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I got the impression (unless I read it somewhere and forgot) that Elhokar wanted to lead the raid on Kholinar because he expected to die, but he wanted to bring Kaladin because he thought he would make sure it would succeed. Maybe he intended to go out with honor or glory, or maybe he just wanted to get himself out of the way. Or maybe he really did want to be responsible for freeing his city, and wanted to have a hand in it. Thoughts?

I've been thinking that Moash and Kaladin are maybe a bit like opposites; they were in a similar situation -- being in the bridge crews after tragedy befalling them or their families -- and Moash clings to revenge and he has that singular focus, while Kaladin turns away from revenge and arrives at the realization "I will protect even those I hate." (Speaking of which; isn't that such a totally mind-blowing statement?? I don't know if I could do that.) It seemed to me like they arrived at a similar crossroads and took opposite paths. Turning aside from selfish concerns to selfless ones. Thoughts?

....that it’s only a matter of time before they have sex. As soon as they met they hated each other — that is fiction-speak for “these two people will end up together”. It’s like the saying “if you see a gun in the first act, it had better go off by the third act.” Now that Shallan is married, it’ll be a torrid love affair. As I read Oathbringer I thought for sure it would happen by the end of the book, but no such luck. Maybe Brandon is a pleasure-delayer.... That begs the question: what would these books be rated? PG? PG-13? R? It would be cool to see more R rated stuff.... just saying but it’s probably more like PG-13.

As much as I loved Oathbringer, there is one aspect that left me feeling unfulfilled, and that is Kaladin’s character progression, or lack thereof. He's my favorite character so I am attentive and sensitive to his specific storyline. By the end of the book I felt that he had no growth, no successes, several failures, and little impact on the story overall. I thought he had a few nice moments with his family, Bridge Four, and Syl, and made some progress with his negative thought patterns and mental state, but these things seemed to have very little effect on his actions within the story. Note the results of his specific plot threads: Hearthstone (Fail/No Impact/Unresolved) Kaladin’s goal here was to warn and prepare the town for the everstorm. He arrived too late for that. Once he reached the citylord manor, the town residents had already organized themselves, injuries were treated, and they were as safe as could be expected in the circumstance. He left to search for the parshmen with the promise to return at a later time. By the end of the book Alethkar had been taken over by voidbringers and the Alethi are captured or taking refuge in other countries. Kaladin never returned to check on his family and we don’t know their current status. Parshmen (Fail/Unresolved) Kaladin spent most of Part 1 traveling with the parshmen. He befriended them and taught them basic survival skills. This sets up an interesting dilemma for him. He feels empathy with these people and begins to question the “us and them” mentality, who the real enemies are, and the distinction between untransformed parshmen/former slaves vs. fused/voidforms/agents of Odium. He abruptly flies away from his friendly parshmen at the end of Part 1 and we never fully revisit this issue. He had one argument with Jasnah in Part 2, but otherwise there is no resolution or further discussion about how to handle the parshmen or the human prisoners left in pens in Alethkar. Additionally, Kaladin’s band of friendly parshmen became Moash’s team and participated in the king’s assassination and overtaking the palace. Kholinar (Fail) The objective here was to rescue the queen and prince and open the oathgate so the Alethi troops could retake Kholinar. Turns out that Aesudan is hosting an unmade, Gavinor is taken by the enemy, Elhokar is dead, the palace and Kholinar are lost, Kaladin goes catatonic while watching his men kill each other, the oathgate is inhabited by another unmade, and our four surviving heroes end up trapped in Shadesmar. Kaladin’s squires were left behind, and they were the ones to rescue Gavinor and bring him to safety, a task Elhokar has specifically assigned to Kaladin. Protect Dalinar (Fail/Low Impact) Kaladin’s time in Shadesmar primarily revolves around the vision of Dalinar with nine shadows and his strong sense of urgency to get to Thaylen City to protect Dalinar. They arrive at the Thaylen City oathgate to find it guarded by fused. Kaladin tries to distract them, but ultimately runs out of stormlight and falls into the sea of beads, where he is rescued by Syl. They are finally saved by Dalinar’s perpendicularity, which happens after his confrontation with Odium. Kaladin played no part in that fight, so his vision had no real purpose or payoff. He later distracts the fused as Dalinar confronts Nergaoul, but Kaladin had very little impact on that fight. Probably any member of Bridge Four could have filled this role for Dalinar. Fourth Ideal (Fail) Several scenes in the book seem to foreshadow Kaladin’s speaking the fourth ideal. This includes the wind-shield scene in Part 1 and the wind spren forming around him in Shadesmar. In part 5, he finally gets to the point where he knows the words and tries to speak them, but he cannot bring himself to do it. He breaks down in tears and is comforted by Syl, resulting in the biggest let-down moment of the entire book (for me). Compare this to Teft, who has apparently said three ideals in the same book and is now at the same level as Kaladin. Amaram (Fail) Amaram has been Kaladin's arch nemesis since Book 1 Chapter 1. A final confrontation between the two of them has been overshadowing Kaladin’s story for three books, and as a reader I have been anxiously awaiting it. We finally get to it in Part 5. Not only is he confronting Amaram, he is also confronting an unmade, Yelig-nar (Blightwind). The symmetry of having Shallan confront Re-Shephir, Dalinar confront Nergaoul, and Kaladin confront Yelig-nar in the same book seems so perfect. Each of these unmade have a resonance with their respective orders and personalities. Well, Kaladin fails again here. He runs out of stormlight and is nearly killed by Amaram/Yelig-nar, only to be rescued in the last minute by Rock, who makes the killing blow. Shallan (Fail/No impact) The weird love triangle. The entire purpose of this sub-plot seems to have been to highlight Shallan’s multiple personas. One of them likes Adolin, one of them likes Kaladin, they other one is just confused. In the end, Shallan determines that Veil, the persona who likes Kaladin, has bad taste in men. Shallan does not realize that these personalities are all part of her and that these are her own thoughts and feelings. She has no growth from this situation and she seems to be worse off at the end of the book than when she started. Kaladin also has no growth from it. The Helaran discussion did not come up at all. This whole arc seems to have had very little impact on the story or characters. Mental Issues (Progress/No Impact/Unresolved) This is one area that Kaladin seems to have made some progress. Unfortunately, none of this progress seemed to have any positive effect on the events of the story. He stepped up as a radiant and stopped hiding. His attitude towards lighteyes was greatly improved, to the point that he became friends with a group of lighteyed soldiers whose deaths he later mourned. He did not flinch when referred to as “Brightlord.” When he felt himself slipping into a dark place after the Kholinar catastrophe, he reflected on his depression, determined that it was illogical, and talked to Shallan about how she stays positive. These are big steps for him and I would have loved to see him be extra-awesome as a result of these positive changes. Instead, his actions and failures all seem to be ruled by his primary unresolved issue, which is guilt and grief over the people he failed to protect. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I find it odd that one of the main protagonists of the series would spend an entire 1200+ page book with very little growth, impact or resolution, so perhaps I am missing something important. Did others feel this way, or do you think he made progress as a character? Was he put on hold to be continued at a later date due to the vast amount of material in this book? Is the lack of forward momentum part of his development? Why would he go stagnant at a time where he is embracing his radiant-ness? Are all of these failures tied to his Fourth Ideal in some way? I want to find the progression for his character in this book, and I’m not sure what it is.

