Rider of Storms

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About Rider of Storms

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    That Which Brings Light to the Darkness
  • Birthday 12/02/1998

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  1. To clarify, I meant that they were originally a Rosharan organization, but eventually became inter-planetary as worldhopping became more prevalent. Which is why we haven't seen them as obviously anywhere else, but may have seen their members or influence. Roshar may be their base of operations, or at least their area of priority.
  2. Whether or not the group as a whole is a worldhopping organization is unknown. I find it somewhat likely that they are an interplanetary organization whose roots are in roshar.
  3. That's a tearible argument!
  4. Or is it a .... non-tissue? I'll show myself out...
  5. Iron is the allomantic symbol for 1. Whatever the allomantic symbol for 2 is will probably grace the cover of WoA. Whether or not the same pattern will continue with Era 2...we'll have to see.
  6. Congratulations!! I'll definitely check that out one of these days, and add it to my ever-growing To Read List.
  7. theory

    I mean, I was alluding to that, but who knows how "fantastic" those Shards would be... You're right though hah.
  8. theory

    Part 2: And Where to Find Them: This is where I hope the bulk of this thread's conversation will be based. As interesting as theorizing the Intents of future Shards is (and of course you are welcome to do so here), what we do with this information is what makes this thread different from the old one. Suppose everything I said above is correct (I know, it's quite likely), what would that mean for the cosmere? Which Shards would work together, and which shards would be enemies? Are there others that have been Splintered? What would those Splinters look like? I am going to break it down by Shard and what I think would be cool, and allow all of you to do the same. Disclaimer #1: This entire part is pure speculation, based only on educated guesses on the Intents of hypothesized Shards. Therefore don't take these as proper theories (with the exception of the Shard's Purity and Enlightenment, as there is at least some meat there). Frustration vent #1: Urg I had a few Shard's worth of ideas that get mysteriously deleted when I continued typing. Perhaps the post got too long to handle? Chaos: Now this would be a fun Shard. Agents of Chaos don't necessarily want destruction or creation of anything, they just want things to change. They might be Initiated by causing discord, and they'd have a problem with Harmony and Dominion. The magic could be an end-negative one like Hemalurgy which would be highly versatile to achieve many different goals. The Shard could be one interested in non-intervention, in a "letting the chips fall where they may" type way, though I feel like it's more likely that they have a hand in sowing chaos. It would make a good team with Autonomy. Charisma: Let's talk about the Initiation of this Shard's magic. Initiation is usually tied to the Intent of the Shard and the individual lining up with it in some way. This Shard's magic would probably Invest people who draw followers based on who they are, rather than force. It may be similar to Alethi society, but ironically more honorable. I think it would make an interesting pair with Retribution. If they had Invested in the same planet there could be some interesting conflicts, though it does seem similar to the conflict between Odium and Honor. Retribution: As I said, Retribution would have an interesting relationship with Charisma, despite them being in different quadrants. I would be very interested in seeing inter-planetary agents of Retribution act as a police force for magical crimes Somewhat like the Reckoners or an Apocalypse Guard of the cosmere, bringing justice to those who commit high crimes with magic. Though if this is true, I'm sure the Lord Ruler would have been high on their hit list, so perhaps its an idea for a later date in the cosmere's story. Retribution would have beef with Ruin, Odium, and perhaps Chaos, and would get along with Honor. Enlightenment: If there is a Shard at Silverlight, this is it. I admit I was hesitant to accept that idea for a long time, but I've come to realize it makes sense. This Shard recognizes for whatever reason that the best course of action in avoiding death by Odium is to hide and not Invest in a planet. However, if that's what happened, an Enlightened Shard which delights in the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom would never be able to sit idly by and not do anything. So eventually that desire sprouted into Silverlight, where there are magic universities and expeditions to explore the cosmere, all safe (hopefully) from Odium's hateful eye. Enigma: It would be interesting if Enigma is the force behind the "shrouding" of Yolen that Khriss alludes to in Secret History. For whatever reason, the planet is inaccessible (if you trust one random line from a character in-universe), and it may be because of this Shard's efforts to hide things. Being needlessly obtuse sounds like a Shard that would tempt Hoid, maybe he knows this one well. Purity: I don't know how much I believe in the Purity/planet thing, though I do agree it's suspicious. If Purity exists, perhaps it's on that planet or used to be. Do we have a WoB which would disprove this? Given the danger of fainlife in the cosmere, and the possibility that the Evil on Threnody is related to it in some way (evidence being the red starlight on the map, and the similar way it's described as an encompassing thing that cannot be fought), Purity may be attempting to counteract it. Please comment with your ideas, while I try to edit this into the OP as well! Happy theorizing!
