what transforms them from Listeners to Voidbringers. Each form (stormform, smokeform, etc.) opposes one Order of the Knights Radiant; Stormform, for example, seems to share the same abilities theme as the Windrunners. The powers those anti-Orders, Voidorders as I call them, also seem opposite to the Surges, but we don't have enough evidence. The term "Voidbringer" is about as descriptive as the term "Knight Radiant" - both are used to denote only one type of the entire category (all Windrunners are Radiants, but not all Radiants are Windrunners; all Stormforms are Voidbringers, but not all Voidbringers are Stormforms). I keep wanting to rename this thread to something more descriptive, but everything I come up with sounds like the name of a research paper. Voids, Voidbringing, and Voidbringers: The Nature of Odium's Investiture and its Applications to and by the Listeners...
  5. The war against the parshendi has been going for four years and the great city of Kholinar is starting to fall. There are rumors on the streets about Elhokar and because of this the brightlords are trying to claim the throne. The city consists now mostly of women, children and elderly. The few able-bodied men left are either guards or cowards. More crimes are committed now than ever before because there just aren't enough guards to enforce the law around the clock and because of this it's really dangerous to go out in the dark. So... This rp would take place before The Way of Kings and would start in Kholinar. Your character would be an ordinary citizen at first but would find their spren soon. After the initial start your character can leave kholinar if that seems like a decent choise. If you want to join, post a little synopsis about your character's personality, looks and abilities before bonding with their spren. Also which order of the radiants they'd be in and the extent of their powers in the surges of that order. p.s. This is one of my first rp:s so feel free to criticize and give me ideas to make this better.
  6. So I don't know if this just me or what but has anybody noticed that Syl is like the windspren but actually an honorspren, and Kaladin is doing the same surgebinding that a WINDrunner would do. I just thought it was interesting how the names connected. Have we learned what type all the other Nahel bonding spren are yet? Because we know Pattern is a Cryptic, we know Ivory is an Inkspren, and Wyndle is a Cultivationspren, but what about the others? Also, is Dalinar a unique case in bonding to the Stormfather? I know there have always been few bondsmiths but there is only one stormfather. Sidenote: How many windspren are actually honorspren? In the beginning of The Way of Kings, Kaladin says that windspren often stick people's shoe to the ground to trip them or make it so they can't pull something apart. This makes me think surgebinding like adhesion but I thought only a few windspren were actually honorspren and therefore should not be able to do surge-like things.
  7. This is my first post, and after reading some hilarious Stormlight Archive posts, I decided to get an account and make one of my own. So I was thinking, and decided on making some new Knight Radiant orders that have control over two non-adjacent Surges in the list of ten. Airgetters- Abrasion and Cohesion. Are known for finding the best places to ski, snowboard, skateboard, bike, etc. and getting huge air with their two Surge powers. Actually... I can't think of any more. Ideals: 1. I will get all the speed. 2. I will get all the air. 3. I will make the ground slicker and more cohesive so others can get all the speed and all the air. 4. Wear a helmet (or Shardplate).
  8. So we know that Kaladin (Windrunner) is bonded to an honorspren and Lift (Edgedancer) is bonded to a cultivationspren, and that all the Nahel-bonding spren exist on a spectrum / continuum from Honor to Cultivation. Other than the Windrunners and Edgedancers, and the Nightwatcher/Stormfather who are 2 of the 3 Bondsmith spren, do we know from the text or WOB which Orders are "more Cultivation" and which are "more Honor"? (I have a theory about the Shard - Surge - Order associations being shown on the Double Eye chart, but don't want to post a theory that's disproved by stuff we already know.)