A while ago, I had a disagreement with my friends about whether or not Kaladin liked Shallan and vice versa. What do you think?

Not romantically. But she's been bossing him around in that friendly way of hers. And they'd make a pretty awesome BROTP.

Ok, so my theory is that Vyre will become a Radiant of the Order of Skybreakers. In terms of Evidence to back this up, we have the fact that Vyre is very focused on Vengeance, and for bringing Justice to Elhokar for past crimes. We Have the fact that when Kaladin was going to kill Amaram, Syl told him that he wasn’t a Skybreaker so he shouldn’t, however Vyre DID decide to kill Elhokar. We have the fact that both Vyre and Nale came to the decision that the parshmen are the rightful rulers of Roshar, so Nale is set up perfectly to mentor Vyre. Also, we have information in the Epigraphs that the Skybreakers and the Windrunners are always at odds, so adding this extra layer to the Kaladin/Vyre confrontation will be quite interesting. Finally, Vyre is being set up as the new Assasin in White, so if he also became a Skybreaker it would make sense. So what do you guys think? Is Vyre some other Order of Radiant?

I don't know if this was already posted, but it was too good to resist!

Hey guys I was just thinking what if events turn such as kaladin becomes Odium's champion. He will not have to break any oath to do so as he will not be fighting anyone who cannot protect himself and also if fourth ideal is to leave those whom you cannot protect or to forgive yourself then what if he decides that there is no hope for human to survive and joins Odium's to protect parshendi and he will have to fight Seth in contest of champions, also Brandon have a thing for doing what is most unlikely so maybe. So, what do you guys think.