  9. About half a year ago, I posted up a thread in Cosmere Theories called Narrowing Down the Last Shards (below) in which we as a forum posited many excellent ideas. It's long but worth the read as much of what I say in this post I derived from there. I have since changed my opinion with some ideas I'm sure you all will appreciate and tear up as you please. Having said that, in this thread I will go a step further. Not only will we try to discern the remaining six Shards, but we will ask what we can do with that information, and theorize what kind of magic, worlds, and people those Shards may have created. Thus, I present to you The Rest of the Shards and Where to Find Them. So as before, here are some things we think we know, and some suppositions, before I get to the List: Shards are all godly attributes, possibly based on the Judeo/Christian god, Adonai (for which Adonalsium was named). Shards do not have perfect pairs or opposites Shards may also be considered to have many opposites There is a Shard (besides Ambition) that has not Invested in a planet. Aforementioned Shard wants to hide and survive because it is a wise decision. Survival is not the capitalized intent, and is only tangentially related to the capitalized Intent. Shards' Intents, by the definition of the word, are active. They have a goal. Odium is the most dangerous of the Shards. Ambition was #1 on Odium's hit list, which means that there are no other Shards which he would find more dangerous than Ambition. Hoid and Frost know what they're talking about. I know I missed a few things that I wanted to say. Feel free (as before) to correct me, or add to the things we know. Most of that is from WoB, and some supposition, and was derived from previous responses. Part 1: The Rest of the Shards: Disclaimer #1: Not all of the ideas for Shard names were mine, and I am not claiming that they are original. I appreciate all the thought you wonderful people have put into this, and thank you for broadening my mind on this subject. I will ping some of the contributors of the original thread in the references in Part 3. Disclaimer #2: As I mentioned above, Adonalsium is likely based off of the Judeo/Christian God. I am a believer, and some of the Intents are based on my views of God. They may not match your own, and that's okay. Please do not take my posited Intents or arguments thereof as me trying to convert you. The Intents are speculation based on my beliefs, Brandon's beliefs, and are just as valid in this discussion as your own. I hope that we can discuss this subjectively. Disclaimer #3: This will be a lengthy post, and I don't think I will hide anything in spoilers to shorten it. If it looks too long too read, fret not. I won't be insulted if you just want to skim through the list at first, and simply read the parts that interest you. If you do wish to respond to something, however, please take the time to read my opinion on it, otherwise, I may just quote stuff I already said back at you. I don't mean to be insulting if I do so, so don't take it as snark. Disclaimer #4: I recognize the possibility that Brandon may not have finalized all of the Shards Intents as of yet, which would render all of this rather useless. But of course, this is the Shard where we can discuss any theories no matter how baseless they are! Brandon, if you're reading this and I'm right about everything, I promise I didn't break into your personal wiki, and if I correctly guess future magic systems or worlds, I promise not to say that they're my ideas. I'll just be glad that I called it. As before, Shards we know are in Green, and Shards we don't know are in Red. This does not mean that they are in the correct groupings, however. This is all speculation. The four quadrants that I believe make up the being Adonalsium are as follows: Creation, Personality/Authority, Action, and Divinity. I believe we can put all sixteen Shards into groups of four, as opposed to pairs as I originally thought. Group 1: Creation Many have spoken (in-universe and out) that Preservation and Ruin are the forces of creation. This is not wrong, but I don't think that's the be-all and end-all of the Creation force that is Adonalsium. Some of these Intents refer not only to the physical creation of nature, but actions and mindsets about people. (Cultivation or Sanctification of followers for example) Cultivation: Growth, Creation, Sanctification Cultivation embodies positive change with the intent of creating something better. It can destroy things if necessary in order to make something better out of it, or in its place. Preservation: Guarding, Stasis, Immutability Preservation cannot create anything new on its own; it can only act to preserve what is already in place. Preservation also points to the god attribute of immutability, the unchanging nature of God. Ruin: