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Nepene last won the day on May 15 2013

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  1. There's nothing in this that I disagree with, other than your false characterization of me saying all Harmony has done is send Lessie. Although I'll note his preparation seems wildly inadequate. He hasn't been supporting Wax and Wayne with any obvious servants other than the Kandra. His Kandra were crushed when they tried to act in Shadows of Self. The Set now have strategic magical nuclear weapons. In theory he did a lot, but in practice a group of five or six of his servants are, mostly alone, opposing a more technologically advanced army. The enemy has at least one Kandra double agent, we've not seen any double agents from his side even when it would have been super useful for them to show themselves. It looks like if he was opposing the Set the Set won decisively.
  2. Indeed, powerful forces are working to limit his knowledge, there is a secret force bent on destroying intelligent life on Scadrial, the Set is pushing technology forward, Harmony may be trying to both allow them to operate and corrupt people while mitigating the worst of the damage and push technology forward. Based on this he- should take responsibility for Lessie. He took a controlled risk to allow them to operate and mitigate their damage. It failed, and so he's reasonably responsible for the consequences, especially since he also told Lessie to be best friends with Wax. He shouldn't critique Elendel for not having the advantages of said secret society. For decades or centuries the Set have gone unexposed and have been preparing under a conflict mode while Elendel has been unaware of any conflict and hasn't been able to speed up development of technology to counter them, and hasn't had divine servants to feed them info. He should probably stop them getting game changing technology, since in the prior book one of the enemy god's servants tried to destroy the food supply and wreck the city and almost succeeded. If nothing else, he should be worried that the other entity will try to cause chaos in his city and destroy the food supply with a large bomb. He shouldn't have allowed his counterpart to get the technology to make a large bomb. That should have been kept away from them. Lack of drastic action could mean they repeat what they did in shadows of self.
  3. How would people feel about a Wax quest, with multiple people being able to decide and vote on his actions? In this it would be where he had at the end of the novel decided to Keep the bands of mourning so he could wipe out and destroy the Set. Using standard mistborn rpg rules. You'd control Wax and House Ladrian and be able to decide on various actions he could take, personally handling problems or dispatching people to do so, working with Wayne and others. I think in six days (6 months after January 26th) this forum will be merged and spoiler issues will be ended, although if not then any such roleplay would presumably need to be consigned to this forum or something. Not sure exactly how that would work. This post is put here since it's a topic mostly about spoilers of an ongoing series, and, while a roleplay, is bound to have lots of talk of spoilers of the series and as such I'd assume this is the default board for posting. This is the rpg's guide to roleplaying Wax. Note that the mistborn rpg was written with the approval of Brandon and so the idea of roleplaying one of his characters is something he has considered and not veto'd. Would people be interested in this sort of roleplay?
  4. You're welcome. Note my phrasing- he's not the sort of person you want as a leader, not that he lacks leadership ability. He has the ability to control people, yes, but not necessarily the ability to predict the consequences of his actions, or understand those around him. That mission was an intellectual one, which is what he is suited for. People would follow him into hell, and he would lead people into hell blithely unaware of why the temperature had suddenly increased. For example, an alien god's ettmetal nuke hell.