I've done some hunting but there's something about the Thrill I don't understand. We know that the Thrill isn't genetic but instead has to do with the location of Nergaoul. That's probably recursive; Alethela was designated to train soldiers, so Nergaoul got to do his thing, so the Alethi liked to fight more. I understand Kaladin is immune to the thrill: but I'm not clear on why. His immunity seems to extend to his squires, none of whom display the affects of the Thrill so far as we can tell. Seems to me that if you were to ask Kaladin "do you feel the Thrill?" he'd be like "what?" Is it a function of Windrunning? Being Radiant doesn't seem to be mutually exclusive from feeling the Thrill and frankly I don't know why it would be. The Unmade's aura effects seem to behave differently (Ashertmarn's temptation is highly localized and intense, Moelach's deathrattles are widespread but inconsistent, and Re-Shephir's presence could be felt by some but not by others). Also, despite the Nergaoul taking over Sadeas' army, Adolin doesn't seem to feel the Thrill at all at Theylan Field, despite having admitted in WoK that he does feel it. He misses like the first half of the battle, sure, but doesn't feel it or seem to notice that its missing. I could keep rambling about weirdness that I keep noticing about the Thrill (Szeth, for example, also doesn't seem to feel it) but the bottom line is there seems to be something I'm missing regarding how it works and who feels it and who doesn't. Also, yes this is my first post. Been lurking for a while though.

I made this account yesterday, shortly after finishing the WoR and deciding to scour the interwebs for answers to my questions. I've been reading these forums for two days now, and haven't come across any mention of the Shash brand on Kaladin's forehead. It's one of the things I find most interesting about him, and here's why: Lopen taught himself to use Stormlight, and immediately his arm began to regrow. A severed limb is something that would have been completely covered with scar tissue in these times, and would likely have been cauterized to avoid an almost certain death. This (in physiological terms, at least) makes it identical to Kaladin's scar. However, I believe that it's been made abundantly clear that the Shash brand on Kaladin's forehead is just something he is going to live with forever (and he won't be covering it up with a tattoo, either). The books have made no mention of Kaladin trying specifically to heal the scar with stormlight, and I don't believe they ever will. He is probably able to do it, but being that he is bound to an Honorspren, I think he feels morally obligated to be honest, even with those whom he is about to kill. His scar tells even those who do not know him that whether he is a free man or a slave, being in his presence is tantamount to being in the presence of danger. And what is Kaladin, if not honest? Let me know if I'm missing something here.

It seems, to me, like there is a set-up for Odium to choose Vyre as his champion, and Dalinar to choose Kaladin as his. Both thinking that their champion will overcome their friendship. I do think that Kaldin's fourth Ideal will either manifest here, or already have done so, allowing him to defeat an old friend.

Aaand here is the second part of my Cosmere tattoo journey!! The Bridge Four tattoo that everyone gets in the book after they are freed from Sadeas and becomes Dalinar Kholin's and the Kholin's bodyguards and eventually storming awesome Radiants!! Here's hoping, I'll become one, if I believe hard enough!! Hey, hey Kaladin! Hit me up! I'd be an excellent Bridge Four candidate!! Looking forward to hearing from you, Kaladin Storm leased and you too, Syl!!

