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      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
      Part 2 Reactions
      Part 3 Reactions
      Part 4 Reactions
      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.

DimChatz

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  1. @Ailvara Amazing work! I've just begun it and I'm already atounded by the effort you have put. So many information and annotations... Love it!
  2. That's strange... It takes me right to it. November 22 page 18, Theory regarding who is who in the triangle posted by me... Yay! I inspired someone! Do it! Mine is more like a quick Previously on... so, yes, having something longer and more comprehensive will also be good.
  3. Many of the things that I wrote above were not in the feedback I submitted (everything below "Let me know if I missed anything." wasn't in the original and the tone of the original text was different as the paragraphs that are missing here make it much less critical in my opinion), which was done weeks ago and not with the express purpose of capturing the feelings of the community, but mostly my own which happened to match many of that were included here, and which I tried to include as well. Anyway, thanks for the feedback
  4. So here we’re a month later and were to we stand? Well, I thought that I should try to make a summery, in order to assist people that are just now joining us. Some of the stuff mentioned below are re-purposed from the feedback email I send BS though his website, because I think it encapsulates our thoughts and criticisms well enough. The text in it was checked by @PhineasGage so part of the credit goes to them as well, they did an amazing job in helping me get my point across. The main concerns regard the portrayal of dealing with mental issues, the developments as a character of the female protagonist, and the apparent lack of fulfillment of promises made through this book and parts of the previous one. Many of us feel that the resolution of the protagonist's mental issues were not solved in a medically realistic manner and were only used to advance the plot line. Another point of consternation is the apparent need for the female protagonist (Shallan) to be rescued from her struggles by a traditional male archetype (Adolin). This results in him “enabling” her, so to speak, This would be bad enough from a feminist perspective, but the idea of him seeing the “real” Shallan is also incorrect when the kind of discussing dissociative states she has, and that matter is ignored so that another arranged marriage could be brought to conclusion. It is felt this has perhaps been overdone. Lastly, it is felt by many readers that false promises were made through the text regarding the progression of two characters (Kaladin and Shallan) and their relationship, but were not addressed in a satisfying manner no matter where they might have led. As result readers who got invested in said characters are feeling upset, deceived, toyed with and, personally, that their favorite character was mishandled in order to be needlessly used as a plot device. We feel that this diminishes Kaladin’s value in the storyline simply to progress a romantic story line that is written in a very archetypal fashion. Let me know if I missed anything. Moving on, I'll try to list what has been further discussed in this thread. It is felt that motherhood for Shallan, at this point of her life, would not be an advisable course, not only for the child but her as well. Adolin should be further developed as character and face the consequences of his actions, no matter if they were moral or immoral, because Sadeas murder was presented as something that would have ramifications. This wasn't shown in text, but instead it was glossed over. Possibilities for the further development of him included a darker future for him, as it's quite impossible for him to get more perfect than he already is, not to mention that it would be dull. The marriage of those two characters feels quite rushed with a large number of issues that need to be addressed for it to be successful. These matters should be addressed in a believable manner and with an open mind, which means that if they cannot be believably resolved then the marriage should be terminated, as to preserve the interest in the development of both characters. Another interesting plot plot-point that has been brought up is the possible fraying of the bond between Shallan and Pattern due to her self-deception and lack of self-awareness. This is supported by instances in text where Pattern displays odd behavior that could suggest that his mental capacity is diminishing. This is only an attempt to list important points that it is felt that should be addressed and I'd be willing to add more if they are pointed out for me, as I have only listed the ones I remember from my daily perusal of this thread. Here I'll list some links of two popular theories, one of them is my own and the other is that of @DeployParachute. This was an attempt to summerize what has been discussed over the past month. I hope it it is helpful for people that are just joining, as well as a reminder for people that have been here since the beginning. I thought that this would be a good point in time to make this post as the thread is almost 60 pages long and has become a daunting task to sift through.
  5. Wait a minute... What if it goes the other way around and this is a progression moment for Kaladin. "What should have you done except protecting yourself? Well, that sound like a great idea. I have to start doing that instead of constantly berating myself. Protect my self if I can't poretect others, so that in the future I can keep protecting.Yeah, sound like the reasonable and realistic thing to do". I doubt that it's going to be as easy as that, it's Kaladin we're talking about here.
  6. Alright, here are my thoughts/fanfiction on the matter. I cannot see Jasnah and Kaladin together. At least not romantically. What I can see is Jasnah having the need for a king/prince consort for some political reason and Kaladin would be a good candidate for the position. He is fairly well known and popular with the army and he'd be another Radiant in the Kholin family, which will be a plus in Jasnah's opinion. The issue would be convincing Kaladin to go for it. Maybe lure him in with the prospect of protecting the people of the real by assisting or something like that. So, yeah, no romantic love, but something along the lines of what Gavilar and Navani because I get the feeling that neither where starstruck with each other from what Navani says in The Way of Kings. The last part also fits with an another theory of mine, some people will know what I'm referring to As for Syl and Kaladin... No, for all the reasons mentioned above... As for all the other options, I can see them happening or at least being possibilities. Has anyone mentioned Tarah yet? I haven't seen her name popping up yet, but I only did a quick scan so I might have missed something... Archer. I've said before in an other thread with similar content. If Kaladin is to be with someone that hasn't yet been introduced yet, and that someone is a fighter, I suggest an archer. In addition, I'd prefer a Bav (basically Rosharan Scottish in my mind), because I want to see more of them, and while we're at it have her be a Robin Hood type of person, not many forests on Roshar though. I wouldn't mind them not being a Radiant, just really good with archery but very mediocre in melee, neither would I mind them not turning into a Windrunner Squire, I'd actually prefer it that way. Anyway, that covers the fanfiction part of this reply.
