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      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
      Part 2 Reactions
      Part 3 Reactions
      Part 4 Reactions
      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.


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  1. @Cosmé: The Old Magic could also be a remnant of the magic on Roshar pre-Shattering, now co-opted by Cultivation. It has to be "old" compared to Surgebinding to deserve the name. Since the Radiants came to existence somewhen during the desolations (around Nohadon's time), there are centuries or even millenia in which there were only Heralds and no Nahel bond surgebinders, so the only approachable magic could have been the Old Magic. Then it's entirely possible that you are right and it is Cultivation's magic and not a remnant of Adonalsium. Renarin I don't think uses Voidbinding since he still uses Stormlight. Glys as Truthwatcherspren has been "corrupted" by Sja-Anat, so the surges of the Truthwatchers are modified. We don't see Renarin Lightweaving, instead he sees versions of the future. This is definitely a Voidbinding surge. His Progression surge seems to work properly as we see when he heals Adolin - also using Stormlight. Renarin's bindings are of hybrid nature, like Glys now is. Glys might grant access to voidbindings powered by Stormlight instead of Voidlight. I don't really know how we should call this. It is neither pure Voidbinding nor pure Surgebinding. I'd also count Renarin one of the Radiants. Things are changing on Roshar and old categories, especially Vorin propaganda, will probably lose their meaning in future books. We already have female Shardbearers (Jasnah, Shallan, Azure), distinctions between light- and darkeyes vanish as darkeyes become Radiant, etc. It is a small step to assume that the new Orders of Radiants will be significantly different from the old Orders. This could and should include accepting Radiants with corrupted spren into the Orders, especially if Sja-Anat's claim intending to change sides is true.
  2. The floating platforms used counter weights, so they were more a giant version of spanreeds (to be exact the opposite of spanreeds, using amethysts instead of rubies, called Reverser while a spanreed is a Conjoiner). They did not use the gravitation surge, yet.
  3. About the factors compounding to the Recreance I can only recommend the recent Shardcast, they cover those very well. About Surgebinding on Ashyn: We have to remember that Ashyn is in the Rosharan system, so a similar magic system as on Roshar is to be expected, especially since the system has existed pre-Shattering. The only localized magic we know is on Sel, this basically coming from the Investiture of D&D being stuffed into the Cognitive Realm instead of the Spiritual Realm. This is not the case in the Rosharan system, so Surgebinding should not be limited to the planet of Roshar. If you also take into account the fact that Rosharan nomenclature is not very differentiating (e.g most birds are called "chicken"), it would be not surprising that any non-fabrial magic in the system is called "Surgebinding", even if it was slightly different. A possibility is that humans accidentally "destroyed" Ashyn with Voidbinding - they were the first Voidbringers, after all. What irks me is that Honor and Cultivation told the Singers to take in the refugees from Ashyn. They probably would not have done that if Odium came immediately with them. There are great uncertainties concerning the first advent of humans on Roshar, since we've got only bits here an there hidden in Death Rattles, The Songs of Listeners and the translation of the Eila Stele. The fear of destroying the planet with Surgebinding again must have been an issue for the KR before the Recreance, since Honor started raving about it before he died. When Ba-Ado-Mishram was captured and all Singers connected to her lobotomized in the process, the unforeseen consequences must have been a shock for the Knights Radiant and an example of what the surges could do to the planet. Additionally, we still don't know what shattered the Shattered Plains. This could also have been another "accident" with greater effects than intended. The revelation that humans were not native to Roshar, I also found underwhelming as the Secret that destroyed the KR. Combined with the danger of destroying a planet again with examples of unexpected effects of Surgebinding, the scenario leading to the Recreance is quite convincing for me. The fact that humans on Ashyn might have had a different form of Surgebinding is secondary, because the lobotomizing and the shattering of the Shattered Plains have been done by the Surgebinding the KR on Roshar currently use.
  4. With the new State of the Sanderson (19.12.2017), I would guess the Aether Mraize sullied himself with is from Aether of Night. And we know that at least on Roshar there are cleaning specialists to remove the odd remnant of an Aether from your clothes. Note: Magic system is canon. "Only" plays it a bit down. I will read Aether again - probably during the holidays - in respect to the magic system and its connections to the cosmere. Then we can play the Shard-guessing game again...
