Meg

At first on topic, I don't have problems with Jasnah. I like her, her "high ideals" (literally, as I understand her wanting to be good at all she wants to learn), and I like that she has weak moments, too. She isn't a character who I respond emotionally to. And this is good. As a reader I can't relate to every character. Also I don't think it's the intention of an author to write stories about people and worlds where any reader can relate to any character. Now off topic (kind of). In a way each of those "love" or "hate" threads makes me wonder. I have participated on one or more, I admit. I can kind of understand when the posts are about emotions that a character evokes (best examples might be Kaladin and Shallan). But contentwise discussions about fictional (!) characters and events, set in fully fictional l worlds (or cosmeres ;)) seem obsolete to me. I want to explicitly state that I don't want to offend anybody neither in this thread nor in some other thread.

IMHO yes, because both kinds of entities are Cognitive Shadows. Though, being "immortal" is, as we at the latest post Rhythm of War (actually already since Oathbringer) know, not really immortality. Now I'm confused. Do you ask about the bodies the Fused snatched from singers? Insofar I have no idea.

@Frustration The breaking of gemstones obviously had happened when Shallan had soulcast the Wind's Pleasure. I've edited my first post above with the quote. Maybe this was because he didn't "work" with the Stormlight rather than unconsciously use it for healing? Also he had Syl's help. You're right but isn't this the kind of Lashing that uses the least amount of Stormlight. When he did the feat with the shield he also certainly had more than one sphere on his body, IIRC.

As far as I understand it, the tuning forks don't "instantly remove all Stormlight" from a gem. At least I don't read the following passage from Rhythm of War, Chapter 69, first two and a half paragraphs, this way: Also earlier in Rhythm of War when the Sibling sent Navani and the others to fill the first node, it didn't seem like a instantaneous transfer of Stormlight -- the need to hurry wouldn't have arisen. edit and adding: I've seen or heard it theorizing that when Shallan soulcast the Wind's Pleasure in Words of Radiance (almost at the end of chapter 7) the "cracks" she heard were gems breaking. I don't recall, though, where I'd heard/read this but I will add the quote from Words of Radiance. This seems rather distinctly told?

In advance: My English still isn't very good (even given all the English -- mostly Brandon's -- books I've read since I stumbled over BS :)) also I've never been good in physics. :) When I read this I recalled this scene from Words of Radiance: What those spren do, I don't have an idea. :) Anyways sticking objects together is something windspren -- and Syl -- can do themselves, without "human" intervention. That was my impression also -- with the added effect that the ground drained them of Stormlight what might be caused by Ishar having combined the "Physical Adhesion" with "Spiritual Adhesion" by "making their powers see the stones as part of their body". IMHO Spiritual Adhesion is creating a "spiritual" (or/and cognitive?) bond, as it was with Dalinar in Azir. Unfortunately Rock wasn't there to tell us whether there also were spren involved. I don't think that Kaladin even thought about such a possibility. Would he know about Connection? So for reasons of simplification Spiritual Adhesion is creation something that doesn't bind "things" together while Physical Adhesion it is when physical things get bound.

I apologize for my wisecracking (especially because I had missed that Weltall already told :(). Also, even without dyslexia I also can easily make typos, so don't worry. Sorry, again. Thus: Don't be angry about yourself.

Additionally to what was already said I'd like to throw in this WoB: So there is some connection happening even before Syl (and sorry, I can't help myself but mention this, her name is Sylphrena and her nickname is Syl, not Sly :D) and Kaladin consciously met and came together. I guess, though, that we should not forget that Kaladin did train hard after Tien's death. As to why he failed when he tried in the training grounds there already are answers but besides his mental problems at this time he also was recovering from a serious physical injury what (as I can imagine) messed up his balance.

At first I like to steal The Cosmere Unaware's disclaimer. ;) I ... don't like Shallan very much. Though differently -- in fact diametrically opposite to The Cosmere Unaware's impressions -- I had more problems with Shallan in The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. Maybe that's because I'm kind of envying her: A young girl (16 years isn't quite mature, I'd say) coming from a secluded rural home, simply goes out in the world to "hunt" an important person and steal from that person. So I asked myself: Where did she get that strong self-assurance? For me, her behavior was just one big contradiction. Okay, we learn more about her in Words of Radiance, especially in her flashbacks. That she was confined to the family's house, without (too) much contact with other people. That she'd gone through at least three major traumatic events (killing her mother at age 11 and murdering -- even strangling! -- her father at age 15), breaking her bond with Testament (and with this losing her only special, understanding and helpful friend), and other rather drastic experiences. All the more reasons to lack confidence, IMHO. But no, she just grows and grows and learns in a speed that seems unreal for me. I see, that she was under a certain pressure to grow but anyways, it felt overstated for me. I see, that a lot of her achievements are from creating illusions (not only the lightweaving but also the different personas). Only later, especially in Rhythm of War, were some of her "mysteries" about her personas got resolved, and where I learned, that those are not (only) illusions but part of her mental problems, it was that I didn't mind her too much anymore. Maybe, over the course of four books, I just got more used to her, and I want to know about her childhood as there still are holes. Aside from liking or not liking Shallan in general, she (and others, like Kaladin, Dalinar, Taravangian and more) feels off to me because there (often) are no repercussions after having done bad or just dumb things. I apologize for blabbing so much but I wanted to tell. :)

