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A sudden thought. Dalinar is a Bondsmith of Honor. Honor is dead. Odium talks to Dalinar and implies that Dalinar has the power to release Odium from the contracts/bonds Honor has placed on Odium. My conclusion from this is that in becoming the Bondsmith of Honor - by virtue of Honor being dead - Dalinar has become essentially the Executor of Honor's Will, and can enter new contracts, and modify existing contracts/Oaths on Honor's behalf. One of these contracts is the Oathpact. Thoughts?

In one of Dalinars flashbacks, he met a beggar in The Beggar's Court at the Royal Palace to share his drink. Could this beggar have been Jezrien, The Herald King, Patron of the Windrunner later killed truly by Moash?

We learned a lot of information in Oathbringer, and it's taken me quite a few days to process what I've read. A lot of that processing seems to happen as I'm lying in bed half asleep, and that is where this theory comes from. TDLR; Surges came first, Honor bound them to Heralds and his Investiture via the Oathpact, and this was done to help stop surges from destroying Roshar during Desolations. Now that the TLDR is out of the way, let me actually explain where my brain went with this. 1. Humans, according to OB, came to Roshar because they'd destroyed their home with Surgebinding. -- I believe that it's being called surgebinding because that's how the powers are known on Roshar at this time. My theory postulates that humans had Surges, ALL surges, in an unchecked manner and this led to the Cataclysm on Ashyn (likely) or whatever their original home was. They were able to use Surges because it it simply just channeled/focused Investiture. It did not *require* Stormlight, but whatever the equivalent is where they are from. 2. Humans came to Roshar, as refugees, Odium followed them, and they were accepted there. -- At first they settled in fine, but then decided they wanted more... seems plausible. In the book we're told the humans were the enemy in the first Desolation (if not some of the first few Desolations). I can buy this. They would have been seen as invaders, as is evident by the Fused's hatred of humanity. There are still remnants of human worship of Odium on Roshar (in the form of Thaylen Passions, as one example). 3. Odium is the side with the most Passion. -- I believe the reason Dalinar's visions show humans fighting humans fighting parsh, et al, is because there were not distinct sides. Odium basically liked to stoke the coals and cause a ruckus in order to inspire passion. Early Desolations were a manifestation of this I believe, and throughout the years people simply gravitated to the side they were more comfortable with. 4. Early Surges were unchecked. Hence, the Oathpact. -- Here comes part of the meat of my theory. I believe early use of surges were unchecked, and all surges were accessible by anyone who drew upon Investiture to use them. This made them extremely dangerous. Also I believe ANY Investiture could fuel them. Therefore my theory postulates that 9 of the Heralds (not Taln) were men and women who could use all surges AND were in positions of power in Roshar were chosen by Odium during the creation of the Oathpact. The Oathpact was a way for Honor to allow Surges to remain on this world, but be limited and bound by oaths, so as to not destroy it like it did the previous world humans occupied. Taln was selected by Honor. I don't necessarily think the Heralds were told they were selected or by whom. I also think this is why today it's called Surgebinding. Honor literally bound the Surges, and bound them to HIS Investiture, created the Honorblades as a way to limit how many surges of what type could be used in conjunction and that this is the basic idea of the Oathpact. Honor did not want these surges on Roshar all the time, so the agreement was made that after each Desolation the Heralds would go to Damnation to give humans time without them. I don't think Honor counted on the Spren trying to mimic the Honorblades. The KR were then formed to keep the spren in check and to keep humans further bound by oaths in order to use Surges. This was all rolled into the Oathpact. EDIT: After reading some WoBs I'm adjusting my theory a bit to account for information I did not have while sleeping... 5. Odium sidesteps the Oathpact. -- Once the Surges were no longer free to be used by anyone, Odium was at a disadvantage. He began by torturing the Heralds, trying to corrupt them. I think their Connection to Honor was too strong to be corrupted, so he turned to the next best thing... the spirits of the dead parsh from the early Desolations. (He still tortured the Heralds, as we know, and he did so to begin new Desolations as soon as he could following the last one). He couldn't allow them to use Surges, since he Surgebinding is bound by the Oathpact, but he sidesteps this with what we know as "Voidbinding", a corrupted version of Surges, likely powered by one or more of the Unmade. This is legal since the Unmade are not likely part of the Oathpact. 6. The Death of Honor. -- Wild tin-foil part of this theory is that the Heralds themselves, with the help of Odium, killed Tanavast and splintered Honor. WHY??? Why would the Heralds do this?? Because he was weakening. I posit that the Heralds believed that if Tanavast was killed someone would take up the Shard and strengthen Honor and keep the Oathpact strong. Odium swooped in and Splintered Honor before that could happen. This is all extremely unlikely, but it kind of fits the narrative I have going here so I forced myself to write it anyway. So, here we have it. This is what I ended up with after digesting the information given to us in Oathbringer. I only have a physical copy of the book, so I don't have actual quotes in this post, but I can probably work to find some. I'm pretty happy with this theory, even though I'm probably wrong in most, if not all, of it, but it's what my brain concluded while I was asleep so I thought I'd share and see what the other more-cosmere-aware folks here thought about it.

Hold the secret that broke the Knights Radiant. You may need it to destroy the new orders when they return. - WOR Chapter 84 epigraph (decoded) Now, as the Windrunners were thus engaged, arose the event which has hitherto been referenced: namely, that discovery of some wicked thing of eminence -- WOR Chapter 38 epigraph These epigraphs strongly imply that the Recreance was precipitated by the KR discovering some terrible fact. It doesn't seem to have been tied to any corruption that may have crept in to the Orders (the taxes for travel through Urithiru, etc.) Now, here's something anomalous. The Desolations devastated Roshar, killing something like 90 percent of the human population and knocking technology back to the stone age, at least sometimes. Yet when Honor was Splintered (after the Recreance -- he remembers it in the visions) there seems to have been no such cataclysm. Aharietiam is still seen as "the Last Desolation", which it wouldn't be if another apocalyptic event had occurred since the Recreance. Similarly, Odium Splintered Devotion and Dominion on Sel. But humanity on that planet survived; he didn't destroy the planet, depopulate it, or warp it into some kind of a hellscape. So why the devastating, lethal Desolations on Roshar before the Recreance? Because humans were fighting on Honor's side. Odium doesn't really care about killing humans, except incidentally to getting at the Shards; nothing much below the power-level of a Herald registers on his "radar screen" Therefore, my proposal for the Secret That Broke The KR is: Honor's been feeding us into a meat grinder for thousands of years to protect Cultivation and a couple of alien gods we'll never see. If we let Odium win, nothing bad really happens to humanity. Honor betrayed us. Our spren have been in on it, all along - they're pieces of Honor. So let him die.

