• Announcements

    • Chaos

      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
      Part 2 Reactions
      Part 3 Reactions
      Part 4 Reactions
      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.

Diomedes

Members
  • Content count

    17
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

40 Crew Leader

About Diomedes

  1. OB was all about defying truth (see the Ketek of Oathbringer). The next installment will feature this truth coming back with a vengeance. Sadeas murder will come back to haunt everyone. I predict Adolin going down a dark path for having enjoyed the murder and this satisfaction being the main motivation for it. Maybe when he sees how his home has been traeted this will cause hatred for the parshmen in him. He will want to have his revenge. And this is going to be the start of a long and twisted road. Dalinar will not be pleased. The Ghostbloods will play a more open role. They will cause tension between Shallan and Jasnah. (You did whaaat? Seriously Shallan, right after my supposed death you allied yourself with my murderers? Didn`t you promise never to lie to me again?) So the newly wed couple will be oucasts from Alethi society since Jasnah is Queen of Alethkhar and Dalinar leads the Radiants. Szeth will have to wrestle with everyone hating on him for being the assassin in white. Even our PoV`s will feel ambivalent about him. He will also have to deal with his inner demons telling him how he caused the death of hundred of thousends of people by killing kings and leaders. He will have to step up and take responsibility like Dalinar did. Or he doesn´t. Behold my grand tinfoil-hat conspiracy. Shallan and Adolin will retreat to Aimia to not be judged anymore by anyone. This sure will solve all problems. Adolin will duell each and every day. Shallan will keep pretending this is allright and ok. This is just an extended honeymoon, right? right? ....Because when you are going to be outcasts, why not enjoy it? Besides there is so much to study here, those Aimians and those creatures.... Szeth will be charged to retrieve them, but he will likewise join team outcast, because he is tired of everyone telling him he is evil. Nightblood gets confused by that talk. He just wants to sip his purple-wine at the beach of Aimia and relax for once.
  2. I think this is a fundamental trait of true Shallan. In the beginning of WoR before she had created any of these personas (Princess Shallan/Veil/Radiant) we see her diving into the ocean just to study the Santhid. Though this part of her has leapt into Princess Shallan. She went together with Adolin to study the whitespine in the zoo as Princess Shallan in WoR. Veil or Radiant don`t seem to have any artistic talent as shown by the mixed sketchbook. All these talents have gone to Princess Shallan. Oh and according to this assessment all good sketches of Kaladin have been made by Princess Shallan or true Shallan....... What did Kaladin and Shallan talk about on the ship in Shadesmar? They were mostly nerding out about stuff, great spren and the like. Her passion in this regard is a fundamental trait of true Shallan which she cannot share with Adolin. In some ways this is the key to her true identity. Choosing between scholarly life and keeping on lying to Jasnah was her entire arc in WoK. Kaladin totally "gets" it and Adolin does not. Shallan is also quite amiable towards Kaladin in this scene, which means we are talking about real Shallan here. It cannot be Veil, because she is not interested in scholarship. If Veil would be, she would have spotted the fishy stuff going on with the children in Kholinar, but she did not. Her recognition of killing her father in this scene ("I remember", p. 933.) confirms that this is real Shallan. As is stands now all Shallan personas have feelings for Kaladin. Princess Shallan does not want to admit it and blames this on Veil, but her stares reveal her ambigious feelings. Veil is completly on team Shalladin. Radiant is pretty emotionless, but she also favors Kaladin. True Shallan... well she certainly has feelings for Adolin and Kaladin. Only two Shallan personas have developed feelings for Adolin. Princess Shallan is infatuated with him and true Shallan, well I do not know actually how far true Shallan`s love for him goes. Did she ever confess to Adolin that she killed her father? As long as she does not do that we will never know if true Shallan has had any contact with Adolin.
  3. Hmmm. The Fused need the sacrifice of a host-soul and mind though to keep on living. I guess the passage can be interpreted both in my way and yours. It would just make so much sense, if Shallan had to sacrifice a tiny part of her soul, if she wants to do this. I mean think about the strategical advantage of ten lightweavers well supplied with stormlight, they could raise 10 armies almost indefintly. The enemy would never know, where the real soildiers are. And yes I know Amarams soildiers were blinded by the thrill. Thats why they couldn`t make out the illusions. But still.
  4. but she is not simply lightwaving. She is combining lightweaving with soulcasting. Those are not simply illusions. It is explicitly stated, that a part of her is dying. Which means a part of her goes to the spiritual realm. She cannot just resurrect them. Instead they are "reborn and she sends them out again", which means she uses a new part of her soul to animate the living illusions. If she could recreate the souls, why is she speaking of them dying, not just vanishing and returning to her? Dying implies going away forever, leaving the physical and cognitive realm.
  5. The "illusions" are made up of Shallans soul and are dying by the thousands. Thus always a little part of her sould dies. Edit: it is even clearer here
  6. One quick question, has anyone talked about Shallan losing a decent portion of her soul in the battle in the end? How much of her soul did she loose? a quarter, a third, even half? The thing is her behaviour in the end does not make sense from the perspective of her arc. Her feelings both for Kaladin and Adolin intesify on the ship to Thaylen. The hints on both side get bigger (leering onto Kaladin and more, the dialogue with Adolin). No developement rejecting Kaladin takes place. I think this can be fixed. Dalinar also healed the wounds in his soul by being exposed to the Honorblade. But I think it will take Shallan some time to do that.
  7. To you and to those who think like you, you are in good company, go ahead and read the Wit/ Shallan chapter again. (p.787.) Shallan is actually one of you. But she probably hates herself waaaay more than you ever could. That being said, it is important to note that she is at a pretty dark place right now, like Kaladin just before he fell into the chasms in WoR. Imagine how you would feel about Kaladin, if the book had cut off just then and there. My guess is you wouldn`t really like him. So please withhold your final judgement on Shallan for one or two books until she has pulled herself back together.