  5. New info from The State of The Sanderson 2017: The magic system from Aether of Night is cosmere canon, not the story.
  6. Ba-Ado-Mishram: Adoda means "light". Mishim is the smallest (green) moon. -ram we find in Amaram as suffix. Might there be a possibility to translate the names of the Unmade?
  7. I feel Moash kind of has already had his possibly-leading-to-redemption arc in WoK and WoR. His motivations are revenge and hate. If he had stepped back from that path in Oathbringer, he could have found peace still. Now, he succumbed to Odium and Moash's actions while killing Elhokar, especially kicking the toddler Gavinor and afterwards saluting Kaladin with the Bridge Four salute are just despicable. His anger towards Elhokar for imprisoning his grandparents (which led to them dying in prison) is justified, the actions he took from there are neither adequate nor justifyable. Moash has been hateful and bitter from the beginning in WoK, got a bit better and perhaps likeable in the books between WoK and WoR and then became worse again. Moash made his choice and surrendered his passion to Odium, after killing Elhokar he feels empty and when he is set out to kill Jezrien, he becomes just a tool. Of course there is still room for a reversal (as we know Brandon is fond of), but I for one wouldn't buy it. A reversal on this would be highly unsatisfying for me. Moash's background and motivations are too well fleshed out to make a turn like "Oh, in reality he is one of the good guys in disguise". For me, Moash is on a level of dislike as Torol Sadeas and the same end for Moash would be satisfying for me. Instead I see him becoming Odium's champion, now that Dalinar turned the job offer down. Surgebinding in present day is using Stormlight. It is absolutely possible that Surgebinding has not been distinguished from Voidbinding in the past. The humans who came to Roshar destroyed their own planet by "Surgebinding". This in fact was only a magic system similar to Surgebinding on Roshar, not the exact same thing. Here the WoB on this: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256-oathbringer-london-signing/#e8690 As humans came with Odium to Roshar, what destroyed their home could have been Voidbinding or something else entirely. This WoB https://wob.coppermind.net/events/174-oathbringer-portland-signing/#e8243 seems to imply that humans really did come from Ashyn (with its floating cities), which is in the Rosharan system. So Odium would have been in the system before he came to Roshar (planet). In conclusion it is perfectly possible that Surgebinding and Voidbinding were used synonymous or have to be transposed in records from the past, like the first Voidbringers were humans.
  8. Would Patji be called a Shard of Adonalsium if it were a splinter of Autonomy? Leaving autonomous splinters behind definitely would be a thing of Autonomy. Additionally to Bavadin's worlds, the Evil on Threnody might also be a left-behind splinter of a Shard. In the AU, Khriss refers to the perpendicularity on First of the Sun as unusual, since a perpendicularity is the hallmark of a Shard on a planet. Khriss says there is certainly no Shard residing in the system. But: there is a Shard whose Intent is Survival, it is hiding (from Odium, Autonomy, whoever). I'd say Khriss is just not able to find the Shard on First of the Sun, because Patji is the Survival Shard gone into hiding. The perpendicularity on First of the Sun is not unusual, but the behaviour of its corresponding Shard. Edit: After reading the whole sequence of WoB, especially the point where he mentions the letter, I changed my mind on Patji being the Shard whose Intent is Survival. Autonomy is my hottest candidate now. Their Intent also fits well with the theme in Sixth of the Dusk, since Dusk and all trappers are highly autonomous. Also, the archipelago of Patji being called the Pantheon aligns with the WoB where he states that Bavadin has created a whole patheon of theirself. The perpendicularity could have been created when Autonomy visited First of the Sun and be hold up by their Connection to Patji. Since also the perpendicularities of splintered Shards don't simply disappear (Elantris, Honor's perpendicularity pre-Dalinar), they seem to be quite stable even in the absence of a living Shard one they were created. And/or Patji could contain just enough Investiture to uphold the perpendicularity.