Prepare your tinfoil hats and bear with me. So I found this little WoB on facebook: QUESTIONER: Is Adolin and Shallan going to get together, or will Kaladin and Shallan? BRANDON SANDERSON: That is quite the question. I will eventually answer that, but you are getting Read-and-Find-Outed. It is intentionally a bit of a mimicry of something else that happened in the past. [Source: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34-arcanum-unbounded-seattle-signing/#e5903] And it immediately made me (and other people, based on the comments) think of the Honor-Cultivation-Odium situation that supposedly happened. The obvious reaction to that would be that Shallan, as the female is Cultivation and Kaladin, having a HONORspren would be Honor...or would he? Now let's look at this little blurb from the back of WoK: There are four whom we watch. The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar’s mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes. The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key. One of them may redeem us. And one of them will destroy us. So the possibilities for Odium's champion are: - Szeth (too obvious) - Shallan (we already ruled that out) - Dalinar (but it'd spoil his "redemption arc" with turning from being the blood-lusty Blackthorn to being the wise leader) - Kaladin (who even based solely on this blurb I'd guess to be the Champion.) So we have a proof that the "Darth Adolin" theory that became so popular, seeing him as the obvious choice for the Champion is pure chulldung as he's not even mentioned and if this "love triangle" is really supposed to mimic the situation with rosharan shards, we'll probably all cry for Kaladin. A lot. Feel free to yell at me if you disagree or if this has been said before. OB pre-released chapters spoilers hat (I think) back up Kaladin being the Odium's champion:

What follows is my current theory on how the 10 Heralds became the 10 fool's through the coarse of the Desolations. I will update this post as it evolves. I will try to provide links to all WOB. Quotes will come from the kindle versions of the books via cut and paste. I will list book, chapter, and location number. Bold will be my emphasis. Italics will be possible contradictory evidence. Number 18 here From Reddit Fantasy Bookclub Q&A with Brandon Sanderson Feb 28th, 2011 We will start with this quote which shows us all Heralds were in WOK. First, the Desolations occurred when the Heralds were sent back to Roshar after one of them broke under the torture of Odium. Second, each Herald is associated with a primary and secondary Divine Attribute. (Possibly primary from Honor, Secondary from Cultivation?) Third, the torture does not happen in the physical realm. It occurs in either the cognitive, or more likely the spiritual realm. Fourth, when Odium breaks a Herald, he is literally breaking part of that Heralds spiritual connection to the Divine Attribute. Fifth, Odium's goal was to break all the Heralds and bring about the the Everstorm, allowing him to shatter Honor and Cultivation. Sixth, breaking the Divine Attributes shifted them towards something more compatible with Odium and less compatible with Honor. This resulted in the attributes associated with the 10 Fool's. Number 19 in this WOB, says each is uniquely insane. NOTE: One of the biggliest issues with this theory is not knowing the 10 Fools attributes. Two Fools are named. Two have attributes. Cabine - He acts like a child although he is an adult. TWOK chapter 37, page 593, location 10668 Eshu - He speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do. WOR chapter 71, page 593, location 16877 One issue I have here is that the 2 Heralds I would link these two too are both female. Paliah and Battar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) We have a WOB on this. Not a confirmation, but along those lines. 2) Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. Leading Nale. Just. Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. Builder Talenel. Dependable. Resourceful Ishar. Pious. Guiding 3) Since Odium was attempting to break the Heralds focus on their Divine Attribute, the torture most likely took place in the spiritual realm. The spren would probably know something if it took place in the cognitive realm. One thing pointing to the cognitive realm though is the fact that Taln appeared covered in condensation much like a shardblade. 4) By breaking the Herald, Odium shifted their Primary attribute to closer align with his shard and align less with Honors. This usually resulted in an almost inversion of the attribute. SPECIFICALLY I THINK ONLY THE PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE WAS BROKEN/TWISTED. Below I will show what I think the attribute shifted to after the Devine attribute. Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. (Submission) Leading Nale. Just. (Arbitrary)(Judgement) Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. (Destructive) Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. (Weak-willed) Builder Talenel. Dependable. (Erratic) Resourceful Ishar. Pious. (Traitorous) Guiding These are based off of what we have seen or heard in the books so far. These are not perfect words, but the 17th shard manymind will probably come up with better. There are some subtle indications that only 9 of the 10 fool's have a strong history or mythology. Here is one concerning Lyft and pancakes. I think I subconsciously connected Lyft's silly quest to eat all 10 Pancakes with the 10 fool's. Research could not find a direct correlation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jezrien gives up on protecting humanity personally, submits to the Will of the group, and sacrifices Talenel to uphold the entire oathpact. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nale shifts from Just- working within the accepted standards of right and wrong to Arbitrary- following the rule of law without regards to morality.....he goes straight lawful evil. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 Judgement not Justice. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shalash is pretty clear with her running around destroying art, and significantly art that depicts her and other heralds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kalak is in no way resolute when Jezrien meets him. He is in fact very weak willed, confessing that he cannot go back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Talenel (if it really is him) comes back a broken man, highly erratic and unable to perform his duties as the Herald of War. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ishar formed the Knights Radiant originally, he led the Bondsmiths. He was also the one who promulgated the traitorous idea that 1 Herald could support the Oathpact. From Edgedancer: And And ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) We know there were not literally 99 desolation. I suspect there were 9. One each time Odium broke a Herald. Then the next time that Herald would not be tortured as hard so that about her would break first. Nine also being the number of Odium I believe would work well with this. After the Oathpact was discarded, Odium let humanity rewrite Roshar's history and religion in preparation for the Final Desolation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) The corruption of the 9 Heralds weakened Honor, but the Knights Radiant provided some support, until the Day of Requience when they abandoned all their oaths. Honor shattered shortly after. I have to go back and find some more quotes and WOB to fully support some of this, but I will edit them in as I find them.