Destruction, Decay, Entropy Ruin's end goal is to break everything down to its most basic parts. Historically, Ruin was able to help create things, only if it let him destroy more things afterward. Brandon has remarked that this would make Ruin compatible with Cultivation, which supports this theory. Chaos: Neutrality, Quiescence, Abeyance, "Letting the chips fall where they may" As I mentioned in the "Things we think we know" section, Shards need to have an active goal in order to fulfill the logical requirements of the word "Intent". For this reason, I am not totally sold on any of the above-selected words, but more the overarching goal of them collectively. The obvious hole in the quadrant is the art of negative neutrality, in the same way as Preservation is a positive neutrality. However, as Intent denotes activity, it cannot truly be neutral. Thus, I settled on the word "Chaos". Group 2: Personality/Authority Adonalsium was seen as God in the cosmere (source: Hoid & Frost). We need the personality of God (based on the Judeo/Christian God as above) as well as his right to rule if we want to fulfill all of the necessary components that make up who they are. Dominion: Controlling, Ruling, Conquering This is the type of power Adonalsium would have by divine right, similar to a king or a god. Charisma: Leadership, Magnetism This is the type of power that would make Adonalsium worthy of being served. What good is the authority of a god if they are not worthy? It is a hole that needs filling, and it contrasts the other names in this quadrant. I know many people aren't sold on the name; neither am I. But it is the best word I've found to communicate the broadness of the overarching Intent of the hole in this quadrant. Devotion: Servitude, Care, Love, Mercy I feel the need to point out that Devotion is a fairly broad definition, which includes many other Intents many people have posited for names of Shards (including Love). Brandon himself called it Love before he changed it to Devotion. This is the reason why I do not have "Love" in any of the quadrants, as it is included in Devotion. I used to have this Shard paired with Odium as I had asked Brandon if they were opposites. His reply was that they "could be considered as such", however, Odium does not fit with this quadrant, so I abandoned that line of thought. I may have just left too much wiggle room in what we consider as opposites, as people have pointed out before. Autonomy: Independence, Freedom This Shard point's to the godly attribute of independence, god's self-sufficiency in that they do not require anything. Autonomy is a weird Shard with a highly...debatable Intent, which has led to some confusion in the past on how we can define a Shard's Intent. The consensus is that the Vessel is able to act on their interpretation of the Intent, and that the Intent may change slightly as a result, depending on the Vessel. This may be what Brandon meant when he said that Adonalsium could have been split in different ways. Group 3: Action Going again back to the nature of Shardic Intent, Adonalsium is a god of action. He was a creation-force that had a goal in mind, and this should be true for the Shards as well. The four below Intents cover most, if not all, of the main actions the Judeo/Christian god. Endowment: Giving, Mercy With love and care, god would be one who gives to his followers in order that they use their gifts for his glory (see: Spiritual gifts). Separated from the context of other Shards and their respective Intents, Endowment becomes what we see in Warbreaker. In conjunction with the other Shards in this grouping and the others, I believe that Endowment includes mercy and forgiveness, though there is an argument that they may be a Shard on their own. Retribution: Punishment, Justice, Vengeance A favourite of many on this thread, and one I used to oppose, I have come to see that this Shard would contrast Endowment (including mercy), and Honor, rather than being part of Honor (though that argument is still intact), Retribution is an action the Judeo/Christian god does quite a lot of, separated by his promises (Honor). Ambition: Taking, Improving, Acting If there is a Shard that is tenuously...off...in this grouping, Ambition would be the one (In which case I would replace it with Mercy). The only reason I say that is because Ambition (though involving action) is more of a mindset, like Odium (which would put it in the "Divinity" section below). However, it does make a good contrast with Endowment as well, and somewhat fills in the hole of a god demanding something from his followers. This works if we say Ambition involves sanctification of followers more than an improvement on God's behalf (which wouldn't be a godly attribute). Honor: Promising, Covenant We see both Honor and the Judeo/Christian god bind