  7. So there're a couple of things I'd like to bring attention to, so let's begin. The above passage is from Shallan. So what do you think? Forshadowing and a moment of self-awareness fro Shallan or just a throwaway piece of dialogue. I think and hope that it must be the former that the latter. Let's continue with something more recent. Also from Shallan. So it's suddenly Radiant who wants to spend time around Adolin while Shallan doesn't know what she wants? This whole chapter is basically Shallan struggling with her identity. Now it might be that by the time she makes her choice she has found out what she wants and who she is but from what has been pointed out here I'm not entirely convinced. The Shallan that Adolin "chose" seems to be the one who knows what she wants the least and is struggling with her identity the most. Let me know what you think. Am I reading too much into it and expect too much out of random pieces of dialogue? I don't think so but I thought it'd be good to get someone else to examine these tidbits...
  8. I certainly hope so. Especially the bolded part needs to happen. Yeah, it would be. Honestly bittersweet isn't that bad, although it annoys me at times, as just simple sweetness can be quite dull in my opinion. And who knows what happens after the suicide mission, especially if they reach their 4th ideals...
  9. I, too, want to be believe that it's all intentional but I can't for the life of me stop thinking that BS might have just made a mistake this time and that I should just accept it and move on. Which I simply cannot do, since I'm a fan so I kinda have to point out everything I both like and dislike with the hope that it's fixed. I have more to say on the matter of being a fan but that's neither the point of this thread and I'm afraid that I'll come across as unfair, harsh and presumptuous so I won't publically share my thoughts on this. (PM me if you'd like to hear more). I hope it's just Kaladin trying, and potentialy failing, to handle his feelings as to avoid future jealousy ( a very negative emotion when directed to friends) and misery, but it just might be a quick way to "kill" the plotline in a presumably satisfying manner (says my pessimistic part).
  10. Hello, everyone! I'm glad to be rejoining the discussion. I see that we've confortably passed 1000 replies! Wonderful! So here's what I, currently, take issue with. If the whole triangle what set up as a character development through her choice for Shallan, why enter Kaladin's feelings into it? If she had to make a coice regarding which person was "good" for her and that choice had to always be from the beginning Adolin, because without him she "fades" (I still almost vomit in my mouth when thinking of that line), what was the reasoning for Kaladin to have romantic feelings for her? If he was to vaguely associate her with his brother, so therefore he doesn't really love her (which as a sentiment and phrasing makes absolutely no sense to me), why not have it be like that from the beginning? Why not have something like: "Hey, that lighteyes reminds me somewhat of Tien. I have brotherly feelings toward her and I want to protect her. That's storming strange but I want to protect a lighteyes. Maybe I'm too prejudiced towards them and some are good"? I know that I'm not much of a writter but wouldn't that be a better plot for Kaladin to get through one of his issues? Shallan could still lust after him but in the end she could decide that he isn't for her, since it's just passion from her and he doesn't see her like that. I'd be more that fine with that. Instead what we get is the beginnings of a romantic plot that gets killed within a couple of pages with the weakest of reasoning from all sides and feels like a complete mishandling of all characters involved, while being written in a very archetypal and uninteresting manner ("Without you I fade" *blergh*). Another thing I want to address is that I'm fine with an author intentionally misdirecting me (i.e. the big Mistborn misdirection), but that feels more like deceiving and toying with me. I feel I got teased by promises made with the intention to never be followed through, or at least have a conclusion that hangs together believably which might have disappointed me but I could get behind it in time.
  11. Do they have a reputation or am I missing something? I though Bavland was like this semi-autonomous region in Jah Keved where people speak a Scottish accent of the equilevant of accented Veden, judging by the the Graphic Audio audiobooks. I just think it'd be interesting to have a Bav as I think we haven't seen much of them and they kinda stand out from the rest of the Veden.
  12. I like it. Not sure about the order, but it could lead to some interesting scenes and discussions. Well, what if she's better than him in completely different way of fighting? Like, perhaps, archery while being less skilled in melee combat? I just want to see a Shardbow and how it works. Oh, and as we're getting our wishes out, can she be from Bavland, as well? From what I understand it like Roshar's version of Scotland, which sounds like something I'd want to see..
  13. Well that'd be more like ASK 6. ASK: Episode I: The Phantom Ship ASK: Episode II: Attack of the Ship ASK: Episode III: Revenge of the Ship Bridge Four: An ASK story ASK: Episode IV: A New Ship ASK: Episode V: The Ship strikes back ASK: Episode VI: Return of the Ship ASK: Episode VII: The Ship Awakens ASK: Episode VIII: The Last Ship Please save me from my self!
  14. If we're still picking roles can I be quartermaster? I believe I'd be half-decent at keeping the boooks and supplying the ship. Also, what kind of ship is it? Old sailing with a mast, steamboat, or modern cruiseliner? I vote for old-timey sailing. Also if you put me in a boat give me a big hat and a bucket... I believe you can understand why...
  15. By the Almighty I love this thread so much! But I, uh..., didn't mean anything by it, I was trying to be funny... I should've guessed that somebody had already touched on it on a more serious note. As for the theory, I don't know... haven't considered it much, but maybe I will..