  5. On the dullness or lack thereof- So yes, some sort to subjugate the will of others. And it's noted that war between Elendel and other cities was only prevented with careful diplomacy, not that other cities didn't war. In both the cases of subjugation and an ongoing tense situation there would be conflict that would encourage the nations to spend lots of money on military science. While these books are only guided by Brandon in the third mistborn book the tense warlike situation happened with no actual war but espionage and stealing of technology. What actual evidence do you have that it's free from outside conflict? The not perfect situation could easily include actual war between nations, as almost happened in book 3, or as was hinted at in the rpg. The person was saying that people in general could always pay for maintenance of family on wages, I was challenging that- there are several situations mentioned in the novels and the rpg that make that an uncertain statement. I previously in the thread noted my argument on this- essentially, that Harmony was wrong to think they should have developed tech this fast, based on in novel statements, real world stuff, and the fact that the other nation that got flying tech only did so because a sliver gave them tech to help out. Broadly speaking, Harmony was complaining about him being too helpful, when in fact another nation was able to fly only because an ex god was too helpful. They have lots of settlements in the roughs, limited by their population, and they have discovered the southern continents and their unknown metal by the first novel. In terms of settling the roughs more, if they had more population then it would be settled more. Harmony is dumb to think that his fertile basin inhibited exploration. Outside attack is clearly an issue as book 3 proves, and as stated here, the wealth and affluence of Elendel encourages danger and competition and exertion. Elendel is a cut throat city of extremes where some starve and barely survive in slums, with heavily patched clothing that's barely held together, and some become incredibly rich off opportunities. The extremely long work hours and need to exert yourself to not starve is mentioned in book 2. So, so long as you don't mind starving to death, no, there's no need to exert yourself. Harmony sent one of his servants to help out Wax, and said servant ended up brutally murdering lots of people, getting spiked with alien metal spike, and acting psychotic enough that Wax had to kill her. People are responsible for the action of their servants. He used prophesy powers to find a hugely unpleasant solution to fix his mistakes, yes, but he also seriously dropped the ball with her. Also, he's allowing the servants of Trell far too much freedom. It's an important thing to recognize in oneself. This has always been an issue of Sazed's. Before, he had huge amounts of knowledge which he could only access if he tapped his copperminds. He knew a lot, but didn't really have any good idea of how to apply it. He's knowledge smart, but he's not street smart, or charismatic. That is an issue he has as a shard as well. He knows a lot, but he doesn't have any good ability to synthesize it or apply it well. High int, low charisma, low wisdom. He's a nice person and very keen to try to see things from people's viewpoints after the fact but he's not the sort of person you really want in a leadership position. He probably hasn't actually thought much about what life is like as an average Elendel worker. Your post is reasonable and non rude.
  6. So engineering- something that the lord ruler kept relatively advanced, and something that wasn't much of an issue since they had their perfect Elendel. Farming methods, which Sazed made redundant with the fertile area. Astronomy, which wasn't very useful since they weren't a naval power. Not really useful knowledge for them advancing. The second book was about an alien god's servant causing floods and famine so I wouldn't assume life is universally dull for them. Complaints about slums, poorly patched clothing, crappy food are fairly common. The closest thing we have to a source, hopefully made with some input/ approval by Brandon- From the alloy of law mistborn rpg of semi canonness. That seems more likely to me than your theories that they definitely have enough money to sustain themselves and that there were no wars. Why wouldn't cities have had wars and conflicts given that such a war is a major theme of book 3? We repeatedly see hunger, poverty, and slums in the books, why wouldn't they exist? Clearly people are having issues paying for stuff on their basic wages. @CaptainRyan The pace of technological development, the source of flying tech, the source of the radio tech, whether he's made it too easy, the theoretical lack of exploration, people having everything they want, the effects of poverty on technological development and the general lack of everyting people want, him not being sorry for his failure to do much to counter alien gods and his degree of fault for that. Those are the immediate ones that come to mind. Again, no evidence for common renaissance tech other than buildings and economics, no evidence for a lack of conflict (and it's a major theme of book 3 mistborn and mentioned in the rpg so seems improbable, plus they have soldiers) and very little evidence for extensive tech dumping by Sazed. Edit. On the semi canonness of the rpg. So there's nothing 'wrong' with the rpg, it's based on his notes and brainstorming, but someone else wrote it.
  7. @CaptainRyan Does it ever state that the words of founding include scientific knowledge? Yes, it included science of recent events, the magical science, but non magical science? On Harmony being omniscient, Shard holders have limited personal attention. The Shard knows everything but the man has limited personal attention. He also doesn't necessarily understand much of the new knowledge in the shard. He gets the metaphysical stuff, but inventions and economics may just be something he has access to. Shards have high int, but low wisdom, in terms of dnd stats. In universe stuff has repeatedly contradicted him so I distrust his knowledge. So by my estimation, someone like Marasi who spends most of her life actually being in the city and trying to understand it might actually know more about economics than Sazed who doesn't really care and is distracted. This is why most shards we've seen make a ton of splinters, because they can't focus on everything all the time. On income inequality- I mean, I could stop talking about it, but when you entirely ignore what I said and make statements about income inequality right after- "They have had over 300 years which is, roughly, anywhere from 10-15 generations of people. While gen 1 and 2 (and maybe 3) had a lot of issues with housing etc., gen 4 - 10/15 had a very easy experience compared to anything pre-mid 20th century on Earth. " Yeah, in canon, false, Elendel is a very rough and dangerous and conflict filled city in heavy part due to income inequality, and not at all paradise filled or conflict free. @king of nowhere If you look at the renaissance technology list I noted, they basically had none of that. They were more 12th or 13th century in a lot of areas. In particular, they lacked the printing press which meant knowledge dissemination was much, much slower. Any books or scientific manuals had to be written by hand.