So I just had a thought when looking into both Mistborn and Stormlight Archive. It appears that the raw power of shards is unable to enter buildings for some reason. I'm not sure if it's been discussed before but i'm sure people have noticed how in Mistborn the physical representation of Preservations power, in the form of the Mists, cannot enter buildings and evaporates at the entrance. A similar aspect to this can be seen in the Stormlight archive with, as far as we can tell, the physical representation of Honors power, Stormlight, cannot enter into things perceived as buildings. We see examples of Stormlight passing through Flesh to infuse gems in the form of Kaladins hand when he is left to die in a Highstorm and also in the fact that they are left in lanterns out in a Highstorm to become infused. It also seems weird how Stormlight can pass through the glass to get into a gem inside a Sphere anyways. But from these examples, does it seem to indicate that a shards power can't permeate buildings? And to be clear, i'm not saying that powers granted by a shards investiture cant be used in buildings, as there is much evidence that it can and is used inside a lot in both Mistborn and SA, but what sort of meaning does the possibility that a shards essence cannot permeate buildings?

Hey Sharders! Long time lurker, but first time poster! Hopefully im not regurgitating a theory posted elsewhere, and apologies if this theory expands a bit beyond the confines of roshar, it's about an entity on roshar but by necessity has to expand a bit further! Let me know if i should move this to cosmere theories! but i have some ideas about the origin of the Nightwatcher. It starts with our current understanding of the nature of spren capable of nahel bonds. From what I understand, these spren are small pieces of honor, and cultivation to varying degrees depending on the variety. And have been referred to as splinters of honor or cultivation. These splinters are bits of investiture left without will or a host long enough that it gains sentience. (There has been confirmation in a WoB that spren are splinters similar to the way seons are on sel) I've come accross a number of theories proposing that the nightwatcher is of cultivation, possibly a kind of cognitive shadow similar to the stormfather. This doesnt hold up in my opinion, there is a WoB that i dont know how to link which tells us that cultivations holder is still alive, and from what we know of the old magic, it doesnt seem to fit into the types of investiture made possible by honor and cultivation. (nor the possible iterations of voidbinding that we'll see more of soon) I propose that the nightwatcher is actually a splinter of adonalsium from pre-shattering. There were already other spren on Roshar before any of the shards came there. I think it's possible that this is a magic system that predates all other kinds on roshar, and was put into place before any shards were taken up. The concept of a boon and a curse doesnt feel at all like the symbiosis present in all of the magic from honor, cultivation, or even odium. Thoughts?

Scadrial shows us class warfare. Sel shows us religious warfare. I think Roshar shows us race warfare. I read the Stormfather’s statement as one of racial superiority and arrogance towards the listeners. The Stormfather believes only “beasts” bond with “subspren,” presumably pre-Shattering sentient spren. Oaths are not involved in such bonds. The Stormfather claims non-oath bonds don’t require “intelligence, free will, and choice.” While his statement also refers to greatshells, skyeels and other native lifeforms that bond spren, I believe listeners are his target, since the Stormfather lumps all “beasts and subspren” together. He sneers at non-sapient spren and the “beasts” they bond with. Maybe Honor imparted a sense of racial superiority to the Stormfather through his cognitive shadow. Maybe humans personified the Stormfather to embody this attitude. But I think Odium “corrupted” the Stormfather. This is a “hateful” attitude. I believe Odium somehow inserted his Investiture into the Stormfather to effect subtle changes in his makeup. There’s only scant evidence for this. Syl calls the Stormfather “broken,” although that can mean many things. We have examples of voidspren “corrupting” other spren. Brandon says, “many of these spren have that kind of ‘hole’ in them, and that’s what allows Odium to take control of them.” I agree with @zandi that the “Fleet” chapter (WoR, Chapter 59) foreshadows the SLA ending. This also provides some evidence of Odium’s corruption of the Stormfather. I think Kaladin’s race with the “storm” (never identified as a highstorm) is the true duel between Honor’s and Odium’s champion. (I think Dalinar’s belief he’s seen “Odium’s champion” may be wrong.) Kaladin races the storm into Shinovar, where it loses its Investiture (including Odium’s), and becomes "normal" again. I don’t know why Kaladin would have raced the storm to his death and resurrection (assuming this is the ending foreshadowed) unless the race ensured Roshar’s survival. My main point, though, is that the Stormfather expresses an attitude that leads to division and hatred. He expresses Odium’s attitude, not Honor’s. It is the attitude that leads to racial warfare and genocide, as we see on Roshar.

It says- vex odium convince him he can lose, he cannot afford to lose again. Unite them. Appoint a champion (to fight odium) how can a human fight a god. So unite them isn't the high princes or the kingdoms of roshar. It is the spren (who are splinters of honor). Unite them, put them back together. This champion will hold the shard honor. And Brandon hinted that odium took up the powers of another shard. And then he shattered honor. So this extra shard is giving odium a lot more power. After every desolation some of this power was lost. So if odium loses again he will have less power than cultivation.

It says- vex odium convince him he can lose, he cannot afford to lose again. Unite them. Appoint a champion (to fight odium) how can a human fight a god. So unite them isn't the high princes or the kingdoms of roshar. It is the spren (who are splinters of honor). Unite them, put them back together. This champion will hold the shard honor. And Brandon hinted that odium took up the powers of another shard. And then he shattered honor. So this extra shard is giving odium a lot more power. After every desolation some of this power was lost. So if odium loses again he will have less power than cultivation.

