Willow

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184 High Prelan

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  1. There's another interesting WoB that tells us something about the 'path to full radianthood' (emphasis mine): Other than the fact that this suggests Skar has also attracted his own spren (?), it seems to say that Lopen, while on the way to Radianthood, is not a full Radiant yet. So a second-oath Windrunner is not considered a full Knight Radiant yet, and Jasnah doesn't accept Shallan at the fourth Oath as a full radiant either. Though Jasnah probably doesn't know exactly how many Truths Shallan has said, and seems to base Shallan's progression on her attainment of Shardblade/Shardplate.
  2. @Calderis, thanks for quoting that text, turns out I misremembered 'knight' instead of Radiant. I just really like the idea of a 'full knight' being one that has all three pieces of the knightly equipment (sword, armor, horse), and the use of knighthood in that WoB just seemed so distinct. On the other hand, by those standards, Jasnah and even Nale aren't full Knights Radiant either :). So maybe that's a bit too strict.
  3. Yes, I completely agree? He wouldn't be able to establish a bond with Maya if he didn't fit the Edgedancer order, and I believe that there is a bond he has with Maya that is different from a simple shardblade and shardbearer one. I just said that I believed that the 'well-adjusted character' mentioned in the WoB referred to Lopen, but that the WoB was still generally about the fact that Adolin was indeed not blocked from Knight Radianthood by some outside factor, in which case Maya talking would have just been a weird fluke (as some theories state - which I do not agree with). But just like Kaladin's, Shallan's and Dalinar's (who also fit their personal orders quite well) struggles we see in the first three books, Adolin now has to live up these oaths to progress. And since Maya is a dead spren, it might be even more difficult for him, and he can run into obstacles the other characters didn't have to deal with. My point was that while Maya and Adolin obviously had a connection for years, the first sign of Maya responding and the bond potentially progressing happened very closely to the end of the book, and that the intensity of this bond seems to me to be most similar to Kaladin and Syl's early bond in WoK. So at what point can we say that Adolin (or any character) is 'well on their way to knighthood?' (not just 'on their way'. Well on their way) Is it when their spren arrives in the physical realm, when characters first talk to their spren, swear the first/second/third/fourth/fifth oath, or as soon as there is some progression? That was one of the discussion points raised in this thread. Is Lopen 'well on his way to Knighthood', or is he already there? Is Adolin 'well on his way' or has he only just made his first steps on the path? That was what I was trying to discuss, because it interests me, and it's a point Jasnah also raises to Shallan in part two of OB.
  4. Ah, but a true knight has to have a sword, armor and a horse, don't they? I think Brandon Sanderson was talking about Lopen when talking about the 'extremely well-adjusted character', by using him as an example, but I also think this definitely means Adolin's not blocked from the Radiant-club by the mechanics of the magic and the story, just because he lacks some vague 'broken-ness' factor. Also, at what point can we describe a character as 'well on his way to Knighthood'? Was Kaladin already well on his way to being a Knight Radiant during the flashbacks when we first saw Syl? In the slave wagons when they first talked? I figure that's a similar point Adolin's at now (though Adolin has the 'dead spren' problem). I personally put Kaladin's 'actively on his way to being a Knight Radiant' point as somewhere near the end of the second book, just before the scene @goody153 describes, because that's when he really starts to move towards a greater ideal (even if it clashes with his immediate emotional reaction), and also when he gets a shardblade, but I don't think that's a universal opinion. Adolin just in the finale of Oathbringer established a first connection with his dead spren (which is already very impressive and more than most people and spren in-world thought was possible) and now it's up to him to go further, help Maya somehow, and eventually become a Knight Radiant.
  5. I found another quote that is interesting: This quote is about jam, but it shows they're not just eating natural sugars and sweeter foods, but that it's possible they're actively adding extra sugar to other meals to make them sweeter.
  6. I think more ordinary food would be grain + vegetable + a sauce that's added later, which is either spicy or sweet. Cooking two completely separate meals would be too much effort for every day. The flashback of Kaladin at Roshone's mansion tells us some interesting things, specifically, that he has eaten pork before. Now, Kaladin's family is pretty high ranked, so I'm guessing most people have to live with just the grain and vegetable combo, with soulcast meat added on occasion. Also, Rock's stew is a spicy seafood stew: So we have at least one recipe for the cookbook. This is unfortunately not the Oathbringer forum, so we're missing out on some information, but I think a lot of the sweetness would come from fruits + sweeter vegetables mixed through the food. But they must have some more savory sweet foods as well, especially for the curries.
  7. I haven't seen it on this site yet, but it was discussed in the Oathbringer reread on TOR a few weeks ago, during chapters 8 and 9. It's very interesting foreshadowing that there's something different about Renarin and Glys.