  9. I think the Surges associated with each Knight Radiant Order, as well as their positions on the Double Eye diagram ("Surgebinding chart"), show which are "more of Honor", which are "more of Cultivation", and which are a more nearly even mix of the two. What we know: -Syl (a Windrunner spren) is an honorspren. The Windrunner surges are Adhesion and Gravitation. -Wyndle (an Edgedancer spren) is a cultivationspren. The Edgedancer surges are Abrasion and Progression. -The Bondsmith spren include the Stormfather (who is "of Honor") and the Nightwatcher (who is "of Cultivation). These spren are unique & of exceptional power/status. -The Lightweavers do not swear Oaths after the First Ideal, but advance by personally relevant truths instead. The chart: http://coppermind.net/w/images/TWoK_Front_Endsheet.jpg The Surges: Well, that's interestingly vague. There's two ways to read the "not a codified part" - either that these powers aren't Surges at all, or that they aren't separated / distinguished from other Surges the way the God Metals are in the Metallic Arts. If Progression and Adhesion "could be considered as such", that does imply the Surges proper are meant. I'd suggest that it's actually all four top and bottom Surges - Tension, Adhesion, Progression, and Illumination - which are the purer expressions of the Shards; one directly, one more symbolically. Adhesion is Honor as bonds, Tension is rigidity - symbolic of fixity of purpose. Progression is Cultivation as growth; Illumination is knowledge and art. The Orders: I believe the "top of the chart" - Stonewards, Bondsmiths, and Windrunners - are of Honor; the "bottom of the chart" - Lightweavers, Truthwatchers, and Edgedancers - are of Cultivation; and the "sides" - Elsecallers, Willshapers, Skybreakers, and Dustbringers - are closer to even (with the Willshapers and Skybreakers inclining to Honor and the Elsecallers and Dustbringers inclining to Cultivation). Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that their spren are strictly of that shard. Surely honorspren and cultivationspren are; but the Nightwatcher is a spren of Cultivation, and yet the Bondsmiths almost certainly are an Honor-aligned order. "Bonds" seem to be absolutely core to the Intent of Honor. Rather, I think the specific positions on the chart are significant. Windrunners (Honorspren) and Edgedancers (Cultivationspren) are on the right side. These "right corner" Orders' spren are the purest expressions of the Shards. Lightweavers (Cryptics) and Stonewards (???) are on the left side. The Lightweavers are interesting because of their Truths; IMO this is an expression of Cultivation as "personal growth". Extrapolating, the Stonewards must represent Honor in some unique way, but their spren aren't necessarily 100% Honor. I'd further speculate that like the Cryptics, the Stonewards' spren will have a name that doesn't include "spren". Bondsmiths (unique spren) and Truthwatchers (???) are in the center. We know far less here, but the Bondsmiths' bond to the unique superpowerful spren suggests that there must be something very special about the Truthwatchers, as does Renarin's foresight combined with the Very Big Deal made about foresight in Vorinism. With a wild leap, I'd suggest that these central Orders are in some way critical to tying the whole KR System together, keeping it functioning.
  10. Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. The Knights Radiant adhere to the philosophy that the ends do not and never will justify the means. Unlike Taravangian who is committing atrocities in the name of "The Greater Good" the KnightsRadiant are forced to work the hard way by living by ideals and honorably. But the Radiants en masse (except perhaps the Skybreakers) broke their oaths on the same day. This was after the Desolations had ended and resulted in the Nahel bonds failing and the Spren abandoning mankind. We know that a war was going on right before the Recreance and that the Radiants were fighting in the war and after they abandoned their blades and plates and left from what we see in Dalinar's vision in WoK (At least the Windrunners and theStonewards). What is something that would break the oaths of all of the knights at once, something that the Knights could be convinced was worth doing that would be dishonorable, that was for the Greater Good, that took the easy path. An unethical action that all the knights would do. I see two possibilities and they're related. There are two events that have happened in the past that require great power and would seem to break the Knights first ideal. One is the shattering of the shattered plains. The other is the enslaving of the Listeners. I don't think it is a conincidence that the last free listeners live on the edge of the kingdom that was shattered by someone. I think Natanatan may have been figthing a war with the Listeners before the Listeners of Narak fled and abandoned civilzation, culture, and the forms and retreated into the wilderness in Dull Form. I think the Radiants were called in to stop the war of join the war and were somehow convinced that the Listeners would bring on another Desolation. I think the Radiants may have been convinced to make a preemptive strike to avoid the Desolation that may or may not be coming and destroy the Listeners entirely before they could summon a Desolation. So they shattered the Area around Stormseat by working together somehow and enslaved all the other Listeners. This stopped the threat, but was such an abhorent, deplorable, dishonorable act, such an egregious breach of the first Ideal that the Radiants agreed to do that it broke all their oaths beyond repair. I haven't put all the pieces together and I don't think we know enough. This is just a hypothesis. I think what broke the oaths was the result of either the breaking of Stormseat to stop the Listeners, or the enslavement of the Parshmen.