This theory comes from thinking about the likelihood that Adonalsium and his shards and attributes are based on or closely related to Earth religions. It is important to note that I am not suggesting that these books are allegorical. Their internal consistency and foundation have been made stronger by the study of world religions. These ideas were sparked by thinking about Odium as a manifestation of divine wrath: This is something that has been discussed already, but I think it is a huge clue to what is going on with the shards more generally. Although Odium is described as “divine hatred,” I think readers have correctly interpreted this to mean “wrath.” (I think it’s also possible that some of the other shards—perhaps especially those with weaker or very compatible vessels—have gone a little “batty” from being isolated from other divine virtues that would have kept them from going overboard with their Intent.) So, anyway, substituting Odium for the theologically familiar “wrath” is a smart move, as it allows for some speculation but is not blatant. Some shards, such as Endowment and Dominion are actual theological concepts, but they are less obvious to readers than Wrath would have been. This brings me to another possible substitution: “Honor” as a replacement for “Covenant.” There is a lot of debate over the relationship between goodness and honor, but what if Honor represents the covenants that a god makes with a people? (Covenant—or compact, if you like—also has legal and social meanings in addition to the theological one.) Thinking of Honor as representing covenants maintains the oath and bonds aspect of Honor, but it should allow us to talk about honor (and Honor) with less emphasis on goodness. On the other side of the coin, it also allows for more flexibility and room for interpretation with how covenants, oaths, and bonds are “honored” in-world. (Rightness vs. Justice vs. Letter of the Law, etc.) It is probably more useful to think of “honor” as a verb: to enforce or follow through on a covenant, oath, or to maintain a bond. Again, I am not arguing that the possible use of the concept of a covenant is allegorical. Tanavast never sent a rainbow after a particularly bad Highstorm. Gods make promises to and agreements with their followers. I won’t attempt to rewrite our understanding of the Cosmere or even of SA with this theory. I am more interested in how it could influence existing discussions and current and future theories. The one application I’ll suggest is also probably the most obvious. I suspect Adonalsium already had a covenant with the Listeners before his shattering: Post shattering, Honor, now separated from “the whole” appeared with the more Physically-inclined, spren-attracting humans and a willingness to betray or downgrade preexisting covenants. For a Listener, flirting with some other gods would not be unreasonable under those circumstances. Keeping in mind that Honor may have been a little intense with his Intent as a shard, are there other ways that covenants and agreements might have ended up a bit “off”? What is the Oathpact? Why do the Heralds blame Honor for their situation? Is a hypothetical Parshendi covenant still in existence somehow? Finally, I realize that this doesn’t touch on Cultivation’s role, though hopefully it will lead to speculation about how she fits into this picture. I’m very interested to hear thoughts on this idea! Also, I'm just realizing the bad timing of suggesting a theory just before we dig into the first chapters of Oathbringer. Oh well!

So, this is a very theoretical post. It's not mega-sourced (which I hope is ok), because it's more about how we look at larger, more abstract concepts related to language and literary themes. I don't believe there are any spoilers here. Here goes. As I’ve been thinking about SA’s language, I’ve realized that a lot of the terms it uses sound like they could be part of a standard fantasy series with stock villains who have generic goals. We often take them for granted. But we see in some of the archaic meanings of words in in-world songs and texts, the terms can be opaque or have a second, often older meaning. Sanderson has had some fun with misunderstood words in other series, too... This led me to try a linguistic analysis of SA’s in-world terminology and to contextualize it with some of the major thematic elements of the series. Major Themes: Loss, Corruption, Recovery of Knowledge The Integrity, Durability (or Fragility) of Bonds, Barriers, Seals, and Oaths Terminology: I, and perhaps others, have been thinking about “Desolation” in terms of a goal of essentially sending Rosharans “back to the stone age” and wiping out civilization. It’s a familiar goal in an ordinary fantasy series. Additionally, because of the theme of the loss and gain of knowledge, this makes even more sense to the reader in the early stages of the series. But “Desolation” can also mean forsaken or abandoned (the Latin root). The word “Void” also sounds like it would be a cliché end-goal of a “big bad” in a fantasy novel. More like emptiness, the void of space, etc. But “Void” also means the breaking of a contract or agreement, or even a hole or breach in a wall meant to shelter or protect. What I’m suspecting, is that these terms—and their compound and modified forms—are interconnected. Some of these connections are familiar, but I think that they are much more complex and work on more levels than we realize. I’ve thought of a few ways that these terms apply to the series, but I imagine there are many more. This is in no way comprehensive. It’s more about looking at the series through a lens that I suspect the author uses. Here are a few: Shards and their goals: Odium is the “Broken One.” He breaks bonds, vows, oaths, he renders them void. He shatters. What helps the Broken One break/void pacts and oaths? Voidbringers and the Unmade. Honor is the shard most associated with oaths, bonds, fulfilling/adhering etc. He creates walls to protect, walls made out of humans, spren, and oaths. Here, we see the root of their opposing interests. Stormlight, bonds, and cracks: We know that Honorblades let too much stormlight in, perhaps making the user more susceptible to malicious influences. Knights Radiant, too, have cracks, but the symbiosis of the Nahel bond protects in most cases. And Voidbringers (whoever/whatever they are) are perhaps the “Knights Radiant” of Odium, though without patterns, laws, and can include species that have an affiliation with gems, stone, or are actual stones. They are able to hold in stormlight because Odium’s influence has corrupted them, sealing the cracks to only his influence, and making them like stone. Misunderstanding the purposes of Stonewards and “Dustbringers”: I suspect that Stonewards, in particular, have become confused in popular understanding, at least in the past. They may be strong like stone, but more important, they guard and protect against things made of stone or like stone/rock. They “ward” against stone-like bonded Voidspren. “Releasers” or “Dustbringers” may turn animated stone enemies, perhaps even VoidListeners, to Dust, releasing—and hopefully destroying—the bonded Voidspren. Part of the reason they are feared, even though they are needed, is because they break bonds, not unlike the Broken One and his friends. An example of language and double meanings from the Listeners: Conclusion: Perhaps the conflict, at least for the first 5 books, is about Odium’s attempt to shatter bonds, pacts, and oaths, layers upon layers of these protective forces that put up a barrier between Roshar and Odium. Should Odium render these protective bonds void, perhaps weakening them with the help of a loss of knowledge about the larger conflict and the less abstract assistance of the Unmade and Voidbringers, he will break through and fully touch Roshar and destroy its shard and cognitive shadow shard. The True Desolation involves a final forsaking or abandoning of the vows and bonds that protect Roshar and the more literal, catastrophic abandoning of its inhabitants, by shards, heralds, and others sworn to protect Roshar from Odium’s influence. This may not all be new, but I think that really digging into words that Sanderson chose for very specific reasons could lead to some fun ideas...

