Jorr

Oii! No offense meant, of course, but I mean... black smoke who makes its host more powerful...where's the punch in that??

I voted Dai-Gonarthis, as he's been built as a pretty mysterious figure. Granted, we know even less about Chemoarish but she doesn't feel as relevant as he does. Some place for changing minds about who's coolest but Yelig-nar is definitely the lamest one by a large margin

I wouldn't trust both Harmony's knowledge and Endowment herself, if her actions don't support it. Of course, Cultivation and Endowment may have planned nothing together - the text doesn't offer us any leads to that effect. However, it seems awfully convenient that a Vessel-killing weapon just happens to be created on Endowment's world after a supposed visit to Roshar by its creators and then this weapon somehow ends up in Cultivation's hands when one of those creators returns to Roshar. Okay, not jumping to conclusions, but...

It seems pretty obvious to me that Vasher basically served as a way for Endowment to bring about the creation of Nightblood and then hand it over to Cultuvation. It seems to have always been the plan they came up with. I wouldnt be surprised if Zahel showed up on Roshar just about the time Taravangian went to the Valley and Cultivation was able to create her pawn.

Okay but I don't remember spren being involved. Just the songs and the stones. Question is, these sound like the Surges, as clearly axial connection is manipulated, but is it SurgeBINDING...?

Why is nobody talking about the Singers being "forbidden to use the Surges", while also apparently stoneshaping entire cities?

Thanks guys, I think @Spren of Kindness has it right, the guy on the bottom right is definitely not having Lopen looks. And indeed Sigzil is darker skinned, Inshould have thought of that. Pity about Rlain. But I can finally put some face to Moash...

I know this is being silly but can someone please help me identify who's who on the poster (the one with the uniforms) I can't even place Moash.. although he's probably the scrawny guy with the translucent shardblade to the right of Kaladin. Teft is with the beard and I should guess Sigzil is the bottom-right most one. Renarin is up there and Rock is pretty obvious. But Rlain is missing and I can't quite place the others. I'm guessing the one to the immediate top-left of Kaladin is Lopen?

All of this is very confusing. It definitely doesnt make sense that some singers survived BAM's imprisonment to fight at Feverstone Keep (I dont buy Parallax's theory that Regals were unaffected, it just doesnt strike true - all singers except the listeners were Connected to her). At the same time, the imprisonment cant have happened after the Recreance because there no Radiants to do it. Something is fishy here, regardless of that WOB. The only possibility I see is that the Recreance WAS a protracted event and the Radiants at Feverstone (not necessarily their entire orders) were not part of the imprisonment. Why wasnt their act mentioned in the archives? Well, the archives also dont mention Honor rambling. Because... we are not seeing the full archive after all. We are seeing a couple of the entries.

I like this theory much better than the baby one, however it seems weird to me that it wouldnt be immediate surprise for Taravangian and hence mentioned in the text after his ascension.

Huh... thats super on point! I never realized Odium had worked both sides at the same time and Honor and Cultivation too had claimed both sides at the same time. Kudos! I would assume the switch went like this: - Odium seduced Ashynites with promises of power, luring Ishar (and others?) into experimenting with the Surges in a destructive manner. Not sure if Ashynites knew about H&C and whether they had any influence on Ashyn. - Humans escaped to Roshar. Not sure if Odium planned for or wanted that. Reagrdless, Honor saw this as an opportunity to take away from Odium's power. He spoke to the human leaders and offered them safe shelter, asking the singers to comply. - Honor and Cultivation became both revered by both humans and singers. Odium was present in the system but rejected by humanity due to what happened on Ashyn. - Proceeds as Leuthie points out. Some humans would of course continue to look to Odium for power and their voices would eventually find their way to seducing humans out of Shinovar. In the meantime Odium worked the singers secretly, fanning their sense of betrayal that land was taken by newcomers, and maybe he was even able to work on some of the spren to cause their gradual preference for humans instead of gemheart bonds. - Tensions escalated, Honor and Cultivation.tried to reconcile both parties but over the long run they lost the singers and were unable to curb human advance (this is the most dubious point seeing how they were infinitely powerful and should have been able to better influence humans but lets go to Shard limitations for that). - War broke out. Honor believed this could be quickly done with and by forcing Odium out of Roshar and on Braize, he could win back the singers. Odium outtricked him. The war went forver and the singers never lost their sense of betrayal.

This topic has some great insights but I have to say a couple of things still don't make any sense to me: - Nahel bond needs broken souls. How is that relevant for a girl of 4-5 years? OK, her parents were fighting but I mean, come on. - Why would the Cryptics choose A LITTLE GIRL for a bond. They could have literally chosen what, hundreds, thousands, millions of other people??? - What sorts of terrible truths will A LITTLE GIRL admit to her spren to earn the Third Ideal? Yes, the "solemn" ones from the quote but again, come on. This takes A LOT away from the other Radiants process to earn their Ideals if a little girl can reach so far. The entire thing seems like an afterthought. Very untypical for Brandon.

It's mentioned above but I would second that we shouldnt extrapolate Rosharan shenanigans to the Cosmere. Roshar is a planet whose fauna is historically and evolutionary related to sound and rhythm. There is absolutely no reason to assume that the effects of these sounds and rhythms on the LOCAL kind of investiture can be replicated to any other planet and investiture. Bottomline: perfect pitch people are not going to create anti-investiture across the cosmere.

While they are both not fain, it could be possible they were in contact with the fain ecosystem somehow

Thanks guys, you have raised really good objections and I have to admit my disappointment did somewhat subside. I think I can most buy @Wandering Investor's description of the situation and how it was presented on screen. With regards to some points, raised by @Lunu’anaki: - Hoid. I meant that in retrospect it didnt seem necessary for him to spend a zillion years trying to overmatch Rayse who didn't turn out quite a threat. Yes, Odium the Shard is a threat, but I strongly feel Hoid had a beef with Rayse in particular (I vaguely remember a personal story being the reason for this) and not the power of Odium, which he still views as a legitimate part of Adonalsium's self. Also, I beg to differ - Hoid certainly recognized that someone else had taken the shard in the epilogue. Unless you mean his erased memories, in which case - yes, but assuming this entire scene can be taken at face value at all, what with all the illusionst yada yada. - Renarin and the sword. Yes, Renarin shrouded Szeth but Rayse definitely cant have believed the sword is in Urithiru - he can just sense it not being there after all, and he also has in invasion force holding the tower, whose first task would be finding the sword. In fact, it was specifically mentioned by some of the singers that "the assasin" (i.e. the lightweaved version) is gone, all the more supposedly warning Odium to take care. ON TOP of this, what kind of a god steps into his own crafted vision with his own real body that can be killed? That was silly too. - My self-contradictory desription of Rayse's portrayal. Well, I don't see it that contradictory. My point was that his craftiness and underlying danger were big time hyped by other parties but ON SCREEN (i mean, page...) we always saw him as pretty pathetic.