I believe Odium’s forces – led by Moash – will kidnap Shallan. I think Odium needs either a Lightweaver or a Cryptic for some reason – perhaps to “re-make” Re-Shephir, whose captivity seems to have diminished her. Kaladin and Adolin lead Shallan’s rescue attempt. Kaladin secures Shallan, and Adolin fights furiously to allow Kaladin and Shallan to escape. He demands Kaladin leave him and take Shallan to safety. With no other choice, Kaladin finally speaks the Fourth Oath – (IMO) “I will protect the one I can save.” That’s the summary; here are the details. There’s a bit of evidence here and there, but, needless to say, this post is mostly invention, a tale. Foreshadowing Kaladin’s faced this situation before, when the Fused wound Adolin in Shadesmar. “Leave me,” Adolin said, coughing.” (OB, Chapter 117, Kindle p. 1116.) But Kaladin couldn’t leave him and “couldn’t say those Words. He wasn’t strong enough.” (OB, Chapter 118, Kindle p. 1132.) I believe Kaladin will have a second chance. He will say the Fourth Oath this time. I do not predict Adolin will die (though that’s possible). Maybe he’ll be an Edgedancer by then and escape himself. But Kaladin IMO will leave Adolin to protect Shallan, the one he can save. Odium’s Need for Cryptic The best evidence Odium needs a Cryptic is the OB Epilogue, where Hoid bonds one. Hoid notices the Fused breaking down the palace, as if searching for something. The Fused are not keen on Radiant spren of any type. But to me this shows surprising dedication to find Elhokar's Cryptic. The Fuseds’ motivation is unclear, but I link it to Shallan’s encounter with Re-Shephir. Shallan and Re-Shephir Re-Shephir’s captivity traumatized it. When it meets Shallan, Re-Shephir wants to replace Pattern and bond Shallan: Re-Shephir now knows Shallan as well as Shallan knows it, the perfect environment for bonding. Shallan says Re-Shephir is like a “wrong” creationspren. I suspect Cryptics are like the “right” creationspren. IOW, creationspren form the base of both Re-Shephir and Cryptics, which is why Shallan attracts them. I speculate Re-Shephir needs to be “Re-Made” - it’s become too fearful. I envision two possibilities – start from scratch with a new Cryptic or bond Re-Shephir to a Lightweaver to stabilize it. Either way, Pattern and Shallan will be natural Odium targets. Moash Why Moash? Odium clearly has plans for him. His star rises among the Fused when he kills Jezrien and accepts the Honorblade and the name Vyre. (Will he form a relationship with Lady Leshwi?) The human Moash can scout and enter places Singers can’t readily go. Five Singers Moash helped and fought with “want to be near” him – Khen, Pal, Nam, and two others. (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1222.) I see them forming the rudiments of a Singer Bridge Four. They are a natural strike force to steal Shallan. If Moash (or Odium) noticed Kaladin’s agony at seeing his friends kill one another, this group will be hard for Kaladin to deal with. Adolin must take the larger role in the fight because Kaladin may not be able to kill his friends. I don’t think this will be the last Kaladin-Moash confrontation. I believe Moash retains his loyalty and friendship to Kaladin on simmer regardless of what he thinks of other humans and their society. In the end, I think this one Connection will be enough to cause Moash to waver. Only Brandon knows if Moash dies or changes sides again. Conclusion All of this is raw but, IMO, reasonable speculation. Something to ponder as a possibility, nothing more.

This is my first post. I have been lurking on here for a while and thought it was about time I joined. I wanted to convey some thoughts after reading the last few chapters released. Adolin, whether due to his resentment of the way he was spoken to during the pershendi fight, or whether he generally gets a bad vibe, seems to hold some animosity toward Kaladin. In turn Kaladin thinks Adolin is "cocky" and "spoiled". Now we know that both characters are pretty decent guys. We also can deduce that both characters will probably become fully fledged radiants. (Obvious with Kaladin, and Adolin has now started to lose the thrill during his duels, just like Dalinar has with plateau assaults, indicating a lean more toward the radiant methodology of fighting only for morally sound reasons). I think Brandon is teeing these two up to become best buds. Kaladin is now wishing to practice with someone of great skill and who better than the dual master himself Adolin? (I would love a scenario where Adolin beats everyone in duals, then somehow insults Kaladin and instigates a dual and is surprised by the outcome.) I think it is likely that they will both eventually come to deeply respect one another (probably in a situation where one is forced to help the other because it's the right thing to do and therefor sets light to a great friendship) and may both participate jointly in the defense against Seth. Am I on my own in thinking these two look like becoming best buds? I also think that the relationship could be sparked via an incident involving renarin. This would fit nicely into Kaladins own brotherly history.

Hi Sanderfans/Sharders, I will be posting a series of "scrolls" about Moshe Feder, Brandon's Tor editor, on my blog. Moshe was the person who "discovered" Brandon and acquired Brandon's sixth novel Elantris in 2003. In 2005, Elantris became Brandon's first published novel. Moshe has kindly agreed to be interviewed for this series. Here is the first "scroll" in case any of you are interested to check it out: http://shazarose.blogspot.com/2018/08/moshe-man-behind-copper-mind-scroll-1.html This is the first scroll in what is expected to be a multi-short scroll series on Moshe. A future planned "scroll" will document half of Brandon's twin inspiration for including characters like Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar, who all suffer from various mental health issues, in his Stormlight Archive series. Moshe himself is one half of this inspiration, and I will be documenting Moshe's bout of bipolar that he wants to share in order to help raise awareness about mental health issues. When I asked him if it would be a painful thing for him to share, he had this to say: "Not painful to share. It’s a duty to help fellow sufferers and to work on reducing stigma. When I was Corflu (fanzine fan con) GoH, it was a major part of my speech." Hope you do enjoy the series if you decide to check it out! Warmest Regards Sharon Hooper