Like so many: Adolin and Syl. :) Having people like them caring and helping, that's something I can only dream about. Also as an "add on" Adolin's care for Maya and Gallant. ("Never be afraid to show a little respect to those you depend on.") The not-anymore-Blackthorn Dalinar even though he had to be "forced" onto this new way. Kaladin because he lives his motivation. Syl and Kaladin (except the sometimes too lengthy fight scenes), Bridge Four, Rysn, Lift, and last but not least, Renarin. ;) Confusing? Raboniel (she confused me because I wanted to believe here sincerity). Intriguing, hmm. Wit and Pattern (because I still don't get what I can take for true and when he lied, despite the lies he already admitted). Oh, Yalb, Syl, Pattern and Rock. ;) And: Kaladin in the chapter where they had to learn riding. ;) I literally "laughed out loudly" when I read this. :P (I like horses, as one might figure. :D) The "still-Blackthorn" Dalinar, especially about the way he treated Evi. Amaram, I hated him from the very first time he appeared on screen. Moash for his betrayal and going trough with his (petty) revenge. Lezian for his dumb tradition. And though I love Kaladin, I would like to give him some slapping, especially for being so dumb and naive to give the Shardblade and Shardplate to Moash. Kaladin though I feel that he's worse than I am but at the same time stronger than I am (but this might be because he has Syl and his powers which let him go on when "normal" people wouldn't be able to; thus his realization that he might have ended up in one of those "sanatoriums" would things have gone differently). There is the scene after Dalinar told him he'd be released from active duty and when Kaladin came to his rooms he just broke down. (I know this feeling: "He wanted to cry, because at least this would be a release. ... wishing he could shrivel away.") Navani and Kaladin (I can't help myself :) and Teft. Oh, that's hard. :) One might expect that I would say Kaladin but, no. I'd like to have him as a friend but not being in a relationship with him. To be honest, I can't say. Even though I love and hate characters they are just fictional, I can't talk with them, get to know them as people, experience them interacting with me. None.

Are there "capital G" Gods (plural)? I mean, in one and the same culture or religion? I admittedly don't remember. So it is, IMHO? I agree with Wyndlerunner that I think it's intentional by BS that he doesn't talk about the Beyond. I don't get here whether you're talking of God or god, sorry. The definition of "god"/"deity" seems to go in this direction though this is not necessarily the definition of "God" (in real life, as here the "capital G" is an invention of monotheistic religions). For some religions on Earth: yes. Hmm, for each planet/culture/region a Shard can be "God" (for example as the Almighty is/was for the Vorins). In addition I dare hint that on some Shardworlds people worship the "God Beyond" or "Unknown God" though we don't know yet whether the "God Beyond" is related to the Beyond. Now there's a new reply to my yet unfinished edit. Sorry for the confusion.

The only quote I remembered -- though it's rather old already -- is this from 2016: (source) This would bring the Beyond again into this. It doesn't help with the initial question, though, but would hint more at it the "sun" in the Cognitive Realm being a "sort of unreachable backdrop thing".

I couldn't agree more Hahaha?? ... Is sarcasm a proper response here? I mean, I might misinterpret you, Frustration, but I feel you're making fun on a simple typo? Please clarify. Thank you.

Oh my, indeed I maybe should have read at least the Coppermind article on Light before answering. I made good for this now. Re-reading the corresponding chapters in Rhythm of War might also help. :) It seems I was misleading Waffles. Thanks Leuthie for your post.

I feel like the Investiture doesn't have an Intent(ion) itself. It's the Shards (and by extension Splinters etc.) that have Intents. Also the Shards' Vessels have Intents which not always fully align with their Shard's. People have to have a special Intent to use Investiture (it depends on the Investiture itself). That said, I don't think that being a loving person would be enough or the right "Intent" to create anti-Voidlight. Otherwise, I'm sure, a lot of anti-Voidlight would already be around on Roshar. Thus I'd say that no Investiture carries any Intent or anti-Intent. I guess you already read the respective articles on the coppermind wiki or looked through the Arcanum? If not, I strongly recommend doing it. *Disclaimer: I'm not up to date and rusty on my cosmere knowledge.

For a longer while I was only reading the forums. Today as was to be expected I found those posts about the results in USA. I'm not from the USA but I am afraid. Your 'shared' post, Kaymyth, just hits the bull's eye (the nail on the head, whatever :) translating idioms is not that easy) and one passage I'd like to *steal* if it is okay for you, Kaymyth. This passage: This because I'm afraid I will have to use it here in Germany, especially Bavaria, soon also. I hope for all of you in USA -- and for the rest of the world -- that it won't get that bad as it seems from what this person told during the events prior to the choice told.