  8. I wanted to throw in this little passage after the meeting between Wit and Shallan: Then he rambles a bit about Shallan`s outfit, and Shallan thinks: "Oh, Adolin" .After that Kaladin comes along and we se Shallan only having eyes for him. I think this is significant because in this passage after the meeting with Wit Shallan is arguably the "realest" in all of OB. She is clinging onto Adolin in this chapter physically "relaxing" into him. But Adolin completly misses the emotional state in which Shallan, the real one, is right now. By which I mean she is pretty devasted. Instead he just thinks she`s fine. Worse he thinks she`s basically fine all the time. ("of course"). Still this is not really a decisive pro Shalladin passage. I think Brandon wants to leave real Shallan`s feelings unclear. Instead he leaves us likewise with some pro Shadolin bits. She relaxes into him. This could be read as her finding comfort in the presence of Adolin. Later she thinks to herself "Should I explain?" This refers to her outfit but also could be interpreted as Shallan explaining her emotional state to Adolin. Her just staring at Kaladin is also not a truly decisive argument that she is closer to Kaladin than to Adolin, who is literally holding her right now. So I think, Brandon goes to great length to upholding the ambiguity he has set up in OB regarding Kaladin-Shallan-Adolin. He is not going to destroy that ambiguity by some WoB. Nothing has been decided yet. You nailed it, basically. Though me being a Shalladin shipper think that real Shallan is way closer to Kaladin emotionally than to Adolin.
  9. One big thing to remember is that all of these personas were created to make up for the deficiencies of integrated ("real") Shallan. "Shallan" (I will just call her Princess Shallan) was created because integrated Shallan felt like she could not cope with the needs of Alethi lighteye society. Princess Shallan is a persona perfectly suited for this environment. She exemplifies the social norms pressed on a highborn Alethi woman. This lighteye society does not really value compassion in their women (think about Evi, who is the most compassionate person ever, and how she is treated). So Princess Shallan is not really compassionate. She does not really care about her marriage with Adolin and the bond between them for its own sake. Instead it`s a "celebration of herself". At least the relationship with Adolin is not front and center, where it should be! We also do not see the oaths of the marriage being spoken, which is really odd. Consider also how she treated Bridge Four in WoR, that was pretty snobbish. Now that I think about it, the altruistic drive Veil gets in Kholinar probably stems from her guilty conscience of being self absorbed Princess Shallan. Veil is compensating for this lack of compassion on the side of Princess Shallan. Pattern immediately gets this and calls her out for not genuinly wanting to help people.
  10. This seems to be the common interpretation of the story so far. But what if the place, where the girls comes from, actually refers to Braize Ashyn. This would explain why it is dark all the time there and why there is no stormlight. On Braize Ashyn there is no Stormlight and Honor`s intent was not situated there. So it was both literally dark, because there was no stormlight and metaphorically dark because people had only Odium as a shard, which makes for a pretty dark society. The girl was a human, who travelled from Braize Ashyn to Roshar and somehow brought Stormlight and Honor`s intent with it. This also ties up a different thing. Braize Ashyn was destroyed by surgebinding, which requires Stormlight. Somehow humans on Braize Ashyn must have been able to bind surges there.
  11. I got a theory about Odiums written here on the more immediate secret plans of Odium, you might be interested. So my answer to your questions would be that he wants to escape his prison, rule Roshar with his chosen people the Humans and purge the intent of all other shards, for now. After that he surely will go on conquering other planets and shattering other shards.
  12. So on a different note altogether, I found this little passage of Shallan Ough. So Shallan thinks Adolin likes being around her because she is pretty? This entire relationship seems to be a means to feed Shallan`s ego. Adolin gives her a reason to feel special; Having a prince as boyfriend and being told she is pretty. Everyone interpreted this wedding scene as a sign that she has accepted herself now (or not). But this is Shallan`s wedding. This is a celebration of the bond between husband and wife. This should not be about Shallan herself! Shallan reeally needs to get out off the ego trip. Until she doesn`t do that... well a newly born baby would not be helpful.
  13. So this makes my point even stronger, doesn`t it? Through the new technological advances the role of "normal" combattants is enhanced, while the advantage of the supernatural powers can be diminished. At the end we see a new fabrial that can block shardblades. That is a huge deal. And again if we go only according to conventional weapons... then the Parshendi are toast.
  14. So, idk, if this has been already mentioned.... But the one of the first Adolin/ Shallan chapter is entitled: "Set Up to Fail" (p.220). It is the "No Mating" one. This sums up my thoughts on the Adolin/Shallan ship neatly. Edit: It is actually the chapter before the meeting with Mraize and Ialai
  15. This was my least favorite SA book. I think it was due to my feeling that the characters were swept away by the plot rather then them making decisions and shaping their future. In one earlier Kaladin chapter one parshman says: This kind of apllies to all characters. They are compulsed by external factors into doing, what they are doing. Shallan gives in her psychological problems. Kaladin is baffled and just lets King Elokhar be killed. Venli just gets bullied around by Odium. Dalinar is haunted by his past, though he has arguably some agency. Teft gives in his addiction. This is all somewhat subverted in book 5 but not completly. The best arc was Szeth´s, he at least made some good decisions. Ah, and people just dont talk to each other about their problems. They are just swallowing it up and brooding over it. This makes up severe lack of good dialog. So this books will probably make a lot more sense after the sequels have been published. It seems to set up many good things in the future. It`s also still a SA book, it has capital A Awsome worldbuilding and we get to see the answers to so many questions. The Dalinar flashbacks were also insanly well crafted. I gave it an 8/10