  11. I think Rysn is on her way to becoming a Knight Radiant. I think this is why the Larkin chose her. I think her adventurous nature and ironically her Bbasks teachings about respecting and understanding other cultures, embracing novelty and oddity will lead here to become a Willshaper. She has shown Resolve and I think the Willshapers were the Radiants who built trust amongst different cultures and settled disputes. Any other thoughts on which order if any she wil become?
  12. You and four of your friends have been recruited to infiltrate the Unmade fortress somewhere in Natanatan. You will start in Urithuru and attempt to find the fortress. Once/if you do, you will need to fight your way into it and find the Unmade Nergoual. You will need to fight your way through Voidbringers, Midnight essence, and more to reach the fortress and stop the Unmade from launching an army to attack Urithuru and destroy the Radiants. Do not fail me. Desolations and Dustbringers is fairly simple. Fro those who have played D&D or other roleplaying games, you will find this easy. I've played it a ton with my friends, so I've had a lot of practice dungeon mastering. Basically it's D&D on Roshar but I basically describe stuff as we go along, without a module. To fight something, I'll judge what the chances are and IRL, roll a 20 sided die. If it's at or above the number I was using, you hit. For this version, you will be fledgling Radiants, similar to Kaladin in the end of WoK. You will not have Shardblades for this campaign, but you'll still be as BA as Kaladin. I can record what health and how much Stormlight you have left, (Stormlight quotient, or SQ), but I can send a word document for a character sheet if you also want to keep track. All you have to do is come up with responses to my scenarios and questions. For example: Me: You leave Urithuru with the honor of kings. Ahead stretches out the twisted wilds of Natanatan. You have been told to go south, and a path stretches before you. What do you do? Player1: We follow the path, but keep our weapons out and armor on in case we run into enemies. are we on foot or on horse? Me: You Each have a Ryshadium. Player1: OK, good. We begin to follow the trail. And so on and so on. The game is very simple and we can just post our actions on the forum, hassle free. Character making: The first five people can play. I'm sorry that I can't take more, but after that it gets too complicated to keep track of the players. However, you are welcome to start games of your own under a different topic once this five-player limit is reached. And I will make more campaigns after this one. H.P= Health Tf2= closest Tf2 character to them. Choose your Order. You will be able to use their surges, which I will list. Windrunner- Juggernauts, good for taking damage and dealing out even more. H.P: 30. Tf2: Heavy. Surges are basic, full, and reverse lashings. Lightweavers- Wizards/support. Can join part in combat, but more helpful using soul casting and light weaving as distractions. H.P: 25. Tf2: Engineer. Surges are Soulcasting and Lightweaving. Dustbringers- Ranged, set stuff on fire and turn off friction. H.P: 20. Tf2: Sniper. Surges are fire-throwing and friction manipulation. Edgedancers- Healers, move and strike fast, then retreat. H.P: 20. Tf2: Medic/Scout Sorry I can't do more, but I felt like this would be enough. If you want, you can share your characters backstory, nationality, name, spren, etc. Remember, the first five responders can play, so reply fast. More details will come out when you ask them, and you can buy equipment and stuff right before we start the mission Have fun!
  13. I have been thinking about this myself a lot lately so I wanna see what everyone else thinks. What are the Orders that everyone is most interested in, likes, or anticipates learning about the most? Feel free to discuss why and even bring up more than one if you'd like! 1. Windrunners 2. Skybreakers 3. Dustbringers 4. Edgedancers 5. Truthwatchers 6. Lightweavers 7. Elsecallers 8. Willshapers 9. Stonewards 10. Bondsmiths I am personally very interested in the Stonewards the more I looking into all the theories surrounding stones, the Shin Stone Shamans, Talenel'Elin, the Ancient of Stones, the Thunderclasts, Stones Unhallowed, etc. I even saw that Brandon had signed someone's book with a rough conceptualization of an untold ideal which was, "I will stand when others fall." That sounds very Stoneward-esque to me considering that they were supposed to be as steadfast as Taln, as well as their focus on strength. I also believe they are the one Order that did not betray their spren during the Recreance. Let me know what you all think!