  9. About the Oathgate spren: Even if they are "lesser" spren (which I am not so certain of, I suspect the black spren being a big version of an inkspren and the white spren a big version of a willshaper spren, since both give the surge of transportation) their amount of Investiture should be way above Glys. I don't see a contradiction in the fact that Glys was "corrupted" before the Oathgatespren. Now to the point why I post (I had to read the thread to look if someone else posted something like this meanwhile): Last night I had that strange dream about Renarin sticking with Bridge 4. He won't be a proper Truthwatcher, so Bridge 4 is the right place for "misfits" like him. Nearly everyone in Bridge 4 ended up with a honorspren or being a squire (all but Rlain until now). In that dream, Renarin also bonded an honorspren, additionally to Glys. @Ookla the Feathered, as our Renarin expert, what do you think about this? (I am also happy if you call it just a mad dream )
  10. When Azure used the color metaphor "white on black" I thought: "gotcha!". Zahel/Vasher used that same metaphor earlier in the book, so it stood out like a sore tooth. The name should have been a hint (in the prereleased chapters I called nearly every new appearing female Vivenna suspect...), but I was otherwise occupied reading the Kholinar infiltration. That Azure is Vivenna and not some random Nalthian woman became clear when she did the kata together with Kaladin and Adolin. All three have learned it from Vasher. Then her hair color changes in Shadesmar, I assume because her control over it slipped because of fear. So Nalthian + royal locks + Vasher kata confirms Vivenna for me. Oh and her sword. Thats a Nightblood 2.0 or Dayblood. Whatever it's name is...
  11. There has been a short scene between Navani and Rushu talking about the ships/airships. I will have to browse through the book to find it, though (best not done during breakfast for obvious reasons). The sails pointing downward is as @Argent already mentioned, a clear sign for the ships to ride just above Highstorms, with the wind under the ship providing forward thrust. The raising / lowering will have to be done by fabrials. Stormlight would be repleted with the Highstorm below, so the fabrial would not run out of Stormlight as long as the ship was above the Highstorm. Just a slightly evil thought: What would a fabrial with a captured windspren or honorspren be able to do? Could it grant fabrial-lashings? This would make the sails superfluous, though, since the airship could be lashed in any desired direction. Navigation independently from Highstorms could now be achieved by an airship carrying Dalinar, if he continues to be able to recharge spheres at will. The painrial is used as a taser/shocking device by Navani in Thaylen City against the three men who had captured Fen, her mate and Navani.
  12. I am not sure whether Kaladin will swear the fourth oath at all now. We don't know what the oath would be and it might go against his principles. Compare to Chapter 86 epigraph: The old Knight Radiant seems to have been in a similar spot as Kaladin where he wasn't able to swear the Fourth Ideal. In Oathbringer it also got clear that the interpretation of the oaths depends strongly on perception of what is right and wrong and on keeping oaths. With Kaladin's surgeon apprentice background I see many conflicts if the Fourth Ideal goes against helping people, as somewhat implied in the epigraph. If the Fourth Ideal were "just" about accepting failures and getting up again, it would not be so difficult. Knowing the words and not saying then, Kaladin is assaulted by memories of loved ones he has lost. I suspect something of focussing on the living/the "greater good" and forgetting the dead / the individuals being in the Fouth Ideal and therefore very difficult for someone who wants to /has sworn to help anyone needing help (->surgeon). Although Kaladin has progressed from surgeon apprentice to Knight Radiant, his very core is helping people. If the Fourth Ideal is against that, Kaladin should well deny it. As we have seen now, not all about the Knights Radiant is good. Even strict adherence to oaths is not always good, it is just of Honor. For Kaladin's character development it could well be the best to say. "No, I cannot and I don't want to swear this Ideal. If you want me to progress, find another Ideal."
  13. I still think this is too superficial. Bondsmiths also use Adhesion and with Dalinar we see it as working with Connection (using foreign languages via Connecting to people, summoning Honor's perpendicularity via Connecting the Realms). The physical aspect of the surge might well be working with pressure und vacuum, but there is more to it. Since the surges work differently for each order, the old list of surges will have to be updated as new features appear in future books, when we see more of known Surges from Orders that have not been an item so far. Kaladin's leadership abilities also could be buffed by Connection with the group of people he leads. We see him connect very quickly with the running parshmen and also the Wall Guards in Kholinar. The last one Kaladin felt was "cheap" compared to the hard work he had to do making Bridge Four follow him. Of course, he could just be more practiced now in making people follow him.
  14. Played a bit with the art and inserted translations in images now (with standard orthography).
  15. Mark how sapphire fits with the order of windrunners.