GameOfGroans

Of course - but some of us enjoy reading about romance just for our own pleasure in identifying with it. Most of the time Kaladin doesn't (seem to) think much about relationships - but Syl does repeatedly emphasize that he needs a companion and that being alone is not good for him. Keep in mind that most of what we've seen about him was when he was depressed, in various crises, blaming himself left and right, burdened by his father's disappointment in him (and what he presumed was many other people's disappointment). In such a state, few people would feel ready for a relationship, or believe they deserve to be happy, or that other people could be happy with them. It's pretty much only after this book that he might be actually ready. (I hope I won't have to wait 6 or 9 or 12 years to read about that, but it seems likely.)

It's perfectly possible that honourspren have no idea who actually killed Testament, especially seeing that they don't see eye to eye with Cryptics. Cryptics might know, but we don't see so many around even in Shadesmar, and one wonders what did they see in Shallan that was so special to send her 2 spren as a kid. Maybe it's RAFO. Even Stormfather or Odium don't see and know everything, let alone regular spren. As for generic morality, Shallan punishes herself way harder than any reasonable adult would. Which child wouldn't reject the thing that killed her mother? She didn't know it would result in the spren's death, and the books give no reason to believe that child Shallan meant to kill her mother. To me it sounded like she was desperate to survive, and the spren guided her what to do, without little Shallan realizing what would happen. Every story has to have some things brushed under the rug for the sake of convenience, anyway. SA does better than 95% of them, IMO.

If you really want to understand this part, you need to keep in mind that nature made humans to survive, not thrive. Most of the human history, we were at the edge of extinction. Ever wonder why humans are so sexual all the year, compared to most animals who are only in heat once or twice a year? We had to be hyper-sexual to survive as a species. So, survival and procreation are the two most basic urges of any animal, including people. And many people have an urge to not only procreate themselves, but to encourage others (their tribe especially) to procreate, to be stronger than other tribes. So on a purely biological level, most can feel that cishet is natural and desirable, while anything that doesn't encourage procreation, is a danger to the group survival. They might even be hormonally, on a physical level, repulsed by the latter. I know that's primitive and unnecessary in modern life especially. I also know that queer is natural too, and might even have some evolutional purpose, such as group cohesion or taking care of orphaned young. But our intellect and our hormones are very different things, and most people are still more driven by their instincts than their intellect (if they have enough intellect at all). I know I'm probably irritating you with this, but that's not my intention. I simply believe that if you really want to make things better, you need to understand the other side too, and explain, not blame. Because, again, people are primarily creatures of instinct, not logic.

I find it interesting how you list "quiet" among the unlikable qualities, though - even if there are no specific mentions or hints of that in the books, afaik.

I was thinking something on the line of, before the Recreance Honor was still alive (I guess?), so maybe that made a difference, but I also read a theory where imprisoning Ba-Ado-Mishram caused deadeyes happening as a side-effect for whatever reason (not that deadeyes were caused by imprisoning her, but after she was imprisoned, spren started dying as a result of broken oaths?). I wouldn't necessarily put my spheres on any of that, though.

"Oh, storms, she thought. Oh, rhythms ancient and new. I belong here." (Venli, chapter Songs of Stones) Will come back when I remember the second one

In my language there is actually the name Jasna - translated "clear", or Claire - but it's pronounced as Yasna. I can't make myself pronounce it with jay, it feels SO weird.

I don't read quite everything, but most of the topics that focus on somebody's queer or minority trait seem to be people rejoicing and celebrating representation. In this thread, one person expressed mild concern that Brandon might dilute the individuality of those characters while focusing on their outcast status, and a few people (IMO) misjudged their intentions. Although, I did notice several people who seem to hate Navani with the heat of a thousand splendid suns, and I couldn't not wonder if there are a few misogynists around. To be fair, it might be that they think she's too bland, or too Kholin. There are plenty of threads discussing cis male characters (white doesn't really count here), but it's pretty obvious why their cis-ness and maleness is not discussed. It's perfectly human and realistic when somebody is different than most to at least consider the influence such a difference has on a character, just as in real life. People who fit what the majority expects simply do not have problems with their self-image, or social problems, based on that. Of all the gay people I know, there is only one who didn't feel already since childhood that they don't quite belong and would not be accepted by the society. I agree it's sad and unfair, but it's also reality.

Veil is not gone, Veil is integrated. Which means she is more a part of real Shallan now than she was before. I'm curious what happens next ...

There seems to be a worrying online trend of presuming bad intentions and bad personality traits whenever somebody makes even a small mistake in expressing their thoughts about these things, or simply doesn't have enough experience to fully understand things - or even just bc of small disagreements. It doesn't help anyone, it only pushes people further apart. Personally, until Brandon confirmed that Renarin is autistic, I was convinced he simply had social anxiety. His communication seemed totally fine when he was with his family and presumably more relaxed. In fact, I have mild social anxiety as an adult, not enough to prevent me from functioning relatively normally , but as a kid and a teenager I was maybe even more shy than Renarin. But when I expressed something similar on another forum I was attacked left and right and made look like a villain just because I don't understand all the intricacies of autism So once again, guys: what The Disporportionate is saying is not that they have a problem with multiple "queer" traits in a single character, but that Brandon, in his writing about them, might forget to focus on the more individual parts of their personalities, especially considering how little screen time they get. It is certainly in the interest of any minority to be presented as complex personalities rather than only based on their "queer" traits, no?

Indeed, the longest and the most committed relationship in all of Roshar. What is the cosmere coming to?

Good one

Too bad. That would have been funny

It can't be happening. I didn't hear it, that mean it can't be true. I require full quote

... Suffladin...?