themselves to their promises, as well as expect it of their subjects. Group 4: Divinity The final grouping is the overarching theme of what makes god or Adonalsium divine (see: Hoid & Frost). It is, in fact, the most undisputed necessity of godhood. I will explain my choices below. Bear in mind that this is the one with the most unknowns, as there are still three Shards unaccounted for in my pattern. Therefore, this includes my suppositions on there needing to be a Shard of Wisdom/Enlightenment, and a Shard including Mystery, which are both heavily needed in a god figure like the Judeo/Christian god. Enlightenment: Wisdom, Knowledge, Omnipotence, Ingenuity Though all Shards have some measure of Omnipotence, we would be amiss to not include a Shard of Wisdom. It is my belief that this Shard is the Survival Shard that wants to hide, not Investing in a planet for fear of Odium, acknowledging that it is the wisest action for self-preservation. I included the possibility above of Ingenuity, as Brandon may have slipped and confirmed it accidentally, though that is a measure of semantics and debatable. Odium: "Divine Hatred", Wrath, Envy And we come to the villain of the Cosmere... I put Odium in this grouping because of Hoid's words: "He bears God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues which gave it context". Notice his use of the word "divine". In this grouping, if he was still part of Adonalsium, Divine Hatred is undoubtedly a big part of God's divinity and holiness. Enigma: Mystery, Paradox As I mentioned above, Mystery is a big part of what separates God from mortals. I chose Enigma because it sounds cooler it's more encompassing than Mystery. It definitely plays a role in Divinity and makes a good pairing with Enlightenment. I say "Paradox" because I know people will bring it up based on the obscure "Alcatraz Shard WoB" and it somewhat fits. Purity: Holiness, Chastity Admittedly, this is the Shard I am less sure on. I include it because Holiness is perhaps the largest part of divinity, and it gives Odium the context Hoid talks about. Also, there is a mysterious planet called Purity in the Threnodite system that doesn't follow the pattern of funeral songs. As I mentioned in the write-up for Ambition, it's possible that it belongs in this slot in Divinity, leaving Mercy in its place in Action. However, doing so would leave Odium without those virtues to give it context in the subject of Divinity, and would leave both groupings somewhat unbalanced. Edit 1: Added Part 2 in spoiler below (hopefully):
  10. M:SH spoilers When Kelsier is leaving Scadrial to find the Ire, Ruin tries to stop him by telling him it will be fruitless, but is unable to follow him. Preservation also states that he can't go where Kelsier does. That said, the Ire mistake Kelsier for Ruin's Vessel, so take that as you will. I'd say that the avatar's can only be present on their own planet.
  11. Scadrial is supposed to have some good waffles, I hear. Hardly fictitious, but still tasty. There's also cookies that contain high iron content and magic. More serious, you could make a cretaceous kind of dish from Roshar, and separate by women's food (sweet) and men's food (spicy). Supplemented with different colours of wine (you'll have to find the quotes about how they're made, cause it's different than here).
  12. M:SH and BoM spoilers: I also want to see MeLaan and Wayne (if he manages to achieve immortality at some point) become a worldhopping pair, though I'm not sure if they'd be as suited to it as Marasi. I believe Brandon has said he plans for Shai to be a worldhopper, so maybe we'll see her again in Oathbringer or sometime in the future. Also, our friends of the 17th Shard, Galladon, Demoux, and Baon should make another appearance in Urithiru sometime soon if they want to survive the Desolation and find Hoid. As others have said, I would like to see Jasnah's interactions with the Cognitive Realm lend her some knowledge of other planets; at the very least, Braize and Ashyn, as the Rosharans may need to flee the planet at some point in the future of these books. She may be on the path to becoming a worldhopper. Dalinar is also a likely choice for future Cosmere-awareness, as he's heard the name Adonalsium a few times and is now in a position where people in the know may bring him up to speed on such things. We do know Gavilar knew something of this stuff, as did Amaram. Taravangian is coming and he was in league with them at some point. EDIT: I forgot about Khriss and Nazh! They're bound to have a field day in Urithiru!
  13. I want Mraize and Iyatil to have some more screen time. Definitely want to see more of Wit. Would like it if the Ghostbloods have even more worldhoppers around there as well.
  14. That's what I was thinking, but it is admittedly different from Adonalsium's Shattering.