I admit that I didn't read the thread but honestly that "editor" is an imposition. I've written a long answer then at first the preview only showed a part of it ... okay, I thought, try it: I click submit and get there is NO answer but a "message" near the submit button "this field is required". Also there is no save button or automatic save as it had been in the previous version. Quoting itself is most bothersome as for one has to scroll up to the text, highlight it, click quote, scroll down. I'm sorry, I do respect the work and your time you are investing in this forums but I'm very unhappy with those changes.

Honestly, I'd rather pay and have the possibility to order and get the book than to be teased by knowing it exists and seems unreachable.

Did Mr. Sanderson give any hint whether he would allow discussion about the prose version after the graphic version is released (the first part)? I've to admit that as of yet I didn't think about differences. A compromise might be that on the upcoming White Sand forum a spoiler requirement is stipulated as in "everything regarding the prose novel is to put in spoiler tags". I honestly don't think it viable to indicate the prose novel readers to private messages when the graphic novel is released. Also I can imagine that one would unconsciously type a post without thinking of where the source comes from (prose or graphic). Spoiler requirements shall be easier to be enforced than full prohibition. If any discussion about the prose version will be prohibited after the release of the graphic novel, I really don't have an idea aside from intense moderating.

I'm not sure this is to find on Theoryland, though I'm a search-engine-sucker. I only found these two quotes that seem to be a little outdated if you are recalling this correctly, Oversleep.

Can you please give sources for the "bits we've known"?

I'm worried. As of yet Mr. Sanderson said (plainly) that the shades on Threnody were cognitive shadows. Some examples: or: and a last example: But now he's differentiating: Do I misunderstand the older statements? Or is there some discrepancy? Another uncertainty of mine. In the same transcription there is a question about "lithium" used "to charge". I take that this question also meant "Is lithium Ettmetal?" I'd appreciate help. And merely related: I understood the answer to the Iyatil-question also simply as for that she is a descendant of some Southern Scadrians. I think I recall that Mr. Sanderson also said that she wasn't born on Roshar (see here and the following posts there). Oudeis post made me wonder if the Southern Scadrians took to were masks to protect their faces from the sun and the heat post-TLR-Ascension and pre-Catacendre?

At first I honestly apologize to everybody who might feel bad because of my wording. I didn't want to make anybody sad. On the contrary my insistence comes from my view (that might be screwd up a bit?) on some terms. I also apologizes for the impression I gave apparently, that somebody with such issues schould be forced to receive therapy. I didn*t want to imply that they must change. On the contrary. But there also might be ones around who decide for therapy on their own record. Also it might be a lingual problem as well as one of my own perception. As I tried to explain, my insistence is caused by my feeling about some words. Honestly, if somebody calls me ill, that comes right for me: I am ill, so why shouldn't that be said? On the other hand "Insanity" has a bad connotion for me, it's devaluing and makes me think of former mad houses. Thus I for myself prefer "ill" over "insane". Though reading those posts I get the impression that in the English language its otherwise around? On Autism being an illness or not I'd add that it is listed in ICD-10 also, which seems to be standard while the DSM-V is rarely used. "The other person"? Is that me? Anyway that differentiation you're making eludes me. I'd appreciate an explanation. I'm sorry for once again straying off topic. Probably a mod might split that thread?

That runs actually along my thoughts: I'd guess Wax is jealous. We don't know how he behaved around Lessie. But then, she had a 100% contrary character than Steris has. I can imagine that Wayne just wants to have Wax only for himself and doesn't want to share him with others, at least not with somebody who'll get very close to Wax. That feeling of Wayne's might be subconscious but I'm rather sure it is part of his behavior. As about insanity: That seems to be a sore spot for me but I have to repeat myself: Steris is not insane, she is ill, not insane. Also Wayne isn't insane. Both of them have issues that might be cured with the applying therapy (so a soother or rioter wouldn't be such IMHO). If anyone is insane that might apply to TLR or Uncle Edwarn/Mr. Suit. At least my comprehension of the word "insane" is connoted very negatively.

It is exactly this: "a crazy woman" what makes me like Wayne less. That might be obvious from my first post in this thread. He himself being "crazy" (if one wants to put having some issues that way -- I myself don't approve of such terms) IMHO makes him even less capable of judghing others' "crazyness". Funnily that term ("freedom of speech") struck me in Aeromancer's post. Throwing in fundamental rights in a discussion about a fictional character is way off on such forums. Also, one shall not forget, each fundamental right has its limits!

I would not say I hate Wayne but he surely isn't my favorite character. I have to admit that I kind of refused reading Alloy of Law for a long time though I had the book. This partially because of the "Wayne hype" I saw in some threads. When I finally started with AoL I was instantly caught by Steris. And one of the first things I got to read from Wayne was him calling Steris insane. Hence he had a bad bad start with me. Now, three books later I just feel mostly indifferent in regard to him, though -- no, because -- he himself has a lot of flaws, I still loathe his early comment about Steris. I might have been biased against him because everybody else seems to love him.