  14. So I was recently able to talk to Brandon at the Ogden Signing. Recently before that I started looking at this table (The one that should be above this) and the first category really interested me, specifically the forth, and sixth columns. Inhalation, and Protecting/Leading. To me the Protecting/Leading sounded a lot like Kaladin, and his connection to Syl. his oath's are all about protecting: I will protect those who cannot protect themselves. —The Second Ideal of the Windrunners I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right. — The Third Ideal of the Windrunners And he was also a MAJOR leader of Bridge four, he is the reason that they are now free. Jump down to the next line, Just. We know that SkyBreakers use one of the same surges as Kaladin does, Gravitation, and also the surge of Division. They also fall the law to the letter, aka being just. ( based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.) If you look at a list then you will see that the SkyBreakers would use the second set of possible surges on the list (seen below) and the Windrunners use the first set possible, lining them up, if you place them on a chart, directly underneath each other. 1.Adhesion 2.Gravitation 3.Division 4.Abrasion 5.Progression 6.Illumination 7.Transformation 8.Transportation 9.Cohesion 10.Tension K so now skip down to where Shallan would be on the list...she would be the sixth (having access to the sixth, and seventh surges listed) Sixth one down on the chart, Creativity/honest. Hmm...sounds like her. Next one down, Transformation/Transportation, Wise/Careful, sound like Jasnah to you? So this gives us a base for what each of the orders of the Knights Radiant will be based upon, and also lets us know that Dalinar will be based on being Pious( devoutly religious.) which makes sense, being bonded to a God-spren. When I talked to Brandon about this he did say that these all matched up exactly, and that this did work, and also said something about Creativity being a form of lying for Shallan. Now to that other column I mentioned, the fourth one. I have no base for this, except what I see, but I do not know what Brandon has to say about it, as I can up with it shortly after talking to him. So Kaladin's body focus is Inhalation, according to the chart, I haven't had time to check this yet, but whenever Kaladin breathes in Stormlight it specifically says that he Inhales it, yet when Dalinar gets his stormlight at the end of WoR it says that he sucked in stormlight...This might be nothing but... Also when Shallan first soulcast is it a coincidence that the thing turned to Blood? Her body focus, is after all, blood. What do you guys think? Let me know.
  15. Are the Shin Stone Shamans the descendants/remnants/legacy of an Order of Knights Radiant that did not fall at the Recreance? Is that why they have all the Honorblades? As a slightly separate but related point: Was the only Order of Radiants that didn't feel betrayed, and so renounce their oaths, the one Order whose Heraldic Patron didn't lie to them about the desolations, i.e. Taln and the Stonewards? In which case, does this tie back to the theory that the Stone Shamans (the organisation that teaches that Stone is sacred and ward against its being walked upon) are the legacy of the Stonewards? Or is that a bit too much of a stretch? :-P
  16. So I was reading the part where Nalan gives Szeth Nightblood, and I was wondering, does each Herald have their own unique Order, like with Nalan his is the Skybreakers? If they do, can someone list all the Heralds and their corresponding Orders/Surges? I've figured out Nalan's is the Skybreakers and Taln's is the Stonewards, but that's about it. Can someone help? Thanks
  17. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks. After reading the Coppermine on Dustbringers, I've definitely switched from Edgedancers to Dustbringers. They can turn off friction and set stuff on fire.
