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  1. I was thinking that maybe a Willshaper would be able to do it (assuming they can shape metals at will which is pure hypothesis at this point) but then I thought, surgebinding probably wouldn't work on Aluminum anyway.
  2. I was very reluctant to post on this thread and this is exactly the reason. This is like saying "People hate Adolin because they were shipping Shallan and Kaladin" but I feel that this attitude is kind of disrespectful towards the minorities of this argument. It may not be intentional, so I'll try to explain myself here and hopefully find understanding on the other side. I believe that the Shallan-Adolin relationship is set up, if not to fail, to at least have a lot of turbulence in the next book. But this is not what made me believe that Adolin is a hateful character. This is not only an exaggeration, but also the realization and the conclusion are switched around. And this makes others doubt the credibility of my opinion. So let me clear this up, in case it isn't: I believe that Adolin isn't as nice as people think he is, that's why I think the relationship is set up to have a lot of turbulence, and this was my opinion from the moment I finished OB until now. I do not hate Adolin, but I can't say I like him yet either. I'm still expecting to see something more interesting about him at this point, that's why I consider myself neutral in this argument. I'll be perfectly honest and tell you that I had no issue with Adolin when I finished OB because I considered him a grey character. He's had good moments and he's had somewhat-evil moments and that made him interesting to me. He appears like a stable character, clear minded and his actions indicate him as well intended and good-natured, but that's only limited to what he has let out on the outside. The fact that we didn't have any of his internal thoughts, his aspirations and fears, (or whatever we got was neither perfectly good nor evil), I'm not sure what his internal struggle is. I always thought that his difficult childhood and militaristic upbringing should've affected him a lot more than what's been expressed so far in the books, so I've always been waiting for him to show his "true colors" at some point, whatever those may be. My previous experience with literature has led me to think that there was an underlying duality, that we haven't seen yet, and my interest to him revolves around the outcome of that assumption. Admittedly, I've never been on the Shard before OB so when I saw the majority of people loving Adolin's character, not for that duality, but for the fact that he is a straight good character that baffled me and it still does. Yes, if he was a real person I would love him too, but this is a fictional character, he'd make a better story to me if he had a path full of mistakes and grey choices. So, I guess I agree with @BraidedRose on this one:
  3. Also, another interpretation to that could be that he noticed she was bleeding from one personality to the next and back, from Veil to Radiant to Shallan, and realizing that her personality/crazy issues were a lot deeper than what he thought initially, he tried to flee the betrothal. There is also the fact that Veil dismissed him to get her a palanquin, it could be that his pride got hurt at that moment and that's why he bitterly said it's better to let Kaladin have her instead. Because, I've seen a lot of people arguing that he 'stepped down' but that phrase, "I'll let him have you", doesn't sound as a person taking a step back, but a person dumping another. Yeah, you can interpret what happened one way or another or another, but either way it's an interpretation. You just choose to believe one instead of the other.
  4. Yeah, but Adolin wasn't even aware of that, he actually ignored her when she said "But..." to him because he was too self absorbed into what he wanted to do. He just did what he wanted. We are not arguing what's best for Shallan, we are arguing if Adolin is paying enough attention to know Shallan and her needs, to know what's going on with her. Which he clearly isn't in this scene. This is clearly not a balanced relationship. Shallan goes over the top to please Adolin because she thinks that's what he deserves. She crafted for him the perfect bride, a woman that looked and acted as befitted Adolin Kholin, even if that isn't her. This is not a right balance and not two people walking their path in life together, it's Shallan running behind Adolin's whims. Only Shallan is making the effort here and the effort is so great on her part, that causes her harm.
  5. I'm going to disagree. When learning to play any sport in my life, we learned the sport and the physical conditioning was on the side. Never a pre-requisite. It just doesn't happen that way. You are right that physical conditioning could be done in parallel to the technique training for Shallan, we just didn't see any of that in the book. And you have a point that they do not always teach physical conditioning when they teach sports, probably because normal people never really sport for championships but we sport or fun. It's not usually a life-and-death need, so we don't take it as seriously either. I still think that sword fighting needs at least the physical strength to be able to lift the sword and wave it around at least long enough for a fight (even if you have auto healing abilities), and that physical strength can only be achieved with muscle building routine exercises. We can agree to disagree if you like and also add that IRL examples might not apply in Radiant training right? Either way, the training method isn't necessarily the issue here. The general argument is that Adolin, as a betrothed to a woman he supposedly loves, needed to be more perceptive about what she needed instead of what he wanted to be didactic about. Love is about putting the other person's needs above your own, right? So maybe instead we should be having an argument if Adolin actually cares about Shallan's needs at this point.
  6. Actually, in real life sports that's exactly what you do. For example, professional weightlifters are usually trained years into gymnastics first, because proper stance needs to be an innate ability in order to learn the proper lifting techniques. But we are digressing here, IRL examples don't apply in our case, because I'm not necessarily arguing "what the proper process in learning swordsmanship is" (which I think we both agree isn't what happened here) but that Adolin, as a betrothed to a woman he supposedly loves, needed to be more perceptive about what she needed instead of what he wanted to be didactic about. I'm not pretending anything. I'm saying out right that no, it wasn't the right thing to do with Shallan at that moment, because of the emotional trauma she has in using Pattern as a sword, but it's understandable because Adolin doesn't have any clue what is going on with Shallan, he just assumes he does. You mean stealth checks? Well, I firstly brought out the Wizard example in order to explain the reason of weapon proficiency, but maybe it's not that apparent to a non DnD player. I wouldn't call Shallan a rogue, she doesn't fit, she doesn't do anything stealthy and certainly not any sneak attacking, so I don't see the logic of thinking a rogue class matches. On the contrary there is a perfect match for Lightweavers in the Wizard's Illusionist. Let's agree to disagree on this one. I still think it's a lot harder to defend someone for being harmed than just killing a threat that's trying to kill just you.