  8. Neither, it connects to souls. From Emperor's Soul- People and the land are both objects with souls, and it connects to both. It may just be that countries have unusually strong souls, and so blank connection easily connects to it.
  9. compiling list

    I'm not sure you can really buy atium. You acquire it with the right trade contacts, sometimes. But you can definitely reliably buy breath. And later on you can't buy atium, so if a secret conspiracy had a mistborn with atium they would be hard to defeat. This would be a potential way.
  10. Elantris, warbreaker, and mistborn spoilers
  11. compiling list

    The ideal is that it serves as an effective ambush that can bypass things like electrum and atium, and one that a worldhopper can purchase with cash. Having a bit of banter between mistborn and mistings is pretty common. Mistborn have fast reflexes, normal weapons even at point blank range can be dodged. Is there a brandon quote that you can't steal breaths with a spike?
  12. compiling list

    Coinshot (steel misting) and breath. This would allow you to kill any mistborn, feruchemists, or similar things by giving them your breath. A shardblade could work well too, or a spike to recover the breaths.
  13. We do have one hint at how this is possible, when a cognitive shadow gains a physical form in another book. The stormfather. He forms a nahel bond with Dalinar and as such could theoretically form a shardblade. Other cognitive entities, like spren, can also form a bond with a person and thus get a physical anchor. I don't know if anyone has asked, but I wonder if it would theoretically be possible to spike a spren. I dunno if anyone has asked. Could one psychotic spren decide to spike all the other spren to gain their powers? Can a spike be used on a cognitive entity like a cognitive shadow or a spren?
  14. You misread the book I think. You fill the metal mind with unkeyed connection (and presumably are less good at communicating) and whilst filling have no ability to talk to people of other locations. Then someone else uses the device, tapping it, and can talk to whoever is most common in a particular location. If you were a feruchemist you could theoretically make an unkeyed metalmind which allowed communication in a different language, filling it and then letting another tap it to speak your language. Whether that actually works is up to the author.
  15. I have read that and considered that, but his actions seem to be more based on human bias than shard knowledge. Most of his failures are around his failure to understand the clear reality of Scadrial clearly presented in the books, not in his ability to research outside things. Also, he's not taking effective measures to counteract his limitations. Sadly not, the book was clear on that- Harmony included vague hints as to future tech, like flight and electricity, but didn't actually give direct guides. It mostly included guides to past religions, another sign of Sazed's human biases coming into play- while other nations were teching up fast with divine aid, his nation was only slowly teching up. I'd agree with Wax's comments that their advances seem incredible, and see Sazed as rather dumb in his put downs based on others getting divine aid and therefore advancing faster in certain areas. And the books are clear in this. Ranette makes many new inventions based on this. Sanderson totally knows that a rich prosperous city attracts inventions and lots of crime. This isn't some odd principle. The author and statisticians know better than a god about what is happening on Scadrial- technology is advancing very quickly and conflict is strong enough at a local level to attract a lot of inventions and science. We repeatedly through the novel see new inventions and science arising from the prosperity Harmony created which he's now complaining about. There is no complacency. Technology, as a matter of canon, is advancing faster because of the high level of conflict in the wealthy, prosperous city Harmony created, limited by how much wealth there is in the city to fund inventors. They are incredibly far from being in a paradise. Although, some of the unfairness of society is killing off some of their scientists. An excess of conflict in this case lead to a very valuable inventor dying depressed. Perhaps if there was more wealth equality he could have got a steady job, made the radio, and pleased Harmony. While humans do have a certain amount of happiness which is based on the wealth of those around you, things like not having enough money for food or healthcare, having a horrible job, having no free time or free money to spend with friends does cause unhappiness. Being very poor, as the above inventor was, is a cause for unhappiness, in reality and in canon. Scientists are dying because of income inequality. An alien god cult is worsening income equality and Sazed is refusing to challenge it strongly while it prepared magic nukes to wipe out all life on the planet, or while it weakens Scadrian science.