  18. I searched and was not able to find anything in the forum in regards to this 'hidden order', but please point me to it if i missed it. In WoR it says that only nine of the ten orders as one would not abandon their arms and flee. Does this mean that there is an order of KR that has been roaming Roshar since the recreance? If yes my bet is the skybreakers, but I may be misinterpreting this quote. “This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at this time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal; and after they withdrew, about two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine. ” — Words of Radiance, Chapter 38, page 20
  19. There's a question to be asked: Why Nalan hunts Surgebinders? Or rather: Why does he believe that Surgebinders may cause Desolation? Let's get a timeline. I'll be puting quotes in spoiler tags. There were no Desolations before humans were on Roshar. At first, Heralds were the only Surgebinders. At one point, spren figured out what Honor did and started bonding humans which resulted in Surgebinders. Heralds became patrons of the Orders, at the same time imposing organisation on them. We know that between Desolations Radiants fighted with some monsters (Dalinar's vision with Midnight Essence). We know that Heralds are sent back to Roshar before Desolation. We know that if they stay too long after Desolation ended, another one will start. Aharietam and Recreance: The Last Desolation was 4500 years ago. There is a connection between Heralds tortured and Desolation. Kalak seems to believe that if Odium cannot torture them to break them, he can't cause a Desolation. After Heralds walked away from Oathpact, Knights Radiant did not leave their posts. Steel stores physical speed. When Recreance happened, one of the soldiers in Feverstone Keep mentioned that Radiants should be fighting devils on the front line. So even after Last Desolation monsters showed up. After Recreance there were probably no Surgebinders (or next to none, since spren turned away from humans). Honor was Shattered after Recreance (or maybe Tanavast survived Shattering long enough. It is nor clear or known.) since it is in one of the Dalinar's visions Modern times: Taravangian believes that Desolation happens when Heralds break under torture and that spren came back because it was to happen. Stormfather forbidden spren (or maybe only honorspren) bonding with humans in fear of Recreance happening again. He has to accept Words, though. Stormfather sent Dalinar visions as demanded by Tanavast. These visions request Dalinar to refind Knights Radiant Spren started bonding humans at least ten years ago (Shallan's childhood) Nalan hunts Surgebinders down because he believes that Surgebinding may cause Desolation. Voidspren started showing up en masse after "Taln" returned to Roshar. But Venli is suspected to bear stormform earlier. True Desolation seems to be triggered by chain reaction: stormspren start hijacking Listeners -> large number of stormform Parshendi exist -> Voidbringers summon Everstorm -> Everstorm circles Roshar carrying more voidspren, triggering more Voidbringers out of formless Parshmen But Radiants existed for a long time after the Last Desolation, until Recreance. When Heralds abandoned Oathpact Jezrien said "There is a chance we might end the cycle of Desolations." But that wasn't their intention, they wanted to get free of the torture. They seem to consider End of Desolations as a side effect, not the primary goal. They know that Odium is somehow bound by their torture and they're afraid he will find a way around them not returning to the Damnation. True Desolation seems to be different to the regular Desolations, but we do not know why. The question is, why would Nalan hunt Surgebinders since they existed before without triggering Desolation? Why is the True Desolation different from the previous Desolation? How is it different? What is the exact connection between Herald's torture and breaking under it, their return, release of voidspren and start of Desolation? Do spren sense Herald's coming near to point of breaking? Discuss, provide more quotes and WoBs you find relevant.
  20. So I have been re-reading WoR and have noticed something perhaps significant. So it is time for my first theory. After a few Sanderson novels, I have come to expect initial impressions and suspicions to be reversed. Who/whatever you think is the antagonist at the beginning never ends up as such. For example (beware of spoilers): -Treledees -Denth and Vasher -Preservation -The Lord Ruler (I would still say he was evil but he was not what you thought) I could probably go on. The point has been made, however, thus I won't. There is probably a similar reversal down the pipe in the Stormlight Archive. Starting with odium. I think it is fairly clear that odium is evil. Storms, he is the shard of hatred! Also, Hoid has a very poor opinion of Rayse, which probably does count for something. However, there is something else of note down this vein in the Stormlight Archive, linked to all these secret societies. We know that Gavilar was assassinated because he approached the Parshendi wishing to bring back the voidbringers. We also know that Taravangian loosely aligned with Gavilar. We also know that both of these people at least started out wishing to save the world, but it looks like what they actually tried to do was quite destructive. We also know that Ameram was interested in bringing back the voidbringers. And the ghostbloods are embroiled in all of this but we have no idea what they are looking for. So lots of people are interested in either bringing back the voidbringers or averting their return. I also want to highlight the "cover synopsis" of the Way of Kings: From the above information, I feel we can conclude two things: 1. The presence of radiants is associated with the desolations. Correctly or incorrectly, many presume a causal relationship between the return of voidbringers and the return of radiants. It would be interesting if this assumption was in fact correct. 