  8. It is a fascinating subject, mostly because it seems so needlessly complicated sometimes. I'm always surprised by just how strict this food divide seems to be on Roshar. Basically everything that women eat is sweet or sweetened in some way, and to be honest, it sounds rather boring. At least spiciness can be combined with other tastes. On the other hand, it seems only women can eat fruit? It doesn't seem like Vorins have a very balanced diet either way. This might be slightly off-topic, but your comment about the 'bread as a vehicle for food' got me to research the utensils they use to eat all this food. We mostly see men eat with their hands, or a knife. The skewers seem to be more like kabobs, and they'd use bread (and their hands?) to get the food off the skewer. The knife is used to either stab bits of food, which they then bring to their mouth (sounds unsafe), or to cut food into small pieces, which they then use their hands to eat. Men also use spoons to eat stews (and probably soups) Both men and women eat with skewers, but the actual way they use them is different. For women they seem to be used in a way similar to how we use forks. On earth, forks are actually a fascinating and relatively new development in the world of cutlery. Both knives and spoons are ancient, but forks didn't really become generally accepted in Western Europe until the middle of the 18th century. And of course, I think they are still not generally used in most Asian cuisines. I also think Thai (and Indian) cuisine, which you mentioned, are traditionally eaten with your hands. So the way they use utensils is more in line with, say, France after 1800. This is also the period from which Brandon Sanderson drew inspiration for the military coats of the men: So this is separate from the specific food analysis, but it's interesting to see how these different influences were combined to inspire this part of Alethi culture, and also how it fits within the other things we know about this culture.
  9. I think Natanatan was mostly empty around the end of the Epoch Kingdoms, the borders just stayed the same because there was no real reason to change it. And then the Hierocracy and then the Sunmaker happened, and all the borders were redrawn. The area directly to the right of it is called the 'Unclaimed Hills' after all, so we can probably assume that the Crownlands were claimed. I'm now guessing that the Sunmaker claimed the whole of Alethkar, but specified the Crownlands as his main lands. Then when he died, his sons fought for control of Alethkar, but somehow ended up in a stalemate with no one claiming the Eastern Crownlands. That part of my argument is a bit shaky, but the current situation happened somehow. Maybe the quality of the land used to be a lot worse (they didn't claim the hills to the right, because it was too hard to live there), but a highstorm or rockslide changed the land in such a way that the river became more reliable, or with new engineering they were capable of building cities inside protected areas (like the Rift?). I dismissed that theory at first, because it was so unlike the rest of Alethkar, but now that we know more about Gavilar's early reign, it doesn't seem so weird anymore. I didn't understand why Gavilar didn't have the same problems that Elhokar has now, but we have to look at the circumstances. For the entirety of Gavilar's reign, Dalinar (the official highprince of the Kholin lands) was a. on campaign at the borders of the kingdom b. completely drunk. Dalinar's sons were still too young to rule, so Gavilar was able to both be a king without official land, set above the petty squabbles of the highprinces, yet have control over a decent chunk of land at the same time. But there's still the other question, why Gavilar never took the Crownlands as his official lands after the unification. Maybe it was too much combined with the Kholin lands. Maybe he didn't want to bother, since first they were constantly rebelling, and afterwards they were angry at Dalinar and Sadeas. Either way, it seems he was content with managing the Kholin lands. Elhokar then had the bad luck to be a more unsure ruler right after the guy who united the kingdom (the period of the son's reign is the weakest moment in a kingdom's history, according to Dalinar). I think he pretty much continued ruling exactly as Gavilar had, focusing his interest on the management of the Kholin lands besides his duties as a monarch. Only Dalinar managed to get his act together again, and started taking responsibility for his own princedom. I don't think Elhokar would have succeeded at changing the way the Crownlands were ruled, after they got used to this independence, and I don't think he tried. So Elhokar just.. ended up in the situation we see in tWoK.
  10. It's similar to Aladar, but with extra Pettiness.
  11. Paladar is Vamah's cousin, who's used to be the citylord of Revolar up until the events of Oathbringer He's the one that made Moash go 'Nope, I'm out of here. Let's join the enemy.': https://coppermind.net/wiki/Paladar Right, I always thought that as well, but certain things don't match up. I think Gavilar says all the highprinces are descended from one of the 10 sons of the Sunmaker, and with Alethi competitiveness, I don't really see two people of the same line sharing power. Otherwise Dalinar could've used that as precedent for when he was trying to work together with the Highprinces in the Way of Kings. I also considered that maybe the Crownlands were some old traditional area from the Epoch Kingdoms. Kaladin says in the Way of Kings that the Epoch Kingdoms lasted until the Hierocracy, so maybe the Sunmaker defeated the Ardents and then restored the Crownlands as a way of re-establishing historical precedent for a King? However, that really depends on how long the Hierocracy lasted, and there's pretty much no evidence for it, other than the fact that all those events seem to have happened right after each other. There's also this reddit comment from Brandon Sanderson: That could suggest a reason for why the Crownlands could've remained unclaimed until there was a king again, but that doesn't explain Elhokar's lack of lands long after the unification of Alethkar. One other reason I can think of (besides @Isilel 's accurate statement that there is some Early Installment Weirdness in tWoK) is that Dalinar and Sadeas' burning of Rathalas was so horrific that the Crownlands would now never accept the Kholins as rulers. Gavilar, wanting there to be some kind of peace, allowed this one exception, and only in rare cases would some lands revert to the crown.