  7. I didn't mean it like that! This is a family friendly forum after all...
  8. How about bisexual? That way nobody is left behind
  9. How about Chemoarish? It seems the Bavland mine villages swear in Dustmother's name and we know that the Davars had investments in mining right? Also: I find it particularly odd how sorting out the correct lore is phrased.
  10. You call it madness, but I hesitate to jump there. It could have been a matter of cold (very dark, and mistaken) logic rather than madness. And I don't think Shallan's willingness to kill someone trying to kill her (mother or not) is a sign of past relationship trouble. Especially since it was partially a mistake. First of all, how do we know it was a mistake? Both Shallan's mother and her lover were killed by mistake? Please explain to me where you got that impression that two consecutive murders at the same scene were an accident. Secondly, "a very dark and mistaken logic" is the definition of the word madness. The fact that a mother attempts to harm their own child under whatever storming logic, is pure madness and if you still disagree on this, then we just have to agree that we disagree. And I'm not trying to justify 'past relationship trouble' I'm justifying that Shallan has serious mental issues from past trauma. Either killing her own mother by mistake or not is traumatizing enough to break anyone, especially a small child. Shallan's second flashback could be interpreted as saying Lin's anger problems were a thing that took off after his wife died. I can see how that traumatic experience would push him over a cliff, and that he was a much more balanced person before. (I want to say there's also an argument to be made that one of the Unmade was affecting him, but I can't remember my basis for that.) So just because Lin went mad after his wife died justifies him for being brutal to his own children? Even if there is an Unmade influence (which I have the same impression and a theory along those lines) that doesn't make the family condition in which Shallan was brought up any less problematic. If these issues were not clear and explained while they were happening, which they weren't that's why his children murdered Lin in the first place, they still are enough to cause mental issues to everyone involved.
  11. Initially it was thought that in order to form a nahel bond a person needed to be 'broken', because from my small understanding of realmatic theory, that's what causes the cracks in the spirit web, requirement for a nahel bond to form. Since this WoB came up people have been doubting that a traumatic experience is needed, and I understand how people might double think that is what happened with Shallan. But can you truly say that this WoB erases all in book text of Shallan's flashbacks? Didn't her mother try to kill her because she showed Radiant powers? Did she just snap one day, or did she show signs of madness long before she was killed? What makes a kid kill its own mother, if it's not because of being a victim of abuse? What about Lin? Even if he was covering up Shallan's crime, he killed Malise Gevelmar and maimed Balat Davar. In Shallan's flashbacks, her brothers were constantly afraid of Lin because he was so abusive that she ended up poisoning him and strangling him herself, crying all the while and denying the truth to herself for a long time. Now I know Shallan is an unreliable narrator at this point. I mean, I don't see it plausible that all her memories could be artificial as the plot stands at this point, but for the sake of the argument let's say they are. The fact itself that she has such a damaged memory is an indication of huge emotional trauma. So I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that her nahel bond with Pattern is either made on that huge emotional trauma or on the lies she created herself in order to cover up a very horrible reality.
  12. I know we usually don't go off on the right foot @maxal but please try to take this post in the most positive and friendly way possible. Lin killed Malise Gevelmar and maimed Balat Davar in front of his children, please do not compare Lin to Dalinar, but as @Jofwu said earlier there is no reason to compare. Every person experiences trauma differently. Indeed a loving mother's death and a drunk father are enough for anyone to have a lot of psychological issues. You've clearly analysed and dissected any kind of text that references Adolin (as other readers do for Shallan), so I accept that you do have a strong case of Adolin having a troubled childhood, you seem to be a lot more insightful when it comes to Adolin's case than everyone else anyway. But what worries me in Adolin, is that we do not have any obvious indications he is indeed affected as much by it as an adult, at least it's not reflected on the behavior he shows on the outside. (yes to some readers it is obvious, but to other readers it isn't, so that can only mean it's not always so obvious, so there is at least some kind of duality to the character) On some topics we disagree, but on this one, from a person that has had a troubled childhood and now a kid of their own, I agree and I understand where you coming from. It's just that you related a lot more to Adolin, I related a lot more to Shallan. But it's not a competition, we are all trying to figure out what these characters are going through. Sometimes we just need to take a step back and notice that it's all fictional, it's just Sanderson's creation and it doesn't mean that it will always make perfect sense to us.
  13. Huh, I somehow missed this line, since I was only looking at the part that Shallan was in contact with the black heart. Yes, you are right. I was initially skeptical as to how Sja-anat would be able to telepathically contact Shallan, but the clue is right in the text. Through Shadesmar: Yes, these two occasions, before she reached Ashertmarn, could only be Sja-anat. Maybe we can consider the voice Shallan thinks as Wit to be Sja-anat? I don't know. Edit: We currently know that Sja-anat corrupts spren, not humans, but if she somehow is more powerful towards Shallan, maybe she could be able to corrupt her as well.
  14. Also this one:
  15. All voices are Ashertmarn's. Wit talking to her at that point doesn't make any sense. If he could communicate to her telepathically why hasn't he done that before ? Why show up and risk Odium finding him in the first place?