For some months now, I’ve been working on creating a framework for all of the magic systems of Roshar that combines everything we know about them and makes predictions for that which we don’t know. This topic is the end result. Since I’m aiming for completeness, there will be things here that are already well understood, as well as things that I haven’t seen proposed before. So, with apologies for the sheer length that it has become, allow me to present my framework. Magics by Shardic Composition Let's start by listing the various Rosharan powers and classifying them by the Shards which power them. Magic Shardic Composition Surgebinding Honour & Cultivation Ancient Fabrials Honour & Cultivation Modern Fabrials Cultivation Old Magic Cultivation Voidbinding Honour & Odium Voidbringer Powers Cultivation & Odium Surgebinding My classification of Surgebinding shouldn't be raising any eyebrows since it is well understood that each type of Radiant spren is some mix of both Honour and Cultivation. However, let's take a moment to consider how the two powers manifest in Surgebinding as this will provide insight into how I've classified the other magics. While there are many different interpretations of honour, they ultimately all come down to the interaction between two or more people: in a universe with only one person, it would be impossible for them to act honourably (nor to act dishonourably), for there would be no one for them to act honourably towards. This duality is reflected, I believe, in Honour's magic. The most obvious example of this would be the necessity to bond spren in order to perform it. Now, you could argue that since the listeners were bonding spren long before the Shards came to Roshar, this would mean that bonding spren is not related to Honour specifically. However, the listener bond is, by its very nature, very different to the Nahel bond; seemingly less a mutually beneficial partnership, and more a natural process. I would contend, therefore, that this is an example of Honour incorporating this aspect of the Rosharan environment into his magic out of necessity. I do not think that this idea of duality is limited only to the bonding of spren, however; I think that it extends even to the way that the powers form. You likely noticed that in my listing of the various magics that there is no system that is entirely of Honour. I think that Honour's nature means that he requires a second Shard to mix his power with in order to form a magic system. In other words, it would not be in his nature to form a magic that is purely his own. Another example of Honour's effect on Surgebinding is in its structure: the way that Surgebinders are divided up precisely into distinct predetermined Radiant Orders based off of their interpretation of honour, and their determination to emulate that ideal. And also, the way that the powers are divided up between the different orders. This is a rigid and inflexible framework, much like the Radiant’s Ideals can be. In short, this is where the "binding" in Surgebinding comes from: Honour is bound to another Shard and the Radiants to their spren, their Orders, and their Ideals. So if Honour provides a structure to Surgebinding, what does Cultivation provide? I think that it is through Cultivation that Surgebinders get to manipulate the Surges. If we look at the spren associated with each of the Shards, Honour's spren are those of emotion, again linking back to human interaction. Cultivation's spren, however, are the spren of nature, so it makes sense that it is Cultivation's power that gives access to the natural Surges. Now, I can imagine it being argued that since on Scadrial, all the magic systems revolve around metals, surely all the magic systems of Roshar should likewise revolve around the Surges, not simply the ones associated with Cultivation. However, I would argue that this is a false analogy: the metals on Scadrial act as a focus, the Surges on Roshar do not. The powers produced by the Metallic Arts (with the exceptions of Allomantic iron, steel, aluminium, and chromium) are not related to metal themselves. Therefore, whilst all of the Rosharan magic systems should share a common focus, it should not necessarily be the case that they all share the Surges. Modern Fabrials Now with that established, it should be obvious why I think that Fabrials are a magic system purely of Cultivation. They lack the rigid structure that I have associated with Honour, and while the spren are still part of the magic, they are trapped inside the gemstones rather than working with the user as you would expect in Honour’s magic. This leaves Cultivation as the only reasonable candidate, which in turn means that they must be utilising the surges in some way. Although, without the rigidity of Honour’s framework, the way they manifest is apparently quite different. Ancient Fabrials The first thing to note here is that these fabrials do not seem to have much in common with modern fabrials, to the point that I suspect that calling them fabrials at all is a misnomer. Modern fabrials all function by trapping a spren in a gemstone, ancient fabrials do not appear to do this. Spren are clearly involved in some way, just as they are in every other magic; we in fact see this in the operation of the Oathgates. In order to activate them, you need a Shardblade, i.e. the physical manifestation of a spren that is part Cultivation and part Honour. Moreover, the spren needs to be alive. This implies that the person operating the Oathgate needs to be working together with the spren, which sounds just like an Honour based magic. This would mean that the ancient fabrials are far more closely related to the Surgebindings than they are to modern fabrials. Which makes sense given that the effects we have seen (Soulcasting, Regrowth, Transportation) appear to be the same as various Surgebindings. In fact, when Nale heals Szeth with one of these ancient fabrials, he actually refers to it as a Surgebinding. Ideally I would compare the operation of the Oathgates to that of other ancient fabrials, unfortunately though, we haven’t really seen enough of these yet to be able to draw anything meaningful from them. The Old Magic This isn’t a magic like others on this list: it's not something that people can perform; instead, it seems to be practised solely by the Nightwatcher, about whom the only things we can really say with confidence are that she is some kind of “mega-spren”, closely related to Cultivation. This would suggest then that the Old Magic can be described as similar to a sapient, self-operating fabrial. I don’t think that there’s much more that can be said at this point without additional information about the Old Magic or the Nightwatcher. Voidbinding This brings us to the only magic system on the list which I believe to be unrelated to Cultivation. If we look at the Voidbinding chart from the back of The Way of Kings, it is immediately obvious that the structure of the magic is the same as Surgebinding. It even has "binding" in its name, hence why I think that it is of Honour. However, if we look at the symbols where, on the Surgebinding chart, the Surges are placed, we see not the symbols for the Surges, but a twisted version of them. Hence I do not think that Voidbinding will be related to the Surges at all, and hence Cultivation has no part in Voidbinding. Voidbringer Powers And finally, we come to the powers that were demonstrated at the end of Words of Radiance by the Voidbringers. Why do I think that this isn't Voidbinding? We have a WoB that we haven't seen Voidbinding yet, but we have seen these powers, therefore they must be something different. Additionally we have the following WoBs: Since the Voidbringers are forms of the Parshendi, and the Parshendi are not of Honour, if my classification of Voidbinding as being of Honour is correct, then the Voidbringers cannot be Voidbinders. So, why do I think that the Voidbringers are related to Cultivation rather than purely of Odium? If we have a look at Dalinar’s vision of the Purelake, we see him looking