  12. I imagine it was probably a few sons, a few sons-in-law, a few cousins, etc. Jasnah actually mentions that this happens a lot in chapter 53: However that still leaves the question of why the Eastern Crownlands remained separate (and where the Western Crownlands are). Calderis already mentioned that Adolin would have inherited the Kholin lands, but other than that, Dalinar doesn't actually say the land belonged to Elhokar or Adolin, or to any specific person (emphasis mine): These lands are specifically stated as belonging to the crown. So the disrepancy of 'Elhokar is king, and thus has no lands, because Dalinar (and Adolin after him) rule the Kholin lands' in the Way of Kings and 'The crownlands are under the management of the king' in Oathbringer still exists.
  13. I had to delete like three sentences asking the same question in my first post, because it wasn't really relevant to the rest of my theory, but yeah, I'm very curious about that as well. 'We shall divide this land equally amongst the 10 of us. Except for that lower quarter over there. That will stay empty. We don't like it.' I'm sure there's a reason for it, but I'd really like to know what that reason is. The only map of Alethkar we have that shows the princedoms was made during Gavilar's reign, so unfortunately, we don't know. But there's something I found more interesting when I looked up the map. I called it the Crownlands, but the actual name on the map is the 'Eastern Crownlands'. So.. where's the western Crownlands? The most obvious thing I can imagine is that the Crownlands were originally separated into Western and Eastern halves by the Sea of Spears, but the western half was then absorbed into the other princedoms (Thanadal and Sebarial, mostly). But then why did they leave the rest of the Eastern Crownlands alone? Of course, the further east you go, the stronger the storms are. But we know from Oathbringer that it's a good bit of land. The river doesn't dry up, the land is nice, there's lots of caravans. The people there have a good life. It doesn't sound like it's too harsh to live in, like the Unclaimed Hills are. So the mystery only grows.. Ahh, It seems you have discovered Hoid's true origin story.
  14. During my first read of Oathbringer, I became curious to see what princedom Rathalas belonged to. Tanalan (sr. and jr.) are never described as highprinces (just highlords), yet they are still the leaders of a major city/region in Alethkar. A quick look at the map told me that Rathalas is in the Crownlands, which is the weird 11th region in Alethkar we don't seem to know that much about. I always assumed that, as the name tells us, these lands belong to the crown, aka Elhokar. However, when rereading the Way of Kings afterwards, I started to doubt this. Near the beginning Adolin clearly says that Elhokar doesn't have any land that really belongs to him (WoK, chapter 12). And because of this, he 'takes great interest in the day-to-day management' of the Kholin lands, which causes the other highprinces to think less of Dalinar. This micro-management situation is presented as an interference (at least by Adolin), and something that wouldn't be happening if Elhokar only had other lands to manage for himself. Furthermore, I believe it is said as well that most of Elhokar's income as a king comes from taxation of the use of his Soulcasters. If he rules the Crownlands, he should get income from there as well. This chapter in WoK points to the Crownlands not belonging to Elhokar. Yet, in Oathbringer (chapter 58), Kaladin receives lands from Elhokar, which are in the Crownlands (next to the Deathbend river). The lighteyes who ruled this land died, and the possession reverted back to the crown (Elhokar), and it was his duty to appoint someone to lead these lands. So, my first theory was that the lands in the Crownlands were like miniature princedoms, ruling their own bit of land, and the fact that one line of rulers died out was a rare occurence. One argument for this is that the people of Rathalas 'always had considered themselves a people apart' (chapter 11, Oathbringer). But this seems weird. It's more logical to assume it is ruled in the same way as the rest of Alethkar, especially after the unification. So it would be ruled by a high ranked lighteyes (Sadeas, Vamah, other highprinces), who appoints lower ranked lighteyes to watch over the lands (Amaram, Paladar), who manage even lower ranked lighteyes (Wistiow, Roshone). Kaladin was appointed as a middle-ranked lighteyes who had the task of choosing citylords for the villages in the area. With this information, the fact that Elhokar 'doesn't have any land that was specifically his own' seems odd. If Gavilar combined the Crownlands with the Kholin lands (and the map doesn't suggest that), Kaladin's new land should have reverted back to Dalinar, as the Kholin highprince. They don't, which points to the fact that Elhokar does have lands to call his own. So my main question is where this inconsistency could come from, and if there is any information I've missed about this area in Alethkar that could clear this up.
  15. Another interesting thing about Sylphrena's name is that back when the Way of Kings was first being written, she used to have a different name: These winds, in Greek lore, have specific names. The east wind is usually called Eurus. Of the three other names, the west wind is Zephyrus. But more interestingly, the North and South winds are called Boreas and Notus, respectively. I think it's very likely that Borea (the first mate) and Notum (the captain of Honor's Path) are named for those two winds. Also, I'm still not quite convinced Phendorana is Teft's spren. Spren don't usually travel that far from their Radiant, and it would mean she went to the other side of Roshar to look at Bridge Four, while Teft stayed behind in Urithiru. (Of course, none of that matters when we're just discussing her name. )