2. The fact that both voidbringers and radiants have disappeared is not necessarily a good thing. So in light of this, Gavilar's efforts, one way or another, may have actually be saving Roshar. He tells Dalinar to "find the most important words a man can say" which probably means the radiant oaths. He tries to return the voidbringers, but this may actually be an attempt to restore the radiants as well. However, Gavilar foretells the approach of the everstorm to Taravangian. It even seems that all of his efforts are to prepare for the everstorm. So why would he be trying to bring back voidbringers? Wouldn't he realize that the voidbringers would cause the everstorm? It is possible he did not. Or perhaps the everstorm would have come eventually even if Eshonai hadn't caused it. Then there is also the motives of the society Ameram is a member of. We don't know very much about those other than that Ameram wants the voidbringers to return. I am inclined to believe Ameram's motives are not good, based on what he did to Kaladin. And there is the ghostbloods, which contains worldhoppers. The presence of worldhoppers implies that their motives are connected to the actual struggle between shards of adolnasium, something I doubt the others are keenly aware of or embroiled in. However, their motives are as of yet an enigma. All that being said, this theory doesn't really have a resounding conclusion. On the contrary, I am really making the point that we are probably wrong about a lot. Nevertheless, in conclusion: The return of the voidbringers means more than we think it does. Given that multiple groups are competing to return the voidbringers, there is probably some benefit to be had for whoever first creates voidbringers. However, restoring the voidbringers might not be as insane of an idea as we think. Gavilar might actually have been saving Roshar.
  21. Of the 10 orders of the Knights Radiant, seven are named after surges: Windrunners- Gravitation Skybreakers- Division Bondsmiths- Adhesion Elsecallers- Transportation Lightweavers- Illumination Willshapers- Cohesion Edgedancers- Abrasion That leaves three orders: Dustbringers Stonewards Truthwatchers that aren't named after surges. It also leaves three surges: Growth/Regrowth Transformation Tension that don't have a specific order focusing on them. Renarin (truthwatcher) states that he "sees things." That makes me wonder, do the other two orders have special powers too, or is it just a cool sounding name? Interesting note, Windrunner's order name focuses on gravitation, and Lightweaver focuses on illumination. Kaladin's book focused on gravitation, and Shallan's focused on illumination. Tell me what you think below.
  22. Two WoBs from late 2010 plus an April 2016 WoB provide insight into the relationship between spren and the Knight Radiant (“KR”) Orders. I haven’t seen this discussed anywhere, so I thought I’d take a crack at it. As always, these are MY interpretations of the WoBs. SUMMARY 1. I think Radiantspren are made from two “lesser” spren, each of which Focuses a single power. I speculate a “lesser” spren is a sentient, pre-Shattering spren like gravityspren, firespren and lifespren. 2. IMO, the interaction of an appropriate spren and a “concept or an ideal mixed with an essence” is what defines the KR Orders and determines their placement around the KR “Round Table” (what I call the KR chart at the front of WoK…the KR are Knights, after all).I believe the “concepts/ideals” come from Honor. 3. I think each KR Order’s Secondary Divine Attribute determines that Order’s intrinsic “third” power, the one that’s “of their own.” These include Windrunner squires (“Leadership”) and Lightweaver mnemonic abilities (“Honesty”). 4. “Concepts/ideals” change over time, as human perceptions and ideas change. I believe Surgebinders may have evolved with these changes. This may be the reason Nohadon wrote the in-world Way of Kings – to forever fix his own concepts/ideals of the KR. RELEVANT WOBS Here are the three WoBs I rely on: From October 15, 2010 17th Shard Interview (excerpted, emphasis added): From December 25, 2010 Stormblessed.com Interview (excerpted, emphasis added): From April 23, 2016 JordanCon Report, excerpted, emphasis added): ANALYSIS Spren Combinations I think the reference to “two of the ‘smaller’ magic systems” in the October 2010 WoB means that Radiantspren are a combination of two of the “lesser” spren. Each pre-Shattering spren IMO is the Focus for a different power. That's why Radiantspren can Focus two powers. Some posters speculate that honorspren are an evolved form of windspren, and cryptics are an evolved form of creationspren. I think windspren and creationspren have already" evolved" from Adonalsium spren with an infusion of Cultivation's Investiture. The difference between these spren and honorspren and cryptics, IMO, is Honor's Nahel bond. IOW, an honorspren is a windspren bound by the Stormfather to a KR, and a cryptic is a bonded creationspren. KR Order “Concept/Ideals”: Primary and Secondary “Divine Attributes” The 2016 WoB defines spren as “pieces of Investiture…that because of human or other sapient creatures thinking about…or interacting with