for a voidspren, which ultimately ends up animating a thunderclast. The voidspren is described to him as: “A spren that doesn’t act like it should”, not as a new type of spren. And apparently this is a result of the spren interacting with Sja-anat, an Unmade. What’s more, the spren they end up chasing has a resemblance to a riverspren, a type of nature spren, which is therefore related to Cultivation. I would propose, therefore, that the Unmade corrupt spren to make voidspren. When the spren was originally of Cultivation they go on to form Voidbringers and thunderclasts and the like. And when the spren was originally of Honour, they will bond to form Voidbinders. On Initiation The first thing to note here is that not all magics require an Initiation in order to be used. Some, such as Haemalurgy, are universal and can be used by anyone. Modern fabrials also seem to fall under this category. In order to use a magic, you need three things: intent, Investiture, and a focus. In the case of fabrials, the Investiture and the focus are both incorporated into the device itself. In other words, the user only needs to provide the intent to use the fabrial in order for it to work. The crucial part here is that the user does not need to access an external source of Investiture themselves: the fabrial does that for them. The Old Magic is not relevant to this discussion since it is restricted to the domain of the Nightwatcher. Also, I don’t think we’ve seen enough of the ancient fabrials yet in order to determine whether they would also be universal or not, so, for the time being, I’ll pass over these two magics. The remaining magics all seem to require Initiation. Khriss’ comments on Initiation in Elantris’ Ars Arcanum suggest that the method of Initiation across all of the magics on any given world is consistent. I think it should be fairly obvious, therefore, that the method of Initiation here is the spren bond. All of the remaining magics utilise a spren bond in some form, and Syl has openly admitted to Kaladin that she is the reason that he is able to Surgebind. On the Rosharan Focus So far I’ve seen theories on the focus claim that it’s either the gemstones, or the spren, or the spren bond. Firstly, I don’t think that it can be the spren bond: I have already demonstrated that it is the method of Initiation and I don’t see how it can be both. Also, as previously noted, not all magics require a spren bond, but all magics require a focus which is consistent across all Rosharan magics, therefore if the spren bond were the focus, this would be a contradiction. Things get interesting when we start to examine the spren and the gemstones as candidates for the focus, however. When examining Soulcasting, the gemstones act exactly as you would expect the focus to, the type of gemstone used determines the result of the transformation. However, this does not appear to be the case with any other magic that we have seen, which should mean that the gemstones can’t be the focus. The spren seem like an ideal candidate for the focus since they are, like the gemstones, present in some capacity in all Rosharan magics. Moreover, as they are capable of changing their form at will, if they are the focus then they should be able to direct the form that the power takes by themselves. And, we saw in the climax to Words of Radiance, Syl was able to accurately determine the weapon that Kalaldin wished her to form without him having to actively communicate it to her, it would follow then, that the Radiant spren could do the same thing to provide their Radiant with the power that they wished to use. And since in modern fabrials, the spren would presumably be trapped in a single form, it would account for why fabrials each have only a single function. There is, however, a problem with using spren as the Rosharan focus, and it is essentially the same problem that we ran into when we tried considering the gemstones as the focus: when considering Soulcasting, it is clearly the gemstones, not the spren that is determining the result of the transformation. So both the spren and the gemstones must be the focus, but neither the spren nor the gemstones can be the focus! To resolve this, I think we’re going to need to take a closer look at what a focus actually is. To start off with, I don’t think that a focus is actually physical. Everything in the Cosmere exists to some extent across all three Realms, so that we might be able to see or interact with it in the Physical Realm does not mean that this is where the magical interaction is happening. If we look at AonDor, the focus like in all Selish magics is shapes, however, an Aon will continue to function even if you were to destroy its physical representation. Indeed Elantrians can draw Aons in the air, which shouldn’t have a physical body at all. And of course, on Nalthis, they use Commands as a focus which, being auditory, likewise shouldn’t have a physical body. I suspect that it is in the Cognitive Realm that these gain a more concrete, not to mention, permanent, form. So, Investiture flows from the Spiritual Realm to the Cognitive Realm where it interacts with the focus and is filtered down into the Physical Realm in the form determined by that focus. But, if the focus is cognitive, then shouldn’t it be possible for it to be something more abstract in nature, such as a function? We know that gemstones and spren have some kind of relationship with each other. Just consider Navani’s notebook: Could it be the case that spren and gemstones are bound together as variables in a cognitive function that is acting as the focus on Roshar? When spren are imprisoned in gemstones, is that what’s really happening, or are they instead being constrained to the same space as part of such a function? This is what I think is happening here: neither the spren nor the gemstone is the focus, but they are both components in a kind of complex focus. How the Honourblades Work So, I’ve been repeatedly coming back to the idea that the spren are involved in some way in every magic on Roshar, yet you might have noticed that the Honourblades are an exception to this. They allow their wielder to Surgebind, but they are not themselves spren. In fact, originally, the Honourblades would power Surgebinding by opening a direct conduit to Honour, similar to how Allomancy opens a conduit to Preservation, meaning that even gemstones wouldn’t be needed to provide Stormlight. Thus, the Heralds might not have needed either part of the focus that I specified above. Does this not contradict my argument for the focus? I don’t think so; I think that the way Honour hacked the magic in the Honourblades means that this isn’t an issue. When Preservation hacked Allomancy so that Vin was able to burn the mists, she no longer needed the metals for Allomancy. And similarly, when Vin became Preservation, she was able to power Allomancy for Elend without him having access to the metals. Based off of this, I think it’s clear that a focus is not required when a Shard directly intervenes like this. One final point: it could perhaps be argued that the Honourblades represent the true form of Surgebinding and that the Nahel bond is the true hack since the spren copied the Honourblades. I disagree with this interpretation, though. I think that the Radiant spren have always been able to form the Nahel bond and create Surgebinders since Honour first Invested in Roshar, they simply didn’t know that they could do this. When Honour hacked the system by creating the Honourblades though, the spren were able to figure out that they had this ability from seeing what the Honourblades could do. TL;DR Given the size and scope of this treatise, it is impossible to easily summarise the entire piece, however, a few key points are as follows: Honour’s influence causes a magic to take on a predefined, rigid structure. Voidbinding does not manipulate the Surges at all. Spren Bonds are the basis for Initiation. Roshar has a complex focus which utilises both spren and gemstones as components. The Honourblades negate the need for a focus.