the power…take on a life of its own.” Power leaks into the Cognitive Realm to Invest the ideas there. IMO, each Radiantspren represents the power that Invests the idea of their “Primary Divine Attribute.” These Attributes are set forth in the WoK and WoR Ars Arcana charts. In the Meaning of Primary and Secondary Attributes?, I assert Primary Attributes attract the spren to a KR, and Secondary Attributes are “how that person behaves once the Nahel bond is in place.” IOW, spren seek only the Primary Attribute in a KR to decide whether to bond with them. KRs’ Secondary Attributes may be the “something…of their own” peculiar to each Order. Windrunners’ Secondary Attribute of “Leadership” is why they command more squires than other Orders. Lightweavers’ Secondary Attribute of “Honesty” causes their mnemonic abilities – an accurate (“honest”) memory. Skybreakers’ Secondary Attribute of “Confidence” gives them their “almost divine skill” to divide “the innocent from the guilty.” ( Chapters 55, 54 Epigraphs.) KR Order “Essences” Brandon says the “concept/ideal” is “mixed with an essence.” I speculate that the “essences” listed in the WoK/WoR Ars Arcana charts are the same ones the glyphs in the Round Table represent. These “essences” are “what they call the elements of this world.” (December 2010 WoB, quoted above.) I presume “they” refers to the “philosophers from ancient days, who created those tables.” I speculate those “philosophers” were Vorin, although that's uncertain. Khriss created these charts based on Nazh’s input. Jasnah tells us the Vorins destroyed or manipulated pre-Vorin writing. I suggest Khriss/Nazh have no source for their information other than Vorin texts. As Nyali and Skaa have noted, the “essences” on this chart seem mostly to align with earth’s “classical” elements of earth, fire, water and air. “Mostly” because two of the essences do not – the “life” or “aether” (“divine”?) essences associated with the Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers. Thus, the “air” essences align with Windrunners and Skybreakers, who can “fly” by manipulating the Gravitation Surge. The “fire” essences align with Skybreakers and Releasors, who share the Abrasion Surge. The “water” essences align with Lightweavers and Elsecallers, who share the Transformation Surge (presumably because water is “fluid”). The “earth” essences align with Willshapers and Stonewards, who share the Cohesion Surge (presumably because earth coheres into various solid states). The other two Orders, Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers, align with the “life” or “aether” essences. Their specific Surges seem less significant than their “divine” functions: bonding and foreseeing the future. All life requires bonding, and the growth (“cultivation”) of life requires foresight. Brandon says the sequence of Surges (and hence KR Orders) around the Round Table mirror Roshar’s natural forces; their sequence is neither accidental nor arbitrary. This is consistent with the foregoing classification of essences and the following quote from the WoR Chapter 35 Epigraph: the placement of each Nahel bond “was related to the bonds that drive Roshar itself, ten Surges, named in turn and two for each order.” The History of Surgebinders – Changes Over Time Concepts and ideas change over time. Thought is not static. Brandon describes the interaction of thought and power at the Madison OdysseyCon (emphasis added): This WoB highlights the circular nature of the interaction. Spren come from our perceptions, but the KR oaths come from the spren. What would have happened if humans first perceived Surgebinders as “super” men and women unbound to any rules but their own? Would the spren who emulated the Honorblades have changed to be consistent with this perception? Perhaps that’s why Ishar immediately “caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws.” (WoR Chapter 42 Epigraph). This quote suggests that Ishar created the Orders, or at least their predecessors. But we don’t know what “precepts and laws” he obligated Surgebinders to follow. We also don’t know how accurate this in-world Words of Radiance statement is or whether this in-world book was written before or after Nohadon’s in-world Way of Kings and was therefore influenced by it. It’s possible there WAS no “organization” or bonding to “precepts and laws” before Nohadon, and the in-world Words of Radiance is simply wrong. We do know that Nohadon thought that “not all spren are as discerning as honorspren.” We also know that Surgebinders fought each other during his time. The fact that Surgebinders would seek prominence over one other and fight to achieve it strongly suggests the in-world Words of Radiance author may have been wrong about what Ishar did. Nohadon’s book sought to change that. His parables caused perceptions of Surgebinders to change and the KR to form. Radiantspren changed to accommodate these new perceptions: oaths arose to ensure the incremental accretion of both responsibility and power in equal amounts. Oaths are the “safety valve” to prevent Surgebinder wars and Surgebinder dominance over “mere” humans. The Recreance and the advent of Vorinism destroyed existing Surgebinders and the ability of spren to create new ones (even had they wanted to). Surgebinders and the KR were now viewed as “evil” and untrustworthy. I suggest the spren would not have returned to bond with humans had Nohadon’s book not found its way back from obscurity. This is why I think so many Kholins are potential Surgebinders – they’ve all read the in-world Way of Kings or had read the book read to them, absorbing its ideals.