Ok, before I get to my Outrageous Theory I'm going to talk about some things that got me there.. I'm going to point towards some WoB that I've read, sorry in advance as I find it difficult to cycle through all the WoB to find the exact quotes: WoB that suggested that there's more to the creation of Nightblood than a bucket load of breaths and a command WoB that suggests the five scholars were World Hoppers WoB that suggests Nightblood was modeled after a Shardblade Outrageous theory in the form of a humble question: I may be way ahead of myself here, so I'm going to ask some questions that may point us in the right direction or void said theory: In relation to the Cosmere timeline - where is SA compared to Warbreaker? keeping in mind that Nightblood was created at least 3 centuries ago (That was when Vasher ended the war he started wasn't it?) In relation to the Cosmere timeline - when was The Recreance? Is a Shardblade like Aluminum and immune to awakening.? if so, can enough breaths (investiture) overcome this? Is there possibly a Connection issue? (crossing over Shardic Magic) if so, can enough breaths (investiture) overcome this? Thoughts..? !~ HIF ~!

I just completed a reread of TWOK, my first after finishing all of the other works in the Cosmere, and had a thought about the Dawnshards... The only things we know for sure about the Dawnshards is that: They are not the same thing as regular shards on Roshar (shardblades), nor are they they same thing as the Honorblades which were held by the Heralds. -- WOB They played a huge role in protecting humanity on Roshar from the desolations in the past, and Honor is worried about the fact that they are now lost -- Dalinar's final vision in TWOK They can bind "any creature voidish or mortal" which apparently is a special property -- Poem of Ista Given all this info, it seems to me that most people thing the Dawnshards were some sort of ancient Spren that could bind to voidish and/or mortal beings that conferred unique powers that are now lost. Perhaps the people these Dawnshards bound were the Dawnsingers. It's a great theory, but I've got another, simpler one... What if the "Dawnshards" are actually just another way to describe Shards of Adonalsium? I started the Cosmere with the Stormlight Archives, so it has always confused me just how many different things are described as "Shards." What if, on Roshar, the BIG shards, the "complete" Shards of Adonalsium (ie Honor, Cultivation, Odium), are referred to as the Dawnshards in order to differentiate them from different, regular "shards" which are actually shards of shards (spren). Here's why I think this might fit: They are the shards that existed on Roshar at the "dawn" of creation, ergo they are the "Dawnshards" "Talk of them was obviously prevalent among those recording the early mythologies" They can bind any creature voidish or mortal. As far as we know, there aren't any limitations on picking up or holding a Shard of Adonalsium They existed some time ago and played a part in helping humanity fight off the desolations (Honor and Cultivation vs. Odium) But they are lost now (Honor and Cultivation are dead/splintered), and Honor is worried that humanity can't fight off the desolations (Odium) without them The magic system on Roshar seems somewhat different in present times (post-splintering?) than in Dalinar's visions of the past (pre-splintering?) If I'm right, then this gives the following quote form the Poem of Ista new meaning... Someone tried to hold on to a Shard of Adonalsium, probably Honor, presumably after its original bearer died. They must not have been able to hold onto it because we know now that Honor is splintered. Maybe this is why the person in the poem had to "crawl" up the steps. What do you guys think? Poke holes in this for me...

So I apologize if this was made clear already by previous posts but the more discussions I read, I end up with more questions as well as answers. So my question involves a WoB that says tuned oathpact was formed by honor and the heralds. I'm paraphrasing here. So if that's true then the honorblades that gave the heralds ten different orders and surges all came from Honor. I'm confused because don't edgedancers have cultivation Spren? How did Cultivation get involved?

After clarifying in another thread that Honor was (probably?) killed after the Recreance, I got to wondering exactly how long. Was that the final turning point so Odium could whittle Honor down and eventually killed him? Or maybe it was something else. I am working with the knowledge of how well discussed this has been so far without any definitive answer that I feel is satisfactory. Maybe the Radiants abandoned their Oaths because Honor told them to, or the spren knew Honor wanted them to and got the Knights to abandon them. The reason for Honor telling them to is that he was about to die. Honor wanted the spren and Knights to avoid some of the fallout of him being destroyed, so he saved them by detaching them from himself. With the Oaths abandoned, the spren were stuck partially in the physical realm, which may have protected them somewhat, at the cost of their sanity. The Knights would be less directly connected to Honor, and not be hurt as bad when he died. I'm just spouting out ideas here, but I think there may be some merit to the base premise of 'Honor died right after the Recreance.' It would certainly make understanding why the Recreance happened a lot easier and more complicated at the same time. I am making the assumption here that there would be some ripple effect in the cognitive realm when a Shard is killed, which I don't think is unreasonable. There were probably some physical disasters too. Earthquakes, and the like. I don't know how Honor being killed would affect Radiants, but there would have to be some repercussions, so maybe they abandoned their Oaths to avoid those. It makes me wonder what happened to the order that didn't abandon their Oaths... maybe their honor was corrupted entirely? Again, just spouting ideas. Do you guys have any other ideas about potential reasoning for the Recreance in context of the premise that Honor was killed (relatively) directly after?

So this is kind of random, but I thought the more Cosmere and WoB savvy among you might be able to help me. Do we have any WoB on the possibility that Cultivation betrayed Honor? Betrayal is too harsh a word for what I mean, but I can't come up with a better one. Let me put it this way: Is there a possibility that Honor went.. off track, sort of, at least when seen in the light of Cultivation's intent? And is there a possibility that Cultivation was implicit in his death?

Hi all, I'm a pretty infrequent poster here, though occasionally I stop by and read what people share. I was thinking about the oaths of the windrunners, and something came to me, and I wanted to speculate about it here because I felt it had some merit. I think the last oath of the windrunners could be something like, "I will die for those I protect, if I must." My train of thought was of course this is the ultimate sacrifice and way to protect someone. And then it hit me. Honor was dead. What better way to exemplify what Honor did by following his example, and dying? I've always thought that poor Honor was killed by Odium. What if, instead, he sacrificed himself in order to protect Roshar from destruction? It not only makes Honor seem way cooler, but it just really fit. For me at least. And now that I'm speculating, what if the highstorms somehow protect the world (like cleaning it from voidspren or making such spren unable to carry out the will of their master)? Highstorms are almost always described as leaving the world clean, and I feel like they are also tied to Honor.

We know almost nothing about the Dawnshards, so obviously this theory isn't built on any concrete evidence. But here's my thought process... In Dalinar's vision, Honor himself used the word "Dawnshard," so it's clearly an official, accurate term. He also used the word "shards" for the shardblades of the Radiants. So there would seem to be a connection. Suppose Dawnshards are "shards" in the same sense as the blades. Spren. Powerful, ancient spren, sent by the Almighty to aid mankind. Which is exactly how Vorins describe the Dawnsingers. But that belief could be a product of its time. In the Age of Solitude (when SLA takes place), most people don't understand that shards are spren. So I'd theorize that the Dawnshards and the Dawnsingers are the same thing. (Or, potentially, that the Dawnsingers were humans, bonded with the Dawnshard-spren.) Now here's the weird part. So Honor says we are "without the Dawshards." But if we don't have the Dawnshards, what happened to them? They can't have been destroyed; they're splinters, pure investiture, which cannot be created or destroyed. They might have been killed, like the common blade-spren, but that wouldn't make them gone. They'd still be around, at least partially usable, and potentially even revivable. I guess they could be 'splintered' beyond repair, the same way Shards (of Adonalsium) are splintered. But as far as I know, that doesn't happen to spren. It could, in theory, but let's assume it hasn't. What if Honor lost the Dawnshards because Odium took them? Took them, tortured them, infected them with his own malignant investiture, and twisted them into monstrous agents of hatred and destruction. Ergo... the Unmade. This might explain the name "Unmade." Honor made them as beautiful, benevolent Dawnshards, and Odium un-made them, ruining Honor's work. It also makes sense when you consider the names of the known unmade. Nergaoul and Moelach are clearly named for the Mesopotamian gods Nergal and Moloch. These 'gods' are identified as demons in Judeo-Christian mythology, and demons, generally, are fallen angels. And what are the Dawnsingers, if not angels? Thoughts?

I just finished a reread of The Way of Kings. Something in the last vision Dalinar receives stood out to me. He is obsessed through the whole book about uniting the High Princes, because of a vision he had. He has that same vision again at the end of the book but it is extended. In the extended version we learn that Honor is the one who sent them and that Odium has killed him. He is again told to "Unite Them". But who must he Unite? Note: I removed Dalinar's thoughts and dialogue for clarity. It is right after Honor points out the star systems being destroyed by Odium, while still looking at those star systems, that he tells Dalinar "Someone must unite them". Honor is not just saying Unite the High Princes, or the Knights Radiant, or even all of Roshar. Honor is thinking on a much, MUCH bigger scale. Unite the Cosmere!

Some things we know: Honor was shattered a long time ago. Honor was shattered by Odium Odium is not in support of anybody being happy The Heralds in the prelude really do not want to go back to the place they go between desolations There is a quote in the prelude that mentions hooks and fire in damnation Honor likes the Heralds Some things I am extrapolating: There have probably been desolations before the shattering of Honor There have probably been desolations after the shattering of Honor Fire could be a natural phenomenon, but for there to be hooks in damnation makes it seem like an intentional torture planet Odium probably is happy about the Heralds suffering My theory There was probably some form of Damnation before Honor was shattered, but it wasn't that bad. Then, after Odium shattered Honor, Honor was no longer there to protect the Heralds, and Odium was free to make Damnation as terrible as it could possibly be. He can do whatever he wants to it because he owns Braize. Ideas?

Do other types of investiture suffer/benefit (depending on how you want to view it) from overuse of their powers similar to misting savants?

So we know that Kaladin (Windrunner) is bonded to an honorspren and Lift (Edgedancer) is bonded to a cultivationspren, and that all the Nahel-bonding spren exist on a spectrum / continuum from Honor to Cultivation. Other than the Windrunners and Edgedancers, and the Nightwatcher/Stormfather who are 2 of the 3 Bondsmith spren, do we know from the text or WOB which Orders are "more Cultivation" and which are "more Honor"? (I have a theory about the Shard - Surge - Order associations being shown on the Double Eye chart, but don't want to post a theory that's disproved by stuff we already know.)