  23. When I first read WoK, I thought that Batman would make a good Windrunner. This thread is for the discussion of anyone in any media (Including Sanderson books) whose situation and driving motivations are similar to those of an Order of Knight Radiant. The Doctor is a prime example of what I mean. He has basically dedicated his life to protecting the innocent, but Rule Number One is that the Doctor lies. I think that the Doctor's scarred past leads him more towards a Lightweaver, trying to bring out the best in people. However, he does need to face some more hidden character traits.
  24. What Shardplate really is and how it's created is still a big mystery even though we've learnt what Shardblades are. But it seems like Shardplate can't just be made of spren like Shardblades or Surgebinders would be able to hear their screams. This theory owes a nod to cris34b's thread about the Surgebinding Chart, which got me thinking about the relationships between the different orders of the Knights Radiant. He noticed that as well as lines connecting the orders that share Surges there are also lines connecting the "opposite" orders who would seem to have nothing in common. In particular we have a line connecting Windrunners and Lightweavers, and we know just how different those orders are. So my theory is this: in order to create Shardplate for someone, a Knight Radiant must co-operate with a member of the opposite order. I don't know how exactly it would work, but any two Surgebinders working together would be very powerful and possibly have some very strange co-operative abilities. The reason I think this might be true is that it adds another level of checks to the power of a Surgebinder. They progress in strength as they speak ideals (or ideal-equivalents) and with each ideal they are bound to behave in certain ways in order to retain their abilities. That solidifies each order's specific mission, which should serve to make them a unified body, but it doesn't do anything to make the different orders part of a greater whole. If the only way to create Shardplate is to work together with the order with which you have the least in common, then the entire organisation of the Knights Radiant are bound together. To get stronger, to do more, they have to work together. On a storytelling level this would mean that Kaladin and Shallan need to continue to work together, and that Dalinar will have to help Renarin create his Shardplate. I suspect that won't be so easy for Dalinar to accept, but that might be a discussion for a different day.
  25. So I was reading the coppemind wiki and it said that windrunner's colour of shardplate is blue,and from the books we also see that kaladin's eyes(when he ingests stormlight) and sylblade are blue in color as he is a member of the order of windrunners,and I also noticed the the color of glyph of the windrunners is blue (windrunners obviously have a lot of blue) so my question is do other orders also have their shardplate,shardblade and eye color turn to the color of their order's glyphs? For example,the dustbringer's colour of glyph is red,the truthwatchers is green,the bondsmiths is yellow etc What further makes me think this way is that,kaladin's original eye color is brown,so if ingesting stomlight or bonding a shardblade will make a darkeyes eye color brighten then it would make kaladin's eye color to become very light brown or tan like what happened to moash when he bonded with his shardblade BUT kaladin's eye color did not change to light brown/tan it changed to blue which is the color of the order of windrunners. So will we see dalinar's eye turn to yellow or renarin's to green? OATHBRINGER SPOILER! I just thought I should add this,I read kaldin's sample chapter from book three at tor and in the chapter it is said that if kaladin doesn't ingest stormlight or summons his sylblade for a long time,his eye colour reverts back to dark brown,if he does either of the actions his eye color will start to glow blue again
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